From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Sat Sep 11 14:27:11 1999 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:50:00 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University of Illinois at Chicago (1.8c)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG9907D" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:41:59 0100 Reply-To: mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Ordering _Flying Cups and Saucers_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT People who have been list members on the other lists some months ago remember perhaps that there were problems connected with getting the Tiptree anthology _Flying Cups and Saucers_ (FCaS), especially from outside the US. As FCaS is our BDG selection for December I wanted to add order information to the BDG website. But first I checked Amazon.com again and - surprise, surprise - suddenly they also offer FCaS in paperback for 18$ (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962906689/o/qid=9326 41595/sr=8-1/002-2328642-1834266 ). The hardcopy (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962906697/ref=ed_oe_ h/002-2328642-1834266 ) sells for 45$. Amazon says it takes 4-6 weeks before the book is shipped. I conclude from that that FCaS can be got by list members from their usual channels (not necessarily Amazon, I only used that to check). At least US-residents can also order it from the publisher directly (see Tiptree website http://www.tiptree.org/book/index.html for order form). Publisher's address: Edgewood Press, PO Box 380264, Cambridge, MA 02238 Please let me/the list know if you have difficulties getting FCaS (or any of the other selected books) so that we can react. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:08:32 -0400 Reply-To: releon@syr.edu Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rudy Leon Organization: Syracuse University Subject: Re: Ordering _Flying Cups and Saucers_ In-Reply-To: <199907221142.NAA22960@cserv.usf.uni-kassel.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Just to confirm, my local bookseller is ordering it for me -- I had her check if it was in her catalog, and it is. It looks available to all booksellers -- And maybe your local feminist bookseller could get it even faster than Amazon! Rudy On 22 Jul 99, , Petra Mayerhofer wrote: > People who have been list members on the other lists some > months ago remember perhaps that there were problems > connected with getting the Tiptree anthology _Flying Cups and > Saucers_ (FCaS), especially from outside the US. As FCaS is our > BDG selection for December I wanted to add order information to > the BDG website. > > But first I checked Amazon.com again and - surprise, surprise - > suddenly they also offer FCaS in paperback for 18$ (see > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962906689/o/qid=9326 > 41595/sr=8-1/002-2328642-1834266 ). The hardcopy (see > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962906697/ref=ed_oe_ > h/002-2328642-1834266 ) sells for 45$. Amazon says it takes 4-6 > weeks before the book is shipped. > > I conclude from that that FCaS can be got by list members from > their usual channels (not necessarily Amazon, I only used that to > check). At least US-residents can also order it from the publisher > directly (see Tiptree website http://www.tiptree.org/book/index.html > for order form). Publisher's address: Edgewood Press, PO Box > 380264, Cambridge, MA 02238 > > Please let me/the list know if you have difficulties getting FCaS (or any > of the other selected books) so that we can react. > > Petra > > Petra Mayerhofer > mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de > -- > BDG website > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:13:09 +0000 Reply-To: mystgalaxy@ax.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: FLYING CUPS AND SAUCERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our order has been confirmed for this title, which we expect to have on hand to ship to interested FEMSF members in the very near future. Maryelizabeth -- *********************************************************************** Mysterious Galaxy Local Phone: 858.268.4747 3904 Convoy Street, #107 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com Email: mgbooks@ax.com *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:05:01 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marge Simpson Subject: Terrorists Of Irustan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just finished reading _Terrorists Of Irustan_ by Louise Marley and have to thank whoever it was that nominated it for our reading pleasure....I'm just sorry that it wasn't chosen. Spoiler ahead.... What a wonderful story of a harsh society and the domestic terrorists who discover themselves. I would like to know what others thought of it... I have to say the ending brought tears to my eyes. If I had any problems with this fabulous book, it would be the quick conversion of Zahra's husband Qadir at the end. It was made obvious throughout the story that he did love her, but not that he agreed with or even understood Zahra's ideals. I'm too tired to go into anymore detail, but I hope others have read this book. Ann _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:54:30 0100 Reply-To: mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG suggestions for discussing books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Some time ago we have discussed on this list how books should be discussed during BDG discussions or during list discussions in general. One concern was the presence of authors during discussions. Another was diverse views e.g. of what is feminist, sometimes leading to hostile discussions or even flame wars. At that time Robin Reid posted IMO very helpful suggestions. She kindly condensed them to one page and we have integrated them into the BDG website, see http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/bdg_discussion_guid elines.html The goal of these suggestions is to make book discussions more effective and to spend less time in miscommunications and misunderstandings. Please feel free to comment these suggestions or any other BDG rules at any time. None of the BDG guidelines are cut in stone but instead are open for improvement. The next BDG discussion starts next Monday (2 August). The scheduled book is _Wild Seed_ by Octavia Butler. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:47:16 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Kathleen Friello Subject: Re: BDG suggestions for discussing books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How many times are we going to receive instructions on behavior for this list? Is this really a problem? Wasn't this one of the reasons for establishing this separate list to begin with? Maybe the lack of activity and interest on this list is due at least in part to the repetition of warnings and strictures on appropriate conduct, subject matter, the sensitivity of authors on the list, and guidelines pointing out the best way of engaging in fruitful discussion. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:17:52 0100 Reply-To: mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Re: BDG suggestions for discussing books In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 26 Jul 99, Kathleen Friello wrote: > How many times are we going to receive instructions on behavior for this > list? I am sorry that you see it so negatively. It was meant as a summary of the status of discussion reached some time ago, exactly so that it does not have to be rehashed again and again (it just took us some time to get it together). And, so that if the discussion deteriorates one can point to the suggestions (which are anyway only suggestions not rules). Independent of that, I think a discussion about list policies in general or BDG rules specifically is necessary from time to time, granted not every 2-3 months. > Is this really a problem? Wasn't this one of the reasons for establishing > this separate list to begin with? As far as I see it the only difference between this list and the old one is that off-topic mails are not tolerated here. But the new suggestions refer more to issues like how to handle author's presence during discussion, how to discuss whether a book is feminist, etc. All issues, about which at least some list members have said to be uncomfortable with or which have caused rather hostile discussions in the past. It's true that since this list was created we haven't had any antagonistic discussions but that's no guarantee for the future. > Maybe the lack of activity and interest on this list is due at least in > part > to the repetition of warnings and strictures on appropriate conduct, > subject matter, the sensitivity of authors on the list, and guidelines > pointing out the best way of engaging in fruitful discussion. You mean people are intimitated by that? Maybe. But from my perception there were not so many warnings, strictures and guideline discussions on this list since its creation (with the exception of the discussion early on to which I refered to above). Such things occured more often on the old list in recent months. I think this list is much more quiet than the old one in former times simply because there have been no off-topic spin-offs from book discussions and no flame wars. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:43:41 +1200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Ianthe Subject: Re: DUBIOUS HILLS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone on this list read *THE DUBIOUS HILLS*? I reread it recently, and would love to hear from anyone who has read it, considering the lull that we're having at the moment *grin* or for that matter, *Tam Lin* or *Juniper, Gentian and Rosemary*, which seems to be young adult, but one of those books that can be read at any age or level... I'm one of those people who has a grudge against most modern fantasy, *winces* ...I know, dogmatic of me... but I like this author alot. Jenn. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:15:39 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Lindy Subject: Re: DUBIOUS HILLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ianthe wrote: > Has anyone on this list read *THE DUBIOUS HILLS*? It was a recent read. I like the way Pamela Dean uses language. _The Dubious Hills_ was a novel which I would not have liked to listen to as an Audio Book. . . I kept needing to page back to verify hints or pieces of the puzzle in order to understand the social organization. I enjoyed it well enough. I understand there's a sequel or there will be. I enjoyed more _Tam Lin_ and _JG&R_. I was ignorant of the details of the fairy tale recounted in the former, so I was quite clueless until well over halfway through. I thought Dean brought it off quite well. I liked _JG&R_ with the exception of the ending. It seemed too cramped and hurried at the end. The overall plot was intriguing, though. I'd have liked to know more about Gentian's father and the neighbor before the ending. I've noticed that Dean tends toward a lengthy establishment of characters and situation before "getting down to business" with the the plot. This isn't a criticism: simply an observation. This is different from most long fiction that I've read. Sorry to type generalizations and run, but I'm already late for work. Later, Lindy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:54:12 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Frances Subject: Re: DUBIOUS HILLS Um...WHICH author? Frances > Has anyone on this list read *THE DUBIOUS HILLS*? I reread it recently, and > would love to hear from anyone who has read it, considering the lull that > we're having at the moment > > *grin* > > or for that matter, *Tam Lin* or *Juniper, Gentian and Rosemary*, which > seems to be young adult, but one of those books that can be read at any age > or level... > > I'm one of those people who has a grudge against most modern fantasy, > *winces* ...I know, dogmatic of me... but I like this author alot. > > Jenn. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:27:51 +0000 Reply-To: mystgalaxy@ax.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Louise Marley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is dropping by MG in October! We look forward to a chance to visit with her! Maryelizabeth wondering how many FEMSF authors I can get to the store in one year!! -- *********************************************************************** Mysterious Galaxy Local Phone: 858.268.4747 3904 Convoy Street, #107 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com Email: mgbooks@ax.com *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:02:12 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Kirsten Hoyte Subject: Re(2): [*FSFFU-LIT*] DUBIOUS HILLS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit laorka@MEER.NET writes: >Ianthe wrote: > >> Has anyone on this list read *THE DUBIOUS HILLS*? > >It was a recent read. I like the way Pamela Dean uses language. _The >Dubious >Hills_ was a novel which I would not have liked to listen to as an Audio >Book. >. . I kept needing to page back to verify hints or pieces of the puzzle in >order to understand the social organization. I also liked The Secret Country which is by her & definitely for kids as well as adults, but my favorite kind of kid story. I think its sequel was called The hidden Land or something. Kirsten ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:17:35 +1200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Ianthe Subject: Re: DUBIOUS HILLS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lindy wrote... (and sorry for holding you up from work!) >It was a recent read. I like the way Pamela Dean uses language. >. . I kept needing to page back to verify hints or pieces of the puzzle in >order to understand the social organization. the social organisation was hard to grasp to begin with wasn't it, I like that though, not it being hard to grasp, but having to refer back all the time, get a clearer picture... like a tapestry, you just need more stitches. And Dean's books seem to be very rich like that. All the connections in *Tam Lin* thrilled me, after reading the ballad and re-reading the book, all the little intricacies got me good and proper, I loved it.. things like Her last name being Carter, and Janet in the ballad going to Carterhagh... I love the way she uses literature, The Lady's Not For Burning references were a stroke of genius, considering Thomas and Janet, Thomas and Jennet (in Lady) and Janet and Tam Lin in the Ballad. And I won't even mention how much I love Nick and Robin's former lives... because that would spoil it for those who ahven't read this book... Did you know that she began the book in a medieval setting? but it didn't quite scan, so we got the college novel instead.. It would have been a very different book. As it is, an Urban Fantasy, I like it. The thing about her books that strikes me the most in a grating way, is that they are ambiguous, she leaves you not quite understanding alot of the time, and guessing, and with loose ends all over the place... the second half of Dubious Hills seemed to happen very quickly, too quickly. Like you said, she likes to develop characters, as she did with Arry and Oonan, and then get on to the action, and where the wolves came from in *The Dubious Hills* still goes right over my head... but I love the place! she has this real knack of being able to create -whole- places, even if there are big unexplainable gaps in her stories. Jenn...