From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:28:54 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:51 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0001E" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:03:01 -0800 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Margaret McBride Subject: Re: Jane Yolen In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000111095710.009ba890@mail1.pa.bell-labs.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>One of the things I most enjoyed about SL,SD in terms of the way >>the story itself is told, is the way Yolen has sections for >>"legend", "myth", "story", "ballad" and "history", emphasizing >>the complementary nature of each in gaining an understanding of >>another culture. > >This was lovely. I believe Ursula leGuin does this in one of her books--can >someone else remember what that was? I tried to read it when I was ten and >couldn't make it, though I'd like to now. Was it Always Coming Home? >Anyway, I loved the way all the different forms were contradictory and >focussed on different parts and came up with mutually exclusive endings. Jessie wrote the above and I haven't seen anyone respond so I will. I think LeGuin is marvelous for including/making up myths her imaginary cultures would have. I love the "layering" that adds to my understanding and enjoyment of her books. Eleanor Arnason is another example of a writer who is creating legends that would be written by the cultures in her books. Amy Thomson has some of that idea in Color of Distance also. From Jessie's description, I would guess Left Hand of Darkness would be an example as well as Always Coming Home. In fact LeGuin plays with the myth/legends ideas some even in her Earthsea books. A brief note about the fairy tale images. I just read a book of mystery writers using fairy tale themes and they are much less interesing, complex, thoughtful uses than most of the stories in the Windling & Datlow anthologies. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:36:27 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Nancy Phillips Subject: Re: Jane Yolen In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000131160301.007b1ac0@oregon.uoregon.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" concerning myth as background vs. myth-making: Myth as background is less overtly political and seems to be found in a wide range of SFF, not just feminist SFF. Sometimes it is "stuck on" detail not revealing much (or much unique) about the fictional culture - particularly a problem in standard sword and sorcery stuff, where the one-line summary of the legend may be all that the writer has conceived. Arnason and LeGuin have myths/legends, drawn with enough detail and enough skill, to make the reader believe that members of the fictional culture believed (or at least listened to) the myth. Mythmaking, or religion-making, seems to be a fairly common event in feminist SFF, with the insight that myth (and certainly religion!) can be an artifact with political content. The Riding Women series by Suzy McKee Charnas shows politicized myth-making in progress, most notably by Daya the fem and by the eunuch. Daya initially valorises Alldera and the conquering fems in a manner that Alldera finds unrealistic - an attempt at secular mythmaking. The women's religious/transcendent myths seem to survive relatively unchanged from the days of slavery. The unwarlike eunuch (name?) has the escape/psychosis of the bear visions taken over by the newly enslaved men as a soldier's religion and call to rebellion. The prior men's religion had been portrayed in the early part of the series as recognisably degenerate - Eykar Bek, d'Layo the dream-guide for illegal, non-sanctioned, but popular drug-induced dreams, and the soldier with animal fantasies (name?) all opt out of the Official Myth, and the existence of sanctions against illegal dreaming and the euthanasia/political enemy disposal unit suggest that the Official Myth is not believed by a significant proportion of the male population. Vonarburg's In the Mothers' Land explores what happens to a society when a well-developed religion has a new Scripture uncovered and deemed potentially valid. The classical resurrection story of the (female) divine/human Savior is challenged by the newly discovered Scripture (diary of savior) and accompanying archaeological evidence supporting some but not all aspects of the traditional "life of the savior". The religion theme is as strong as the female dominance/ male scarcity issue, and overlaps. What effect does worshipping a Goddess/female divine/human Savior have on the sheltered men comprising 5 - 10% of the total population and having little contact with women in adulthood? (Reproduction is largely by artificial insemination, the exception being the political leaders, who lead a hieros gamos public ritual and actually bed their men.) The men are depicted as generally extremely pious and consumed by fears of running out of viable semen and being useless to the Goddess. When the men become sterile, they have their own death-and-rebirth men's ceremony to reconcile them to their "useless" condition. Any other suggestions of books/authors exploring intersection of religion/myth and gender? Couldn't find this month's book by Yolen. > Jessie wrote the above and I haven't seen anyone respond so I will. I >think LeGuin is marvelous for including/making up myths her imaginary >cultures would have. I love the "layering" that adds to my understanding >and enjoyment of her books. Eleanor Arnason is another example of a writer >who is creating legends that would be written by the cultures in her books. > Amy Thomson has some of that idea in Color of Distance also. From >Jessie's description, I would guess Left Hand of Darkness would be an >example as well as Always Coming Home. In fact LeGuin plays with the >myth/legends ideas some even in her Earthsea books. > A brief note about the fairy tale images. I just read a book of >mystery writers using fairy tale themes and they are much less interesing, >complex, thoughtful uses than most of the stories in the Windling & Datlow >anthologies. > Nancy Phillips, M.D. phone:(314)577-8782 Pathology fax:(314)268-5120 St. Louis University Hospital email: phillinj@slu.edu 3635 Vista Ave. St. Louis, MO, 63110, USA aacgccaattgctatccccatattctgctaatcccgagcatggac