From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:29:26 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:51 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0002C" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:17:48 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Ines Lassnig Subject: Dawn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer wrote: >After I sent my earlier posting wondering what was so wrong with evolving >toward the Oankali, I realized what I think the answer is. Yes, evolution >is natural, and yes, the changes that the Oankali represent are >"beneficial", at least many of them are. >However, for me it comes down to a question of choice. The humans are not >given the choice of merging or not merging, and on an individual level are >only passive participants. This is precisely what I grappled with in Butler's sf! I found myself wondering why I mentally recoiled so much from her concept of change and I often didn't understand my own feelings - thinking that change must be something we should be striving for after all - until I realised that what Butler often depicts is a coercion into change and not a fair cooperation and exchange. Then again, she makes clear that the humans don't have a choice and would perish if they didn't cooperate. So if Butler's pladoyer for human societal change is meant to be a utopian impulse for her readers, I'm afraid I don't understand it that way. To me all of her fiction is pretty dystopian, offering only a very small glimpse of hope. I see her point, of course, but I can't always agree. And I understand that her position as virtually the only black feminist sf author contributes much to the way her fiction presents itself. Cheers, Ines ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:33:12 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: taking off from DAWN discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Although having a terribly hectic term, I have been following the posts with interest. Butler's work continues to challenge me--and in fact, I'll be including DAWN in my graduate seminar on "Texts and Genders" next fall. Also Bujold's ETHAN OF ATHOS! The question of the Oankali's treatment of humans and people's discussion of it linked up with an essay by a Native American writer I just taught in my 202 class: leads me to point to the extent to which we as a species felt no need to "ask" permission to breed and use other species for food and work. The extent to which African Americans were legally equated with other "property" by law in America has been analyzed, but a related point to that issue is that we treat "animals" as property. What makes us as humans think that another species should have to "morally" be obliged to show us any more compassion or to grant us "rights" than we have shown or given to the species we consume and use in various ways? I don't recall the name of the writer, but I do remember a nifty science fiction novella about a male (time traveller?) who ended up in a parallel time zone in which some "human" children were surgically treated and raised to be used as "cattle" (milk and by implication meat production). He is horrified and tries to save a baby (I think he fails), but when he gets back, he finds himself in an actual cattle barn and finds himself making disturbing equations. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:36:16 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: Re: BDG Dawn/Culture? In-Reply-To: <38A8CAAD.AAC3F535@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I cannot resist: >Rowena asked, "Do the Oankali have a culture?" And I think this is an >astute question-- I haven't read the other books in the series, so I >can only discuss this one. But the Oankali's technology is intimately >connected to their bodies and to chemical biology. They can't or won't >understand the human need to write and keep records. I suppose one >could ask, why should they? Humans themselves destroyed most of those >things in the holocaust, but still, the Oankali don't seem to have any >cultural integrity themselves, they need others to reinvent themselves. What definition of "culture" do you have in mind here? If by culture, one means only that which is written, then a large number of "human" cultures which did not (or do not) have a written form of their language do not count as culture........"writing" as a technology as only been around about 5000 years, from what I read, whereas the scholars seem to think we've been talking for about 100,000 (I read this recently in some discussion of why reading difficulties have to be understood differently than they have been, they've been doing some brain scans/imagine of the human brain while people read to show what areas are "active"). Robin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:14:19 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: BDG: Dawn - Resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to think that I wouldn't be as repulsed by the appearance of the Oankali as Lilith was initially and as many of her fellow humans were; surely all these years of studying the positive power of difference and diversity would pay off in a situation like this, wouldn't it? But what gets me about this story is that I really don't know how I would react and I have to admit that what I like to think I would do might be a long way from the reality of my actions if I were in Lilith's position. Here in my seemingly safe little house, surrounded by other houses filled with other humans, without an Oankali in sight, I can hypothesize that breeding humans with an alien species might bring the best of both species to the fore, and be grateful that human life was given another chance in any form. But in Lilith's position, perhaps I would be just as angry, frightened, and determined to escape. I too found the passage where Nikanj tells Lilith that he has impregnated her troubling and it was the only section of the book in which I turned back the page to re-read. I felt that she was equally disturbed by the fact that it had occurred without her consent and by the fact that the child would not be fully human, but what stunned me most was that this all happened so quickly, that in only a few sentences all of this transpired. But isn't that just the way things do happen - the most definite turning points in our lives are rarely long, drawn-out processes, but are past in an instant and then we are left scrambling to pick up the pieces. What made me most angry however was that he assumed that he knew when Lilith was ready although she herself had not articulated this readiness. And yet I was so relieved when Nikanj was alive after the attack Curt led; I didn't want Lilith to lose him too. Would I really have reacted differently than Lilith? Really, what more can she do? "She would have more information for them this time. And they would have long, healthy lives ahead of them. Perhaps they could find an answer to what the Oankali had done to them. And perhaps the Oankali were not perfect. A few fertile people might slip through and find one another. Perhaps. *Learn and run!* If she were lost, others did not have to be. Humanity did not have to be. She let Nikanj lead her into the dark forest and to one of the concealed dry exits." (264) While I found parts of the story and the questions it raises upsetting, I wasn't left feeling that Butler's view was wholly pessimistic. Had that been my experience, I wouldn't have found myself searching the library stacks for the next volume in the trilogy. :) For me, although the Oankali are ultimately in control, I am comforted by the fact that Lilith continues to look for a way out, to believe, to hope that things will turn out differently than the Oankali intend. I think Susan raises an interesting point: perhaps the Oankali are operating within an alternate power paradigm that we humans can't quite grasp. The one thing I can state with confidence is that I agree with those who have said that Butler's writing is disturbing precisely because it asks more questions than it answers. Nothing is clear cut and while this is frustrating for the reader in us who might prefer a definite answer, it is also, I think, the most wonderful kind of writing as it forces us to search for our own answers and leaves the author's own conclusions somewhat ambiguous. This is the first Butler novel I've read and I'm grateful to have discovered it here amidst such a vibrant and challenging discussion. Thanks to all of you for that! Marcie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:48:46 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: taking off from DAWN discussion In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000215082728.00973630@etsuodt.tamu-commerce.edu > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:33 AM 2/15/2000 -0600, Robin Reid wrote: >What makes us as humans think that another species should have to "morally" >be obliged to show us any more compassion or to grant us "rights" than we >have shown or given to the species we consume and use in various ways? Well, it's fairly important to the story that the Oankali do *not* treat humans as humans have treated other species on Earth. They communicate verbally with their captives and seem genuinely committed to integrating them into their families. They are curious about the various human cultures and find their distinctiveness valuable (it is explained that that is the reason the humans haven't merely been cloned and raised to take the Oankali for granted -- not very convincingly, IMO). They want to breed with the humans. In most ways, they behave as if they are a powerful, odd-looking group of humans, invading in a peaceful, yet inexorable and in some ways horrifying fashion. That's why the captives (and many readers) expect them to respond to moral arguments and talk of rights. More generally, I agree that humans on Earth treat many other species terribly, but I don't believe that this amounts to a collective "species crime" for which all of humanity deserves to suffer. Should vegetarians and animal rights activists be lumped in with trophy hunters and the Beef Promotion Board when the alien judges arrive? What kind of sense does that make? I'm reminded of the comment Lyla made (somewhat jokingly) that since nuclear war had devastated the globe, humans clearly hadn't measured up, so they had no right to complain about how the Oankali treated them. Granted, the anti-Oankali sentiment *was* rather one-note, but it seems more than a little unfair to blame these random people for someone's pushing the Big Red Button in Washington or Moscow. This idea of a species-wide responsibility or guilt is a theme I've encountered in science fiction many times, and it's bothering me more and more. I think it was Hannah Arendt who pointed out that "if all are guilty, none are guilty"; that is, a sense of shared guilt leads to head-shaking and shame, but little direct action to change things. *Dawn* certainly gives one the sense that there is no need to bother, since humanity, without alien intervention, is doomed to fail anyway. Why not just lie back and enjoy the sensory arms? ----- Janice E. Dawley ............. Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Loop Guru -- The Fountains of Paradise "Almost any interesting work of art comes close to saying the opposite of what it really says." -- Gene Wolfe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:07:11 +1300 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jenny Rankine Subject: (BDG) Dawn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Responding to Allyson Shaw's post about Dawn being an allegory of co-optation - I see co-option situations as a consistent theme running through Butler's books. But it's not so much colonial co-optation; rather it's an individual woman in a relationship with a human male or alien who has all the power in the situation and who enables her to survive only at the cost of losing most of her integrity and autonomy. This was part of the Anwanyu/Doro battle in Wild Seed; it surfaced with another female healer character in a later novel of that series; it was in Survivor; and the one where the modern black woman goes back in time to repeatedly save the life of her white slave-owner ancestor (the name of which I've forgotten). To me, Butler seems to be examining strategies women can use in this situation to retain as much integrity as possible; the impact on a person of being in this situation for a long time; and the impact of it on her relationships with others who share her subordinate status. All the women she depicts have or take upon themselves responsiblity for others who are oppressed by the person or people she is fighting - Anwanyu for her children and descendents; the protagonist in Survivor for the missionaries who adopted her; the modern black woman for the other slaves and her other ancestors; and Lilith for other humans. So Butler is examining women's personal battle for autonomy within relationships, which I see as an allegory for heterosexism; and she is also examining the strategies of one representative of a group trying to resist being taken over in some way. I hadn't picked up the Christian references in Dawn, and I have valued the discussion very much. So many people see things I never notice in books and it's neat to see them drawn out. Jenny Rankine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:08:41 PST Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Daniel Krashin Subject: taking off from DAWN discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:33:12 -0600 >From: Robin Reid >Subject: taking off from DAWN discussion > >Although having a terribly hectic term, I have been following the posts >with interest. > >Butler's work continues to challenge me--and in fact, I'll be including >DAWN in my graduate seminar on "Texts and Genders" next fall. >Also Bujold's ETHAN OF ATHOS! > >The question of the Oankali's treatment of humans and people's discussion >of it linked up with an essay by a Native American writer I just taught in >my 202 class: leads me to point to the extent to which we as a species >felt no need to "ask" permission to breed and use other species for food >and work. The extent to which African Americans were legally equated with >other "property" by law in America has been analyzed, but a related point >to that issue is that we treat "animals" as property. > >What makes us as humans think that another species should have to "morally" >be obliged to show us any more compassion or to grant us "rights" than we >have shown or given to the species we consume and use in various ways? > >I don't recall the name of the writer, but I do remember a nifty science >fiction novella about a male (time traveller?) who ended up in a parallel >time zone in which some "human" children were surgically treated and raised >to be used as "cattle" (milk and by implication meat production). He is >horrified and tries to save a baby (I think he fails), but when he gets >back, he finds himself in an actual cattle barn and finds himself making >disturbing equations. Believe it or not, the author was Piers Anthony! Before the Brain Eater got him and turned him into a boring old sexist hack. It was published in one of Ellison's "Dangerous Visions" anthologies, and I don't know where else. I think the title was "In the Barn." I agree with whoever said, though, that the Ooloi-human relationship is not quite that of animal and owner, not quite slave and master, not quite sepoy and sahib. I guess that's appropriate, since the ooloi are weird aliens. It's almost an allegory of modern neo- colonialism: the ooloi value humans for their culture, their genes, even their sexual potential, but don't consider humans their equals and aren't much concerned with our wishes or plans. Dan Krashin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:41:52 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jocelyn & Sheryl Subject: Re: taking off from DAWN discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I agree with whoever said, though, that the Ooloi-human relationship >is not quite that of animal and owner, not quite slave and master, >not quite sepoy and sahib. I guess that's appropriate, since the >ooloi are weird aliens. It's almost an allegory of modern neo- >colonialism: the ooloi value humans for their culture, their genes, >even their sexual potential, but don't consider humans their equals >and aren't much concerned with our wishes or plans. > >Dan Krashin Where is the evidence that the Ooloi don't consider humans their equals? I note many places in the text which show them treating each other exactly as they treat the humans--almost patronizingly, and without much regard for what an individual says he, she, or it really wants. I think we ought to judge them based on the parameters given in the novel. That is, that when they tap into another person (species immaterial), they have information at the molecular level regarding that person's true desires. Of course, I'm not quite willing to grant that my hormones and pheromones are my whole self, but in the novel, this biological knowledge is the basis for Ooloi actions. They are, textually, almost never wrong, either, as far as we can tell (we don't ever find out if our species destroys itself again, of course). Finally, the Ooloi are not a pure species. They are the result of all of their previous eons of "gene trading," and they regard humanity as an excellent source for improving their own species. They don't seem to consider us any more or less worthy of individual respect than they are themselves. It's just not a concept they seem to understand. So I don't think that they see humanity as unequal. It is only our human perceptions which must frame the Ooloi behavior that way. Sheryl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:03:50 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rowena Alberga Subject: Re: BDG Dawn/Culture? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin couldn't resist: > What definition of "culture" do you have in mind here? If by culture, one > means only that which is written, then a large number of "human" cultures > which did not (or do not) have a written form of their language do not > count as culture........"writing" as a technology as only been around about > 5000 years, from what I read, whereas the scholars seem to think we've been > talking for about 100,000 (I read this recently in some discussion of why > reading difficulties have to be understood differently than they have been, > they've been doing some brain scans/imagine of the human brain while people > read to show what areas are "active"). Hi everybody, I am sorry, but I haven't got a definition of culture. I have got a vague idea but that is not restricted to written objects. Maybe I can make it clearer by explaing why I asked the question (do the Oonkali have culture) in the first place. I had the impression that all diferences between Oonkali groups were accounted for by biological differnces. The Oonkali allways seek concensus, they don't have fractions, no difference in world-outlook. Maybe it is strange to propose differences as an essential characteristic of culture, but maybe I could propose a tentative definition: 'the ability to develop in a direction not prescribed by biology'. This would lead to variety, one independent of biology. I hope I made my remark a bit clearer, Rowena ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:25:22 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG: DAWN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Where is the evidence that the Ooloi don't consider humans their equals? I >note many places in the text which show them treating each other exactly as >they treat the humans--almost patronizingly, and without much regard for >what an individual says he, she, or it really wants. I think we ought to >judge them based on the parameters given in the novel. That is, that when >they tap into another person (species immaterial), they have information at >the molecular level regarding that person's true desires. Of course, I'm >not quite willing to grant that my hormones and pheromones are my whole >self, but in the novel, this biological knowledge is the basis for Ooloi >actions. They are, textually, almost never wrong, either, as far as we can >tell (we don't ever find out if our species destroys itself again, of >course). >Finally, the Ooloi are not a pure species. They are the result of all of >their previous eons of "gene trading," and they regard humanity as an >excellent source for improving their own species. They don't seem to >consider us any more or less worthy of individual respect than they are >themselves. It's just not a concept they seem to understand. So I don't >think that they see humanity as unequal. It is only our human perceptions >which must frame the Ooloi behavior that way. >Sheryl I agree completely, Sheryl. This whole human-perception-of the -Oankali-problem is what I've been trying to get at. I've been thinking about how the concept of fairness (or rather the unfairness) of the Oankali has come up in several posts. One thing I appreciate about Butler, even though it makes her books sort of painful, is that she knows that life is not FAIR! The choices we must make to survive are not made under fair circumstances, offered by compassionate equals who respond to our needs, our demands. I think Lilith really makes the best of a bad situation, and the situation could be much worse. At the same time, she never gives up looking for another option for humanity--an option that ironically comes about only through the efforts of her half human/half Oankali son in the later books. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:49:33 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: Next Month's Selection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! First let me reiterate how much I've enjoyed the discussion of Butler's _Dawn_ this month. And next, I have left it too late to request our next book for discussion (Molly Gloss' The Dazzle of Day) via Inter-Library Loan and so I was wondering if someone who is familiar with it could suggest a complementary title which considers the same themes, whether another of Gloss' books or one authored by someone else, which I (and perhaps others in a similar predicament) could read instead. If noone can think of anything that would mesh nicely, I'll content myself with the rest of Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Thanks - Marcie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: Next Month's Selection In-Reply-To: <38B15E8D.E8C81A99@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:49 AM 2/21/00 -0500, Marcie McCauley wrote: >First let me reiterate how much I've enjoyed the discussion of >Butler's _Dawn_ this month. And next, I have left it too late to >request our next book for discussion (Molly Gloss' The Dazzle of >Day) via Inter-Library Loan and so I was wondering if someone >who is familiar with it could suggest a complementary title >which considers the same themes, whether another of Gloss' books >or one authored by someone else, which I (and perhaps others in >a similar predicament) could read instead. If noone can think of >anything that would mesh nicely, I'll content myself with the >rest of Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy, but I thought it wouldn't >hurt to ask. The complexity of consensus decision-making (a major theme of *The Dazzle of Day*) is dealt with in both *A Door Into Ocean* by Joan Slonczewski and the *Starfarers* series by Vonda McIntyre. The McIntyre series is similar also in that it largely takes place in a contained habitat, or generation ship. Unfortunately, all of these books are out of print, so they might be just as hard to get hold of as *The Dazzle of Day*. Note that the discussion of *DoD* doesn't officially begin until March 6th, so you still have some time. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Lo Fidelity Allstars -- How to Operate with a Blown Mind "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:47:19 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG Archives Updated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all -- Just thought I would let you know that the Book Discussion Group archives of past discussions have been updated to January 2000 (*Briar Rose*). The archives can be found at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/bdg_archives.html ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Lo Fidelity Allstars -- How to Operate with a Blown Mind "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: looking for book title MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all I just have to ask for help, since this has been driving me slowly nuts in the back of my mind. I need to have some leads on the title or author of a book that I stupidly read last summer, but can't for the life of me recall. Briefly, a planet is visited by a robot 'woman' judge of humanity. She has 3 human brains to think with, and determine whether the inhabitants are human, or merely homo sapien. This Inquisitor brings along a woman dancer from the 20th century History House and a male actor from an early Modern Asia History House. The planet was recently colonized, does (unknown off-world) have an indigineous (enslaved) population, as well as a shortage of females (which gives them more worth, as marriage is an indication of status). There's also an unknown band of original, rebellious colonizing men. I was a great book, and dealt with the idea of human vs. homo sapien, but I have NO idea what it was or whether it was recommended on this list or I passed it in the library. Please help! Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:50:08 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Frances Subject: Re: looking for book title Six Moon Dance by Sheri Tepper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Misha Bernard" To: Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 14:34 PM Subject: [*FSF-L*] looking for book title Hi all I just have to ask for help, since this has been driving me slowly nuts in the back of my mind. I need to have some leads on the title or author of a book that I stupidly read last summer, but can't for the life of me recall. Briefly, a planet is visited by a robot 'woman' judge of humanity. She has 3 human brains to think with, and determine whether the inhabitants are human, or merely homo sapien. This Inquisitor brings along a woman dancer from the 20th century History House and a male actor from an early Modern Asia History House. The planet was recently colonized, does (unknown off-world) have an indigineous (enslaved) population, as well as a shortage of females (which gives them more worth, as marriage is an indication of status). There's also an unknown band of original, rebellious colonizing men. I was a great book, and dealt with the idea of human vs. homo sapien, but I have NO idea what it was or whether it was recommended on this list or I passed it in the library. Please help! Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:41:58 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Roxanne Korpal Subject: Re: BDG Archives Updated In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000221134719.006a6928@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm sorry I hate to clutter up everyone's mailboxes with this.. some may be interested, however. Is there a webpage with rules/guidelines/info about this listserve? I found the email to be a bit confusing, and figured a webpage would be more understandable/decipherable for me. Also.. how do we suggest authors/books. I'm curious if anyone here has read or heard of Tara K. Harper, an author out of Oregon, US. I personally love her books, but haven't found anyone else who has heard of her beyond what I've shared from my own readings. Again, apologies for the clutter. Won't happen twice. Roxanne http://www.its.ilstu.edu/rmkorpa "I heard the voice of your god, your demon. But the voice was yourself, and all you had to do was stop talking and listen to the silence to find yourself again." - Tsia, in Cataract, by Tara K. Harper On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Janice E. Dawley wrote: > Hi all -- > > Just thought I would let you know that the Book Discussion Group archives > of past discussions have been updated to January 2000 (*Briar Rose*). The > archives can be found at > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/bdg_archives.html > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ > Listening to: Lo Fidelity Allstars -- How to Operate with a Blown Mind > "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; > the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and > servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:50:52 GMT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Jeremy H. Griffith" Organization: Omni Systems, Inc. Subject: Re: looking for book title Comments: cc: mbernar1@OSF1.GMU.EDU In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:34:07 -0500, Misha Bernard wrote: > I just have to ask for help, since this has been driving me slowly >nuts in the back of my mind. > I need to have some leads on the title or author of a book that I >stupidly read last summer, but can't for the life of me recall. > > Briefly, a planet is visited by a robot 'woman' judge of >humanity. Sherri Tepper, _Six Moon Dance_, an excellent book. Tepper outdoes herself with reversals of perception in this one... a Must Read. --Jeremy H. Griffith http://www.omsys.com/jeremy/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: eva piccininni Subject: Re: BDG Archives Updated In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Roxanne Korpal wrote: > Is there a webpage with rules/guidelines/info about this listserve? I > found the email to be a bit confusing, and figured a webpage would be > more understandable/decipherable for me. yep! http://www.exo.net/~lauraq/femsf/listserv/index.html (note that there are two lists, feministsf-lit being restricted to on-topic discussion of feminist SF issues, and feministsf allowing more open discussion and chatting.) > Also.. how do we suggest > authors/books. I'm curious if anyone here has read or heard of Tara K. > Harper, an author out of Oregon, US. I personally love her books, but > haven't found anyone else who has heard of her beyond what I've shared > from my own readings. the books for the scheduled book discussion group (BDG) sessions are chosen every few months. list members may nominate books they're interested in, and then a vote is held to select several for the next round of BDGs. but the list isn't restricted to the scheduled BDGs at all! you can start a discussion any time you like on anything relevant to the list. just fire off an email. i remember about a year ago that there used to be a lot more traffic on feministsf, but it seems to have died down quite a bit, except for the occasional BDG. -> eva ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:58:01 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: Re: looking for book title In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed You'll probably get a bunch of these, but it's _Six Moon Dance_ (or something with MOON and DANCE in title) by Sheri Tepper. At 02:34 PM 2/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all > I just have to ask for help, since this has been driving me slowly >nuts in the back of my mind. > I need to have some leads on the title or author of a book that I >stupidly read last summer, but can't for the life of me recall. > > Briefly, a planet is visited by a robot 'woman' judge of >humanity. She has 3 human brains to think with, and determine whether the >inhabitants are human, or merely homo sapien. This Inquisitor brings >along a woman dancer from the 20th century History House and a male actor >from an early Modern Asia History House. > The planet was recently colonized, does (unknown off-world) have >an indigineous (enslaved) population, as well as a shortage of females >(which gives them more worth, as marriage is an indication of status). > There's also an unknown band of original, rebellious colonizing >men. > I was a great book, and dealt with the idea of human vs. homo >sapien, but I have NO idea what it was or whether it was recommended on >this list or I passed it in the library. Please help! > > > >Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student >mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University > >------------------------- > >-mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- > Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:17:13 -0500 Reply-To: rudileon@earthlink.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rudy Leon Organization: Syracuse University Subject: Good stuff coming out! In-Reply-To: <38B15E8D.E8C81A99@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Footlight MT LightHere's a little blurb about a possible miniseries of Mists Of Avalon (I have to say, my picture of Morgaine is a little different than J. Margulies -- maybe a bit more the Celtic sprtie from Herc:LJ...). Also, Suzette Haden Elgin's _Ozark Trilogy_ is being (re?)released in March. *** Margulies eyes TNT miniseries LOS ANGELES (UltimateTV.com) - "ER's" Julianna Margulies and Anjelica Huston are in talks to co-star in "The Mists of Avalon," a four-hour TNT miniseries described as the legend of King Arthur with a feminine twist. "The Mists of Avalon," based on Marion Zimmer Bradley's best-selling novel, tells the story of Camelot as seen through the eyes of the women who wielded power - behind the throne. According to Daily Variety, Huston is eyeing the role of Viviane, the Lady of the Lake, who tries to preserve the pagan beliefs of Avalon and gain control of Camelot. Margulies would most likely play King Arthur's sister, Morgaine, Viviane's pawn. Production is scheduled to begin in April in Prague. The mini is slated to air in 2001. Rudy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:05:30 EST Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Phoebe Wray Subject: Re: Good stuff coming out! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/0 6:26:53 PM, rudileon@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << Also, Suzette Haden Elgin's _Ozark Trilogy_ is being (re?)released in March. >> THAT is good news. phoebe