From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:28:23 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:53 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0004B" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 19:40:00 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Carol Ann Kerry-Green Subject: Re: Le Guin's Lathe Returns To TV In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks for passing this on. I saw this when I was staying with my cousins in Canada in 1980 (and I can't believe that was 20 years ago!). I don't know if it ever got aired here in the UK, but at least if it's getting released on video this time around, I might stand a chance of seeing it again. Carol Ann Hull, UK > >From SF Wire: > > 3:00pm ET, 5-Apr-00 > > Le Guin's Lathe Returns To TV > > The Lathe of Heaven, the 1980 television movie based on Ursula K. Le > Guin's SF novel of the same name, will return to the airwaves in June in a > digitally remastered version. The film, about a man whose dreams have the > power to reshape reality, will be offered to public television stations as > a 20th anniversary special by WNET in New York City in association with > American Public Television, starting June 1. > > > The rebroadcast will be accompanied by a new, exclusive interview of > Le Guin by Bill Moyers. > > It's the first time the movie--originally produced as part of WNET's > Television Laboratory--has been seen on public television in 20 years, > WNET spokesman Marc Fenton told SCI FI Wire. The movie version of Lathe is > based on Le Guin's best-selling 1971 novel and was called one of the top > 100 greatest works of science fiction by Entertainment Weekly. > > The Lathe of Heaven, which stars Bruce Davison, Kevin Conway and > Margaret Avery, will be made available on home video and DVD in the > fall, Fenton told SCI FI Wire. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 19:57:46 +0000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Angela Barclay Subject: Introduction & Request Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Book Discussion Group Members: I signed onto the *FSF-Lit* Listserve in mid October, 1999 and have since enjoyed being exposed to new writers and ideas and your rich and diverse discussion. In addition to wanting to join the discussion, my hope is to study the creation of and dynamics in your virtual community for my Masters in Communications final project, which is much like a Thesis. I will complete this project next April. I now have theapproval of the List-mistress, the book discussion coordinator and the University of Calgary Ethics Board. I also hope to use my observations of the FSF-Lit and general discussion groups in a presentation I will be giving at the Canadian Communications Association Conference on May 28, 2000. (For more about the CCA see: www.arts.mcgill.ca/gpc/cca/cpf200.html) My research questions are: 1. What prompts members to join this group? 2. Are there barriers to joining and participating in this group? 3. How do members of this female-friendly virtual book discussion group benefit personally and/or professionally? 4. Are there benefits (to yourself . . . other members and agencies . . . society as a whole) that extend beyond the boundaries of the discussion group? Please explain. 5. What constitutes a ³virtual community² and can this group be classified as such? Due to the scholarly nature of the debate I believe it will be important to strive for a balance between keeping your answers to these questions and your comments on the books you¹ve selected anonymous and giving credit for your writing or ^Ìintellectual property¹. I will do so by verifying whether and how you wish to be credited for quotes I use in my project. A bit about me: I have been a junior high school teacher for over ten years and while I love teaching and love the kids I want to ^Ìgraduate¹ to teaching at a higher level. After completing my Masters in Communications I hope to go on and do a PhD and ultimately teach about literature, culture and communications. When I¹m not teaching or researching I can likely be found lounging about with two terribly naughty cats and a book. Some of my favorite authors include Angela Carter, Tanith Lee, Ursula Le Guin and Sherri S. Tepper. Please email me with your answers to the above questions and/or comments or suggestions about the study. Sincerely, Angela Barclay Masters in Communications (MCS) Student University of Calgary Calgary, Alberta barclaya@telusplanet.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:27:48 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jane Fletcher Subject: BDG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has the discussion of Remnant Population been postponed, or have I been losing e-mails? I know my ISP was a bit erratic a short while back. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:27:58 -0500 Reply-To: quiltedpoetry@att.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Liz Bennefeld Subject: Re: BDG In-Reply-To: <003c01bfa324$017295a0$6d43a8c2@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Actually, I was just collecting my thoughts about Remnant Population, so I might as well pop in, here. I find that as I get older, I am becoming more and more like Ofelia (sp?). The inner dialogue that goes along with the outward, "acceptable" responses has become a lot more . . . well, I'm a lot less charitable than I used to be. I'm less inclined to think that I've missed something, and more inclined to think "they" have missed the essentials. Also, I'm not *quite* at the point where I'm regretting the roads not taken due to other people's visions of who I was/ought to be, but if I were in my mid 70s, right now, rather than my mid 50s. I got hung up by other folks' valuations of me, early on. At what point do we start the point of independent self-definition and self-actuation? Elizabeth On 10 Apr 00, at 20:27, Jane Fletcher wrote: > Has the discussion of Remnant Population been postponed, or have I > been losing e-mails? I know my ISP was a bit erratic a short while > back. > > Jane -- E. W. Bennefeld Freelance Writer, Editor, and Academic Style Editor Since 1984 d.b.a. The Written Word QuiltedPoetry@att.net http://TheWrittenWord.home.att.net http://www.PatchworkProse.com "The antithesis of altruism is nihilism." -- E. Wicker ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:51:14 -0400 Reply-To: asaro@sff.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Catherine Asaro Subject: FOX News Special and siigning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone is interested in a signing and a FOX news Special on Science Fiction in the New Millennium, and you will be in the Maryland/Pennsylvania area this week ... On the New Years 2000 weekend, the FOX News Channel ran an interview the New Millennium with seven science fiction and science writers, including Catherine Asaro, Michael Swanwick, and Paul Levinson. On Tuesday, April 10th at 7:30 pm, Borders Bookshop in Philadelphia, PA will have a showing of the interview, following by a live panel with Swanwick, Levinson, and Asaro. After the panel, guests will chat with readers and sign and books. Science Fiction and the New Millennium: Showing of Fox Special Borders Books Catherine Asaro, Paul Levinson, and Michael Swanwick Tuesday, April 10th, 7:30 pm Border's Bookshop 1727 Walnut Street Philadelphia, PA And next ... a group signing for those with a romantic inclination ... Booksigning with Nora Roberts/J.D. Robb Also featuring Catherine Asaro, Carole Bellacera, Heidi Betts, Eileen Charbonneau, Eileen Dreyer, Judy Fitzwater, Ruth Glick writing as Rebecca York, Elizabeth Grayson, Shirley Hailstock, Headlee, Kathryn Jensen, Donna Kauffman Friday, April 14, 2000 - 11:30 to 2:00 Turn the Page Bookstore and Cafe 18 N. Main St. Boonsboro, Maryland 21713 (301) 432-4588 E: TTPAGEBC@aol.com Come and meet the authors, buy books, sample some great coffee and munchies! If you would like directions to the signing, please see my web site at: http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ Under the link for the book signing with Nora Roberts. That's it! -- Best regards Catherine Asaro http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:15:08 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: FSFFU: WisCon roadtrip? Comments: To: femsf list-serv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all apologies for the cross-posting, but I wanted to catch as many folks as possible. I'm going to drive up to WisCon from the DC area (Fairfax, VA) this May, and I wanted to know if anyone was interested in sharing the driving costs (cheaper than airfare!) with me? I plan to do this all in one day (about 15 hours, I estimate). If you're from Baltimore/Washington, that's probably ideal, but it might be possible to share if you're somewhere along the way (or farther south in Virginia... I'm right by I66-I495). please e-mail me (off-list) mbernar1@gmu.edu misha Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:21:54 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jane Fletcher Subject: Re: BDG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I should start by saying that I really enjoyed most of this book. I loved the character of Ofelia and the way the plot unfolded. However I'm afraid my enjoyment was marred by the ending. After high-lighting the crass stereotyping of old women, Elizabeth Moon then gave an even more one-dimensional stereotyping of the academics. In my experience the people most likely to confuse education with intelligence are those who possess neither. Anthropology professors are only too eager to sit down in mud-huts and listen to the tales of grand-mothers. The character of Bilong, in particular, was bordering on offensive to linguists. It is a shame to pick on what is only a minor detail of the plot - had Moon said that the bunch were 3rd rate team, who just happened to be in the area and were diverted when the crisis arose, it might have held together, but not as a hand-picked group of specialists. It is a great shame that it left me, putting down what was otherwise a good book, with a feeling of irritation. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:28:35 +0000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Liz Bennefeld Subject: Re: BDG Greetings! I'm not sure that the linguists came out any worse than the military. Actually, the stereotyping seemed to me to be pretty evenhanded, in that almost everyone's ox got gored. Having run into a substantial number of academics who fit the stereotype, I got a chuckle out of it. They may listen to the grandmothers, but some of them don't actually hear what the grandmother is saying. Our society (contemporary US) runs extensively to stereotyping (marketing is based on it, after all), and I fight with it on a regular basis, being a woman who's spent her entire career either programming or operating computers. Anyway, I enjoyed the stereotyping. Elizabeth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Terri Subject: Re: BDG Voting Reminder In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Everyone! Just a reminder that voting for the next round of BDG group reads will end tomorrow, (Friday, 4/14), at midnight, EST, so if you haven't voted yet please do so. :o) >Please send your votes to me at > >Not to the list! > >Vote for the *FOUR* books of your choice. I will be accepting >votes from now until Friday, April 14th at midnight EST. Winners >will be posted Monday, April 17th. > >After you have sent your four (4) votes you should receive a >confirmation from me within 24 hours. If not, please repost. >We want to make sure everyones' votes are received and >counted. > >Thanks >Terri Wakefield > >> >> >>Nominations: >>-- >>Constance Ash (Editor): Not of Woman Born. Tales of high-tech >>reproduction from the most inventive names in science fiction. >>(March 1999), ISBN: 0451456815, Penguin USA (Paper), Roc >>Books, 272 pages, List Price $6.99 >> >>David Brin: Glory Season. Bantam Books, list price - $6.99, ISBN - >>0553567675 >> >>Deborah Christian: Mainline. Tor Books, 1996. List Price: >>$5.99/$7.99 (Canada), ISBN 0-812-54908-2 >> >>Emma Donoghue: Kissing the Witch : Old Tales in New Skins. >>Collection. Harpercollins Juvenile Books; ISBN: 0064407721 ; List >>Price: $11.00, Paperback - 240 pages, Reprint edition (May 1999). >> >>Katherine Dunn: Geek Love. KNOPF, ALFRED A 1989, 1990 >>(1117367290); Paperback - 355 pages (August 1993) Warner >>Books; ISBN: 0446391301, List price $13.99 >> >>Jewelle Gomez: The Gilda Stories. List Price: $12.95, Paperback - >>256 pages (June 1991), Firebrand Books; ISBN: 093237994X ; >> >>Nicola Griffith and Stephen Pagel (eds.): Bending the Landscape: >>Science Fiction. ISBN: 0879517328, Overlook Press, paperbk >>March 2000, $16.95 (US) list price, 375 pages >> >>Nalo Hopkinson: Midnight Robber. Paperback - 329 pages (March >>2000), Aspect; ISBN: 0446675601, $13.95 >> >>Tanith Lee: Biting the Sun. Mass Market Paperback - 400 pages >>(October 5, 1999), Spectra; ISBN: 0553581309, List Price: $5.99 >> >>Neal Stephenson: The Diamond Age. List Price: $6.99, Paperback - >>499 pages Reprint edition (March 1996), Bantam Books (Mm); >>ISBN: 0553573314 >> >>Sheri S. Tepper: Singer from the Sea. Paperback, ISBN: 0-380- >>79199-4, Avon Science Fiction, March 2000, List price US >>$6.99/CAN $9.99 >> >>Katie Waitman: The Divided. 1999, Ballantine (Del Rey). $12.95 >>PB. ISBN 0345414373. >> >>Peter Watts: Starfish. List Price: $6.99, Mass Market Paperback - >>320 pages (February 2000), Tor Books; ISBN: 0812575857 >>-- >> >>Petra Mayerhofer >>mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de >>-- >>BDG website >>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:54:55 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Remnant Population In-Reply-To: <20000412212836.CVIH9725.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@webmail.worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've read this book last summer so my recollections are a bit hazy. Like others I liked this book because of the unusual character Ofelia. IMO the best part is when Ofelia is alone on the planet and has to adjust, it reminded my of _The Wall_ by Marlen Haushofer (which interestingly Elizabeth Moon cites in a preface), but I think the inner thoughts and development of the woman cut off from all other people was told much better there (in _The Wall_ I mean). The resolution of the book is rather pat, the writing not up to the level I am used to in the BDG books by now. While Ofelia is something special, especially in SF, the characterization of the other (female) characters is crude and stereotypical. I remember two women scientists, one of them is presented as trying to achieve success via her sexual attractiveness, the other (who is more sympathetic) as frustrated. All the scientists are presented as rather dense and the scientific method as unsympathetic and destructive to the subjects under research (in that respect I hazily remember conversations between Ofelia and the 'better' women scientist, unfortunately I've lend the book to somebody and cannot go back to it at the moment). I don't want to say that the scientific method is perfect and should never criticized in fiction and out of it (on the contrary), but in RP it was done in a prejudiced and crude way. These are the impressions I had at the time I've read the book, I am sorry that I cannot back them up with more concrete 'facts' from the book. All this criticism ;-). Nonetheless, I enjoyed the book and regularly recommend it to friends, if with the stated caveats. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:45:12 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Stacey Holbrook Subject: Re: BDG Remnant Population In-Reply-To: <200004141155.NAA21727@cserv.usf.uni-kassel.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Petra Mayerhofer wrote: > I've read this book last summer so my recollections are a bit hazy. > Like others I liked this book because of the unusual character > Ofelia. IMO the best part is when Ofelia is alone on the planet and > has to adjust, I agree. Ofelia's adjustment to living alone and slowly rediscovering her true self is by far the best part of the book. Even though the "aliens" turned out to be interesting, I think I would have liked the book a lot more if the author had left out the alien encounter and the return to the planet by humans. IMHO it would have been more daring to just tell about Ofelia's struggles, her growth as a person, her past, the dangers she faces being alone and without any help if she should become injured etc. It would have been a completely character driven story and I think Ofelia is a strong enough character to carry the whole book. In fact, I think it is Ofelia who saves this book from it's flaws-- if she had been a weaker, less interesting character the book wouldn't have been nearly as good. (snip) > While Ofelia is something special, especially in SF, the > characterization of the other (female) characters is crude and > stereotypical. I love Ofelia. I am so glad to see an older female character in a science fiction novel. The usual age range for a sf/f protagonist is late teens to mid thirties. Occasionally, there is an older male but I can't recall any main character in their late 70's. Elizabeth Moon really captured the reality of being old. She showed the aches and pains and the slowing down but I think she didn't go deep enough into just how fragile a very old person really is. A simple fall, like the one described in the book when the natives first show themselves to the scientists, can be a death sentence. > I remember two women scientists, one of them is presented as trying to > achieve success via her sexual attractiveness, the other (who is more > sympathetic) as frustrated. All the scientists are presented as rather > dense and the scientific method as unsympathetic and destructive to > the subjects under research (snip). I don't want to say that the > scientific method is perfect and should never criticized in fiction > and out of it (on the contrary), but in RP it was done in a prejudiced > and crude way. (snip) This is my main criticism of the book. Ofelia and the alien called Blue Cloak are the only sympathetic characters in the book. The scientists in particular come off as being incompetent boobs who shouldn't be allowed within spitting distance of a working hypothesis. I was especially disappointed in how Ofelia is the only "good" female character in the whole book. > All this criticism ;-). Nonetheless, I enjoyed the book and regularly > recommend it to friends, if with the stated caveats. In spite of my own criticisms, I like this book very much. > Petra > Stacey (ausar@netdoor.com) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:26:28 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jane Fletcher Subject: Re: BDG Remnant Population MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stacey wrote >>>I love Ofelia. I am so glad to see an older female character in a science fiction novel. The usual age range for a sf/f protagonist is late teens to mid thirties. Occasionally, there is an older male but I can't recall any main character in their late 70's.<<< Preparing a reply to this quote has just lead me to an awful discovery - someone has walked off with my copy of Samuel Delany's 'Tales of Neveryona', so I'm afraid I'm going to have to work from memory. 'The tale of Old Venn' has as it's major character an old woman, who is both dynamic and intelligent. And who, in recounting escapades from her life manages to overturn every cliché about intelligent women you ever come across in sci-fi - or any other form of literature. Just when you think you have her pigeon-holed the next page brings a different aspect to her - but IMHO Delany has written the best female characters to be found in sci-fi. Jane (scratching her head while wondering who she lent the book to) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:30:45 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Dave Samuelson Subject: Re: BDG Remnant Population MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, that book features three of the best female characters in all of fsf (Venn, Norema, and Raven) and Delany's overall record with fictional women is pretty good. Jane Fletcher wrote: > Stacey wrote > > >>>I love Ofelia. I am so glad to see an older female character in a science > fiction novel. The usual age range for a sf/f protagonist is late teens to > mid thirties. Occasionally, there is an older male but I can't recall any > main character in their late 70's.<<< > > Preparing a reply to this quote has just lead me to an awful discovery - > someone has walked off with my copy of Samuel Delany's 'Tales of Neveryona', > so I'm afraid I'm going to have to work from memory. > > 'The tale of Old Venn' has as it's major character an old woman, who is both > dynamic and intelligent. And who, in recounting escapades from her life > manages to overturn every cliché about intelligent women you ever come > across in sci-fi - or any other form of literature. Just when you think you > have her pigeon-holed the next page brings a different aspect to her - but > IMHO Delany has written the best female characters to be found in sci-fi. > > Jane (scratching her head while wondering who she lent the book to) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jocelyn & Sheryl Subject: Re: BDG Remnant Population MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hm. I love Venn and I like Norema, but Raven is--to me at least--sort of a cardboard character. She's nowhere near as well-realized as Gorgik, and the major reason I remember her at all is because of the wonderful and hilarious creation myth she tells. Sheryl -----Original Message----- From: Dave Samuelson To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Remnant Population >Actually, that book features three of the best female characters in all of fsf >(Venn, Norema, and Raven) and Delany's overall record with fictional women is >pretty good. > > >Jane Fletcher wrote: > >> Stacey wrote >> >> >>>I love Ofelia. I am so glad to see an older female character in a science >> fiction novel. The usual age range for a sf/f protagonist is late teens to >> mid thirties. Occasionally, there is an older male but I can't recall any >> main character in their late 70's.<<< >> >> Preparing a reply to this quote has just lead me to an awful discovery - >> someone has walked off with my copy of Samuel Delany's 'Tales of Neveryona', >> so I'm afraid I'm going to have to work from memory. >> >> 'The tale of Old Venn' has as it's major character an old woman, who is both >> dynamic and intelligent. And who, in recounting escapades from her life >> manages to overturn every cliché about intelligent women you ever come >> across in sci-fi - or any other form of literature. Just when you think you >> have her pigeon-holed the next page brings a different aspect to her - but >> IMHO Delany has written the best female characters to be found in sci-fi. >> >> Jane (scratching her head while wondering who she lent the book to) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:51:49 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Dave Samuelson Subject: Re: BDG Remnant Population MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I concede the point and Raven is nowhere near the sword and sorcery character I think she was based on: Joanna Russ' Alyx. Jocelyn & Sheryl wrote: > Hm. I love Venn and I like Norema, but Raven is--to me at least--sort of a > cardboard character. She's nowhere near as well-realized as Gorgik, and the > major reason I remember her at all is because of the wonderful and hilarious > creation myth she tells. > > Sheryl > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Samuelson > To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > Date: Friday, April 14, 2000 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Remnant Population > > >Actually, that book features three of the best female characters in all of > fsf > >(Venn, Norema, and Raven) and Delany's overall record with fictional women > is > >pretty good. > > > > > >Jane Fletcher wrote: > > > >> Stacey wrote > >> > >> >>>I love Ofelia. I am so glad to see an older female character in a > science > >> fiction novel. The usual age range for a sf/f protagonist is late teens > to > >> mid thirties. Occasionally, there is an older male but I can't recall any > >> main character in their late 70's.<<< > >> > >> Preparing a reply to this quote has just lead me to an awful discovery - > >> someone has walked off with my copy of Samuel Delany's 'Tales of > Neveryona', > >> so I'm afraid I'm going to have to work from memory. > >> > >> 'The tale of Old Venn' has as it's major character an old woman, who is > both > >> dynamic and intelligent. And who, in recounting escapades from her life > >> manages to overturn every cliché about intelligent women you ever come > >> across in sci-fi - or any other form of literature. Just when you think > you > >> have her pigeon-holed the next page brings a different aspect to her - > but > >> IMHO Delany has written the best female characters to be found in sci-fi. > >> > >> Jane (scratching her head while wondering who she lent the book to)