From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:26:20 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:54 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0005A" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:57:15 +0000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Angela Barclay Subject: The Fiction of Aging Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3040059438_403304_MIME_Part" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3040059438_403304_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was in the stacks rounding up yet another half dozen books to use for my Thesis and discovered alongside Marleen Barr's _Feminist Fabulation: Space/Postmodern Fiction_ and Anne Cranny-Francis' _Feminist Fiction_ Barbara Frey Waxman's _From the Hearth ot the Open Road: A Feminist Study of Aging in Contemporary Literature. (1990/Greenwood Press/New York) Here are some snippets which, as a result of the recent discussion of the need for more aging characters in SF, I thought some group members might be interested in. The concept of "Reifungsromane" was certainly new to me! Waxman asserts that American, Canadian, and British culture's antipathy toward the aging woman's body and persona, as well as their assignment to the lower echelon of the second sex, must be changed. We need to break down Western culture's binary opposition between youth and age, and create a new space where age is no longer an element of identity: an ageless utopia (p.2). She outlines what she refers to as a recent proliferation of texts about aging and calls this genre, in a feminist literary critic's act of naming, the Reifungsroman, or novel of ripening, "opposing its central tenet to the usual notion of deterioration in old age" (p. 2). This she contrasts with the Bildungsroman, its predecessor, which was widely read by a more youthful society. "Feminist theory can examine older women's dual oppressions in order to eliminate them and move society toward a utopian future without the stigma of old age (8) . . ." It can, for example, seek to reject the dichotomization and reconceptulaize youth and age as an undemarcated continuum, which could change the traditional roles assigned elders in our society. Waxman conducted a survey of journalistic essays on aging from the turn of the century to the present in the U.S., Britain and Canada and shows how these nations have moved increasingly toward associating energy, productivity, and integrity with senescence (11)." She also applies her concept of Reifungsromane to the work of Doris Lessing, Alice Adams, Elizabeth Taylor, Barbara Pym, Mary Sarton and Margaret Laurence. Waxman reports that most Reisfungsromane are writen by women, perhaps because older women have been greater victims of ageism in a sexist and youth-oriented culture (12). The female fictions of aging, notes Waxman, are frequently confessional in tone and structure. They are also usually char. by great mobility, recursiveness, or rambling in narrative structure, and passion as well as candor in the disclosures of the protagonists. Reifungsromane include themes of physical and psychic pain; loneliness; alienation from family and youthful society; self-doubt; feelings of uselessness; and grief over the loss of friends, mental acuity, and physical energy. At the same time there is an opening up of life for many of these aging heroines as they literally take to the open road in search of themselves and new roles in life (16). Whether or not they are literally travelling, protagonists usually make an internal journey to their past through dreams and frequent flashbacks, an essential feature of the Reifungsroman narrative structure (17). Usually they become revitalized, newly self-knowledgable, self-confident, and independent before they move forward. If the protagonist of the R. dies at the end of the story, it is commonly after she has grown significantly. " . . . intimate narrations, realistic characterizations, strongly evocative descriptions of the mental and physical baggage carried by the old, and interior views of their treatment by younger characters all blur the boundaries between yound and old, reality and fantasy, belonging and Otherness, integrity and fragmentation, rationality and senility (17)." These works ask that readers immerse themself in the visceral proses of the genre, to assume the body and mind of an older human being and vicariously experience hostility, dependency and fear of dying. Ultimately the fiction of aging encourages positive attitudinal changes in society, disburdens readers of many of the negative expectations about old age. So, it sounds like more feminist sci fi needs to take on characteristics of the Reifungsroman as did Elizabeth Moon's _Remnant Population_ and Molly Gloss's _The Dazzle of Day_. A --MS_Mac_OE_3040059438_403304_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Fiction of Aging I was in the stacks rounding up yet another half dozen books= to use for my Thesis and discovered alongside Marleen Barr's _Feminist Fabu= lation: Space/Postmodern Fiction_ and Anne Cranny-Francis' _Feminist Fiction= _  Barbara Frey Waxman's _From the Hearth ot the Open Road: A Feminist = Study of Aging in Contemporary Literature. (1990/Greenwood Press/New York)
Here are some snippets which, as a result of the recent discussion of the n= eed for more aging characters in SF, I thought some group members might be i= nterested in. The concept of "Reifungsromane" was certainly new to= me!

Waxman asserts that American, Canadian, and British culture's antipathy tow= ard the aging woman's body and persona, as well as their assignment to the l= ower echelon of the second sex, must be changed.  We need to break down= Western culture's binary opposition between youth and age, and create a new= space where age is no longer an element of identity: an ageless utopia (p.2= ).  She outlines what she refers to as a recent proliferation of texts = about aging and calls this genre, in a feminist literary critic's act of nam= ing, the Reifungsroman, or novel of ripening, "opposing its cent= ral tenet to the usual notion of deterioration in old age" (p. 2). &nbs= p;This she contrasts with the Bildungsroman, its predecessor, which w= as widely read by a more youthful society.

"Feminist theory can examine older women's dual oppressions in order t= o eliminate them and move society toward a utopian future without the stigma= of old age (8) . . ."  It can, for example, seek to reject the di= chotomization and reconceptulaize youth and age as an undemarcated continuum= , which could change the traditional roles assigned elders in our society.
Waxman conducted a survey of journalistic essays on aging from the turn of = the century to the present in the U.S., Britain and Canada and shows how the= se nations have moved increasingly toward associating energy, productivity, = and integrity with senescence (11)."  She also applies her concept= of Reifungsromane to the work of Doris Lessing, Alice Adams, Elizabeth Tayl= or, Barbara Pym, Mary Sarton and Margaret Laurence.

Waxman reports that most Reisfungsromane are writen by women, perhaps becau= se older women have been greater victims of ageism in a sexist and youth-ori= ented culture (12).

The female fictions of aging, notes Waxman, are frequently confessional in = tone and structure.  They are also usually char. by great mobility, rec= ursiveness, or rambling in narrative structure, and passion as well as cando= r in the disclosures of the protagonists.  Reifungsromane include theme= s of physical and psychic pain; loneliness; alienation from family and youth= ful society; self-doubt; feelings of uselessness; and grief over the loss of= friends, mental acuity, and physical energy.  At the same time there i= s an opening up of life for many of these aging heroines as they literally t= ake to the open road in search of themselves and new roles in life (16).

Whether or not they are literally travelling, protagonists usually make an = internal journey to their past through dreams and frequent flashbacks, an es= sential feature of the Reifungsroman narrative structure (17).  Usually= they become revitalized, newly self-knowledgable, self-confident, and indep= endent before they move forward. If the protagonist of the R. dies at the en= d of the story, it is commonly after she has grown significantly.

" . . . intimate narrations, realistic characterizations, strongly evo= cative descriptions of the mental and physical baggage carried by the old, a= nd interior views of their treatment by younger characters all blur the boun= daries between yound and old, reality and fantasy, belonging and Otherness, = integrity and fragmentation, rationality and senility (17)."

These works ask that readers immerse themself in the visceral proses of the= genre, to assume the body and mind of an older human being and vicariously = experience hostility, dependency and fear of dying.  Ultimately the fic= tion of aging encourages positive attitudinal changes in society, disburdens= readers of many of the negative expectations about old age.

So, it sounds like more feminist sci fi needs to take on characteristics of= the Reifungsroman as did Elizabeth Moon's _Remnant Population_ and Molly Gl= oss's _The Dazzle of Day_.

A


 --MS_Mac_OE_3040059438_403304_MIME_Part-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:04:39 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Pat Lillquist Subject: Re: aging characters Comments: To: Private_User@health.state.ny.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am in the middle of reading Tepper's "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" in which the main characters are a group of friends from college who are now middleaged. The group runs the gamut from strong lawyer who comes out of retirement to help a poor teenager accused of killing her baby to a well-to-do socialite woman with an eating disorder, to a highly traditional woman in the religious life who runs a profitable oyster farm for the church. In one part, the lawyer's opposition is disappointed that the lawyer is older and on the heavy side since she will be more difficult to discount as a woman because of lack of being physically appealing. The book also includes "bag lady terrorists" who are effective because they can appear out of nowhere and disappear back again. Besides age this book also has alot to say about gender behavior and biology too. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:55:53 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: Re: aging characters In-Reply-To: <200005021504.LAA12518@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed One of Tepper's mysteries series (pseudonum of B.J. Oliphant) has as a protagonist a retired (in sixties) female character--incredible "older" character. While sf might be lagging, there are more and more women protagonists in mysteries who are in forties, fifties, sixties, and beyond. Robin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Frances Subject: Re: aging characters >Robin Ah, Shirley McClintock ! Not really retired even: was running a ranch when the series started, moved to New Mexico to run a guest ranch (just like Tepper) later on--though perhaps that counts as retirement. I know it's perilous to assume a character speaks for the author, but I find this series especially interesting because I feel there's a lot of autobio in Shirley--although I'd contest various of Shirley's political opinions which I speculate to be Tepper's. I love the series and find it *very* re-readable. Frances ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: help with book title/author In-Reply-To: <390A56FE.CDECDF47@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all I hope you can help- these sorts of things drive me nuts. I read a book several years back (hardcover) and thought I recalled that Rebecca Orr wrote it... but of course now I can't figure out what the book was, and she didn't write it. Basically, there's a future US society where people on welfare have their minds used w/o them periodically to pay for their keep (because computer intelligence never did work as well). It also involves environmental terrorism, biological production (large pet grasshoppers), and nanotechnology. All I really remember about this book other than a basic plot, is that it was written by a woman (I _think_ from Virginia/WVa, or the South), and had a pale/white cover. Helpful, I know, but I STILL haven't got into the habit of writing every book down, so that years later when I want to refer to it (as an example of a discriminatory welfare state), I have no idea either of the title or the author! Any leads would be much appreciated. thanks misha Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:05:20 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Freddie Baer Subject: Re: help with book title/author Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I believe the book you're talking about is "Gaia's Toys" by Rebecca Ore. (For informational purposes only: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812539087/qid=957294125/sr=1-1/103-5150375-2787049 An amazingly depressing yet well written dystopia -- I recommend it. FB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: ltimmel@halcyon.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "L. Timmel Duchamp" Subject: Re: help with book title/author MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This book is definitely _Gaia's Toys_-- by Rebecca Ore (you just had the spelling of the name wrong). It was published by TOR in 1995. A wonderful novel. Timmi Duchamp Misha Bernard wrote: > > Hi all > I hope you can help- these sorts of things drive me nuts. I read > a book several years back (hardcover) and thought I recalled that Rebecca > Orr wrote it... but of course now I can't figure out what the book was, > and she didn't write it. > Basically, there's a future US society where people on welfare > have their minds used w/o them periodically to pay for their keep (because > computer intelligence never did work as well). It also involves > environmental terrorism, biological production (large pet grasshoppers), > and nanotechnology. All I really remember about this book other than a > basic plot, is that it was written by a woman (I _think_ from > Virginia/WVa, or the South), and had a pale/white cover. > Helpful, I know, but I STILL haven't got into the habit of writing > every book down, so that years later when I want to refer to it (as an > example of a discriminatory welfare state), I have no idea either of the > title or the author! Any leads would be much appreciated. > thanks > misha > > Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student > mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University > > ------------------------- > > -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- > Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:46:54 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Lyla Miklos Subject: Fwd: It is an alert! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1726956429-957458814=:25488" --0-1726956429-957458814=:25488 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hey gang! Giving you a heads up on this. Don not open any attachments or e-mails called "I Love You". It is a real virus folks and it has screwed up all the computers at my work and across the globe. Lyla Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ --0-1726956429-957458814=:25488 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from [205.250.106.45] by web1201.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 04 May 2000 09:36:15 PDT Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:36:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyla Miklos Subject: It is an alert! To: Queer_Continuum@egroups.com, davet@idirect.com, marka@isgtec.com, durno@interlog.com, JohnWMonro@aol.com, mbpages@interlog.com, mglick@interlog.com, peterhal@pathcom.com, hancock@istar.ca, pjarvis@westburylife.com, hleibow@sears.ca, penneys@netcom.ca, marahs@ix.netcom.com, itan@idirect.com, lisat@idirect.ca, suewitts@astral.magic.ca, carynb@interlog.com, abhushan@idirect.com, drew@almost-painless.com, af271@torfree.net, jmdix@istar.ca, mmoore@pathcom.com, arwen@interport.net, kms@worldnet.ca, paul_valcour@cyberus.ca, alex@worldhouse.com, farb.warren@sympatico.ca, BI087@torfree.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 741 Hey folks! This isn't a potential issue it is one. The "I Love You" virus is for real. It has shut down the entire e-mail system for all of the CHUM/CITY Corp. It has effected computers across the globe. Check out www.cnn.com for more on the story. This one isn't a hoax. On CP24 they reported that it has affected computers at the US Pentagon and the British House of Commons. It seems to only screw up people who use Microsoft Outlook to read and send e-mail. Within our building we have heard reports of mpeg and jpeg files being erased as well. It's a doosey gang. Lyla __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ --0-1726956429-957458814=:25488-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:58:43 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: off-topic Re: [*FSF-L*] Fwd: It is an alert! In-Reply-To: <20000504164654.6259.qmail@web1206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I don't care what kind of viruses are infesting, earths are quaking, or custodies are being disputed -- this list is for discussion of feminist sf ONLY. If the viruses going around somehow sterilized or wiped the hard drives of all of one or the other sex, then maybe thish would qualify. List-Mistress, having had a bad day on the bus & feeling very stern. On Thu, 4 May 2000, Lyla Miklos wrote: > Hey gang! > > Giving you a heads up on this. > Don not open any attachments or e-mails called "I Love > You". It is a real virus folks and it has screwed up > all the computers at my work and across the globe. > > Lyla > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:32:46 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Lyla Miklos Subject: Aurora Awards at TT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > List-Mistress, having had a bad day on the bus & > feeling very stern. I have never actually sent an e-mail about an e-mail virus out any to any list I'm on ever before this, but since this once actually effected me personally and my place of work which in this building alone houses over 900 employees I felt it was serious enough to make others aware of. I hate spam as much as the next person and would never send any old virus warning that came along. There was a B part to my message that never got sent with the rest of my original post for whatever reason that let you all know there is a whole big story about it at www.cnn.com This virus has effected computers in corporations and government agencies across the globe. So just to make sure that this is still a message about SF lit. I currently work for Space: The Imagination Station which is Canada's national sci-fi network. I will be a guest at Toronto Trek this year in my capacity with the SPACE network. As well TT wil be hosting the Aurora Awards. Canada's version of the Hugos. To find out more check out TT's website http://www.tcon.icomm.ca/tt2000/en/ Nalo Hopkinson and many other dynamic women SF authors are nominated. If you are in the area come and check it out! Lyla __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:57:04 -0700 Reply-To: Jo Ann Rangel Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: off-topic Re: [*FSF-L*] Fwd: It is an alert! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit comfort Laura. Hope you get time to de-stress. You had my last tuesday, was very very annoying. Jo Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 18:44:55 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Keith Subject: Re: off-topic Re: [*FSF-L*] Fwd: It is an alert! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ah, but as a computer geek, and as one who's all time favorite movie is 2001, isn't this The Future Is Now? I'm afraid I love this - how long ago was the Internet the Information Highway, how long ago was EMail restricted to a few people in data processing and in universities? Three years? Five years? Now, we can be hit on a worldwide basis, even via hand-cranked telephones in regions without electricity. Too geeky of me, I know, but I am entranced by the fast-forwarding computers have brought about, the "Hasn't this happened *yet*?" conjunction between science fiction and reality. Kathleen (who is too lazy to explore virus writing and would not damage so pristine an environment in this boy-toys manner anyway) On Thu, 4 May 2000, Laura Quilter wrote: > I don't care what kind of viruses are infesting, earths are quaking, or > custodies are being disputed -- this list is for discussion of feminist sf > ONLY. > > If the viruses going around somehow sterilized or wiped the hard drives of > all of one or the other sex, then maybe thish would qualify. > > List-Mistress, having had a bad day on the bus & feeling very stern. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:56:29 -0400 Reply-To: Frances Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Frances Subject: Re: off-topic Re: [*FSF-L*] Fwd: It is an alert! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's all go and read or re-read Melissa Scott's "Night Sky Mine". Frances ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:01:49 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: off-topic Re: [*FSF-L*] Fwd: It is an alert! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Let's all go and read or re-read Melissa Scott's "Night Sky Mine". Oooo... That was a _really_ good one. I might have to take you up on that. I happy to say that from where I'm sitting (in the software industry), we're not close to that yet... -allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:03:35 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: [FSFFU] has anyone read? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi I was hoping that someone might have read Rebecca Ore's trilogy _Human to Human_, _Becoming Human_, and _Being Human_ and could give a little blurb on it. I found the title searching for R. Ore at on-line bookstores, but before I run off and order these three (they're out of print), I wanted to know if they were worth buying used over the internet (which is generally more expensive than browsing local stores, even without shipping). Any comments at all would be useful- right now I'm just going on the titles, which would seem to fit in with my area. thanks misha Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:39:06 -0700 Reply-To: Jo Ann Rangel Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: [FSFFU] has anyone read? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hiya Misha, I have not heard of that trilogy but when it comes to used and out of print titles one of the best places(for price) for me was Powells.com. The other place for in print books that I have saved a buck or two below Amazon and Barnes & Noble online was buy.com. I know sometimes books as recent as 1990s fare end up going out of print a lot of the time unless they are very well known, one thing I try to do is to see if the small publisher has a website where they might have a catalogue with blurbs or I run a search engine on the title and see if any places like Salon.com etc. gave it a review at all. Jo Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Misha Bernard" To: Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 8:03 AM Subject: [*FSF-L*] [FSFFU] has anyone read? > Hi > I was hoping that someone might have read Rebecca Ore's trilogy > _Human to Human_, _Becoming Human_, and _Being Human_ and could give a > little blurb on it. I found the title searching for R. Ore at on-line > bookstores, but before I run off and order these three (they're out of > print), I wanted to know if they were worth buying used over the internet > (which is generally more expensive than browsing local stores, even > without shipping). > Any comments at all would be useful- right now I'm just going on > the titles, which would seem to fit in with my area. > > thanks > misha > > > Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student > mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University > > ------------------------- > > -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- > Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:03:16 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: Re: [FSFFU] has anyone read? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:03 AM 5/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi > I was hoping that someone might have read Rebecca Ore's trilogy >_Human to Human_, _Becoming Human_, and _Being Human_ and could give a >little blurb on it. I found the title searching for R. Ore at on-line >bookstores, but before I run off and order these three (they're out of >print), I wanted to know if they were worth buying used over the internet >(which is generally more expensive than browsing local stores, even >without shipping). > I suspect these are early works by Ore (they're the first ones I remember reading by her)--and i found them immensely fascinating--the protagonist is a young man who ends up as the only human in this alien society (made up of multiple alien species as I recall)--he comes from an intensely poverty-stricken background on Earth--and the whole issues of class being built in appealed to me. Plus, the concept of a trilogy in which the "human" is the minority, the only one in the completely alien society also fascinated me. The trilogy reminded me in some ways of Butler's work (the first of the Xenogenesis trilogy) and in some way of some of C.J. Cherryh's novels: lone or isolated human among aliens; a great deal of effort into creating alien societies that aren't just humans with funny looking noses, etc. I taught the first one in an SF class--the students didn't seem to like it as much as they liked Asimov or Heinlein (but then they didn't like the other novels by women either--the class was more than 3/4 men, and the women who signed up weren't sf readers, go figure)--but I thought it showed a great deal of promise and I've bought her other books as well. I wouldn't say it was "FEMINIST" in any major way, except it's an interesting take on gender (in contrast to the white males of the Golden AGE SF) and class and minority status.... Robin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:21:41 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Emily Brunson Subject: Re: [FSFFU] has anyone read? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Haven't posted an intro yet, so two birds, I guess. New to the list, avid SF reader/writer, and very much looking forward to discussion! At 11:03 AM 05/05/2000 -0400, Misha Bernard wrote: >Hi > I was hoping that someone might have read Rebecca Ore's trilogy >_Human to Human_, _Becoming Human_, and _Being Human_ and could give a >little blurb on it. I found the title searching for R. Ore at on-line >bookstores, but before I run off and order these three (they're out of >print), I wanted to know if they were worth buying used over the internet >(which is generally more expensive than browsing local stores, even >without shipping). > Any comments at all would be useful- right now I'm just going on >the titles, which would seem to fit in with my area. I own one Ore volume entitled _Becoming Alien_, but haven't seen anything regarding other volumes. Aha -- search shows the Ore books are: _Becoming Alien_, _Being Alien_, and _Human to Human_. I think that's the proper order. I've only read the first volume, but I found it to be an intriguing and often harrowing (and deftly funny) look at the human perception of "alien." The shoe is on the other foot in the volume I read, definitely. In it, a young man discovers an alien spacecraft crashed on the property he shares with his older brother. One alien has survived the crash, a youngster, and Tom tries to nurse it back to health -- unsuccessfully, as it turns out. Eventually the young aliens' relatives come in search of it, and after finding that it has died, require Tom to fulfill a kind of bargain: he will take the young alien's intended place at a kind of interstellar academy, where his "humanity" will be proved. That's a *really* rough synopsis, but it's been some time since I read the novel. I'm not sure that I would call it feminist in nature, but it's eminently readable, if that helps. *grin* (Probably not.) There is a very intense, well-written book that *is* called _Becoming Human_, written by Valerie Freireich, btw. Best, Em ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ janissa@odsy.net janissa@crosswinds.net Sophiebrun@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/1628/fanfic.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:35:39 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: from list-mistress - adding banner Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hey i added a banner to the bottom of the messages to tell people how to get off the list, so maybe this will decrease the confusion when people want to get off. let me know if you have ideas about ways to improve the list mgt .... Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:41:36 -0700 Reply-To: Jo Ann Rangel Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: from list-mistress - adding banner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks good over here. 8) Jo Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Quilter" To: Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:35 AM Subject: [*FSF-L*] from list-mistress - adding banner > hey i added a banner to the bottom of the messages to tell people how to > get off the list, so maybe this will decrease the confusion when people > want to get off. let me know if you have ideas about ways to improve the > list mgt .... > > Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu > ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 > Learning Center Facilities Manager > Exploratorium, San Francisco > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.