From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:25:25 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:55 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0006D" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:33:44 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jessie Stickgold-Sarah Subject: Re: Humility Garden books In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000620220146.00ce7320@krauel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Anybody read these? The author is I believe Felicity Savage, and I think >these were her first books, written before she even turned 21 if I recall >the back cover text. The titles are Humility Garden and Delta City. I >won't put any spoilers in here. Ayup. In fact, I went to high school with her, and the first book was largely in its final form before we graduated. (All her author's bios indicate that she absolutely loathed our high school, but she's been polite enough not to say so to us.) She wrote the next one in college. She's also got another trilogy out a few years ago, probably not easy to find: The War In The Waste, Daemon In The Machine, A Trickster In The Ashes. >sort of a stylized version of gay male sensibilities, and I >also thought several of the gods (Pati, Arity, etc.) came off in the same >way. An emphasis on appearance and style over substance, for example. I >imagined pounding disco music in the clubs in the salt. That's certainly what I though of when I read them. It's been a long time, though, so I can't say more than to agree with you. Her next books are certainly more sophisticated, better-constructed stories; you might like them. Jessie ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:11:21 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sophia Hegner Subject: Dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I've just got back from vacation, and I had the chance to read a lot of great books. Among others, I read _Dragonsdawn_, by Anne McCaffrey, as well as _Dragondrums_. Both were good, and I'm in love with fire-lizards. I'm not sure if I'd really totally qualify these books as feminist, though. Any thoughts? Also, it would be a great help, if someone could send me a list of the Pern books *in order.* I have been unable to find a reliable list that was in chronological order. It seems like _Dragonsdawn_ was the first, but I'm not even sure about that. Thanks, Sophia ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:34:05 +0200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rowena Alberga Subject: Re: Dragons In-Reply-To: <3a.6f4b60f.2687a549@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Sophia, Yes, I remember the Dragonriders series as great fun but with so many titles and a bit confusing chronlogical order. (they didn't strike me as explicitely feminist.) I got the followong list from a website devoted to Pern so I guess it will be correct (http://holodeck.vt1.com/pern) First Pass Dragonsdawn Chronicles of Pern: First Fall Second Pass Dragonseye Sixth Pass Moreta Nerilka's Story Ninth Pass The Masterharper pf Pern Dragonflight Dragonquest Dragonsong Dragonsinger Dragondrums The White Dragon Renegades of Pern All the Weyrs of Pern Dolphins of Pern I guess you need a few more hollidays to read it all. have fun, Rowena ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:59:03 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sophia Hegner Subject: Re: Dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/25/2000 11:35:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rowena_a@DDS.NL writes: > I guess you need a few more hollidays to read it all. I sure will! Thank you, Rowena, for that great list. I had no idea there are so many.... Can't wait to find them and read them all. Of course, now that I'm working again, it may take a while. :) Sophia ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:18:59 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Roxanne Korpal Subject: Re: Dragons In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey, Sophia, I hope you enjoy the books. I've read nearly all of them (if not all) and love the series. I'm not sure about the feminist angle in the books either. McCaffrey is a great fan apparantly of the traditional (and not so traditional) love story. The partnerships in her books are usually stronger than the individual and strong people that make up the partnerships were on their own. I've been visiting alt.fan.pern for a few years, and the books/feminism/etc discussion has occured a few times at least. (minor understatement) feminism at www.m-w.com is defined as the following: 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests I think Anne does not write against the idea that women are equal to men in all areas (or can be) but I think her books demonstrate a marked favoritism to the idea that women and men have different "natural" strengths. (Personally i think she makes a good point in her books, and like her ideas which she portrays). Very often you find in her books a balance in the successful partnerships that exist. Trying to debate this will usually bring up the books and important main female characters in them (think: Lessa and Moreta, a study of contrasts) so I think that if anyone continues this discussion, remember to put "spoiler" in the title for poor Sophia. That or try to stick to ideas and book titles, and not specific names or instances. (I really don't want to predispose new readers such as Sophia one way or the other. I'd rather they come to their own conclusions, then we debate) Anyways, give me an email if you'd like. It's been awhile since I picked up a Dragonrider book, so I may be rusty, but they're my favorites and I love talking about 'em. Rox htt://darkramoth.tripod.com "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Sophia Hegner wrote: > In a message dated 06/25/2000 11:35:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > rowena_a@DDS.NL writes: > > > I guess you need a few more hollidays to read it all. > > I sure will! Thank you, Rowena, for that great list. I had no idea there are > so many.... Can't wait to find them and read them all. Of course, now that > I'm working again, it may take a while. > > :) Sophia ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:33:10 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sophia Hegner Subject: Re: Dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/25/2000 12:20:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rmkorpa@ILSTU.EDU writes: > I think that if anyone continues this discussion, remember > to put "spoiler" in the title for poor Sophia. THANK YOU! I really appreciate this... I hate nothing more than having something spoiled for me in a book I am going to read or a movie I'm planning to see. :) Sophia ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:13:27 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Helen Thompson Subject: Re: Dragons In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > THANK YOU! I really appreciate this... I hate nothing more than having > something spoiled for me in a book I am going to read or a movie I'm planning > to see. > > :) Sophia In the interests of preserving some of the suspense of the series, I strongly suggest you read the ninth pass books first. The dragonsinger trilogy and nerilka's story is more intended as a YA series, whereas the dragonrider series and moreta are more "adult" in nature. Dragonsdawn &c were written as prequels, and as a result, they're jarringly disparate from the original series, and end up being a spoiler for some of it. I really wish McCaffrey would write more in the Crystal Singer series. Killashandra was perhaps the first female protagonist that I strongly identified with in an SFnal setting. I was maybe fifteen. Helen ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:50:05 +1000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Julieanne Subject: Re: Dragons In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:13 25/06/2000 -0400, Helen Thompson wrote: >I really wish McCaffrey would write more in the Crystal Singer >series. Killashandra was perhaps the first female protagonist that I >strongly identified with in an SFnal setting. I was maybe fifteen. I was about the same age when I read the Crystal Singer trilogy and had always remembered a great fondness for Killashandra as a strong female protagonist - but - I recently reread a reprinted edition of all 3 books in one volume, and was disappointed - the classic "falling in love with the first man to give you a good thumping" etc struck a very odd chord with me - after he bashes her, drugs her, ties her up, abducts her across half a planet, & dumps her on a deserted island without food or water, Killashandra swoons with passion and seduces him the first chance she gets - After which the guy quite forcibly takes control of Killashandra's life and she loves every minute of it. Killashandra is still presented as a strong woman, - but also as an immature and silly girl, who needs a strong Macho Man to keep her in line & productive for the Guild. By the end of the 3rd book, I started to grit my teeth, muttering.. " If he smacks her one more time...." Perhaps it was just my surging adolescent hormones in my teenage years focussing my reading on the turgid passionate sex-scenes to the exclusion of all else? Similarly with the 'Talents of Earth' series - the main women characters all start off great - but they are presented as unhappy & unfulfilled by their power & status & respect, until they meet up with Mr Macho, the gorgeous sexy hunk, who then takes his rightful place, often with violence - slapping & smacking her silly irresponsible face back into her proper place. Nonetheless I still find them fun - especially the Pern books which has some clever ideas with the dragons and so on:) But in no way, shape or form, would I ever call any of McCaffrey's works feminist, LOL:) However, at about the same time in my teenage years, I read all 7 books of Jo Clayton's "Diadem from the Stars" sci-fi series - and the character of Aleytys, has remained my most admired strong woman character I have ever read in sci-fi (and yes, I did re-read them years later:) - from the very first book when Aleytys is 15, alone and pregnant, and crossing half a planet on foot - through 6 more books of galactic space-opera, plot twists, action, sex, romance, schemes & dreams, complex relationships with other characters male & female (some of which, Jo Clayton spun off as the main characters in their own books in later years) - to the end book in the final scene when she finally confronts the mother who had abandoned her as a baby on a backward planet. Great stuff, and terrific counterpoint if you ever tire of McCaffrey's raven-haired heroines swooning into the hairy chests of pseudo-rapists with charming grins:) Cheers - Julieanne:) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:58:47 -0700 Reply-To: dianeseverson@ivillage.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Diane Severson Organization: iVillage Free Email (http://fe-mail.ivillage.com:80) Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF-LIT Digest - 23 Jun 2000 to 25 Jun 2000 (#2000-95) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sophia, Helen made a good point - don't start with Dragon's Dawn - well, I guess you haven't. I would recommend the first 2 of the Dragon Rider series, then the DragonSinger series, THEN The White Dragon. Read Moreta next, then Nerilka's Story and then I think you are safe for any of the "prequels" DragonsDawn and then The Chronicles. They aren't all as fantasy based as DragonSinger et al. Some are more SciFi. I enjoy this aspect of the series and I would welcome a discussion of the feminist aspects and of the Pern series in general when you've read more! Enjoy! Diane -- Join the most exciting community of women on the web! iVillage.com's FREE membership gets you private email, your own home page, special discounts and sweepstakes, and dozens of problem-solving tools. http://www.ivillage.com/frame/join_email.html ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:57:33 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Tracey Morsek Subject: Re: Dragons Sophia, While trying to figure out the order of the Pern books for myself, I came across the following statement at the beginning of ALL THE WEYRS OF PERN: "The author respectfully suggests that books in the Pern series be read in the order in which they were published." This would be, I believe, DRAGONFLIGHT DRAGONQUEST THE WHITE DRAGON MORETA NERILKA'S STORY DRAGONS DAWN THE RENEGADES OF PERN ALL THE WEYRS OF PERN THE CHRONICLES OF PERN THE DOLPHINS OF PERN DRAGONSEYE I read them that way... and enjoyed them a lot. In fact, by reading in this order, I may have gotten more of what McCaffrey had to say about history and myth and forgotten technology, since as a reader, I wasn't sure what was forgotten. But no matter what order you use, enjoy! Tracey ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:42:13 +200 Reply-To: hedgepig@cheerful.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: fiona wade <12838322@RGO.SUN.AC.ZA> Organization: Stellenbosch University Subject: Anne McCaffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all - I've been listening with a lot of interest for some time now, but haven't read any of the books up til now. I agree that Anne McCaffrey is not a Feminist Writer, but when I read Dragonflight for the first time, probably around 11, it knocked my socks off. After growing up on Lord of the Rings and Narnia and that kind of fantasy, it was a revelation to have this girl turn out to be incredibly powerful and cool, and the focus of the book. Okay fine, on re-reading it through teenage-hood, I started to pick up on the slushy romance, and fairytale aspects of the book (or 'pseudo-rapist' - hadn't thought of that before!), but there are mush worse ways to be introduced to strong women in fantasy. I guess a lot of women are looking for 'strong' role models who can still get a guy, and be appropriately feminine, so I think these books do fulfill that. Although...does anyone on Pern remember who Moreta was married to? And Menolly (the Dragonsinger trilogy) is remarkable for her stubborn independence in a restrictive (male) environment...and I can't even remember if she ended up With anyone, so it couldn't have been tooooo integral to the plot. I think you can read them less as Feminist Novels than as alternative worlds where other possibilities of in/equality between the sexes (and races) are explored. Like most of alternative world fantasy, the estrangement from our own world makes us realize the blindingly obvious in our own (like the pseudo-rapist idea). Fiona Wade ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:56:06 -0400 Reply-To: feldsipe@erols.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: feldsipe Organization: or Lack Thereof Subject: Severna Park Update! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everybody-- Just a note to let you know I have a new story on Scifi.com called The Cure For Everything. They gave me a good blurb---"...a woman with a rare illness meets a group of remote, indigenous tribespeople who hold the cure for disease, and the fate of the world, in their hands. " http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/ While you're there, check out my website (just up!) by clicking on Severna Park. You get a cute little pop-up menu (with my glamorous photo) and a link. Let me know what you think! Yours, Suze/Severna ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Jo Clayton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ::sigh:: my hero! How I miss her... Wonderful at writing from just about any view point -- male , female, other, human, other, etc. Anyone ever hear about a release date for her final novel from Tor? Maryelizabeth -- Maryelizabeth Hart Publicity Manager ****************************************************************** Mysterious Galaxy Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd., #302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ****************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: Joanne Campbell Tidwell Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Joanne Campbell Tidwell Subject: Re: Anne McCaffrey Comments: To: hedgepig@cheerful.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello all! I've been lurking through much of this discussion, and I've been very interested in everyone's comments. > I agree that Anne McCaffrey is not a Feminist Writer, but when I > read Dragonflight for the first time, probably around 11, it knocked > my socks off. After growing up on Lord of the Rings and Narnia > and that kind of fantasy, it was a revelation to have this girl turn out > to be incredibly powerful and cool, and the focus of the book. > Okay fine, on re-reading it through teenage-hood, I started to pick > up on the slushy romance, and fairytale aspects of the book (or > 'pseudo-rapist' - hadn't thought of that before!), but there are mush > worse ways to be introduced to strong women in fantasy. I guess > a lot of women are looking for 'strong' role models who can still get > a guy, and be appropriately feminine, so I think these books do > fulfill that. Although...does anyone on Pern remember who Moreta > was married to? And Menolly (the Dragonsinger trilogy) is > remarkable for her stubborn independence in a restrictive (male) > environment...and I can't even remember if she ended up With > anyone, so it couldn't have been tooooo integral to the plot. > Anne McCaffrey makes no claims at being a feminist; there's an interview linked to her DelRey site (main publisher) in which she states that she is not. I recently presented a paper on McCaffrey's feminism, and in doing the research, I emailed her directly, also through the DelRey site. She told me that she does not consider herself a feminist "in the true sense of the word as it was defined in the 60s." She likes to look at her characters as interesting people and not specifically as men or women. Moreta wasn't "married" to anyone, but she was Weyrwoman with Sh'gall by virtue of their dragons' mating flight. She fell in love with and had a brief affair with Alessan, the Lord Holder of Ruatha Hold. Marriage isn't really an option for dragonriders, which I think is quite interesting. Menolly eventually ends up married to Sebell, and they have several children, but that's well beyond the scope of the Harper Hall books. She's kind of second-in-command behind Sebell when he takes over as Masterharper. Romance is not the issue at all in Dragonsong and Dragonsinger; Menolly is worried about music. One thing I think is key to the McCaffrey discussion is a realization of when the first Pern books were published. I think McCaffrey is more interested in the role of the outsider overall, and if gender becomes part of that, then so be it, but that's not her focus by any means. Joanne Campbell Tidwell ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:23:31 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Todd Mason Subject: CHICKEN RUN is a surprisingly (or not) feminist fantasy. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" At least to the extent that the driving force and all-'round mastermind of the escape attempts of the various chickens is a confident, intelligent hen named Ginger. Even the advent of a rooster who promises to help doesn't dislodge her primacy, nor minimalize the group efforts of the mostly-hen assembly. Atop all else, the typical Ardman Studio wit and deftness is very much in evidence. Heartily recommended. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:59:02 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Kathleen Friello Subject: Re: CHICKEN RUN is a surprisingly (or not) feminist fantasy. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agree wholeheartedly that this was great fun, with a "woman's touch" (movie joke). To nit-pick pedantically, Ginger (heroine) is the slimmest chick of the flock, next to the engineer, Mac (whose role so confused the Ardman folks themselves, apparently, that she's identified as "he" on their official site where the characters are discussed: see the Hatching of Chicken Run http://www.aardman.com/showcase/chick_fr.html). The fattest hens are the butter-brained Babs and the pushy, nay-saying, high-yield egg-layer Bunty. On the other hand, the vile Mrs. Tweedy is thin as a stick. Also, the hens are refreshingly unmaternal, the eggs are only a commodity they produce to justify staying alive, and baby chicks, when they make an appearance, appear just as an audience for Fowler (elderly rooster) and Mac. "Not a chick flick" is one of the movie's advertising slogans. I think these are the best female characters Nick Park has come up with since "Creature Comforts." ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:42:57 -0400 Reply-To: Amy Harlib Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Amy Harlib Subject: Chicken Run: Hatching the Movie by Brian Sibley Book Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a companion to this delightful movie, there is a book I was very fortunate to receive free as a review copy. Please allow me to share it with you. This review will be posted at a big new website for which I will be a featured SF & F book reviewer: SciFiNow.com which goes live on July 1. Hope to see you all there too! Thank you all! Amy -- Amy Harlib aharlib@worldnet.att.net Chicken Run: Hatching the Movie by Brian Sibley (Harry N. Abrams, Publishers, NY, June 2000, $35, hardcover, ISBN#: 0-8109-4124-4). Brian Sibley, journalist and well-known BBC radio personality is responsible for writing this beautifully packaged, large-format, coffee-table type book about the making of the eagerly-awaited first feature film from Aardman, England's innovative animation studio. It's well nigh impossible to write about this project without succumbing to the lure of horrible puns, but fans of Aardman's popular Academy Award-winning Wallace and Gromit short films will cackle with glee as they fly to their nearest bookstore to shell out the not 'poultry' sum of $35 bucks to find their prize is not chicken feed and worth every penny! Chicken Run: Hatching the Movie, illustrated with hundreds of photos, 2/3 of them in color: production stills; behind-the-scenes shots; portraits of all the major personalities involved plus loads of conceptual sketches and storyboard drawings---is a sort of everything you ever wanted to know about this film but was afraid to ask, for there's plenty of text too. Chicken Run's directors, Nick Park and Peter Lord, the premier doyens of stop-motion animation of three-dimensional puppets, use this painstakingly precise, delicate and slow art-form to create memorable, eccentric characters, swift-paced and wildly inventive plots, and exceedingly amusing situations. Chicken Run, (think of 'Great Escape from Stalag 17' with chickens), is set on the English farm of Mr. and Mrs. Tweedy and is about how a hen named Ginger leads an intrepid band of poultry in repeated escape attempts. Events reach crisis proportions, signaling immanent doom for the flock when the Tweedys acquire a machine that makes chicken pies. Just in the nick of time, an American rooster named Rocky arrives on the scene, a feisty ex-circus performer who seems to be able to fly and is persuaded by Ginger to teach this desirable skill to her fellow prisoners and lead a daring escape. In addition to a summary of Chicken Run's plot, the book offers: a brief history of Aardman Studios; an account of the evolution of the concept of Chicken Run; a revealing look at the modus operandi of the directors and the highly skilled artists in their employ, showing how this extremely ambitious film is made (at the rate of 4 seconds per day per animator). An appendix includes the complete credits. Author Sibley, in clear, concise prose devoid of gushing or over-effusiveness, uses extensive interviews to recount how the movie evolved from an idea doodled in a sketchbook to a fully realized feature, revealing the secrets of the model-making shop, the set-design shop and the animation studios---all this profusely illustrated as mentioned previously. The talented actors who supplied the voices also get their fair share of interviews too in this splendid volume which film buffs, chicken fans, animation enthusiasts and anyone curious about the creative process involved in producing a stop-motion animated movie will treasure. It's the next best thing to being there every day contructing and playing with model chickens for 3 years! ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:02:31 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sophia Hegner Subject: Re: Dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/25/2000 5:13:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, helcat@SFF.NET writes: > I > strongly suggest you read the ninth pass books first. Thanks for the advice! This is immensely helpful. :) Sophia ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:32:30 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sophia Hegner Subject: Re: Dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would just like to thank everyone who has offered a helpful hint as to what order I should read the books in. I appreciate all or your time and consideration, and when I'm more of a Pern expert, I promise to write again to discuss the feminist aspects (or lack thereof)! :) Sophia ************************************************* A man said to the universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the universe "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." By Stephen Crane ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.