From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:21:38 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:57 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0008B" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:24:43 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Re: feminism in pern In-Reply-To: <200008041730.KAA11059@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm a bit late (I've just returned from a 4 week vacation) but I want to add my 2 cents on Anne McCaffrey. I agree with what was said that the respective books have to be seen in context to the way of thinking when they were written. Concerning homosexuality and female riders McCaffrey apparently modified her thinking a bit (as most of us have after all in the last decades). One of the newer Pern novels (Dragonseye/Red Star Rising 1996/7) plays at the second return of the threads (i.e. several centuries before the time of Lessa and Flar). That book mostly focuses on green riders of which at that time a significant part are women and gay men (cannot remember lesbians). As I remember it McCaffrey tried to show homosexuality as normal but it impressed me as a bit awkwardly done. In that novel there's also an older dragon queen rider and a younger weyr leader that have become a pair because their dragons coupled. For most of the book this new couple has a 'problem' to relate to each other because he feels insecure and she hopes that he takes charge. Their problem resolves when he finally does. That was my last Pern novel (I anyway only read it because I was on vacation and desperate for reading material and it was the only thing I could get). On 4 Aug 00, Rudy Leon wrote: > The people of Pern are descended from very modern > Us, with women on board and supposedly of equal status, yet the world > declines to a feudal medievalism, replete with misogyny and the > degradations of women abound. Why does AM make this choice? I think that McCaffrey started the series as a fantasy (with the search for Lessa, the atmosphere of the episode in which Flar & co. look for Lessa is IMO completely different from the rest of the book, later on Lessa is simply a strong woman but where's the special 'force' stressed on in the beginning?). And like many she based her world on medieval times. And with that she had boxed herself into a corner. When she later wrote the book how the dragons were created the outcome was already determined. On 4 Aug 00, Robin Reid wrote: > To be fair, I've heard a paper or two (ICFA I think) that argued that > McCaffrey, in showing what happens to women when the technologically > advanced colonists regress to 'medieval' situations, is making a feminist > argument. Really? But only if one buys that a pre-technological society or a society based on simple technologies means that men contribute the more important parts and thus are the decision-makers. Why should it be so? It would mean that equal rights for both genders are a luxury good to dispense with when the times become harsher/less affluent. On 4 Aug 00, Nina M. Osier wrote: > With that said, though - my generation hasn't proved her wrong. In > 1998 an ice storm took out the entire power grid in my state, > naturally at mid-winter. I didn't see a single female worker among > the crews who reconstructed that grid, setting poles in solid- frozen > ground and replacing 100,000 miles of power lines over a period of > about two weeks. Is it easier for men to do that work than for women, > physically speaking? Sure. That reminded me of a German near-future sf novel (_Yin_ by Akif Pirincci (sp?)). In that book there's a world-wide plague that kills all men (but not the women) within 2 years. According to P.'s scenario that will lead to a complete break-down of modern technology because the women are not skilled in engineering, construction etc. (he especially stresses the oil platforms and so). He even presents actual statistics (several pages within the novel, which I found rather funny) showing that the few female engineers we have tend to work in less crucial areas. I didn't like the novel and read only half of it, not because I couldn't agree with the scenario (I think he has a point although IMO he overstressed it, completely ignoring the experience of the 2 world wars and stressing too much formal education (degrees)) but because of his general misogyny which showed up in the presentation of the female characters. On 4 Aug 00, Robin Reid wrote: > I particularly love her sense of the bonding between rider and dragon in > the Pern series; I LOVE the dragons. I wanted one. I think that's the main fascination of the series: to be elected by another being as special and to bond (the perfect love). At least it worked like this for me. By the way, has anybody read _Rider at the Gate_ by C.J. Cherryh? I've read it 2-3 years ago and it appeared to me like an answer to the Pern series. There's also the telepathic bond, two beings (one human, one 'animal') inescapably drawn to each other and the fact that the rider-horse/dragon pairs are indispensable for the survival of the planet (better: the human colonisation of the planet). But there it ends. In _Rider_ the riders are not respected leaders (knights) but outsiders. Even more importantly, Cherryh marvelously describes how the 'animal' mind influences the human one. The humans have constantly to work against loosing (complete) control, against submitting to the baser ('animal') instincts of their horses. The book is dark where Pern is light and easy. The first chapters were very impressive but with time the reading became dreary IMO because of the constant dialogue between rider and horse (the rider always admonishing the horse like a little child). Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: feminism in pern Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I think that McCaffrey started the series as a fantasy (with the > search for Lessa, the atmosphere of the episode in which Flar & > co. look for Lessa is IMO completely different from the rest of the > book, later on Lessa is simply a strong woman but where's the > special 'force' stressed on in the beginning?). If I recall correctly, a short story preceded the novel. I at least used to have the short story somewhere--I'll see if I can dig it up and compare publication dates. It's been so long since I've read it that I can't recall the story or how it relates/compares to the first novel. > Really? But only if one buys that a pre-technological society or a > society based on simple technologies means that men contribute > the more important parts and thus are the decision-makers. Why > should it be so? I would argue that if men are the best hunters/explorers/foragers (not to say that they are, necessarily), then the women would make better and more stable decision-makers. > I think that's the main fascination of the series: to be elected by > another being as special and to bond (the perfect love). At least it > worked like this for me. Same here. Pax, -allen ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.