From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Thu Jul 12 20:21:48 2001 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:39:59 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0010A" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:39:32 -0800 Reply-To: shander@cdsnet.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sharon Anderson Subject: Re: BDG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to thank all of you who so thoughtfully pointed out that I will not be able to understand Charnas' book because I haven't read the first three, It was so thoughtful of you to point this out AFTER I voted for the book. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Terri Subject: Conquerors Child Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Petra is away for a long weekend, but when she returns we will address this issue. We may have to make CC an "unofficial" side discussion, and have the closest runner up act as the BDG read. It depends on the how list feels about this issue. :o) At least we can learn from our mistakes, and make it a rule that only the first book in a series can be nominated. Terri Question about Conqueror's Child - This is book 4 - How necessary is reading the first 3 in the series? Can this book stand alone or will the experience be less if you haven't? Advice from those who had read this. Thanks. Pat. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:03:35 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Phoebe Wray Subject: Re: Conquerors Child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/00 9:48:06 AM, terriergraphics@CYBERTOURS.COM writes: << We may have to make CC an "unofficial" side discussion, and have the closest runner up act as the BDG read. >> Terri, that seems like a fair solution. After the good discussion on this list about the earlier books in the series, I guess I assumed that everyone had read them. best, phoebe w ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:57:54 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: Re: Conquerors Child In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This does seem like a fair solution, and it is unfortunate that it wasn't made clear that _Conqueror's Child_ benefits from knowing the previous books. However, since _The Slave and the Free_ were already discussed on the BDG, perhaps if enough people still want to read/discuss _CC_, it can be placed last and those who don't have the chance to read the previous books (_The Slave and the Free_ AKA _Walk to the Endof the Earth_ and _Motherlines_, and _The Furies_) can at least read the archived BDG and have some idea of what has happened up to the book. I would actually be interested in knowing what people who _hadn't_ read anything else thought of _Conqueror's Child_... sometimes I've read a later book in a group (though not necessarily as connected a series) before the others and had different impressions- sort of similar to rereading early books after reading the whole series. misha On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Phoebe Wray wrote: > In a message dated 10/2/00 9:48:06 AM, terriergraphics@CYBERTOURS.COM writes: > > << We may have to make CC an "unofficial" side discussion, and have the > closest runner up act as the BDG read. >> > > Terri, that seems like a fair solution. After the good discussion on this > list about the earlier books in the series, I guess I assumed that everyone > had read them. > > best, > phoebe w > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Conqueror's Child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terri writes: "We may have to make CC an "unofficial" side discussion, and have the closest runner up act as the BDG read. It depends on the how list feels about this issue. :o) At least we can learn from our mistakes, and make it a rule that only the first book in a series can be nominated." While limiting nominations to the first book of a series sounds like a reasonable idea, I was reminded of the kinda-recent discussion of Octavia Butler's Dawn, the first book in her Xenogenesis series ... I read just the first book for that discussion and found some of the posts confusing because so many people had read the rest of the series and of course that impacted their views of the first book. How could it not? There were themes that seemed by-the-way in Dawn that became more prominent in the later books and the perception of the Oankali developed throughout; if you had read the whole series and were looking back, it would be impossible to just filter out your reactions to the first book alone and make comments solely on that basis. My reactions to the first book changed once I took the time to read the next two books in the series and, re-reading the messages I had saved from the group's discussion, I felt that I had a better understanding of Dawn as part of a series than I had by reading it alone. I wished that I had read the entire series in time for the discussion instead of a few months later. I haven't read any of the Suzy McKee Charnas books either, although I've faithfully collected them, waiting for that flu-bug to hit or some other good excuse to just dive in and read for days on end, but I would gladly move them up my TBR list for a BDG though I'd be less likely to promptly make room for 1200 pages for a casual drop-in discussion on-list. In this genre, there are always sequels and prequels to sort out and I don't think there's a perfect solution. Talking about the fourth Charnas is going to be hard for those who haven't read the first three, talking about the first alone would be hard for those who have read them. Rather than try to solve it by making a blanket rule, I'd rather see the nominator's opinion on whether s/he thinks it's necessary to read earlier or later books in the series and then decide whether I want to vote for it knowing the amount of reading involved. In this particular instance, I agree with those who have suggested that it be moved to one of the later discussion dates to allow extra reading time for those of us who choose to read the the earlier books rather than have it relegated to a side discussion. I'm excited about the selections this time. I didn't vote because I wasn't able to take part much with the summer books but I think I'll be able to find copies of all of these and can't wait to indulge. Truly, Marcie ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Amy Harlib Subject: What I just read: A Fire Upon the Deep Book Review Comments: To: Science_Fiction_Books@egroups.com, SciFi_Discussion@egroups.com, amazons@egroups.com, bayley@onelist.com, fsf-list@egroups.com, peter_f_hamilton@onelist.com, sffbooks@onelist.com, SpeculativeFiction@egroups.com, WomensFantasySciFi@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just finished this book, this review of which will be posted at these websites for which I review regularly: SF Site, rambles.net and scifinow.com. Thought it would be of interest to this group---you are seeing it first. Thanks for letting me share. Amy aharlib@worldnet.att.net A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge (Tor Books, NY, Feb. 1993, $5.99, mass market paperback, ISBN#: 0-812-51528-5). Now that veteran SF Writer Vernor Vinge's most recent book, 'A Deepness in the Sky' has just won the Hugo Award for best SF novel of the year, this seems to be a good time to re-assess the novel that inspired it, 'A Fire Upon the Deep', also a Hugo winner and a sequel that was written first. That a work of SF and its sequel should both earn such recognition is unusual and attests to the author's skill and intelligence as a writer of richly complex hard SF 'sense-of-wonder' yarns in the grandest style. In 'A fire Upon the Deep', Vinge has created a genuinely new and unique concept of the nature of the galaxy where the laws of physics vary with location, the greatest potential for intelligence lies furthest from the center, at the edges where computer-like superminds far beyond anything possible in a biological brain can be found. Myriads of sentient species have moved physically and intellectually, over an evolutionary time scale measured in billions of years, toward the region on the galactic rim known as The Beyond and The Transcendence where the entities that reach this locale are called Powers. They have attained a kind of god-like state of being, their concerns mostly incomprehensible to lesser beings though occasionally a Power turns its attention back to the rest of the galaxy. When doing so with malign intent they are Perversions, with the potential to do untold damage. In the center of the Milky Way, are the Unthinking Depths with the Slow Zone the next layer out, regions where only simple creatures and technologies can function, the Slowness bordering on The Beyond. When a team of scientists in the Straumli Realm of The Beyond discover and release an ancient Transcendent artifact, they unknowingly unleash an awesome power, The Blight, that destroys thousands of worlds by enslaving all natural and artificial intelligences. From this disaster, a ship escapes with a family of scientists with their two pre-adolescent children, Jefri and his older sister Johanna, aboard (notable examples of juvenile characters in an adult story that are not sickeningly cute or obnoxious)! Their luck changes when they are shipwrecked on a planet in The Slowness, their parents killed and the youngsters are taken captive by particularly fascinating aliens of a medieval-level society locked in a struggle for power. These indigenous beings, four-legged creatures who run in packs, are individually no smarter than dogs or rats, but when they coalesce in packs of four or more, they form self-aware unitary persons of surprising abilities. Because their sharp claws and their spatially separate bodies work together like the tines of a fork, the humans call them Tines. Another ship, escaping from the Blight, seeks to rescue the stranded pair of siblings and recover their ship which contains an esoteric device, a Countermeasure that, if it can be triggered in time, may prevent the destruction of the galaxy caused by the Blight. The crew of would-be saviors include: Pham Nuwen, a vivid, colorful 'enhanced' human of bizarre origins who is also the protagonist of 'A Deepness in the Sky'; Ravna, librarian/researcher and strong, resourceful woman; and the vessel's entrepreneurial owners/operators, Blueshell and Greenstalk, a pair of genuinely charming sentient tree-like entities known as Skroderiders who propel themselves about on individual mind-controlled six-wheeled carts. When the spacecraft of hope arrives at the Tines' world at the climax of the local conflict that also coincides with a critical moment in their pursuit by the forces of the Perversion, the resolution of the three major plot strands of gripping suspense surprises and offers bittersweet satisfaction. 'A Fire Upon the Deep' fully deserves all its accolades: the overall concept is an utterly enthralling tour de force of science-fictional imagination; the aliens are developed with memorable skill and perception; the relentless pace of the story never lags (especially the plight of Johanna and Jefri, thoroughly likable kids ironically separated in the wreck and each one found and nurtured by the Tines representing the two warring factions); not all the major characters survive (refreshing realism); and the clear unadorned prose style conveys vast and strange galactic vistas and intimate emotional interaction with equal ease and sometimes simultaneously! This is science-fiction wonder---intelligent, esthetic, moving, creative---of the highest order and deep enough to set readers on fire for more. 'Deepness in the Sky' awaits! ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:14:17 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Bucci, Elizabeth" Subject: Amy's book review: A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Ving e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a strong « ME TOO! » to Amy's book review of the above-mentioned book. I read it this summer and COULD NOT STOP until it was done. This is a fast read from start to finish : Vinge is a master at foreshadowing and suspense. Each plot line is absolutely fascinating and they all come together at the end, without being sickenly « perfect ». The group-minds idea which is central to the Tines packs is truly original. So is the central idea that the laws of physics are defined by location in the universe. This means that, for example, faster-than-light travel is not possible in the Slowness while in the Beyond, they can travel, say, 60 lightyears per hour (or something like this). Since achieving FTL travel is pratically a prerequisite to a civilisation advancing itself, it means that Slow civilisations are due to die out. Other fascinating conclusions trickle down from this central idea, which contribute to the plot lines in a critical, fascinating manner. This novel is a true masterpiece of science fiction. Since this is a feminist-sf listserve, I'd like to point out how delightfully non-gender-traditional were the characters in this novel. While the novel's themes are not related to gender itself (this is more of a hard-sf novel), I found it wonderful that the characters, especially the female ones, did not fall into the traditional gender roles that are all too common in SF. Joanna, the older sister of the children (16 yrs old?) stranded on the planet Tines is strong, smart and, at one point when she feels threatened, she physically attacks what she thinks are her kidnappers. In fact, she is more aggressive than her younger brother, who is really just a kid (is he 8? 9?), and so much more naïve than Joanna. Then there's Woodcarver, the Tine pack that ends up working closely with Joanna. Woodcarver is a female dominated pack (the packs define their gender in some mysterious way not detailed in the novel, it seems to be a decision made by the pack, or is it majority rules based on the gender of the pack members...whatever) who leads the attack on the rival army. She is a strong leader, smart, intelligent, and has been in a position of authority for some 600 years. Finally there's Ravna, one of the characters on the rescue ship being chased by the Perversion. Although there are 4 crew members on the ship, Ravna emerges as a leader, making some difficult decisions (and over-ruling the male Pham Newen at one important point.) In no cases were these female characters placed in the story for love or sex interest : they are central characters in each plot-line, without overshadowing the male characters. In a similar fashion, the male characters are not cardboard cutouts of macho males either : there is much depth and complexity to each character. This made reading the novel all the more delightful! Goes to show you, it doesn't have be femsf to be « feminist »!!!! This is a true masterpiece on all counts! Now I have to buy the prequel...! --Elisabeth. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Kimberly Latta Subject: Re: BDG Voting In-Reply-To: <200009291250.IAA22662@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The book can be read alone. I hadn't read book 3 for about three years, and did fine, although I might have enjoyed the book more had I recently read book 3. -- Kimberly Latta Saint Louis University In residence until December 31, 2000 at: The Folger Shakespeare Library 201 E. Capitol Street, NE Washington, DC 20003 > From: "Patricia P. Lillquist" > Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:50:44 -0400 > To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Voting > > Question about Conqueror's Child - This is book 4 - How necessary is reading > the first 3 in the series? > Can this book stand alone or will the experience be less if you haven't? > Advice > from those who had read this. Thanks. Pat. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 03:15:09 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: Conquerors Child MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this is a good rule. Amy > At least we can learn from our mistakes, and make it a rule > that only the first book in a series can be nominated. > > Terri > > > > Question about Conqueror's Child - This is book 4 - How necessary is reading > the first 3 in the series? > Can this book stand alone or will the experience be less if you > haven't? Advice > from those who had read this. Thanks. Pat. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: Amy's book review: A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Ving e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you for such a wonderful response to my review! You pinpointed important aspects of the book that I couldn't do in the review because it would have made it too long. A reaction like this is as gratifying to me as any praise and thoughtful commentary is to a writer of fiction. Amy ----- This is a strong « ME TOO! » to Amy's book review of the above-mentioned book. I read it this summer and COULD NOT STOP until it was done. This is a fast read from start to finish : Vinge is a master at foreshadowing and suspense. Each plot line is absolutely fascinating and they all come together at the end, without being sickenly « perfect ». The group-minds idea which is central to the Tines packs is truly original. So is the central idea that the laws of physics are defined by location in the universe. This means that, for example, faster-than-light travel is not possible in the Slowness while in the Beyond, they can travel, say, 60 lightyears per hour (or something like this). Since achieving FTL travel is pratically a prerequisite to a civilisation advancing itself, it means that Slow civilisations are due to die out. Other fascinating conclusions trickle down from this central idea, which contribute to the plot lines in a critical, fascinating manner. This novel is a true masterpiece of science fiction. Since this is a feminist-sf listserve, I'd like to point out how delightfully non-gender-traditional were the characters in this novel. While the novel's themes are not related to gender itself (this is more of a hard-sf novel), I found it wonderful that the characters, especially the female ones, did not fall into the traditional gender roles that are all too common in SF. Joanna, the older sister of the children (16 yrs old?) stranded on the planet Tines is strong, smart and, at one point when she feels threatened, she physically attacks what she thinks are her kidnappers. In fact, she is more aggressive than her younger brother, who is really just a kid (is he 8? 9?), and so much more naïve than Joanna. Then there's Woodcarver, the Tine pack that ends up working closely with Joanna. Woodcarver is a female dominated pack (the packs define their gender in some mysterious way not detailed in the novel, it seems to be a decision made by the pack, or is it majority rules based on the gender of the pack members...whatever) who leads the attack on the rival army. She is a strong leader, smart, intelligent, and has been in a position of authority for some 600 years. Finally there's Ravna, one of the characters on the rescue ship being chased by the Perversion. Although there are 4 crew members on the ship, Ravna emerges as a leader, making some difficult decisions (and over-ruling the male Pham Newen at one important point.) In no cases were these female characters placed in the story for love or sex interest : they are central characters in each plot-line, without overshadowing the male characters. In a similar fashion, the male characters are not cardboard cutouts of macho males either : there is much depth and complexity to each character. This made reading the novel all the more delightful! Goes to show you, it doesn't have be femsf to be « feminist »!!!! This is a true masterpiece on all counts! Now I have to buy the prequel...! --Elisabeth. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:34:00 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: BDG nominations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd suggest this be a recommendation rather than a rule, with the rule being that the nominator offers her opinion about whether the later book can be read without one needing to read the preceding books. My $.02 Maryelizabeth Amy Harlib wrote: > I think this is a good rule. Amy > > > At least we can learn from our mistakes, and make it a rule > > that only the first book in a series can be nominated. > > > > Terri > > > > > > -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:03:09 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Wayne Harde Subject: CFP: Girlpower, FEMSPEC special issue, 01/04/2001 GIRLPOWER---FEMSPEC (Special Issue)---REVISED CALL FOR PAPERS Girl power is power that comes from within. Girl power comes from celebrating femininity in all its complexity. Girl power comes from girls breaking traditional molds and becoming who they want to be, taking control of themselves and extending that control to their environment. Currently media and texts celebrate girl power in varied and innovative ways. This special issue of FEMSPEC focuses on all aspects of girl power in media and texts, and we are calling for critical articles, creative writing, and art by young adults and professionals that address this topic. FEMSPEC is an interdisciplinary feminist journal dedicated to critical and creative works in the realms of sf, fantasy, magical realism, surrealism, myth, folklore, and other supernatural genres. Submissions on all aspects of girl power and speculative fiction are welcome. We are especially interested in submissions that focus on the following: -new developments in animations and television, such as Power Puff Girls, Sailor Moon, Charmed, Kiki's Delivery Service, Barbie and the Sensations - current television shows such as Charmed and Buffy the Vampire Slayer - speculative fiction novels/series of novels and comics featuring girl power - discussions about girls writing and publishing - submissions of writing by girls - girls' websites and home video games - female superheroes, such as Xena and the women in X-Men - anime - art or photographs Submissions should be accompanied by a cover letter, including name, address, and title of the work; submissions should include only the title of the work. Please submit 4 copies. If you are interested in writing a book review, or submitting art or photography, please contact Roxanne Harde at the address below. Deadline: 1 April 2001 Critical/analytical articles: 15 pages, MLA style Creative writing: Short fiction or plays (15 pages) and poetry (3 poems) Book reviews: 500-750 words, MLA style Send 4 copies of each submission to Donna Varga, Child & Youth Study, Mount Saint Vincent University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3M 2J6, DONNA.VARGA@MSVU.CA Send 2 copies of each book review to Roxanne Harde, Dept. of English, 411 Watson Hall, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada K7L 3N6 8rh@qlink.queensu.ca help@mail.h-net.msu.edu ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 22:23:58 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jane Fletcher Subject: Re: BDG Voting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terri Just to let you know that, as the list member who proposed _ASH_, I am currently reading the book and am able to kick off the discussion at pretty much any time (although I'd like a week's notice). The only thing I need to know is exactly where the first book in the US edition ends, so I won't inadvertently drop any spoilers for the later parts of the book. Jane ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:01:10 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We have two issues here, what to do with Conquerer's Child and what to do in the future. Concerning Conquerer's Child: as I coordinated the nominations I have to take part of the blame. As we had discussed the first 2 Holdfast books in the BDG before (with a lot of comments on the third book, too) I saw them as "shared texts" and did not realize that there's a problem. Terri suggested to discuss CC on the side and take the fifth placed book for the main discussion. That, however, would mean that people "have to" read 2 books in a month (and people who try for the first 3 Holdfast even 5), which does not seem feasible to me. IMO the main or the side discussion or both would suffer from that. So, personally I prefer the other suggestion, to make CC the BDG book in February to give people who have not read the first 3 Holdfast books the chance to catch up (that's also fair to the members who have already read the 3 books and voted for the fourth). Perhaps some list members are ready to write plot summaries of the first 3 books? We could add these to the nominator information (with spoiler warnings) on the BDG website. The BDG archive on the first 2 Holdfast books (The Slave and the Free = Walk to the End of the World + Motherlines) can be found at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/archives/bdg_slavean dfree.txt Concerning a new BDG guideline, I concur with Marcie McCauley that the boundaries are not always so clear-cut. Furthermore, I think it would be a pity if a sequel could principally not be read in the BDG. So, I propose to make the rule that "It is recommended that the first book in a series is nominated. _When_ a sequel is nominated after all, the nominator should offer information on whether the later book is comprehensible without reading the prequel(s)." Thus everybody can form her/his own opinion _before_ voting. Can list members live with that? Comments, recommendations, further suggestions? Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:40:44 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: CFP: Angela Carter (Spain) (11/30; 3/16/01) (fwd) Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:52:51 -0500 From: Brett Cox Reply-To: iafa-l@wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: CFP: Angela Carter (Spain) (11/30; 3/16/01) I thought this might be of interest.--Brett >>From cfp-owner@dept.english.upenn.edu Wed Oct 04 02:56:10 2000 >From: "Pilar Cuder" >To: >Subject: CFP: Angela Carter (Spain) (11/30; 3/16/01) >Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:39:12 +0200 >Sender: owner-cfp@dept.english.upenn.edu > > Call For Papers >ANGELA CARTER, 20TH-CENTURY FABULATOR > >A one-day conference at the University of Huelva, Spain > >16 March 2001 > >As the tenth anniversary of Angela Carter's death draws near, we feel it = >is time to give some more thought to this extraordinary writer's role in = >the innovation of late 20th-century literature. Recent studies by = >Linden Peach, Sarah Gamble and Aidan Day among others have tackled some = >of the most relevant issues concerning Carter, but much remains to be = >done. We are therefore inviting proposals for papers on Carter's = >writings, which can offer theoretical insights into her social and = >literary context (post-modernism, post-structuralism, feminism) by = >either covering several of her works, or looking at connections with = >other writers, or tracing intersections with other media (film and = >performance studies in particular). > >Plenary speakers: > >Prof. Pilar Hidalgo (U of Malaga, Spain) > >Prof. Angeles de la Concha (Open University, Madrid, Spain) > >Two-page proposals in English (500 words approximately) should be = >e-mailed to the conference conveners (see below) by 30 November 2000. = >After acceptance, full papers (15-20 pages, double-spaced, MLA format) = >should arrive in hard copy and Microsoft Word file by 31 January 2001. > >Queries and proposals: > >Pilar Cuder (picuder@uhu.es) > >Sonia Villegas (villegas@uhu.es) > >Dept. of English > >Facultad de Humanidades > >Campus del Carmen pab. 11 > >Huelva 21071 Spain > >Fax: 34-959 019 143 > =============================================== > From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List > CFP@english.upenn.edu > Full Information at > http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ > or write Erika Lin: elin@english.upenn.edu > =============================================== > ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds good to me, Pertra. Susan ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:28:29 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Concerning a new BDG guideline, I concur with Marcie McCauley > that the boundaries are not always so clear-cut. Furthermore, I > think it would be a pity if a sequel could principally not be read in > the BDG. So, I propose to make the rule that > > "It is recommended that the first book in a series is nominated. > _When_ a sequel is nominated after all, the nominator should offer > information on whether the later book is comprehensible without > reading the prequel(s)." > > Thus everybody can form her/his own opinion _before_ voting. > > Can list members live with that? Comments, recommendations, > further suggestions? > I can live with these rules. Amy > Petra > > > > > Petra Mayerhofer > mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de > -- > BDG website > http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:53:32 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Terri Subject: Re: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline In-Reply-To: <39DB3826.31332.D31C45@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I agree. This sounds good to me. :o) Terri > >"It is recommended that the first book in a series is nominated. >_When_ a sequel is nominated after all, the nominator should offer >information on whether the later book is comprehensible without >reading the prequel(s)." > >Thus everybody can form her/his own opinion _before_ voting. > >Can list members live with that? Comments, recommendations, >further suggestions? > >Petra > ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:51:04 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops! Petra! (I'm such a lousy typist! :o)) -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hericks >Sounds good to me, Pertra. > >Susan > >------------------------------------------------------ >This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > >Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:52:24 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Schedule MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I haven't had any feedback from the nominator of _Wicked_ but I think the BDG schedule should no longer be delayed. If necessary we have to do it a bit differently for _Wicked_ then. The BDG schedule for November to February is as follows: 6 November (Monday): Mary Gentle: A Secret History : The Book of Ash 1 4 December (Monday): Gregory Maguire: Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West 2 January (Tuesday): Angela Carter: Nights at the Circus 5 February (Monday): Suzy McKee Charnas: The Conquerer's Child The BDG website will accordingly be updated asap. Further information on the books can be looked up at the nomination page: http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0900.htm Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:35:02 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: Amazon stories and such MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Petra wrote: "This book [The Books of Great Alta - Jane Yolen] contains _Sister Light, Sister Dark_ (1988) and the sequel _The White Jenna_ (1989). I've got interested in this book because Jessica Salmonson mentions it in an essay on amazons (http://www.violetbooks.com/amazon.html) as a positive example in which the Amazon/swordswoman is _not_ presented as an anomaly in her society." Well, this essay certainly sounded interesting and I filed it away until time permitted and then, after reading it, thought maybe other women on the list would have recommendations in this regard: favourite Amazon stories anyone? Well, okay, let's stretch things a little: if Maria Gimbutas was gonna write a novel ... I just read _Sister Light, Sister Dark_ a few months ago and loved it. I didn't realize that it had been reissued with its sequel and will have to get myself a copy because I think it's definitely a keeper. But just the other night I finally sat down and read Barbara Walker's _Amazon_, a novel from 1992 that I came across in a used book store months ago and grabbed up furtively as though if anyone else had seen it first I would have had to fight them off for it. Ha! Since then I've seen it in the same shop several times: one woman's cast-off, another's 3000BC treasure ... Yeah, some of the writing in _Amazon_ might be a little stark (perhaps similar to Tepper's recent writing) but as I'm in agreement with much of what both women are saying, I don't find that a problem. And I was swept up in the story itself, appreciated the suspense, found the connections between the characters interesting, and enjoyed the comments made about our society and historical alternatives to patriarchal structure. I'm familiar with Walker's non-fiction but don't remember hearing any reference made to this novel and wonder if anyone else here has read it. I've also just finished two stories from the Nebula Awards Showcase for 2000: Sheila Finch's "Reading the Bones" and Jane Yolen's "Lost Girls". Apparently "Reading the Bones" is part of an in-progress novel in her Lingster series, which examines linguistic problems in communicating with alien species. I enjoyed the short piece enough to want to know more about the characters. Anyone here read her work? As for the Yolen, I gobbled up the feminist slant on "Peter Pan" and am still grinning about her version of the Barrie classic; what fun, much like Emma Donoghue's "Kissing the Witch" but with a little more edge and a little less lyric. Things have been a little quiet around here, except for the nomination stuff, so I thought I'd speak up for a change, but that's it for now. Happy reading to you all - Marcie, on what feels like a determinedly winter-ish day for so early in October in Ontario ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:47:24 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Margaret McBride Subject: sheila finch MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Shelia Finch has had a number of her stories dealing with linguistics and aliens published in Fantasy and Science Fiction the last couple of years. I enjoy them--I'm partial to stories that give a sense of how bound we are by cultural assumptions. Her aliens have valid reasons for their behavior but they don't fit with the human assumptions frequently. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:12:28 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: sharon sahilu Subject: Re: BDG Conquerors Child/New guideline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can live with that. Ie: First of a series, or those that nominator feels stand alone. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.