From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:51:02 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:37 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0104B" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:23:17 GMT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jennifer Javarone Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl I too was amazed at first with the use of "she" and the fact that so many jobs were open to women and men alike. I understood right away why Paxe avoided Sorren. It seemed to me that the situation with Sorren served as a reminder to Paxe that she hadn't done as good of a job of parenting Ricard as she would have liked. She didn't want Arre reminding her of the situation with Ricky either. I don't think I would have reacted that way, but I did understand why Paxe did. I also agree that Paxe probably didn't think of Sorren as a victim because of the way women were viewed in their society. And I'm glad Ricard was shown to have changed. Usually when I read about rapists or attempted rapes in fiction, the woman holds a grudge against the man forever and in some cases, she kills him later in a fit of rage. I like the way Lynn dealt with it better, although it does take some getting used to. Jennifer > At 07:56 AM 4/5/01 -0400, Jessie Stickgold-Sarah wrote: > >I was really blown away by the pronouns, the usage of "she" as an > >indefinite pronoun. I still remember my feeling of shock when someone > >said "Get someone to do such-and-such a job, and make sure she's smart" > >and I realized that it was not a woman-only job ("Talk to the child's > >mother and make sure she's..."). I'm not sure I've seen it anywhere > >else--certainly not so casually, in a book that's not self-consciously > >experimental. > Janice E. Dawley wrote: > Yes, I liked it too. Lynn pulls off a lot of ground breaking material by > simply stating that something is so without explaining why or how. She also > implies a lot without explicitly stating it. For instance, Paxe's reaction > to her son's attempted rape of Sorren struck me at first as blaming the > victim, or at least as being very callous. Just when Sorren needed support, > Paxe began avoiding her. But as I read on and thought about the > unquestioned power of women in Arun, I decided that maybe Paxe has no > concept of "woman as victim". She makes sure that Sorren is physically all > right and that is enough, because there isn't all the emotional baggage > that comes along with sexual assault in our culture. Looked at this way, > her behavior is still a bit self-involved, but not nearly as bad as I first > thought. And later on Ricard is shown to have changed for the better -- > unusual for a would-be rapist in fiction. > What did other people think of Lynn's treatment of this episode? > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT --------------------------------------------- Superior Net - Upstate NY's ISP of Choice Visit us at http://www.superior.net ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:24:59 +0200 Reply-To: Franziska Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Franziska Subject: Good books about the history of SF? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm looking for recs of books about the history of SF. I'm doing a paper for a seminar on the General History of Science & Technology in the 19th and 20th century, and one of the possible topics to choose from was to do something about SF (and of course since I like SF that kind of jumped out at me ). I'm mostly free to choose an emphasis that I like for the paper, though since it's not a seminar about literature or gender topics but about the history of science, I won't be able to do a paper about the history of feminist SF directly. I was thinking about doing something about the images and views on technology and science found in SF and how they changed, but with a feminist perspective (my ideas are still really, really vague). I thought maybe someone has recs for books on the history of SF that are conscious of feminist issues, but are not directly/only about feminist SF, but about the development of SF in general? Franziska ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:01:07 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Good books about the history of SF? Comments: To: Franziska MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Hugo-winner for best nonfiction year before last, THE DREAMS OUR STUFF IS MADE OF, by Thomas Disch, comes to mind. Not a comprehensive history, by any means, nor meant to be anything like objective, but a useful work to supplement Mike Ashley's histories of magazine sf, and Brian Aldiss's TRILLION YEAR SPREE (and its predecessor, BILLION YEAR SPREE) in all their quirkiness. Joanna Russ's and Ursula Le Guin's essays are also useful supplements in the wise you mention. Damon Knight's IN SEARCH OF WONDER and such other collections of criticism as James Blish's and Algis Budrys's are useful; such items as James Gunn's ALTERNATE WORLDS or his ROAD TO SF annotated anthologies, Frank Robinson's SCIENCE FICTION IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY (this past year's Hugoist), and Dave Kyle's two highly illustrated books, or Franz Rottensteiner's, are useful supplements perhaps, but not as good for primary information; although the Clute/Nicholls ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SCIENCE FICTION and the Tuck ENCYCLOPEDIA are more useful for information, they are not, obviously, linear narratives (though the Clute/Nicholls is so extensively cross-referenced as to be useful this way, and contains theme entries that can help enormously with the kind of work you seem to be doing). -----Original Message----- From: Franziska [mailto:ratcreature@GMX.NET] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:25 PM To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Subject: [*FSF-L*] Good books about the history of SF? I'm looking for recs of books about the history of SF. I'm doing a paper for a seminar on the General History of Science & Technology in the 19th and 20th century, and one of the possible topics to choose from was to do something about SF (and of course since I like SF that kind of jumped out at me ). I'm mostly free to choose an emphasis that I like for the paper, though since it's not a seminar about literature or gender topics but about the history of science, I won't be able to do a paper about the history of feminist SF directly. I was thinking about doing something about the images and views on technology and science found in SF and how they changed, but with a feminist perspective (my ideas are still really, really vague). I thought maybe someone has recs for books on the history of SF that are conscious of feminist issues, but are not directly/only about feminist SF, but about the development of SF in general? Franziska ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: BDG: The Northern Girl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janice writes: "What does happen? Sorren does chores, plays drums for her employer's scheming brother, becomes friends with a drunken wreck, and avoids the people who may be able to help her develop her psychic talent. At the end she leaves her lover in the city to travel to a dilapidated keep in the frozen north. Not exactly riveting. Then why do I like it so much?" *** *** *** I was just mentioning to my partner the other night how much I was enjoying this novel and yet I couldn't come up with a solid reason why. Now, having finished it, I'm still uncertain. However, I think part of it is something that has already been discussed: the inclusion of everyday details. While I did find them interesting for their own sake, they also contributed to my ability to sink into this other world more easily, to inhabit it alongside these three women. The dustjacket of my borrowed copy says "The land and its people are very much like our own and that is part of Lynn's magic". So I was expecting something very familiar. But I was actually stuck in the first 50 pages of the novel for several days. I felt that the setting was very unfamiliar and it took me quite some time, and the experience of following Sorren through the marketplace and Paxe on her watches and Arre in her meetings, each an everyday activity for these characters, to really feel at home in this story. [This may well have less to do with the book and more to do with the fact that it's been several months since I read any otherworldly fiction.] And then I also gravitate towards books in which the bulk of the action is internal and so I particularly enjoyed Sorren's journey (geographical and emotional) towards a sense of belonging. I also liked the mystery surrounding her visions and the set of cards her mother gave to her, her fear of, and, simultaneously, her desire to, discovering their origins. The figure of Marti Hok loomed large in my reading; I wish we'd gotten to know more of her story as well. So if I try to answer Janice's question for myself, I guess I liked it so much because of the characters that Elizabeth Lynn creates therein; it often comes down to character for me. Anyone else have any character-driven favourites they would recommend? Marcie ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:22:07 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: BDG: The Northern Girl - Rape MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Janice writes: "For instance, Paxe's reaction to her son's attempted rape of Sorren struck me at first as blaming the victim, or at least as being very callous." Some aspects of this scene took me aback also. Including when the guard hands Sorren her bracelet of shells and says "You shouldn't play so rough". Was this just another instance of an authority figure suggesting that a woman does something wrong and solicits unwanted attention, I wondered? But then later the guards are embarrassed and tell Arre that they didn't realize who had started the attack. So I wondered if the concept of an attack like this was simply the last thing they expected. As though surely they must have been playing. "because there isn't all the emotional baggage that comes along with sexual assault in our culture." And Lynn always refers to it as an attack, an act of violence uncomplicated by the implication of desire. Still, Sorren does seem to feel badly, childish, even guilty about the fight. When she's asked in the kitchen what she did, she says she fought back. As though that wasn't the expected response? Or maybe that's simply because fighting itself was so rare in Kendra-on-the-Delta, not that she wouldn't be expected to defend herself. When Arre tells her that she doesn't blame her for fighting with her, Sorren replies that she didn't want to, he forced her to, and there is no debate. Jennifer writes: "And I'm glad Ricard was shown to have changed." It was unexpected to have him apologize to Sorren. Perhaps he was compelled to do so because he felt he couldn't return home otherwise, but it's still a side to the event that I don't recall an author showing me before. Interesting. I'm glad the question of this scene was raised and discussed; there's a lot to think about in terms of Lynn's subtleties. And thanks to Janice for recommending the book in the first place. Marcie, whose copy of the Marley novel has just arrived, better late than never ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:51:56 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Re: Good books about the history of SF? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I wondered whether I should jump in this discussion as (1) I am certainly no expert on the history of sf and (2) Franziska said that she didn't want to particularly focus on feminist sf or a feminist perspective but was looking for a balanced view. However, last year I tried to find good and snappy summaries of the history of sf as I wanted to give a talk on the history of female authors in sf (quite presumptive, I know). And at that time my search left me with the impression that there is no balanced history of sf (did I look in the wrong places?). I mean balanced in the sense that female authors are acknowledged according to their contribution and that the feminist sf of the seventies is not shrugged of. Take for example the entry 'History of SF' in Clute and Nicholl's Encyclopedia. In that entry female authors are hardly mentioned and the feminist sf of the 70s only in a negative comparison with cyberpunk. And that is not because of limited space, cyberpunk is discussed at length in this entry. Of course there are other entries in the Encyclopedia, e.g. on Feminism, on Women authors and on Women as characters but the fact that female authors and feminism is so explicitly neglected in the overview presentation stressed my impression that that part of sf history is not particularly integrated into "standard presentations". I also read Aldiss's Trillion Year Spree which by comparison was rather friendly to female authors and feminism although Aldiss tends to stress the charm of the (female) authors. But _Trillion_ is much older (at least large parts of it), thus I didn't mind so much. All other presentations I had access to were older and did not mention women authors at all. In the end I heavily relied on the introductions by Pamela Sargent to the anthologies Women of Wonder. So, Todd, do the books you list give balanced views? I own I'm a bit sceptical because of how Disch's book was discussed on this list in the past and it is first on your list. Is there are an essay by Russ or Le Guin on the overall history of sf? I've read some of them (I especially liked Russ' 'Recent feminist utopias') but none I've seen are comprehensive. Sorry, if I am a bit hot on this, it made me so angry last year. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Todd Mason Subject: In search of balance: Mayerhofer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Nope, I don't know of any balanced history. That's why I suggested such a patchwork of materials...I'm not sure finding a published balanced history is likely. Shall have to return to Clute and Nicholls, which has been in storage for five years, though I didn't actually read most of the most-sweeping theme entries (as opposed to those about my favorite topics, such as "MAGAZINES"). The working model for the Russ may've been her 1l/71 F&SF books column, absolutely the first thing I read by her (Shulamith Firestone's DIALECTIC OF SEX encouraged some cogitation about a lot of things)...but I'm not aware of a survey by either her nor Le Guin (but I should check the introductory material of THE NORTON BOOK OF SF). I've managed to forget the discussion of the Disch last year, but it's not exactly the single source one needs to look at. Such works as URANIAN WORLDS are likely to be valuable, but I suspect there is crying unfilled need for such a work, or at least publicity for such a pre-existing work. Perhaps it waits for us. TM -----Original Message----- From: Petra Mayerhofer [mailto:mayerhof@usf.uni-kassel.de] I wondered whether I should jump in this discussion as (1) I am certainly no expert on the history of sf and (2) Franziska said that she didn't want to particularly focus on feminist sf or a feminist perspective but was looking for a balanced view. However, last year I tried to find good and snappy summaries of the history of sf as I wanted to give a talk on the history of female authors in sf (quite presumptive, I know). And at that time my search left me with the impression that there is no balanced history of sf (did I look in the wrong places?). I mean balanced in the sense that female authors are acknowledged according to their contribution and that the feminist sf of the seventies is not shrugged off. So, Todd, do the books you list give balanced views? I own I'm a bit sceptical because of how Disch's book was discussed on this list in the past and it is first on your list. Is there are an essay by Russ or Le Guin on the overall history of sf? I've read some of them (I especially liked Russ' 'Recent feminist utopias') but none I've seen are comprehensive. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:08:16 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Dave Samuelson Subject: Re: In search of balance: Mayerhofer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------603D4C3D1A1771934663C850" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------603D4C3D1A1771934663C850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can there be such a thing as a "balanced" history? Disch is very idiosyncratic, and not really of a historical orientation. Alcorn, Aldiss, Del Rey, Gunn, Landon, the Panshins and Stableford all strove for completeness but within stringent limitations. Scholes and Rabkin (1977) are balanced (but thin) on sf literature but their book is nearly 25 years old and its other parts don't wear that well. Parrinder's anthology (1979) offers several useful fragments. Problems of definition and inclusion/exclusion turn most historical essays into polemics, not least those written from a feminist stance. Does one start with proto-sf (if so, when: Greek myth, Lucian, Dante, or Shelley, Poe, Verne, Wells)? Is one limited to American, Anglo-American, Western Enropean, Pan-European and Japanese literatures? Women writers are represented only minimally prior to the Sixties and their growing strength since then is so recent as to be only "contemporary" history. I don't want to say that contemporary history is less reliable than any other, but we are definitely still on the first draft. Todd Mason wrote: > Nope, I don't know of any balanced history. That's why I suggested such a > patchwork of materials...I'm not sure finding a published balanced history > is likely. Shall have to return to Clute and Nicholls, which has been in > storage for five years, though I didn't actually read most of the > most-sweeping theme entries (as opposed to those about my favorite topics, > such as "MAGAZINES"). The working model for the Russ may've been her 1l/71 > F&SF books column, absolutely the first thing I read by her (Shulamith > Firestone's DIALECTIC OF SEX encouraged some cogitation about a lot of > things)...but I'm not aware of a survey by either her nor Le Guin (but I > should check the introductory material of THE NORTON BOOK OF SF). > > I've managed to forget the discussion of the Disch last year, but it's not > exactly the single source one needs to look at. Such works as URANIAN > WORLDS are likely to be valuable, but I suspect there is crying unfilled > need for such a work, or at least publicity for such a pre-existing work. > Perhaps it waits for us. > > TM > > -----Original Message----- > From: Petra Mayerhofer [mailto:mayerhof@usf.uni-kassel.de] > > I wondered whether I should jump in this discussion as (1) I am > certainly no expert on the history of sf and (2) Franziska said that > she didn't want to particularly focus on feminist sf or a feminist > perspective but was looking for a balanced view. > > However, last year I tried to find good and snappy summaries of the > history of sf as I wanted to give a talk on the history of female > authors in sf (quite presumptive, I know). And at that time my > search left me with the impression that there is no balanced history > of sf (did I look in the wrong places?). I mean balanced in the > sense that female authors are acknowledged according to their > contribution and that the feminist sf of the seventies is not > shrugged off. > > So, Todd, do the books you list give balanced views? I own I'm a bit > sceptical because of how Disch's book was discussed on this list > in the past and it is first on your list. Is there are an essay by Russ > or Le Guin on the overall history of sf? I've read some of them (I > especially liked Russ' 'Recent feminist utopias') but none I've seen > are comprehensive. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT > > Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. --------------603D4C3D1A1771934663C850 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="dnsmlsn.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dave Samuelson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dnsmlsn.vcf" begin:vcard n:Samuelson;Dave tel;fax:work: 562-985-2369 home: 949-858-7170 tel;home:949-858-7878 tel;work:562-985-4245 x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:dnsmlsn@csulb.edu fn:Dave Samuelson end:vcard --------------603D4C3D1A1771934663C850-- ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:06:29 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Margaret McBride Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl In-Reply-To: <3AD44C36.3D4FC3DC@home.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii One of the most positive things I can say is that rereading this volume made me pull the other 2 off my shelf to reread them. They are not earthshaking and typical SF/fantasy (in so much of the genres' older works in particular the plot and heroic doings seem to be ones that affect whole cultures, worlds, universes). But I like the almost "mundane" plotting because I like the characters, I suppose, and because they are dealing with issues that matter. --reminds me a bit of the feel of China Mountain Zhang by Maureen McHugh--nothing big happens but the books give a nice evocative feel for a world, culture, and characters. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:08:33 +0200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rowena Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl - Rape MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 11 Apr 2001, at 8:22, Marcie McCauley wrote: > Jennifer writes: > "And I'm glad Ricard was shown to have changed." > > It was unexpected to have him apologize to Sorren. Perhaps he was > compelled to do so because he felt he couldn't return home > otherwise, but it's still a side to the event that I don't recall an > author showing me before. Interesting. The somewhat casual told episode of a rape attempt intertwines with a similar casual description of drug-use. Ricky was high on heaven-weed when he attacked her and it seemed accepted that this is part of the reason for his attack, that and the fact that he is pampered and spoiled. When he was no longer high he could see what he did and apologize for it. It reminded me of Rinniard, a character from the Dancers of Arun, who gets agressive and unresponsible when he smokes, the conclusion is that he should better not smoke, or if he can't help it, not without his friends around to restrain him. Nowhere seems drug use to be made a big problem of, as long as you don't smoke when you are at your job and as long as you know how you respond to it, it is up to you. What struck me was a lack of psychologising, nowhere is mentioned that it might be somewhat significant that he tried to rape his mother's lover. > Some aspects of this scene took me aback also. Including when the > guard hands Sorren her bracelet of shells and says "You shouldn't > play so rough". Was this just another instance of an authority > figure suggesting that a woman does something wrong and solicits > unwanted attention, I wondered? But then later the guards are > embarrassed and tell Arre that they didn't realize who had started > the attack. So I wondered if the concept of an attack like this was > simply the last thing they expected. As though surely they must have > been playing. when Sorren decides to travel north she is warned of the cold weather and of the difficulty to find food - but no one says that is will be dangerous for a woman alone. Rowena ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.