From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:51:06 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:37 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0104C" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:00:15 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: CFP: English Studies & Uses of Pop. Culture (10-26/7-01; 7-20-01) Comments: To: cfp@english.upenn.edu, iafa-l@wiz.cath.vt.edu, h-pcaaca@h-net.msu.edu, sfuf@csd.uwm.edu, SFRA-L@wiz.cath.vt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The University of Rhode Island English Department is holding its third annual conference: English Studies and the Uses of Popular Culture Oct. 26-27, 2001 Kingston, RI. The conference is open to graduate students and professors. Please send 250-word abstracts by July 20, 2001 to Theresa DeFrancis: tdefrancis@excite.com tdef6304@postoffice.uri.edu Amy Judd: 8900@postoffice.uri.edu Snail-mail submissions send to: Theresa DeFrancis or Amy Judd Department of English Independence Hall University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:54:17 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mary-Ellen Maynard Subject: BDG for May Comments: To: FEMINISTSF@listserv.uic.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Discussion Groupies; This month we¹re discussing ³The Moon and the Sun² by Vonda N. Mc Intyre. Discussion will be officially started by the nominator about the first Monday of May. Enjoy! And once again it¹s time to raid your library for favorites, lists (or stacks) of books to be read, Nebula nominees/winners, etc. We will be starting another round of book nominations by the end of this month. Happy hunting! Mellen For the BDG Volunteers Upcoming Books- 4 June: Nancy Kress: Beggars in Spain *************************************************************************** The BDG provides a forum for focusing discussion on a particular book during a one month period. The books discussed are nominated and chosen in advance by a vote of all members of the FSFFU-L list serve who choose to vote. Start thinking about your nominations now. To quote our list-mistress, "This does not prohibit discussion of the BDG books at other times; nor does it prohibit discussion of non-BDG books." If you have any other questions about the Book Discussion Group (BDG), it's selections, previous discussions or the Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy and Utopias Literature List Serve (FSFFU-L), you can start with the BDG website at; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304, or the FSFFU-L website at; http://www.exo.net/~lauraq/femsf/listserv/fsflit/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl -- Violence & Prosperity In-Reply-To: <3ACABEE0.7F852DBA@cdsnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 10:27 PM 4/3/01 -0800, Sharon Anderson wrote: > I was also, at the time, studying martial arts. Our school practiced a >blend that was about 50% shotokan karate, 35% aikido, and 15% judo. The >concept that the book had of soldiering evolving from the dance was very >aikido-like, and thoroughly delightful. This is a very interesting thread in Lynn's writing. In some ways I think Arun as depicted in *The Northern Girl* is a feminist utopia. Women's opportunities are not limited in any way. In fact, given that most families are matrilineal, they appear to have the upper hand. And physical violence, considered by many as the province of men, is minimized. But it is very clear in all of Lynn's work that violence is not always bad -- sometimes it is necessary and right. Arré is aware that the city policy on weapons may have the side-effect of leaving it helpless in the face of an invasion. But the Ismeninas' experiment with swords leads to quite a few senseless deaths. The chearis, the dancing warriors, are the golden mean. They have a sharply honed skill in combat that slides easily into the art of dance, both tempered by a spiritual understanding of when each is appropriate. They are the living embodiment of "power to" rather than "power over". (As opposed to Mary Gentle's Ash, who seemed traditionally macho, at least to me.) It's interesting that the two closest approximations of the fabled chearis in this book were Isak and Paxe. Isak, a man and a theoretically more peaceful dancer, is set on dominating his sister, while the woman warrior Paxe doesn't want to dominate anyone, and in fact has considerable difficulty disciplining her son in any way. Though Paxe comes closer, it seems that both are missing the spiritual element, the connection to the chea, which has now been assigned as the realm of the witches. The chearis are now nothing but ghosts. I wonder if Lynn is saying that this atomization and loss of wholeness is an inevitable consequence of a relatively just society? That to achieve universal prosperity, glory must die? What do you think? ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Coldplay -- Parachutes "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:12:30 +0200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rowena Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl -- Violence & Prosp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 19 Apr 2001, at 0:16, Janice E. Dawley wrote: In some ways I > think Arun as depicted in *The Northern Girl* is a feminist utopia. > Women's opportunities are not limited in any way. I am aware you wrote "in some ways" but I would like to point out that I would be very hesitant to call a society wich practice slavery (bond servants) and is so clearly not democratic is a long way from an utopia as I see it.... Now I write this I wonder why nobody mentioned it. The world depicted in The Northern Girl seems so nice in someways, but on second consideration it has many aspects that bother me. How come nobody here mentioned any of it? Is the book to nice, doe that make less critical. Or is it that the strong position of women is such a positive point that other flaws shrink in comparison? Rowena ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:20:40 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marcie McCauley Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: The Northern Girl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rowena writes: "I would be very hesitant to call a society wich practice slavery (bond servants) and is so clearly not democratic is a long way from an utopia as I see it.... Now I write this I wonder why nobody mentioned it." The copy of NG I read came due at the library so I can't refer to it (and have read a couple other books since to ensure only vague memories) but I seem to recall that this practice *was* criticized by a member of another community in the book. Was it the matriarch in Tornor who disapproved of this perhaps? I think one of the reasons that I enjoyed reading this so much, is that it wasn't all "just as it should be". And, rather than an external threat facing a peaceful society, it was a struggle from within. It felt much more "real" to me with its mishaps and poor judgements than Vanima felt in Watchtower. Janice writes: "I wonder if Lynn is saying that this atomization and loss of wholeness is an inevitable consequence of a relatively just society? That to achieve universal prosperity, glory must die? What do you think?" Damn, now I *really* wish I had that book- what a great question! Maybe the answer is connected to the point that Rowena raised above: the "price" paid to gain (or maintain) power. Or must one expect, that in a heavily-populated urban centre, even in fantastical fiction (!), not everybody can lead a privileged life: someone has to fetch the wine. But does that mean there is a loss of honour for those south of the mountains? Are there no honourable characters in Kendra-on-the-Delta? Is there no glory in Paxe's work for Arre? Interesting enough, though I'm having to content myself with playing around with an answer rather than formulating any conclusions. I'm looking forward to further discussion, hoping there are more of you out there who aren't bookless! ;) Marcie ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:19:42 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: The Northern Girl -- Violence & Prosp In-Reply-To: <3ADEC81E.6687.1EF02D@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:12 AM 4/19/01 +0200, Rowena wrote: >I am aware you wrote "in some ways" but I would like to point out that >I would be very hesitant to call a society wich practice slavery (bond >servants) and is so clearly not democratic [a] utopia as I see it.... I completely agree. The system of bond, as we see it, seems fairly benign (I kept thinking that Sorren was the most free and easy slave I had ever read about), but it is still an in-your-face reminder of systematic oppression. And, as you say, the power of the Council was a bit scary, given that it consisted of only five people, three of whom were, respectively, stupid, weak and power hungry. (Funny that all three were men... I don't think Lynn is saying that all men are incapable of taking on such responsibility -- look at Tarn Ryth. But is it just a coincidence?) What I am not clear on, not having re-read the other two Tornor books, is how bad things looked in the earlier days of Arun's history. My sense after first reading the trilogy was that it was in part an investigation of social transformation, if not progress, over long periods of time. Arun looked a lot different in *The Northern Girl* than it did in *Watchtower*. And simply because *tNG* was the conclusion of this journey, I found myself wondering if the state of things in Arun by the end was meant to be taken as a high point. Not utopia, maybe, but an investigation of what concessions might have to be made to ensure that certain key problems (e.g. sexism, war) are addressed on a wide scale. Hm. I just don't know. Lynn is nothing if not subtle! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Coldplay -- Parachutes "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:25:02 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Nomination Period Opened MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For a change we are well in time for the new BDG selection process so that everybody will have plenty of time to find the chosen books. Please send in your nominations for the BDG July to October. As usual 4 books will be selected. Books can be nominated until Thursday, the 26 April (incl.). I will post the final nomination list on Friday, 27 April, and then we have one week of voting. Terri Wakefield will once more count the votes. Please don't hesitate to continue posting on _The Northern Girl_ because of the nominations. There's no reason why the discussion and the nominations cannot be done in parallel. Books can be nominated that fulfill the following criteria: - speculative fiction (science fiction, fantasy, horror, etc.) - feminist (loose definition, nominators do _not_ have to have read the book already, it is enough if the story outline, reviews, or general reputation indicate that the book might be of interest from a feminist perspective) - currently available in the US (in English ;-) ) as mass market or trade paperback, - have not been discussed in the BDG before ("normal" list discussions do not count) (see list of former BDG books at the end of this message). Nominated books can be novels, collections and anthologies. If you nominate a collection or an anthology please specify which stories in particular you think the group should discuss (especially if it's a large one). During the nomination period, you can nominate books per person, by sending email to the FeministSF-Lit list with "BDG Nomination" in the subject line. Please confirm the availability of any title before nominating it by contacting Maryelizabeth at Mysterious Galaxy (http://www.mystgalaxy.com/), by looking it up on Amazon.com or by enquiring at a near-by bookstore. With the nomination members should provide the following information: - author - title - publisher - list price - ISBN For example: Nalo Hopkinson: Brown Girl in the Ring. (July 1998). Warner Books; ISBN: 0446674338, List Price: $12.99 We've abandoned the restriction to one nomination per person, instead I urge you to REALLY check availability BEFORE you nominate. If the background information is missing in your nomination I assume you haven't done so and I will return the nomination to you to complete. However, if somebody has for any reason difficulties confirming availability (e.g. non-US residents without full internet access) I am very ready to help them (please contact me off-list). Nominators of books finally selected are expected to kick-off the discussion when their books are due for discussion. Nominators can do this any way they want. We will contact successful nominators before we fix the BDG schedule for July to October so that we can take your time constraints into account. I handle the nominations and continuously update the nomination webpage (see http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0401.htm ). Especially for the newcomers I want to stress: The BDG is one (and only one) feature of the feministsf-lit. It's purpose is to focus discussion on a particular book at a particular time. Other books can be discussed in parallel to the BDG, of course, and past and future BDG books can be discussed at any time on the list. The only difference to a 'normal' list discussion is that in BDG messages spoilers (for the BDG book under discussion) have not to be pointed out (the 'BDG' in the subject line is the actual spoiler warning). Further info on the BDG you can find at the BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ Petra BDG books so far: Ammonite, by Nicola Griffith Dreamsnake, by Vonda McIntyre Halfway Human, by Carolyn Ives Gilman The Mists of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley Alien Influences, by Kristine Kathryn Rusch Black Wine, by Candas Jane Dorsey Shadow Man, by Melissa Scott The Snow Queen, by Joan D. Vinge The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell Brown Girl in the Ring, by Nalo Hopkinson The Female Man, by Joanna Russ A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, by Ursula K. Le Guin Jaran, by Kate Elliott Grass, by Sheri S. Tepper Slow River, by Nicola Griffith To Say Nothing of the Dog, by Connie Willis Wild Seed, by Octavia Butler The Slave and the Free, by Suzy McKee Charnas Ring of Swords, by Eleanor Arnason The Mistress of Spices, by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni Flying Cups and Saucers, eds. Debbie Notkin et al. Briar Rose, by Jane Yolen Dawn, by Octavia Butler The Dazzle of Day, by Molly Gloss Remnant Population, by Elizabeth Moon The Gilda Stories, by Jewelle Gomez Kissing the Witch, by Emma Donoghue Not of Woman Born, ed. Constance Ash Singer from the Sea, by Sheri S. Tepper A Secret History: The Book of Ash 1, by Mary Gentle Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, by Gregory Maguire Nights at the Circus, by Angela Carter The Conqueror's Child, by Suzy McKee Charnas The Terrorists of Irustan, by Louise Marley Currently under discussion: The Northern Girl, by Elizabeth A. Lynn Scheduled: The Moon and the Sun, by Vonda McIntyre (May) Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress (June) Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:32:40 +0200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Rowena Subject: BDG: The Northern Girl -- utopic qualities In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010419221754.01d25040@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 19 Apr 2001, at 23:19, Janice E. Dawley wrote: > At 11:12 AM 4/19/01 +0200, Rowena wrote: > >I am aware you wrote "in some ways" but I would like to point out > >that I would be very hesitant to call a society wich practice slavery > >(bond servants) and is so clearly not democratic [a] utopia as I see > >it.... > > I completely agree. The system of bond, as we see it, seems fairly > benign (I kept thinking that Sorren was the most free and easy slave I > had ever read about), but it is still an in-your-face reminder of > systematic oppression. I agree that Sorren's slavery doesn't seem completely dreadfull, but remember in the very beginning of the book it is mentioned that guards find it difficult to know how to behave to her, because though being a bondservant she is being treated so well - this certainly suggests that other bondservants are treated differently. How differently is not made clear, but I guess that the people working in the grapefields have a different life. Think of Sorren's mother, it wasn't clear to me whether she was a bondservant herself, but if not, she can't have had many choices if the best option she could provide for her daughter was selling (giving?) her as a bondservant.... > And, as you say, the power of the Council was a > bit scary, given that it consisted of only five people, three of whom > were, respectively, stupid, weak and power hungry. (Funny that all > three were men... I don't think Lynn is saying that all men are > incapable of taking on such responsibility -- look at Tarn Ryth. But > is it just a coincidence?) To me it 'felt like coincidence', if men and women are equal they are equally stupid, though the stupid/bad men seem to outnumber the stupid women. The fact that all these rulers inherit their positions is in my opinion a fundamental flaw (if we are judging the 'utopia degree' so to speak) (I do btw doubt if it was meant as a utopia) > > What I am not clear on, not having re-read the other two Tornor books, > is how bad things looked in the earlier days of Arun's history. I find this difficult to compair, partly because they show other parts (both geographically as socially) of Arun. The life in the valley is presented as pretty ideal (part work, part play part study), no big power struggles - but it was also a pretty young community, quite isolated and formed by people who didn't feel the mainstream of society could give them fullfilment. The society in the North is very harsh and hiarchical, war driven - hardly ideal... (also without strong women, in fact the only choice they seem to have is becoming a 'woman of the keep' wich sounded to me as selling sex for safety) In part two we see that the society in the north is not longer constantly at war, but it is still a pretty harsh world. The Asech (nomadic tribes) are also pretty harsh, they totally reject any members of their tribe with psychic abilities - but the rest of Arun is not very welcoming either, Eliath as the 'witch city' that is better be avoided. What I found interesting was how the still obscure 'category' of witches in part two managed to become such a power in part three- so much so that their original 'allies' the red clan seemed to be 'replaced' by them. An other thing I liked very much was the attempt to 'write history', the scholars tried to account for what happened and we (at least those having read the two earlier episodes) can see where they go 'wrong'. > sense after first reading the trilogy was that it was in part an > investigation of social transformation, if not progress, over long > periods of time. Arun looked a lot different in *The Northern Girl* > than it did in *Watchtower*. And simply because *tNG* was the > conclusion of this journey, I found myself wondering if the state of > things in Arun by the end was meant to be taken as a high point. Not > utopia, maybe, but an investigation of what concessions might have to > be made to ensure that certain key problems (e.g. sexism, war) are > addressed on a wide scale. Hm. I just don't know. I didn't see it as an 'upward' journey, more as a way of showing that there is a constant shifting ballance between powers, all of them having their good and their bad aspects (lack of war is good, but the 'peacefull' powers are also dominating after a while and strugle for power for themselves - also it means a loss of the grace, the shea that the red clan found). greetings, Rowena ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:32:30 0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I nominate Playing God by Sarah Zettel Mass Market Paperback - 448 pages (November 1999), Warner Books; ISBN: 0446607584; List Price: $6.99 Kirkus Reviews , October 1, 1998: Hardcover debut for the author of a couple of well-received science fiction paperbacks (Fool's War, etc.). On planet All-Cradle live the Dedelphi, homicidal humanoid aliens whose numerous clans have been warring for millennia. Humans, however, are toxic to Dedelphi and must wear environmental suits. All active Dedelphi are female, powerfully bonded mother to daughter, sister to sisterexcept that when they grow old, they turn male. Now their technology has reached the nuclear and biological danger level: half the population has died from a mutated plague, and the desperate clans have ceased hostilities so that Dr. Lynn Nussbaumer of Earth's Bioverse corporation can help. In return, Bioverse will be permitted exclusive access to the planet's unexploited biological resources. The natives will be evacuated to huge orbiting city-ships while Bioverse deals with the plague. But Lynn finds that only wise Praeis Shin of the t'Theria clan is willing to negotiate a genuine end to the violence. Lynn, meanwhile, has a personal problem: old college flame Arron Hagopian has been working closely with the Getesaph clan and publishes some inflammatory material about Bioverse's true intentions, claiming that it will sooner destroy the planet than let the clans fight it out. Then Arron discovers the Getesaph are planning a surprise attack on the first city-ship. He tries to warn Lynn but the Getesaph grab them both, along with Praeis's daughter Resaime, who, having been deliberately confined with Lynn and Arron, quickly dies. The Getesaph capture the ship, the t'Theria retaliate, and war explodes across the planet. Even if Lynn can escape, how can she stop the carnage? A taut, thoroughly captivating yarn, with splendid characters, a gratifyingly substantial sociobiological base, and one intractable problem: Armed with nukes and missiles, how did the Dedelphi avoid exterminating themselves long before humans showed up? _Playing God_ was short-listed for the 1998 Tiptree. According to the comments of the jury gender is mostly explored biologically in this novel but I nonetheless think it worthwhile to read. According to most of the reviews it is a good read. One of the Tiptree jugdges' comments: Some rather wooden and rather politically correct human characters only highlight the fascination of Zettel's aliens, a female-centred species whose internecine conflicts and the culture consequent on their inhuman biology were both believable and intriguing. The most interesting questions raised by this book were biological at base, and came from a parallel with humanity, and a recollection of Elaine Morgan's hypothesis, that menopause was evolved to keep old females' wisdom as a human resource, rather than have them expend their biological resources in dangerous births. The obvious twist in the Dedelphi story is the gender switch at menopause and the charmingly ironic reversal, both of all those patriarchal SF stories where aliens mutate into deadly female forms, and of all those old quips about brainless women. Because Dedelphi men are the post-menopausal form of Dedelphi women, and they have literally lost their minds. But the less obvious twist is the question that arises in parallel with Morgan's hypothesis: is the violence that plagues this society due to the absence of "old" women? Could this book function as a parable or investigation of women's post-menopausal possibilities, a fictional version of Germaine Greer's The Change? There is no clear indication of such a purpose. Nevertheless, the potential it invokes make a shortlisting no more than its due. (SK) Science Fiction Weekly Review by A. M. Dellamonica at http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue89/books.html#pg I also think about nominating _Always Coming Home_ by Ursula Le Guin which is available again. But I'm a bit concerned because it is rather long (525 pages) and it is a mixture of stories, fables, poems, etc. A selection of some of the stories might be reasonable for the BDG. Can anybody who has read the book already advise me on this? Thank you. Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jessie Stickgold-Sarah Subject: BDG: Northern Girl as non-utopia In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:02:39 CDT." <200104200502.BAA21696@pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu> I've been meaning to make this comment for a few days and I think it ties in well with the discussion of bond servants and the closely held power of the city. One of the things I like most about this book is that it is not resolved, it is not The Final Battle, it's even pretty anticlimactic. Tornor's a ruin; Sorren may be going to "save" it, but through trade agreements and balances of power, not through her visions. I'm reminded of Vonda McIntyre's Dreamsnake, in which the protagonist's quest doesn't turn out at all as we would expect. How it compares with the first two books--certainly the standard of living appears to be higher for everyone, and there's no question that the glory of the cheari has been traded for peace. Spiritual and moral though they were they were certainly warriors. One of the books is all about a war. Because it's so real and so down-to-earth and because the needs and desires that lead to war are so sympathetic, I think we forget about the brutality. The main character is so much a soldier we sometimes think he's unreasonable--but he is the protagonist and we do want him to be happy. This is really one of Lynn's great strengths: making us sympathize with a fundamentally unlikeable character. (Her Sardonyx Net is a perfect example.) I don't think she mean Northern Girl to depict a perfect society; I think it's a step along one path, away from one bad thing. And from one very limited perspective, that of Arre's household. Talking of glory--what about the ship that's going to sail off into the ocean and see if there's anything out there? That's incredible, but we see it only as a side curiousity. There is so much going on in this book; that's why I love it. Sorren is in a big city and sometimes she focuses on what I'm interested in and sometimes not, and that's the way life really is. Jessie ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:13:51 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Kirsten Hoyte Subject: BDG Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd like to nominate The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse by Keith Hartman Meisha Merlin Publishing; ISBN: 1892065053; List Price $16.00 I read this book quite a while ago, but I still pull it out every so often for a chuckle. There is also a lot of social commentary in it and a unique vision of a near-future Atlanta. I like the twists on issues such as will anti-abortionists suddenly find abortion okay if potential homosexuality can be detected in a fetus. I also like the coming of age story, but would be curious of other people's views on the two teenagers (I am a high school teacher) and on the depiction of Wicca. In general, there is just a lot happening in the book that seems worth discussing. Kirsten All the quotes below are from Amazon "The date is September 2024. Atlanta is a patchwork of subcultures, coexisting but not communicating. Young gays are all Catholic; since the gay gene was identified, others countenance abortion in the case of homosexuality. Baptists, represented by televangelist media mogul and U.S. Senator Zachary Stonewall, denounce Wiccans as Satanists (along with most other denominations). The Wiccans worship naked, though, and Wiccan magick actually works. The Cherokee made their pile in casino gambling and seek a return to Native culture in Northern Georgia, led by a cross-dressing shaman who actually sees the spirit world. That's the backdrop for The Gumshoe, The Witch, and The Virtual Corpse, a noir mystery-thriller with SF and fantasy elements^Å" Charles de Lint, The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, June 1999: "If you can get past the unwieldy (and rather too cutesy) title, there's a fine debut novel by Keith Hartman. What kind of novel I'm at a little of a loss to say. Equal arguments can be made that it's a police procedural, a contemporary Wiccan fantasy, a gay PI novel, a near future sf thriller, a novel of social commentary, and even, in the sections from the point of view of one character, a YA coming of age story. In the end, it's a bit of them all, I suppose, which is part of what made me enjoy it so much. I love a book that breaks down the walls between genres, that just tells a story, the author trusting himself and the story enough to let it go wherever it leads him. " Oh yes, I enjoyed this novel. Very much. It's a deft, unusual combination of mystery, social commentary, fantasy, and humor. I couldn't have told you where it was going until the last chapter, but I kept reading faster and faster find out. --P.C. Hodgell A Fabulous romp-- with some sharp edges. --Nicola Griffith Liked his hero, loved his plot, and envied his style --Mike Resnick Witty, inventive, and endlessly entertaining, Hartman's debut novel seamlessly weaves the plausible and the outrageous, the hilarious and the fearful. This is an amazing book. --Nancy Kress This is a wonderful first novel by an exciting new author. I look forward to seeing more of his work. --Lee Killough Compelling and engrossing, this book grabbed me and didn't let go until long after the end. --Nina Kiriki Hoffman ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:41:04 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Christine Ethier Subject: nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I nominate Mercedes LAckey's _The Black Swan_. DAW Books. List price 6.99 Description AS the only child of a powerful sorcerer, Odile Von Rothbart has studied the magical arts under her father's stern tutelage all her life. Yet she feels only fear toward him. For considering his wife's untimely death the ultimate betrayalk, BAron Von Rothbart scours the land in the shape of a great bird of prey. His personal mission is to capture women who arouse his wrath and inspire his rage for vegeance against all womankind. These poor souls he turns into swans - forcing them to spend thier lives as beautiful but powerless animals who only regain thier human forms briefly eacn night by the transitory light of the moon. Yet though Odile is terrified of him, she has learned far more than her father intended to teach her - both of the magical arts and of Rothbart's nature. And both as a woman and the guardian of his swan flock, her heart goes out to each and every young maiden ensorcelled by her father. And then the noblest of Von Rothbart's enchanted flock, the Princess Odette, finds the courage to confront her captor, wrestling from him a pact which could lead to freedom for herself and all the swan maidens. Knowing Von Rothbart will use all his magical cunning to avoid honoring this pact, will Odile have the strength to face him in a final magical confrontation which, if she fails, will lead to her death and the murder of all her flock? Chris ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:28:31 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: BDG nominations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to nominate: THE BRIDGE by Janine Ellen Young >From http://www.mystgalaxy.com/scifi_y.html Contact. Most of us have always assumed that contact with an alien species, if it came at all, would (1) come in the form of radio waves, (2) be viewed through the Hubble Space Telescope by some scientist geek, or (3) arrive as little green men in neat flying saucers. That said, suppose contact took an entirely different vector. Suppose, if you will, there was an alien species ^× let's call them Karasans ^× who communicate through the exchange of genetic material. Contact. A message of understanding and welcome, created to bridge worlds, has just crossed the cosmos and fulfilled its mission ^× in the form of a virus. It begins with the end of the world as we know it ^× the Pandemic. Billions die, fully ninety percent of the Earth's population is infected. Those who survive the plague are forever changed by it, for encoded in the virus is the very essence of what it means to be Karasan. Many who survive initially, and are not killed in the aftermath, are driven to madness and/or suicide by what they have experienced. Some "lucky" few have been given the knowledge needed to bridge the gap between the species, both culturally and physically ^× the knowledge to build a bridge to the stars. They will stop at nothing to complete their vision. The Bridge is, quite simply, as mind altering as the virus described in its pages. Take Carl Sagan's Contact and the most lethal contagion that Robin Cook ever imagined and you might come close to what Janine Ellen Young has accomplished here. The Bridge is, at once, science fiction at its best ^× complete with all that we've come to expect of the genre ^× and a very personal story of understanding and hope brought to the reader through fully realized characters. An outstanding sophomore effort from the author of the cyber-thriller, Cinderblock. Warner Aspect SF paperback original, $6.50. ^×PMH While there are several POV characters in THE BRIDGE, I feel it qualifies. Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:00:46 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: BDG nominations (fwd) Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'll nominate Marie Jakober's THE BLACK CHALICE. Review from the website is below. Jakober's webpage is at http://www.sff.net/people/asinclair/marie.html Victoria Strauss review at SF SITE at http://www.sff.net/people/asinclair/www.sfsite.com/06a/bc82.htm In summary Jakober has written other sf/f -- THE MIND GODS -- but hasn't gotten much attention, IMO because she is hard to categorize as a writer, Canadian, and has written political stuff (e.g., two of her novels were about the Nicaraguan revolution). I find her work to be very thoughtful -- she brings in the big issues -- and at the same time fun. THE BLACK CHALICE was especially fun, from all sorts of angles. Quick themes: fantasy, feminism, internalized homophobia, state / military / religious power (power-over juxtaposed with power-within), etc. The Black Chalice Marie Jakober's first novel in several years, and well worth the wait. The Black Chalice is a complex and beautifully-written historical fantasy incorporating medieval Christianity, German mythology, pagan theology, politics, and magic. The story is told by a very religious monk who was in love with his knight, and hates himself for it; now he has been ordered to tell the story of the turbulent times he lived through, but he finds that he must tell the story the way he really lived it, and not the way he would like to whitewash it. As a young man he was a squire in love with his knight, a disillusioned and cynical crusader. The crusader is recruited by representatives of the old religion to protect the world from the ambitions of his own lord, an increasingly megalomaniacal Duke who believes he is specially chosen by God to establish God's kingdom on earth. Jakober's strength is in portraying the conflicts & contradictions with which people & societies wrestle. In The Black Chalice we see Christianity juxtaposed with paganism; personal power juxtaposed with power-seeking; love, truth, and passion juxtaposed with fear, hate, and zealotry. The Black Chalice is a story of political and religious intrigue, magic and romance, war and power. Fans of Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, and of Guy Gavriel Kay's works, will definitely love it; but The Black Chalice breaks new ground and does it in a unique and beautiful way. This novel ought to get Jakober a lot of well-deserved attention. Highly recommended. -- lq, 12/30/00 Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net feministsf-lit list-mistress ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:10:24 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Margaret Poore Subject: Re: BDG Nomination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just recently read Playing God and think it would be a great choice for discussion. But I do think the posted review gives away too much and may spoil the read for those who haven't read it yet. I love LeGuin but had a hard time with Always Coming Home. I finally just read the portions that told the story and enjoyed that. Now that I am "older and more mature" it may be time for me to try the whole experience again. NightSky ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:59:08 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: BDG nominations - BLACK CHALICE info (sorry) Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed sorry, i forgot to follow protocol! Marie Jackober. THE BLACK CHALICE. Edge SF & Fantasy (a canadian press). ISBN 1894063007 . Hardcover, June 2000, list price $23.95 (available $19.16 on amazon.com presently). amazon.com reviews: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1894063007/o/qid=987886477/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-2911592-3587715 At 10:00 AM 4/21/01 -0700, you wrote: >I'll nominate Marie Jakober's THE BLACK CHALICE. Review from the website >is below. Jakober's webpage is at > http://www.sff.net/people/asinclair/marie.html >Victoria Strauss review at SF SITE at > http://www.sff.net/people/asinclair/www.sfsite.com/06a/bc82.htm > >In summary Jakober has written other sf/f -- THE MIND GODS -- but hasn't >gotten much attention, IMO because she is hard to categorize as a writer, >Canadian, and has written political stuff (e.g., two of her novels were >about the Nicaraguan revolution). I find her work to be very thoughtful >-- she brings in the big issues -- and at the same time fun. THE BLACK >CHALICE was especially fun, from all sorts of angles. Quick themes: >fantasy, feminism, internalized homophobia, state / military / religious >power (power-over juxtaposed with power-within), etc. > > >The Black Chalice > >Marie Jakober's first novel in several years, and well worth the wait. The >Black Chalice is a complex and beautifully-written historical fantasy >incorporating medieval Christianity, German mythology, pagan theology, >politics, and magic. > >The story is told by a very religious monk who was in love with his >knight, and hates himself for it; now he has been ordered to tell the >story of the turbulent times he lived through, but he finds that he must >tell the story the way he really lived it, and not the way he would like >to whitewash it. > >As a young man he was a squire in love with his knight, a disillusioned >and cynical crusader. The crusader is recruited by representatives of the >old religion to protect the world from the ambitions of his own lord, an >increasingly megalomaniacal Duke who believes he is specially chosen by >God to establish God's kingdom on earth. > >Jakober's strength is in portraying the conflicts & contradictions with >which people & societies wrestle. In The Black Chalice we see Christianity >juxtaposed with paganism; personal power juxtaposed with power-seeking; >love, truth, and passion juxtaposed with fear, hate, and zealotry. > >The Black Chalice is a story of political and religious intrigue, magic >and romance, war and power. Fans of Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of >Avalon, and of Guy Gavriel Kay's works, will definitely love it; but The >Black Chalice breaks new ground and does it in a unique and beautiful way. >This novel ought to get Jakober a lot of well-deserved attention. Highly >recommended. -- lq, 12/30/00 > >Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net >feministsf-lit list-mistress Laura Quilter lquilter@exploratorium.edu ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.