From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:51:12 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:37 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0104E" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:27:52 +0200 Reply-To: Franziska Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Franziska Subject: Native Tongue trilogy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've just finished reading the Native Tongue trilogy by Suzette Haden Elgin, and I enjoyed the first two but was really disappointed with the third, Earthsong. I had some problems with the whole series, mostly that I had a hard time to suspend disbelief for the premise, i.e. with the way this fictional Amendment was handled and also with the assumption that women are non-violent (at least compared to men) for biological reasons. But overall the first two parts were interesting and I liked a lot of the characters. But I couldn't get into the third part. First it was very fragmented, which made the story hard to follow and prevented me to connect with the characters, even though it was intentional to indicate the story being told by mediums, IMO it isn't really an engaging way to tell a story. In the first two parts there were a few instances where characters and events were introduced and then just dropped as well, but it happened constantly in the third part. And I had trouble following the timeline and sequence of events too. Also I didn't like that Láadan was almost completely abandoned as a theme in the third part. Franziska ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Robin Reid Subject: Re: Native Tongue trilogy Comments: To: Franziska In-Reply-To: <20010429142752.C1088@katchoo.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NATIVE TONGUE TRILOGY >But I couldn't get into the third part. First it was very fragmented, >which made the story hard to follow and prevented me to connect with >the characters, even though it was intentional to indicate the story >being told by mediums, IMO it isn't really an engaging way to tell a >story. In the first two parts there were a few instances where >characters and events were introduced and then just dropped as well, >but it happened constantly in the third part. And I had trouble >following the timeline and sequence of events too. Also I didn't like >that Láadan was almost completely abandoned as a theme in the third >part. > >Franziska Dear Franziska: I had exactly the same response the first time I read the third book (I'm not sure it is a trilogy in the most common sense, three books following the same characters -- more like Tepper's loosely grouped three novels, GRASS, RAISING THE STONES, SIDESHOW), but that's not your main point. But the more I read the novel, the more fascinatingn I found it. FOr one thing, the novel actually presents other than Anglo American characters. For another, the "problem" with Laadan was always how MEN would learn it. IN some ways, I was dissatisfied with the ending of the first novel (the women of the Lines learn it and get given everything they want by the men??), and parts of the second (treating men like little boys to be manipulated??), but I"m not sure that the series as a whole posits biological necessity (in the second novel, there's some discussion of how men are conditioned by the Puritan and guilt-ridden American culture as well as being at the mercy of their biology to be unable to sexually satisfy womeN). At that point, the two novels seem to be going in a sort of separatist direction. But the shift to solving the PROBLEMS of the world by solving the problems of nutrition (plus the implication of existence after death in a non-Christian definition of the term) through music and chant -- quite fascinating. THe novel does skip widely through time and various perspectives -- but many feminist novels do (who says linear chronology, progress, and a clear beginning and end is the ONLY way to tell/write a story?). I like the series more each time I read it -- just seems to keep on opening up and undercutting former premises and pushing for change. And, as Nazareth said in the first one, nobody in a specific cultural context can even IMAGINE what TRUE change will look like! Robin ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:07:56 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Margaret McBride Subject: Native Tongue trilogy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I had taught and read the first 2 volumes of Native Tongue several times and quite liked them. The abrupt change she postulates in the status of women has some suspension of disbelief problems but I think is acceptable given the time that she wrote it, the point she wanted to make, the focusing on certain aspects that satire/criticism has always done, etc. However, the 3rd volume was very disappointing to me. I can accept her reasons for abandoning the women's language. She said she thought of it as an experiment and it had absolutely no impact on the real world so she decided to abandon it in the book too. My optimistic self wanted to see it have some change in a fictional world. It was the rest of the plot devices that just didn't work for me; I cannot suspend disbelief about saving the world from starving by teaching us to sing the right way. I know I'm simplifying and using sarcastic language but I just couldn't buy it. I like her other books a lot so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt; but when I recommend her books to students and others interested in language in SF or strong feminist works, I have to say that the 3rd volume didn't work for me. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the FEMINISTSF-LIT listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF-LIT Contact FEMINISTSF-LIT-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.