From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:51:33 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:39 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0106A" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:12:59 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Heather Stark Subject: Re: Amazons Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit belated reply - just back from a no-telecoms holiday think I was the one who booted in the fyi on the amazons-the-steppes archeology your're right - it's true that women in pure Jaran culture didn't fight - however, based on the heroine's example, this was starting to break down over the course of the series - in that women who were called to fight by their inclination and ability were starting to saddle up and do it cheers, h. -----Original Message----- From: sc To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] Amazons >I missed the beginning of this discussion, are you talking about _Jaran_ ? >As I recall in that book the women didn't do any of the fighting, and the >female protaganist was an offworlder who was at first regarded as somewhat >strange for riding out with the all-male fighting unit. More the >_exceptional-woman_ syndrome than part of an Amazon environment. > >Cheers >SC > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Maryelizabeth Hart >To: >Sent: 21 May 2001 15:03 >Subject: [*FSF-L*] Amazons > > >> > Interesting that Elliot would have chosen as her setting, a >> > steppe-dwelling >> > horse-riding tribe that's quite like the only known archeological >> > evidence >> > for the existence of Amazons. I wonder if she knew about this? >> > >> >> it's entirely possible. We had some discussion of a book on Amazons that >> was being released around the time she was last in San Diego. >> See her web site http://www.sff.net/people/Kate.Elliott/bio.html >> >> Maryelizabeth >> >> -- >> ******************************************************************* >> Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 >> 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 >> San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 >> http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: >> mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com >> >> ******************************************************************* >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for >> discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >> unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: >> unsubscribe feministsf-lit >> >> Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > >------------------------------------------------------ >This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf-lit > >Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:50:04 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Heather Stark Subject: Re: BDG Moon and Sun Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joyce wrote: , I just saw a >program, maybe on Animal Planet channel, about a horse "listener", a man who >has amazing rapport with horses. Maybe the person you were thinking of is Monty Roberts? http://www.montyroberts.com/ He has a book which has just come out which applies the techniques he uses with horses to communication between people. I heard about Monty Roberts first at work, when I saw a guest lecture by Kelly Marks. Kelly mentioned that the techniques she'd been working onturned out to be very compatible with what Monty has been doing, and they have some kind of affiliation with each other - she promotes his message and techniques in the UK, I think. http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/ Like Monty, Kelly is working on 'productised services' which extend the lessons of successful communication with horses to human communication challenges. She is developing a schtick that explores at how her techniques (which are similar to Monty's) apply to the businesss world. (Myself, I thought she was much more compelling when she stuck to the horse issues. Probably because she has a demonstrated track record there, and is clearly possessed of proven insights that she can pass on to others through teaching.) (Re: what this has to do with sweet'n'sour'n'strange - I agree with Joyce that rapport with animals - or other species - isn't *necessarily* over-sweet as a theme.) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:58:48 +0100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Angela Barclay Subject: BDG: The Moon and the Sun Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I really enjoyed _The Moon and the Sun_ and reading what others thought about it. While _The Book of Ash_ seemed like a fantasy awkardly stamped on top of a weighty treatise on war; _The Moon and the Sun_, in comparison, is a seamless meld of fact and fiction. I was surprised to learn that people lived so long in the seventeenth century. Was this just the case amongst the priviledged? Unlike some of the rest of the reading group, I enjoyed the descriptions of dress and the opulence of the palace; but, like Sharon, I did think there should have been more mention of the odor, squallor and disease that coexisted with the opulence. One of the things I liked most about the novel was how the relationship between the naive but brilliant Marie-Joséphe and the fascinating, worldly Lucien grows into a love "without boundaries; without limits". McIntyre included a delightful mix of bawdy innuendo (and outright lasciviousness) with tender courtship- the kiss that finally takes place between M-J and Lucien is positively scorching. I also liked the tender relationship between the Sea Woman and the Land Woman- how Sea Woman tries to keep Land Woman's feet wet, shortens her period and heals the terrible wound she sustains in the blood letting. One thing I don't understand is why Marie-Joséphe, who is so bright, didn't figure out the creature's ability to heal. I think it would have been very powerful if she and perhaps even Yves had made the discovery and then set the creature free, thus denying the King his greatest wish. It would also have been interesting if M-J was faced with the choice of whether to convince Sherzad or her people to ease Lucien's pain. Like Joyce I've not read a historical/fantastic/feminist romance before. I'd like to try some others in this genre. Does anyone have any recommendations? Angela ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:02:21 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: BDG: The Moon and the Sun/recommandations Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/3/2001 5:58:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, barclaya@TELUSPLANET.NET writes: << Like Joyce I've not read a historical/fantastic/feminist romance before. I'd like to try some others in this genre. Does anyone have any recommendations? Angela >> Chelsea Quinn Yarbro has a series of vampire novels where some of the issues are feminist. All novels take place in historic time periods. The series moves from Roman times to early 20th century. Judith Tarr does some as well, I particularly likesd _Alamut_. Elizabeth Scarborough has one out as well _TheLady in the Loch_. And if Jane Yolen's Briar Rose is still in print you might want to give that a try. Katherine Kerr has some out I think as well but I don't know about them at all. Chris ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 03:18:31 -0000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Wilhelmina Thomas Subject: Re: BDG: The Moon and the Sun/recommendations Comments: To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I recommend the following Octavia Butler, Catherine Asaro, Terry Brooks, Orson Scott Card, Teresa Edgerton, Roger Zelaney and Judith Merkle Riley. Ms. Riley is a romance writer, but novel with Nostradamus and and undead head is a fantasy to me. I also recommend www.sfsite.com as well as the lisit on Feminist SF/Fantasy page. Wilhelmina >From: Christine Ethier >Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > >To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU >Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG: The Moon and the Sun/recommandations >Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:02:21 EDT > >In a message dated 6/3/2001 5:58:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >barclaya@TELUSPLANET.NET writes: > ><< Like Joyce I've not read a historical/fantastic/feminist romance before. > I'd like to try some others in this genre. Does anyone have any > recommendations? > > Angela > >> > > Chelsea Quinn Yarbro has a series of vampire novels where some of the >issues are feminist. All novels take place in historic time periods. The >series moves from Roman times to early 20th century. Judith Tarr does >some >as well, I particularly likesd _Alamut_. Elizabeth Scarborough has one out >as well _TheLady in the Loch_. And if Jane Yolen's Briar Rose is still in >print you might want to give that a try. Katherine Kerr has some out I >think >as well but I don't know about them at all. > >Chris > >------------------------------------------------------ >This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf-lit > >Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: BDG: Beggars in Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Welcome I'm going to try several different methods to kick-off the discussion for Nancy Kress' novel _Beggars in Spain_, but jump in with any discussion whatsoever! ideas to discuss: 1) for those who had read the novella "Beggars in Spain"- the first section of the book, entitled "Leisha" for those who haven't, but want to chime in anyway (please do)... how did the rest of the novel affect how or what you came away with after that first novella/section? What do you all think of the ways that Nancy Kress uses different characters' perspectives (in this book, and her others if you'd like)? 2) did you sympathize at all any or more so with some characters? For example, I think I was more on the side of Leisha (perhaps because of the first section) and her campaign of cohabitation/integration than of the separatists of Sanctuary led by Jennifer Sharifi. Any comments? I think this becomes more played out in the other 2 novels, but we don't want to jump ahead and leave anyone out. 3) what do people think of the likelihood of Kress' future, or a similar one? Are the Sleepless a potential- or any priviledged minority that has more access to power? What about a split between donkeys and livers, or the once-broken barrier, that future 'post-human' groups will be created- such as the SuperSleepless and undergo the same problems before any good rapprochement is arrived at by the main group? 4) gut reactions to the novel? Like it, hate it, can't believe it, it was too disturbingly real? Waiting to hear back =) Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:34:41 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: just received from Circlet... Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC , IsaacL , broaduniverse@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new anthology, SEXTOPIA: STORIES OF SEX AND SOCIETY Literally just took it out of the envelope, so no time to read anything yet beyond the contributors. Interesting mix of folks known for SF (Catherine Asaro and Suzy McKee Charnas) and folks known for erotica... Will report more later, but wanted to give a "heads up." Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:44:57 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Todd Mason Subject: just received from Circlet...: M'e Comments: To: "IsaacL@yahoogroups.com" , Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC , broaduniverse@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If one looks at Susie Bright's annual BEST AMERICAN EROTICA, one usually finds a fair amount of speculative fiction in any given volume, and often at least one well-known fantastic-fiction writer (along with Cecilia Tan, who has to be considered one of our main amphibians in this regard by now). And the interconnections don't stop there, though some are tenuous, such as the fact that Marcy Scheiner and Ellen Datlow were the mimetic and fantastic erotic fiction editors, respectively, at the imploding site ThePosition.com, and apparently they now both edit annuals: Datlow with Terri Windling on St. Martin's YEAR'S BEST FANTASY AND HORROR, of course, along with her other anthologies, at least one (ALIEN SEX) dealing with erotic matters, and Scheiner with BEST WOMEN'S EROTICA last year, which may be meant to join Cleis Press's lesbian and gay male erotica annuals. More to the point, not a few writers often have worked in both fields, to greater or lesser effect and with greater or lesser ambition. TM -----Original Message----- From: Maryelizabeth Hart [mailto:publicity@mystgalaxy.com] new anthology, SEXTOPIA: STORIES OF SEX AND SOCIETY Literally just took it out of the envelope, so no time to read anything yet beyond the contributors. Interesting mix of folks known for SF (Catherine Asaro and Suzy McKee Charnas) and folks known for erotica... Will report more later, but wanted to give a "heads up." ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:45:09 -0800 Reply-To: shander@cdsnet.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sharon Anderson Subject: Re: BDG: Beggars in Spain Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 4) gut reactions to the novel? Like it, hate it, can't believe it, it was > too disturbingly real? > This book really hit me in the gut. I am a teacher, forced by ill health to retire and try to get disability, after 27 years of teaching. My work has been the primary way in which I defined myself for a good long time now. And suddenly -- I have no work. I feel like I have no purpose, no reason to live. And while I believe in the individual's right to choose life or death, I am not ready to die...today. But I have, in the book's lingo, become a beggar. Not only am I ashamed and angry, but after Jennifer Sharfi's reaction, I was beginning to thing I should commit a very public hara kiri. And issue a gilt embossed invitation to you know who. It was a relief to me that the author didn't agree with that sentiment. My brother (he's a nurse, and has inherited the same disease I have) and I have had many discussions on the value of the individual (if any) when that individual can no longer contribute to the community. We don't agree. One interesting fact is how you define "value". When I was earning money, I always said that a person's value did not depend on work done. Now that I am no longer working, I am feeling pretty valueless. On the other hand, when I was earning money, I wouldn't have given often to a beggar. Now, I probably would. Just some random thoughts.... --s ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:33:31 +0100 Reply-To: billinger@enterprise.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Elizabeth Billinger Subject: Re: BDG: Beggars in Spain Comments: To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU In-Reply-To: <3B1F14E3.DE0E3C17@cdsnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sharon Anderson said: > This book really hit me in the gut. I am a teacher, forced by ill > health to retire and try to get disability, after 27 years of teaching. My > work has been the primary way in which I defined myself for a good long time and > I have had many discussions on the value of the individual (if any) when that > individual can no longer contribute to the community. And I wanted to respond - nothing to do with the book by now - and say that as far as I'm concerned participating in these discussions is a valuable contribution to the community. Maybe it's not so tangible as teaching and seeing your students progress, watching them pass exams etc, but it is still an activity that helps other people to increase their knowledge and understanding. It's something I value. Lizbeth ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 00:50:42 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: BDG: Beggars in Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is long and weaves on and off topic so if you are easily bored disregard, grin Its been a long while since reading this novel but I remember my reaction was basically, we are so close to having designer babies it scares me a bit because you consider the thousands of children in real life who are born live for a little and die unloved, who could have been loved somehow if there were little things like food and shelter and schooling. Then you read about people fighting over frozen embryos who spend tons of money to preserve the DNA of someone they loved when somewhere on the planet is a child who needs to be loved to survive and is so desperate for it, but it never arrives in time or if it does, it turns into the wrong kind of love. Then there is a separate issue that gets me down a bit, is this physical drive to have to reproduce. I cannot fathom why women in general(of the women I have associated myself with whether in an academic setting or around my own area where I reside) get horrified when another woman mentions in passing when the subject comes up she chooses to not have children. I decided not to reproduce when I was 13 and with the exception of a brief window of time where the maternal thing hit me at 18, have not had the inclination since and I am now 34. Margaret Atwood really hit that on the head in Handmaid's Tale, but am digressing off topic here... I mean, remember that couple who did a fertilization procedure to find an embryo that matched the tissue type of their daughter who was dying of a type of Leukemia so they called it a designer baby called upon to serve a purpose? After farming eggs then fertilizing them it was the very last zygot that was the match. I remember when this novel came out, it was just in the news they were starting to run all those machines to identify DNA, back in 1991 or so when the race was starting? So the concept of making a child who never needed sleep was not so far fetched. But you know whenever they mention anything that smacks of remaking perfectly designed children, older folks think of the Nazis and the master race. So Kress captured in her tone those running fears that inhabit all of us who could speculate "what if?" And this would be the right sort of climate in America to have this sort of growing dichotomy between those who have and those who have not, to make it an even wider spanse if people who have were able to create their "dream child." > > > > 4) gut reactions to the novel? Like it, hate it, can't believe it, it was > > too disturbingly real? > > And being the nosy gal that I am(grin) I had to comment on what Sharon said: > This book really hit me in the gut. I am a teacher, forced by ill > health to retire and try to get disability, after 27 years of teaching. My > work has been the primary way in which I defined myself for a good long time > now. And suddenly -- I have no work. I feel like I have no purpose, no > reason to live. And while I believe in the individual's right to choose life > or death, I am not ready to die...today. But I have, in the book's lingo, > become a beggar. I really really believe in a cultural sense, people treat change in vast, very monumental ways. Where it is an American custom to define yourself as what you do, but when it gets tossed about in the cultural mix, it can take on many different forms. I was very ill and am currently disabled myself. And I had to learn something very important or I wasn't going to make it. That sometimes things change for a good reason, whether it is your health (as in my case it was Severe Depression), or you face a loss (like the job before you became disabled), and like any loss there is a time you take to grieve over it. I took a year off this past year to learn about myself, that and to give my body the rest it needed, because I had been for the previous five years, patching myself up in order to move onward with my degree, and working, and caring for my elderly father, and there wasn't anyone to say to me, you need time, and you need to go rest. So against everyone's advice, I said am getting off the merry go round and taking a breather. At first there was guilt (my professors and friends at school commented man wish *I* could take time off like that but life won't let me, thing is, I have learned that anyone can do anything they want to, least in this country), then the first five months I was like so ridden with angst because I was not *doing* anything. But you know I was doing something. I was helping my father learn to rest too, he was used to hard physical labor, then he got very ill in 1999. We sort of took a vacation together, as the world went through its daily grind(6am the foghorn at the Santa Fe station sounds, at 5pm it sounds again indicating the day is done), we would spend afternoons talking, growing a garden, planting fruit trees that have given us some great Blood oranges and Apricots, or if either of us wanted to, slept all day, then watched a movie or took a walk later in the evening----we had all this FREEDOM! and it was not until this past March we started feeling I dunno how to describe it other than, content, calm, maybe normal? There are people in this world who think if you are not working as hard as they are, you are lazy. But you know, I graduated in 1999 with my BA in English, and I did not get to enjoy the feat of doing it until about January of this year. Because I had it in my head not to stop and see what I had accomplished, I had to go get a job and make money and run that ratrace or else I would get left behind...and that was what stopped me, who the hell am I to get left behind from what or who? I was a single woman for gawd sake! I could do anything I damn well pleased! Then was around Christmas when all these folks I had made friends with over the years started remembering me and asking about what I had been doing, and I would say I needed a rest, and I would hear wow, you look fantastic, am so happy you got what you needed. That was when I felt like this whole experiment in terror, of saying stop I need to get off this bandwagon for a bit, worked out for me. You can't be any good to yourself if you do not treat yourself well. So this may be a gift of time to you Sharon, to breathe, to do whatever you want, as long as your body receives what it needs, and if it is rest, then it might be for now, that is what the body is telling you. I think the Beggar part of this novel is more attuned to say someone who worked in an auto plant then finds out they found a way to make production of cars better using better made human beings, so someone with the skills of an autoworker would feel as if they had taken every bit of what he was because they took his job. It is a bit different with people who are knowledgible about a lot of different things, because out of that knowledge you have more choices, much like without the need to sleep, these children were able to think out problems and run businesses because they had the means to contain more smarts and had the time to accomplish more with their gifts. Oh and the cultural thing I mentioned at the beginning of this speel, grin, was I notice in my own culture, that being of Mexican-American culture, when it seems you have been handed a certain lot in life that means it is a chapter of your life ending, it usually means you have another door open to something else. In plaintalk when something bad happens to my relatives, they have this ability to simply start over even when they are in their last years of living. For me anyway, starting over was after my divorce in 1994 with nothing to my name, I had a net worth of zero. Now that I have finally gotten the rest I need, I can see much more clearly the steps I can take to fufilling a decent life for myself. I remember telling myself when I got done with this book, Kress is not far off the mark as far as the technology went, because remember, they are trying to trademark or patent those DNA they are using for those code of life books...makes me think about the possibilities. Ordering a child is not that hard to do if you have the cash in our country. Jo Ann ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:09:06 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: minor list administrativia Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (1) i've set the annoying automatic resubscribe announcements that come every year, and dump people off every year if they don't confirm, to "probe" -- which should send an innocuous message. as long as the account is live when the message is sent, no problem. (2) list archives. i'll be working on them this summer. Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:38:55 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] minor list administrativia (fwd) Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII sorry y'all that i wasn't clearer last time. nobody has to do anything. that's the nice part of the switch. in the past everybody had to reconfirm once a year. now no reconfirms are necessary -- but once a year the listserve "probes" your account to make sure it's still active. no big deal. if anybody experiences problems with the list let me know. repeat: nobody needs to do anything. this was just for everyone's entertainment / edification. Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:31:14 -0400 (EDT) From: ash To: lauraq@exploratorium.edu Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] minor list administrativia i'm confused (sorry) do we say i'm here or just have active email. sorry ash On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, earthyfemme wrote: > I'm heeere! > > V.Lee > ------Original Message------ > From: Laura Quilter > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Sent: June 7, 2001 3:09:06 PM GMT > Subject: [*FSFFU*] minor list administrativia > > > (1) i've set the annoying automatic resubscribe announcements that come > every year, and dump people off every year if they don't confirm, to > "probe" -- which should send an innocuous message. as long as the account > is live when the message is sent, no problem. > > (2) list archives. i'll be working on them this summer. > > Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.