From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:52:10 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:42 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0108B" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:32:27 -0800 Reply-To: shander@cdsnet.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sharon Anderson Subject: What book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Somebody please remind me what is the name and author of the book for next month. Thank you. --s ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:45:18 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: Re: What book? Comments: To: Sharon Anderson Comments: cc: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU In-Reply-To: <3B71BDFA.E8EA5FDB@cdsnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ACK- we're supposed to be discussing _Brain Plague_ by Joan Slonczewski. I just got back on e-mail for the first time since Monday and saw and error message that I wasn't authorized to send to the list- I think I've changed it back so I can send and the message will be resent! misha On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Sharon Anderson wrote: > Somebody please remind me what is the name and author of the book for > next month. > > Thank you. > > --s > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf-lit > > Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:46:51 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Misha Bernard Subject: FSFFU-LIT: BDG: Brain Plague MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Misha Bernard To: feministsf-lit@listserv.uic.edu Subject: FSFFU: BDG- Brain Plague Hi! This month our book discussion group selection is Joan Slonczewski's _Brain Plague_ (2000) To start the discussion, I wanted to throw out some different ideas I thought of I'd be interested in discussing, and then mention my particular topic (which we can all ignore =) ) 1) How do you all feel about Chrys' changed art? She uses a new tag- Azetidine- after the micros' 'drug'. Does this include them in the artmaking process? Is it 'fair', is it collaborative? 2) When the carrier group Chrys is introduced into campaign for micro rights (at least some of them- Selenite seems to come around some toward the end, but probably doesn't support micro rights, just carriers' rights to have them), what sorts of rights can they be asking to implement while the 'bad' micros are still kidnapping hosts? How will justice be implemented for the kidnapping and/or death of host bodies by micros? Will carriers' losses be subsummed under whether 'they asked for it' by having micros willinging? Could anyone ever prove otherwise? OK, those are my first two discussion starters- feel free, as always, to suggest anything you want =) My last comment is on what I found particularly fascinating in _Brain Plague_ after I read it last March for the first time. I had read and reread some works about the pro-choice/'life' debates about the same time and noticed that some of the same cautions given to pregnant women were given to carriers; that the whole discussion of brain 'plague' vs. 'enhancers' seemed to change (as did 'fetal rights' vs abortion rights debates in the 1980s) with the circulation of images; and that 'carriers' is a relational term like 'mother' that when appended to a person presupposes the outcome of the relation. These are the areas I am hoping to write a paper and present on at ICFA23 next March, so of course I'm very interested- however, I'm not sure whether I'm interested in discussing them or not =) But, since I threw it out there, I won't stop it, but I did want folks to know where I'm going with it. Misha Bernard Cultural Studies PhD student mbernar1@gmu.edu George Mason University ------------------------- -mmmm! tastes like a scratch world! but it's Bishop Berkeley's Cosmo Mix!- Ursula K. Le Guin "World Making" (1981) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 06:06:34 -0800 Reply-To: shander@cdsnet.net Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Sharon Anderson Subject: What Book? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I tried this before, but I'll try again. What book are we reading NEXT month? (Do not tell me what book we are supposed to have read THIS month; three people already did that.) Thanks. --s ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:39:09 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Terri Subject: Re: What Book? Comments: To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU In-Reply-To: <3B768D69.BFDC79E5@cdsnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Sharon & anyone else interested, The books for Sept. and Oct. are as follows..... 3-4 September: The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse by Keith Hartman 1 October: The Fortunate Fall by Raphael Carter I am having a bit of a problem getting The Fortunate Fall. Is anyone else having difficulty finding it ?? Terri >Okay, I tried this before, but I'll try again. > >What book are we reading NEXT month? ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:41:58 +1000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maire Subject: Re: What Book? Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am having problims getting the Gumshoe et al. I have ordered it- but as my copy of Anways COming Home that I ordered for the discussion *still* hasnt come, ti doesnt bode well. I found Fortunate Fall in HB in a bookshop I go to in the city ( I live in Sydney) its a chain, Dymocks, but this particular branch has an excellent sf section (an entire floor, in fact) AlthoughI was very disappointed, on the same visit, to be told that not only was Kushiel's Dart not in-store, it probabl never would be- as it was unlikely to be picked up by UK publishers, and even if it was, it was even more unlikely to be picked up from teh UK pub by Aust publishers. So that was a bit sad. Guess I will have to order from the US. Talking of ordering- I do know that the Fortunate Fall is readily available at amazon.. can you poss order it on-line somewhere? Maire "There's nothing wrong with pregnancy. Half the people wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for women being pregnant." Sarah Kennedy, British Radio 2 > -----Original Message----- > From: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > [mailto:feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Terri > Sent: Monday, 13 August 2001 12:39 AM > To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] What Book? > > > Hi Sharon & anyone else interested, > > The books for Sept. and Oct. are as follows..... > > 3-4 September: The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse by > Keith Hartman > 1 October: The Fortunate Fall by Raphael Carter > > I am having a bit of a problem getting The Fortunate Fall. Is > anyone else having difficulty finding it ?? > Terri > > >Okay, I tried this before, but I'll try again. > > > >What book are we reading NEXT month? > > ------------------------------------------------------ > This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf-lit > > Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:14:55 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "M.S. McCauley" Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: trouble finding list-reads MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! I had trouble finding the Hartman novel for September as well. However, whenever I've been unable to locate a BDG book locally I've consistently had good luck ordering from Mysterious Galaxy, which is where I turned for the Hartman novel. They replied to my Email requests promptly, in a friendly manner, and the air-mail shipping and handling charges were surprisingly reasonable. Mind you, there were no oceans involved in the shipping (from California to southern Ontario) but customs between the US and Canada can be tricky and this order arrived remarkably quickly, more quickly than orders that have travelled a much shorter distance geographically. So if others are frustrated tracking down list-reads locally, but want to support a quality independent bookseller while ordering on-line, this may be an excellent option for you. No, I'm not on their payroll; this is just a recommendation based on my own experience. Here's some info I snipped from their webpage if you're interested: Mysterious Galaxy Books 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd., #302 San Diego, California 92111 1-800-811-4747 or (858) 268-4747 Fax: (858) 268-4775 Monday through Thursday: 10 AM to 7 PM Friday: 10 AM to 8 PM Saturday & Sunday: 10 AM to 5 PM http://www.mystgalaxy.com/ Happy reading to you all! Marcie, who is about a third of the way through the Slonczewski novel and enjoying every minute of it :) ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:08:04 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: AW: [*FSF-L*] FSFFU-LIT: BDG: Brain Plague Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I enjoyed this book, I was immediately drawn into the story and nearly read it in one day. I especially like the biological basis in Slonczewski's books in general. My knowledge of biology is limited but her explorations appear well-founded to me. Some things, however, seem too facile in this book, e.g. Plan 10 for your health. Have a perfect body and muscles as much as you want without any effort! I wish. Of course, this was introduced to stress the differences to Plan 1 which does not even cover life-threatening deseases. Nonetheless, it creates this unrealistic Schlaraffenland-feeling (Shangrila?, land of milk and honey? my dictionary cannot help me this time, people lying around while their food flies by itself into their mouth?). Too facile for my taste was also how the symbiosis between the humans and the micros was presented. IMHO the psychological effects were not explored enough. There was no melting of personalities here (compare for example to the Trills in Star Trek, Jadzia Dax). There was the danger of being taken over but what about the fact that intelligent beings reside in your brain and know everything about you, you're never alone (of course, that can also have its advantages). I think I'd have serious problems in that case. In many instances the micros were presented as too cute (e.g. the god(dess) worship). Rose's independent thinking was a welcome variation! And Daeren is just too perfect to be true! Misha Bernard wrote: > 1) How do you all feel about Chrys' changed art? She uses a new tag- > Azetidine- after the micros' 'drug'. Does this include them in the > artmaking process? Is it 'fair', is it collaborative? The micros are involved in the creative process, however, in all instances I remember right now their contribution was restricted to suggestions and advice. But what would be wrong if the art were the result of a closer cooperation? In modern art collaborative creation is not unusual (although I suppose later-born art historians will try to figure out what the contributions of the individual members of these groups are, we are so used to the concept that art is created by individual geniuses). > 2) When the carrier group Chrys is introduced into campaign for micro > rights (at least some of them- Selenite seems to come around > some toward > the end, but probably doesn't support micro rights, just > carriers' rights > to have them), what sorts of rights can they be asking to > implement while > the 'bad' micros are still kidnapping hosts? How will justice be > implemented for the kidnapping and/or death of host bodies by > micros? Will carriers' losses be subsummed under whether > 'they asked for > it' by having micros willinging? Could anyone ever prove otherwise? A Magna Charta for micros? No one can be sentenced to death without a jury of one's peers? That might be tough for the carrier that provides the environment. If we turn it around and apply it to ourselves: Earth or the planetary ecosystems have no say when we "hurt" it. Imagine, Earth would kill people off for minor offenses to make a point (like Selenite)! > I had read and reread some works about the > pro-choice/'life' debates about the same time and noticed > that some of the > same cautions given to pregnant women were given to carriers; that the > whole discussion of brain 'plague' vs. 'enhancers' seemed to > change (as > did 'fetal rights' vs abortion rights debates in the 1980s) with the > circulation of images; and that 'carriers' is a relational term like > 'mother' that when appended to a person presupposes the outcome of the > relation. That's an interesting idea but I do not quite follow at the moment. What circulation of images do you mean? And what do you mean with 'appended to a person presupposes the outcome of the relation'? Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de Website of Book Discussion Group on feminist sf www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:08:09 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: AW: [*FSF-L*] What Book? --> BDG schedule Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <3B768D69.BFDC79E5@cdsnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sharon Anderson [shander@CDSNET.NET] wrote: > Okay, I tried this before, but I'll try again. > > What book are we reading NEXT month? > > > (Do not tell me what book we are supposed to have read THIS > month; three > people already did that.) O.k., Sharon, we all misunderstood you. The BDG book for September is _The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse_ by Keith Hartman, followed by Raphael Carter's _The Fortunate Fall_ in October. The BDG schedule can be looked up at www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ anytime. Furthermore, once a month Mellen kindly posts it. By the way, at the end of August or of September the next nomination round is due (we always start in the middle of the month so that the discussion is not disturbed so much). The advantage of August is that people have 4-6 weeks to get the book for November, however, as people are on vacation the participation might be low. September would be better in that respect, but then people have only 4 weeks to get and read the book (a difficulty for some oversea members). I tend to September. Does anybody have strong feelings on this? Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de BDG website www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/ ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:17:18 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Linda Novak Subject: If You Can't Find Fortunate Fall Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4d.fb1f77a.28a8141e_boundary" --part1_4d.fb1f77a.28a8141e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many copies are available online. Try these three sites: www.bibliofind.com (price ranges from $4.39 to $35) www.abebooks.com (price ranges from $3.95 to $30) Canadian and Australian bookseller sites are listed here. www.barnesandnoble.com (price ranges from $13.95 for a new paperback 1-3 days shipping; $3.95 to $30 used) And I didn't even check www.Alibris.com. I think you give up too easily. Find those books! --Linda in NYC. --part1_4d.fb1f77a.28a8141e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many copies are available online. Try these three
sites:
www.bibliofind.com (price ranges from $4.39 to $35)
www.abebooks.com (price ranges from $3.95 to $30)
Canadian and Australian bookseller sites are listed here.
www.barnesandnoble.com (price ranges from $13.95 for a new paperback 1-3 days
shipping; $3.95 to $30 used)
And I didn't even check www.Alibris.com. I think you give up too easily. Find
those books!
--Linda in NYC. --part1_4d.fb1f77a.28a8141e_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:56:28 +0800 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Carol & Phil Ryles Subject: Brain Plague MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm new to this list and would like to say I thought Brain plague was a great choice for the month. I really enjoy the worlds Joan S creates, combined with her brilliant ideas on the future of technology. I could write pages about this book -- and may even try -- Let me know if I start babbling :) Petra said: >Some things, however, seem too facile in this book, e.g. >Plan 10 for yourhealth. >Have a perfect body and muscles as much as you want >without any effort! I wish. Of course, this was introduced > to stress the differences to Plan 1 which does not even >cover life-threatening diseases. Nonetheless, it >creates this unrealistic Schlaraffenland-feeling >(Shangrila?, land of milk >and honey? my >dictionary cannot help me this time, people lying >around while >their food flies by itself into their mouth?). I agree that it does seem unrealistic to have such an effortless way to stay healthy. However, if nanomedicine takes off, it could be possible. The websites below are worth a look: Joan takes the process just a wee step further -- trim off a few fat cells, add a few extra muscles. http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/#NMFAQ http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/nanotechAndMedicine.html The difference between plan 1 and plan 10 does raise some important questions, however. It is predicted that life preserving nanomachines can be manufactured cheaply, conveniently, and in vast numbers (see above URL's). Therefore, after a few generations there would be plenty for all -- everyone should be able to be free of life threatening diseases regardless of their wealth. Yet, in Brain Plague, this level of protection is heavily restricted -- a more believable scenario, I think. On a lighter note: I also found a URL for a nanorobot 'art gallery', where you can download images of specialized 'bots such as respirocytes, endotheliocytes etc. They are reminiscent of Chrys' microbe pictures :) http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/Gallery/index.html Cheers, Carol Ryles. ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:00:18 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mellen Subject: BDG - reminders Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu, feministsf@uic.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Meant to send this to the list serves, sorry Petra. Hi all; Since next month's BDG selections have now been discussed at some length, I think I'll skip my regular mid-month posting. Instead, I want to ask a few questions. Is the mid-month reminder useful? --- too late? ----- too early? ---- Do we need more than one reminder a month? I post the entire upcoming schedule each month at the end of the reminder. Does anyone see that, or do we need a different format? Petra, I'm comfortable with either date you proposed for voting - hate to cut the ones who need time to get a book short though. Maybe any book that might take longer to get can be put at the end of the schedule? Hope you're all having a lovely summer - or is it winter "down under"? Input would be appreciated. Thanks - Mellen ------------------------------------------------------ This is the feministsf-lit listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf-lit Contact feministsf-lit-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.