From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:52:33 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:44 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0109C" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:22:59 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "M.S. McCauley" Organization: @Home Network Subject: BDG: The Gumshoe, etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all - What I most enjoyed about this book is something that Kirsten has already discussed, Hartman's sense of humour. That, and my simple desire to find out what happened, conspired to find me rushing through the book, more quickly than I should have with the intention of discussing it afterwards. ;) However, I'll share some of the thoughts I've had in response to comments here and some general impressions. *SPOILERS BELOW* I like the way we are immediately informed, with the first paragraph, that this novel does take place in the future. I also like the fact that it's not set so far in the future that it's difficult to "settle in" to that time and place, which I sometimes have trouble adjusting to. A cash-less society wherein an iced mocha costs nine dollars: that's not too hard to believe! Were there aspects of the novel that others *did* find unbelievable? Because we began with "the gumshoe", I found myself particularly attached to him, especially interested by the portions of the story he told, but I didn't actually "dislike" any of the characters' narrations either. I wonder though, how distinct each charaters' voice really is. Not that I had a great deal of trouble keeping everyone straight (well, the chapter headings sure helped ) but it seemed that the tone of the novel was fairly consistent despite the multiple viewpoints of the characters. Not necessarily a bad thing: any other comments on this? On my first read, I didn't take note of the passage another member has pointed out: "Not a werewolf, just a woman. But dark and frightening, in a way that only a woman could be." I was swept away of the action of the closing scene. Reading over the section again (416), I am somewhat puzzled by the last sentence, but I don't recall seeing anything else in the novel that led me to believe that Hartman portrays the women as any more "dark and frightening" than the men. Maybe I missed other things, but that's not my impression following a hasty first reading. In my haste, I missed the hints offered at the end of two early chapters: that of the Artist, which ends with "Sometimes you can only save a thing by destroying it", and that of the Singer, which ends "But we all make certain sacrifices". This sort of attention to detail, as someone else has mentioned, isn't unusual in the mystery genre, but it's fun to think of reading again and looking for all the "clues" you've missed the first time through while distracted by the storyteller. The only thing that detracted from the reading for me really was the editing of the text. Every/Ever, Their/There, letters and words omitted: these errors peppered throughout the book tripped me up when I would much rather have raced along with the plot. Lt Strand is clearly troubled by the moral issues that have concerned some readers too, would "give [her] right eye for five minutes alone with [Calerant], to find out how the Hell he pulled it off, and just what was going on in his head". But she ultimately decides that there's little point to publicly pursuing these unanswered questions. "Calerant would still be dead, and Stonewall would still be going away for life in prison. Just with a slightly shorter set of names under his list of murder convictions." (quoting 424, 425) Obviously though, the DA also remains unsettled. "By the way, I was wondering ..." she begins, but does not finish, presumably deciding that it's best not to get into it. I didn't find the ending troubling; perhaps I have different expectations of mystery novels. When Benji writes the poem for Summer in the afterword, are we intended to assume that he has undertaken the role of "The Chosen" officially? Is this Hartman's way of opening the door to the sequel? Given this book was published in 1999, he may well have written something else; I ordered this from Mysterious Galaxy in the US and I'm not too likely to "happen" upon his next book up here, but am curious to know if he's still writing and if the new stories are connected to this one in any way. Anyone? Either way, would you want another book with these characters? Marcie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:09:03 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG Voting Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Terri: Asaro, The Last Hawk Nunn, Illicit Passage Schulman, the Rainbow Credenza Starhawk, The Fifth Sacred Thing thanks! Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:16:20 EDT Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Marilyn Gibson Subject: Re: BDG Voting Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all. I hope you don't mind this post, but I feel that it's essential info. Marilyn www.hangingbyastring.com Oprah recently had a show about this atrocity and it was heartbreaking. Here's the petition to the United Nations background information. Madhu, the government of Afghanistan, is waging war upon women. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to death by an angry mob of fundamentalists for accidentally exposing her arm while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists and writers have been forced from their jobs and restricted to their homes. Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging in the street, even if they hold Ph.D's. Depression is becoming so widespread that is had reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate among women but it must be extraordinary high; those who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression would rather take their lives than live in such conditions. At one of the rare hospital for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. It is at the point where the term "human rights violations" has become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative freedom: to work, to dress generally as they wanted, and to drive and appear in public alone until only 1996. The rapidity of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide. Women who were once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and treated as subhuman in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or culture but it is alien to them and is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence even if they are women ina Muslim country. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder and injustice committed against women by the Taliban ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:23:27 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mellen Subject: BDG announcement Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu, feministsf@uic.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Discussion Groupers; This month of September wešre discussing; The Gumshoe, the Witch and the Virtual Corpse by Keith Hartman. Discussion has been started. Hope the next book discussion has fewer major interruptions. The voting period will not end for the next round of books until 9/21 - please remember to cast your vote. You can find info about the nominees at http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0901.htm. Mellen For the BDG Volunteers Upcoming Books- 1 October: The Fortunate Fall by Raphael Carter *************************************************************************** The BDG provides a forum for focusing discussion on a particular book during a one month period. The books discussed are nominated and chosen in advance by a vote of all members of the FSFFU-L list serve who choose to vote. Start thinking about your nominations now. To quote our list-mistress, "This does not prohibit discussion of the BDG books at other times; nor does it prohibit discussion of non-BDG books." If you have any other questions about the Book Discussion Group (BDG), it's selections, previous discussions or the Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy and Utopias Literature List Serve (FSFFU-L), you can start with the BDG website at; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304, or the FSFFU-L website at; http://www.exo.net/~lauraq/femsf/listserv/fsflit/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:31:13 +1000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maire Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where do we actually vote? Maire "I read part of it all the way through." - Samuel Goldwyn > -----Original Message----- > From: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > [mailto:feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Mellen > Sent: Friday, 21 September 2001 1:23 AM > To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU > Subject: [*FSF-L*] BDG announcement > > > Dear Discussion Groupers; > > This month of September wešre discussing; The Gumshoe, the Witch and the > Virtual Corpse by Keith Hartman. Discussion has been started. Hope the > next book discussion has fewer major interruptions. The voting > period will > not end for the next round of books until 9/21 - please remember to cast > your vote. You can find info about the nominees at > http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0901.htm. > > Mellen > For the BDG Volunteers > > Upcoming Books- > > 1 October: The Fortunate Fall by Raphael Carter > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > > The BDG provides a forum for focusing discussion on a particular > book during > a one month period. The books discussed are nominated and chosen > in advance > by a vote of all members of the FSFFU-L list serve who choose to > vote. Start > thinking about your nominations now. To quote our list-mistress, > "This does > not prohibit discussion of the BDG books at other times; nor does it > prohibit discussion of non-BDG books." > > If you have any other questions about the Book Discussion Group > (BDG), it's > selections, previous discussions or the Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy > and Utopias Literature List Serve (FSFFU-L), you can start with the BDG > website at; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304, or the FSFFU-L > website at; http://www.exo.net/~lauraq/femsf/listserv/fsflit/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:34:33 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mellen Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oops. The note I got from Terri says the BDG voting period extends until 9/21, but the link for the descriptions says the voting period is closed. Anybody know? Terri? TIA Blessings - Mellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:39:00 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mellen Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Maire; See my most recent post, the voting period may be closed. *If* the voting period hasn't closed, you can vote for four choices by sending email to Terri (terriergraphics@CYBERTOURS.COM). Stay tuned to see if anyone responds about when the voting period closes - or closed. Blessings - Mellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:41:11 +0200 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Petra Mayerhofer Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only the period to _nominate_ books is closed. Voting starts after that and continues until tomorrow. Votes should be send to Terri. Petra Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC schrieb am 20.09.01: > Oops. The note I got from Terri says the BDG voting period extends until > 9/21, but the link for the descriptions says the voting period is closed. > Anybody know? Terri? TIA > > Blessings - Mellen ______________________________________________________________________________ Flug.de - 570.000 Nutzer, ein Ziel: der optimale Flug http://flug.de/sb/?PP=0-5-100-105-12 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:39:40 +1000 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maire Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought it was that the *nomination* period was closed. Voting has to be open to choose the nominations Maire "I read part of it all the way through." - Samuel Goldwyn > -----Original Message----- > From: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > [mailto:feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Mellen > Sent: Friday, 21 September 2001 1:35 AM > To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG announcement > > > Oops. The note I got from Terri says the BDG voting period extends until > 9/21, but the link for the descriptions says the voting period is closed. > Anybody know? Terri? TIA > > Blessings - Mellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 09:41:57 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Mellen Subject: Re: BDG announcement Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <200109201541.f8KFfBh04929@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Of course, I wasn't looking closely enough at what I was reading. Thanks - Mellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:54:01 -0400 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Terri Comments: To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Comments: cc: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Everyone! Two more days to vote! Please send your votes for your FOUR (4) choices for the next BDG group read to me at...... NOT TO THE LIST !! You should receive a reply from me within 24 hours that I have received your votes. If you do not receive a confirmation from me, please let me know. We don't want anyone's votes to be lost in cyber space! :o) The voting period is from now until midnight, September21, USA, EDT. The winners will be announced during the following week. The nominated books are listed below. Thanks ! Terri Wakefield Nominations: Catherine Asaro: The Last Hawk. Paperback ISBN 081255109 Doherty Tome Associates, LLC October 1998. $8.00 Margaret Atwood: The Handmaid's Tale. Anchor Books; ISBN: 038549081X List Price: $12.95 Emma Bull: War for the Oaks. List Price: $13.95, Paperback - 320 pages (July 2001), Tor Books; ISBN: 0765300346 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.92 x 8.25 x 5.55 Jim Grimsley, Doug Beekman: Kirith Kirin. List Price: $16.00, Paperback - 456 pages 1 edition (May 15, 2000), Meisha Merlin Publishing; ISBN: 1892065169 Anne Harris: Accidental Creatures. List Price: $14.95, Paperback - 288 pages (October 2000), Tor Books; ISBN: 0312875606 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.75 x 8.20 x 5.44 Louise Marley: The Glass Harmonica. List Price: $6.99, Mass Market Paperback - 384 pages Reissue edition (August 1, 2001), Ace Books; ISBN: 0441008364 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.08 x 6.79 x 4.26 Alice Nunn: Illicit Passage. ISBN: 1 875274 09. On how to order see below J. Neil Schulman: The Rainbow Cadenza. (Paperback - July 1999) 1999 Reprint edition, with supplementary commentary included, not found in original 1983 edition. List Price: $27.50, Amazon.com price: $US19.25 Starhawk: The Fifth Sacred Thing. Trade paperback. Bantam Doubleday Dell. July 1994. ISBN 0553373803. List Price: $15.95. Connie Willis, Sheila Williams (Editors): A Woman's Liberation : A Choice of Futures by and About Women. List Price: $12.95, Paperback - 320 pages (October 2001), Aspect; ISBN: 0446677426 Sarah Zettel: Playing God. Mass Market Paperback - 448 pages (November 1999), Warner Books; ISBN: 0446607584; List Price: $6.99 More information about nominations can be found at ....... http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0901.htm