From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:53:10 2002
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:47 -0600
From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU>
To: Laura Q <lquilter@FEMINISTSF.ORG>
Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0112A"

=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:45:49 -0800
Reply-To:     publicity@mystgalaxy.com
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Maryelizabeth Hart <publicity@MYSTGALAXY.COM>
Organization: Mysterious Galaxy
Subject:      Two notes on WAR FOR THE OAKS
Comments: To: Fem-SF <FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

1) It made (via my nomination) the Booksense Top Ten list of recommended
SF / F recently
http://www.booksense.com/readup/booksense76/scifi/index.jsp

2) For those of you who know Emma broke her elbows in an accident in
August, the latest is that she is healing, but has a way to go before
recovering fully.

Maryelizabeth



--
*******************************************************************
Mysterious Galaxy Books                   Local Phone: 858.268.4747
7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302           Fax: 858.268.4775
San Diego, CA 92111            Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747
http://www.mystgalaxy.com    General Email:
mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com

*******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:31:15 +0100
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Marga <428476@FILOZ.UNIZAR.ES>
Subject:      Re: December's BDG
Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
          <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello there,
I just bought A Women's Liberation (paperback) and it cost me 27 euros,
does anyone know if there is a European edition????? so ask for the price
first before ordering. I hope it is worthwhile, it will probably be.
marga.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:13:04 -0500
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Terri Wakefield <terrierg@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject:      War for the Oaks
Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu
Comments: cc: feministsf@uic.edu
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

This months BDG read, is War for the Oaks by Emma Bull. I found it to be
delightful! The characters were lovable, the plot moved quickly, and it was
basically pretty upbeat, with lots of Phouka humor throughout.

A little background........ War for the Oaks is a reissue,
originally published in 1987, and considered to be a classic of Urban
Fantasy. Reading it for the first time I did not find any of the material,
even the music, to be dated. WFO won the Locus Award for Best First Novel.
Interestingly, Emma later went on to form a duo with the Fabulous Lorraine,
named The Flash Girls. They won the Minnesota Music Award for Best World
Folk Band. Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, and Jane Yolen, among others are
featured on their cd¹s.
I would say that Emma Bull is probably a bit fey in addition to her War for
the Oaks character Eddi McCandry <g>.

A few questions.......
Did you find the human characters, the Seelie, and Unseelie believable?

Who did you consider to be the most likable? The most despicable?

How did you feel about the various battle scenes?

Did others get the feeling War for the Oaks had a bit of an anti war
statement to it?

Terri
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:31:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Terri Wakefield <terrierg@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject:      Emma Bull Sites
Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu
Comments: cc: feministsf@uic.edu
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

A few interesting Emma Bull sites.........

    http://realitybreak.sff.net/archive/bull.htp

    http://www.qnet.com/~raven/emma.html

    http://www.player.org/pub/flash/flash.html

    http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Emma_Bull.htm

Terri
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:15:13 EST
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Lou Hoffman <Louhq@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: War for the Oaks
Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="part1_11d.8612e89.293d7da1_boundary"

--part1_11d.8612e89.293d7da1_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'll try to avoid spoilers for those who haven't finished it yet.

I love War For the Oaks and have it in the original signed paperback and a
hardcover. Since I live in and love Minneapolis, where the story is set, I
identify very strongly with the plot: save my city!

I found the central characters to be believable, they had enough depth that I
felt they had a background even if they didn't talk about it in the story.
Their changes throughout the action of the story were consistent with their
personalities.

The most likable people were Eddi and the Fey, including the pookha. I adored
the brownie. I loathed the redcaps.

The battle scenes were interesting, the POV was consistent and the time
dialation/compression was realistic of high stress situations. Haveing never
been in a battle, I can't speak to the realism.

An antiwar feeling? Yes, I suppose, in that war is a waste of lives. But
seemed to me that there was a strong theme of "Some things are worth fighting
for" but the weapons needn't be swords or guns.

I loved Eddi as the protaganist/hero who was able to ask for and receive help
while not losing her position as the leader.

This is my first time in this discussion group and I'm looking forward to the
responses.

Thanks!

Lou

--part1_11d.8612e89.293d7da1_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I'll try to avoid spoilers for those who haven't finished it yet.
<BR>
<BR>I love War For the Oaks and have it in the original signed paperback and a hardcover. Since I live in and love Minneapolis, where the story is set, I identify very strongly with the plot: save my city!
<BR>
<BR>I found the central characters to be believable, they had enough depth that I felt they had a background even if they didn't talk about it in the story. Their changes throughout the action of the story were consistent with their personalities.
<BR>
<BR>The most likable people were Eddi and the Fey, including the pookha. I adored the brownie. I loathed the redcaps.
<BR>
<BR>The battle scenes were interesting, the POV was consistent and the time dialation/compression was realistic of high stress situations. Haveing never been in a battle, I can't speak to the realism.
<BR>
<BR>An antiwar feeling? Yes, I suppose, in that war is a waste of lives. But seemed to me that there was a strong theme of "Some things are worth fighting for" but the weapons needn't be swords or guns.
<BR>
<BR>I loved Eddi as the protaganist/hero who was able to ask for and receive help while not losing her position as the leader.
<BR>
<BR>This is my first time in this discussion group and I'm looking forward to the responses.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks!
<BR>
<BR>Lou</FONT></HTML>

--part1_11d.8612e89.293d7da1_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:16:58 -0800
Reply-To:     publicity@mystgalaxy.com
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Maryelizabeth Hart <publicity@MYSTGALAXY.COM>
Organization: Mysterious Galaxy
Subject:      Emma Bull
Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
          <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

her pretty sparse home page

http://homepage.mac.com/emmawill/

Maryelizabeth



--
*******************************************************************
Mysterious Galaxy Books                   Local Phone: 858.268.4747
7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302           Fax: 858.268.4775
San Diego, CA 92111            Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747
http://www.mystgalaxy.com    General Email:
mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com

*******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:19:43 -0800
Reply-To:     publicity@mystgalaxy.com
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Maryelizabeth Hart <publicity@MYSTGALAXY.COM>
Organization: Mysterious Galaxy
Subject:      SKIN FOLK by Nalo Hopkinson
Comments: To: Fem-SF <FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Info about Nalo's new book, and a short story available on line

http://www.twbookmark.com/books/92/0446678031/index.html

Maryelizabeth



--
*******************************************************************
Mysterious Galaxy Books                   Local Phone: 858.268.4747
7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302           Fax: 858.268.4775
San Diego, CA 92111            Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747
http://www.mystgalaxy.com    General Email:
mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com

*******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:49:38 -0500
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Rose Reith <rreith@RACORES.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: [broaduniverse] Adding SF to the OED...
Comments: To: feministsf@UIC.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hi,
Just got this on another list -
This site  might be helpful, and it certainly is interesting, in the
quest for science fiction ideas becoming reality - at least as far as
how old the sf ideas are...

Rose


>
>
>
>I'm not quite this much of a word-geek, but I suspect some of y'all
>are...enjoy!
>
>http://66.108.177.107/SF/sf_citations.shtml
>
>"This page is a pilot effort for the Oxford English Dictionary, in which
>the words associated with a special field of interest are collected so
>that knowledgable aficionados can help the OED find useful examples of
>these words. This, our first project, is science fiction literature."
>
>  - Mary Anne
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mary Anne Mohanraj (http://www.mamohanraj.com)
>Editor-in-Chief:  Strange Horizons (http://www.strangehorizons.com)
>Founding Editor:    Clean Sheets (http://www.cleansheets.com)
>
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
>See What You've Been Missing!
>Amazing Wireless Video Camera.
>Click here
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/75YKVC/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/_nkqlB/TM
>---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>broaduniverse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
'As a woman I have no country. As a woman my country is the whole world.'
  Virginia Woolf
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Dec 2001 23:14:52 -0500
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         "Janice E. Dawley" <jdawley@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
Subject:      BDG: War for the Oaks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

This message is very, very long. I apologize to any who find me tedious. My
excuse is that I absolutely love this book.

Terri asked:
 >A few questions... Did you find the human characters, the Seelie,
 >and Unseelie believable?

In general, yes. However, it did seem a little strange that it was so
easy for Eddi and the other human characters to come to grips with the
existence of Faerie beings and magic. None of them seriously wondered
if they were going crazy? One phouka transformation and it all made
sense suddenly? Not likely. But I didn't really care, because that
level of psychological realism didn't seem to be the point of the book.
What bothered me a little more was the question of why the Seelie and
Unseelie Courts decided to bind mortals so they could kill one another.
If Eddi's duel with the Dark Queen served the same purpose,
couldn't they have arranged something like it *before* there were so
many deaths? I wonder if this is what they call a "maguffin"? A
situation that drives the plot, but turns out to be much less
interesting or comprehensible than other elements of the story?

 >Who did you consider to be the most likable?

The phouka, of course. Clever, funny, a unique fashion sense. And
there's something weirdly appealing about a man with no name.

 >The most despicable?

Stuart was the most pathetically nasty, but I didn't feel I knew him
well enough to despise him. And I give him extra credit for coming
up with a hilariously bad band name: InKline Plain.

 >How did you feel about the various battle scenes?

They seemed a bit too brief. Like they were supposed to convey a "war
is hell "feeling, but didn't have enough heft to pull it off. But once
again, to go into it too much would have skewed the tone of the book,
I think.

 >Did others get the feeling War for the Oaks had a bit of an anti war
 >statement to it?

I suppose so, but I don't feel it was that important in the scheme of
things.

So what was important to me? A lot, actually. There's a unique
chemistry in this book that makes it, at least for me, a revelatory,
life-affirming, read again and again experience. I see the clunky bits,
but because *War for the Oaks* does some other things *so well*, I can
overlook the weaknesses.

The City. I once received a survey that asked, "What is most important
to you: what you are doing, who you're with, or where you are?" I
thought it was a bizarre question, but upon reflection realized that I
could actually answer it -- I'm a "where" person. The place I live
informs my sense of self in a profound way that I don't fully
understand, but *want* to understand, perhaps after a life's work of
bonding with and truly knowing a single landscape, a single town. When
I read *War for the Oaks*, I could feel the author's bond with
Minneapolis in her descriptions of the streets, the clubs, the rivers
and lakes. She's no tourist -- she knows and loves that city, and not
in a falsely nostalgic or sentimental way. That's rare, and valuable,
to me.

The Music. Where would we be without it? And why don't writers talk
about it more? Maybe they just don't have the experience, don't know
the words. Maybe they just aren't as affected by music as I am. Or
maybe I'm not reading the right books. In any case, I love Bull's focus
on music. The bad gig at the beginning, the auditions, the exhilaration
of playing with an outstanding band, even the set lists and chapter
names (did everyone notice that they were all song titles?). And the
account of the final performance came about as close, visually, to
describing the transcendent experience some songs and performances can
be as I've ever read.

Of course, it can't hurt that Bull and I like some of the same music.
Boiled in Lead is a real band, in case anyone is curious. I finally
ordered their collection "Alloy" a few months ago and loved it. And
Emma Bull has her own band, The Flash Girls, which, though pretty much
history, did come out with a new CD recently (before she broke her
elbows). Good stuff.

The Friends. Eddi's final victory would be impossible without them.
Carla and Dan are the loyal support system that anchors Eddi in this
world, and damn fine musicians to boot. But there are three special
friendships that stand out for me.

Eddi's relationship with Willy is first played as swept-off-your-feet
romance, but in surprisingly short order that's over with and they move
on to something more interesting. Over the years I've heard a lot of
jokes about people breaking up and speaking the deadly words, "We can
still be friends." Willy even makes one. But in my experience
friendship and romance are a lot more closely tied than the
conventional wisdom would have it, and it really is possible for a
relationship to change from one to the other (in either direction) or be
some weird combination of the two. I liked seeing that in this book, and it
made Willy's death all the more sad.

Hedge is a really odd fellow, and his connection with Eddi intrigued
me. In a way, Eddi is his mentor. She encourages him, makes him feel safe,
and slowly draws him out of his apathetic sullen-teenager persona. But he
has his own power too. I love the descriptions of his bass-playing. Bass is
the foundation that most rock music is built on, the little-appreciated but
crucial instrument that keeps the groove on. And Hedge is a fey embodiment
of that principle. He's not showy, but without him on her side, Eddi can't win.

And then there's Hairy Meg, the brownie. So many members of the Seelie
Court are described as beautiful, but Meg is the opposite. She's
"profoundly ugly", and one of the most valuable friends Eddi could
make. She could have come across as a laughable eccentric, but instead she
has dignity (despite lack of clothes), she's powerful, and she's profoundly
respected, even among the high-born Sidhe. A truly wonderful crone.

The Romance. This is the book's biggest strength. I won't mince words --
this is my favorite romance ever. We've argued before on this list
about the worth of the romance genre. For my part, I have never read (or
wanted to read) a Harlequin, but have always been interested in the
conventions and execution of romance elements in the books I have read. It's
very easy for an author to put a foot wrong (at least in my estimation), to
be too predictable or too sudden, too boring, too pornographic, or too
sexist. *War for the Oaks* makes none of those mistakes.

The phouka is Good Company from the beginning, for the reader, if not Eddi.
Eddi's interlude with Willy poses a strong contrast to her relationship with
the phouka and adds more spice and complication to the whole. There's plenty
of buildup, just as in real life. (People don't suddenly realize they are
attracted to one another, then immediately fall into one another's arms.
They check each other out first.) There's no shame about the attraction or
the sex; they're both ready, whole-hearted and loving. The level of tension
and detail is perfect. And, unusually, the point of view is entirely Eddi's
as actor and observer. It never ceases to amaze me how romantic scenes,
often written by women, treat the viewpoint characters (usually also women)
as objects, to be acted upon by the male principle. Maybe I am in the tiny
minority and I just don't know it, but this has always frustrated me. At
times, when the strangely common rape imagery makes an appearance, it really
pisses me off. This book presents a healthy heterosexual alternative. It's
not man vs. woman. It's not man making woman whole. The relationship isn't
presented as being about NEEDS at all. It's about two people who genuinely
respect each other, enjoy one another's company tremendously, and get to
have great sex into the happily ever after. Wish fulfillment? Sure thing.
And I love it.

What about you?

-----
Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT
http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/
Listening to: Tool -- Lateralus
"...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected;
the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and
servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:03:19 -0500
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Dave Belden <davebelden@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: BDG: War for the Oaks
Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
          <feministsf-lit@uic.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <5.1.0.14.2.20011205195323.00a94ec0@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

No problem with the length, for me anyway - I really enjoyed your thoughts,
having just finished the book.

Agreed about the music especially. It would take a musician to write this
well about making music, and how often have I read fiction that does that
this well, or half this well, with any kind of music? In fact, I'd like
people to name any novel that competes. (The closest I can get to it is
movies like Amadeus, but that's cheating - they play the music in the
movie).

I really liked the mix of realism with fantasy. The realism is about a
place, yes, and a specific time (nailed down by the music more than
anything), and a subculture. These are not precisely my own
time/place/culture, but I somehow had the same pleasure in reading them as
if they had been - which is a particular pleasure indeed, and quite
different from the pleasure of being introduced into some alien culture. I
guess it was close enough to my experience, though most of the songs I
didn't know, and I've never been to Minneapolis. But I loved that Bull was
claiming faerie for her generation and place, she was making it her own,
(and all of ours) not Tolkien's or some distant medieval link to the
present: the faeries wore modern dress, they played modern music, they liked
electricity (though not cars). And Eddi became a powerful purveyor of magic
while being in every way a modern woman (e.g. I really liked Janice's
comments below on the romance between equals). So there was really nothing
in the book that was hankering after a simpler, more pastoral time. I loved
that the Phouka wanted to democratize the old Faerie class structure. This
was one of the most original ideas in the book, to me. So much of fantasy
writing is a rejection of the modern industrial world, part of a romantic
elevation of the old times... usually rather easily forgetting that those
were the times when a horrifying percentage of women died in childbirth,
maybe a third of babies didn't reach one year old, agricultural labor was
back-breaking and life short etc. Science fiction, of course, has often
celebrated the modern, or when it has excoriated it, has rarely seen the
pre-modern as that much rosier. If the whole appeal of fantasy has been
bound up with nostalgia for pre-modern consciousness, where does this put
Bull's book? I don't know, but I like it: that's what's new about it, to me,
that she's in love with the modern city.

War For The Oaks does not have as completely new a set of characters and
concepts as Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy, which I find to be the
most inventive and exciting fantasy I've read in a very long time. It isn't
as ambitious in the ideas it raises. It does after all deal with the trad
faerie figures. But it's in there with the best of the books that are
remaking what fantasy is. I suppose this connects with magic realism...

One nitpick. If this is trad European paganism transported to America, what
happened to the other trad cultures now in America? The band has a black
guy, but where are the African pagan spiritfolk? The Native American spirit
people? Too complicated, maybe, to do it, to combine pantheons? It's
Minneapolis, after all, not New Orleans? It would have worked better for me,
all the same, if it had been set in Glasgow, for that reason - not that
Scotland lacks its immigrants now either...

Dave

Dave Belden
web page: www.davidbelden.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
[mailto:feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Janice E. Dawley
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:15 PM
To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU
Subject: [*FSF-L*] BDG: War for the Oaks


This message is very, very long. I apologize to any who find me tedious. My
excuse is that I absolutely love this book.

Terri asked:
 >A few questions... Did you find the human characters, the Seelie,
 >and Unseelie believable?

In general, yes. However, it did seem a little strange that it was so
easy for Eddi and the other human characters to come to grips with the
existence of Faerie beings and magic. None of them seriously wondered
if they were going crazy? One phouka transformation and it all made
sense suddenly? Not likely. But I didn't really care, because that
level of psychological realism didn't seem to be the point of the book.
What bothered me a little more was the question of why the Seelie and
Unseelie Courts decided to bind mortals so they could kill one another.
If Eddi's duel with the Dark Queen served the same purpose,
couldn't they have arranged something like it *before* there were so
many deaths? I wonder if this is what they call a "maguffin"? A
situation that drives the plot, but turns out to be much less
interesting or comprehensible than other elements of the story?

 >Who did you consider to be the most likable?

The phouka, of course. Clever, funny, a unique fashion sense. And
there's something weirdly appealing about a man with no name.

 >The most despicable?

Stuart was the most pathetically nasty, but I didn't feel I knew him
well enough to despise him. And I give him extra credit for coming
up with a hilariously bad band name: InKline Plain.

 >How did you feel about the various battle scenes?

They seemed a bit too brief. Like they were supposed to convey a "war
is hell "feeling, but didn't have enough heft to pull it off. But once
again, to go into it too much would have skewed the tone of the book,
I think.

 >Did others get the feeling War for the Oaks had a bit of an anti war
 >statement to it?

I suppose so, but I don't feel it was that important in the scheme of
things.

So what was important to me? A lot, actually. There's a unique
chemistry in this book that makes it, at least for me, a revelatory,
life-affirming, read again and again experience. I see the clunky bits,
but because *War for the Oaks* does some other things *so well*, I can
overlook the weaknesses.

The City. I once received a survey that asked, "What is most important
to you: what you are doing, who you're with, or where you are?" I
thought it was a bizarre question, but upon reflection realized that I
could actually answer it -- I'm a "where" person. The place I live
informs my sense of self in a profound way that I don't fully
understand, but *want* to understand, perhaps after a life's work of
bonding with and truly knowing a single landscape, a single town. When
I read *War for the Oaks*, I could feel the author's bond with
Minneapolis in her descriptions of the streets, the clubs, the rivers
and lakes. She's no tourist -- she knows and loves that city, and not
in a falsely nostalgic or sentimental way. That's rare, and valuable,
to me.

The Music. Where would we be without it? And why don't writers talk
about it more? Maybe they just don't have the experience, don't know
the words. Maybe they just aren't as affected by music as I am. Or
maybe I'm not reading the right books. In any case, I love Bull's focus
on music. The bad gig at the beginning, the auditions, the exhilaration
of playing with an outstanding band, even the set lists and chapter
names (did everyone notice that they were all song titles?). And the
account of the final performance came about as close, visually, to
describing the transcendent experience some songs and performances can
be as I've ever read.

Of course, it can't hurt that Bull and I like some of the same music.
Boiled in Lead is a real band, in case anyone is curious. I finally
ordered their collection "Alloy" a few months ago and loved it. And
Emma Bull has her own band, The Flash Girls, which, though pretty much
history, did come out with a new CD recently (before she broke her
elbows). Good stuff.

The Friends. Eddi's final victory would be impossible without them.
Carla and Dan are the loyal support system that anchors Eddi in this
world, and damn fine musicians to boot. But there are three special
friendships that stand out for me.

Eddi's relationship with Willy is first played as swept-off-your-feet
romance, but in surprisingly short order that's over with and they move
on to something more interesting. Over the years I've heard a lot of
jokes about people breaking up and speaking the deadly words, "We can
still be friends." Willy even makes one. But in my experience
friendship and romance are a lot more closely tied than the
conventional wisdom would have it, and it really is possible for a
relationship to change from one to the other (in either direction) or be
some weird combination of the two. I liked seeing that in this book, and it
made Willy's death all the more sad.

Hedge is a really odd fellow, and his connection with Eddi intrigued
me. In a way, Eddi is his mentor. She encourages him, makes him feel safe,
and slowly draws him out of his apathetic sullen-teenager persona. But he
has his own power too. I love the descriptions of his bass-playing. Bass is
the foundation that most rock music is built on, the little-appreciated but
crucial instrument that keeps the groove on. And Hedge is a fey embodiment
of that principle. He's not showy, but without him on her side, Eddi can't
win.

And then there's Hairy Meg, the brownie. So many members of the Seelie
Court are described as beautiful, but Meg is the opposite. She's
"profoundly ugly", and one of the most valuable friends Eddi could
make. She could have come across as a laughable eccentric, but instead she
has dignity (despite lack of clothes), she's powerful, and she's profoundly
respected, even among the high-born Sidhe. A truly wonderful crone.

The Romance. This is the book's biggest strength. I won't mince words --
this is my favorite romance ever. We've argued before on this list
about the worth of the romance genre. For my part, I have never read (or
wanted to read) a Harlequin, but have always been interested in the
conventions and execution of romance elements in the books I have read. It's
very easy for an author to put a foot wrong (at least in my estimation), to
be too predictable or too sudden, too boring, too pornographic, or too
sexist. *War for the Oaks* makes none of those mistakes.

The phouka is Good Company from the beginning, for the reader, if not Eddi.
Eddi's interlude with Willy poses a strong contrast to her relationship with
the phouka and adds more spice and complication to the whole. There's plenty
of buildup, just as in real life. (People don't suddenly realize they are
attracted to one another, then immediately fall into one another's arms.
They check each other out first.) There's no shame about the attraction or
the sex; they're both ready, whole-hearted and loving. The level of tension
and detail is perfect. And, unusually, the point of view is entirely Eddi's
as actor and observer. It never ceases to amaze me how romantic scenes,
often written by women, treat the viewpoint characters (usually also women)
as objects, to be acted upon by the male principle. Maybe I am in the tiny
minority and I just don't know it, but this has always frustrated me. At
times, when the strangely common rape imagery makes an appearance, it really
pisses me off. This book presents a healthy heterosexual alternative. It's
not man vs. woman. It's not man making woman whole. The relationship isn't
presented as being about NEEDS at all. It's about two people who genuinely
respect each other, enjoy one another's company tremendously, and get to
have great sex into the happily ever after. Wish fulfillment? Sure thing.
And I love it.

What about you?

-----
Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT
http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/
Listening to: Tool -- Lateralus
"...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected;
the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and
servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:16:42 EST
Reply-To:     Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
Sender:       Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC
              <feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU>
From:         Lou Hoffman <Louhq@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: BDG: War for the Oaks
Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="part1_29.1f122ec7.2942d20a_boundary"

--part1_29.1f122ec7.2942d20a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For a more diverse intergration of mythos (mythi?) try Emma's "Bone Dance".

Lou

--part1_29.1f122ec7.2942d20a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  SIZE=2>For a more diverse intergration of mythos (mythi?) try Emma's "Bone Dance".
<BR>
<BR>Lou</FONT></HTML>

--part1_29.1f122ec7.2942d20a_boundary--