From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:53:21 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:38:48 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0112D" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:16:40 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: War for the Oaks Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The month is nearly over, but I've been wanting to respond to a couple of messages in this discussion for weeks. Now I have time, so here goes... At 02:03 PM 12/7/01 -0500, Dave Belden wrote: >It would take a musician to write this well about making music, and >how often have I read fiction that does that this well, or half >this well, with any kind of music? In fact, I'd like people to name >any novel that competes. I second Diane's recommendation of McCaffrey's *Dragonsong* and *Dragonsinger*. The main character of those books needs to make music so badly that she is willing to risk corporal punishment and ostracism to do it -- very inspiring for teenagers trying to find some way to remain true to themselves. I agree also about *Very Far Away from Anywhere Else*, but more about that in another message. Another children's book I remember being very moved by was Virginia Euwer Wolff's *The Mozart Season*, an account of a few months in the life of a 12-year-old violinist. Adult books I can think of include Charles de Lint's *The Little Country* and... not much else. Ellen Kushner, Delia Sherman and Donald Keller edited an anthology of stories with musical elements entitled *The Horns of Elfland*, but I have not read it. >War For The Oaks does not have as completely new a set of characters and >concepts as Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy, which I find to be the >most inventive and exciting fantasy I've read in a very long time. It isn't >as ambitious in the ideas it raises. It does after all deal with the trad >faerie figures. But it's in there with the best of the books that are >remaking what fantasy is. I suppose this connects with magic realism... I love "His Dark Materials"! I agree, it's much more philosophical and daring than *War for the Oaks*, but then again, I think they were trying for very different things. Bull's book strikes me as a love letter to Minneapolis, a statement about the power of music, and a romance all wrapped up in a realistic novel masquerading as a fantasy. To me, the fantasy elements seem forced, but the rest of it is done so well that the uneasy fit doesn't bother me. In this way, it reminds me strongly of Pamela Dean's novel *Tam Lin*, another novel I love (which, incidentally, is also set in Minnesota -- what is it about that state? maybe I should visit). By contrast, Pullman takes on the Anglican church and oppressive Christianity in general -- he, in the spirit of Blake, is "of the Devil's party", republican (in the old sense), pro-sex, feminist, a radical in many ways. But I get the sense that he is spoiling for a fight in a way that has perhaps harmed his fiction. I was a bit disappointed in *The Amber Spyglass*, though I certainly respect it. What do you think of it? >One nitpick. If this is trad European paganism transported to America, what >happened to the other trad cultures now in America? The band has a black >guy, but where are the African pagan spiritfolk? The Native American spirit >people? Too complicated, maybe, to do it, to combine pantheons? It's >Minneapolis, after all, not New Orleans? It would have worked better for me, >all the same, if it had been set in Glasgow, for that reason - not that >Scotland lacks its immigrants now either... This is an interesting question. The only Native American character I remember in the book was the sassy girl who lived next door to the motorcycle salesman. Maybe it was intentional on Bull's part? An indication of how few indigenous people are left in North America? Quite a few fantasy books and computer games I've seen have incorporated the principle that the fewer believers a particular god can claim, the less powerful and well known that god will be. This could be a sad statement about genocide and European colonialism ...or it could be an oversight on the author's part. In any case, as others have mentioned, *Bone Dance* and *American Gods* take different approaches to similar material. Charles de Lint's *Moonheart* and Terri Windling's *The Wood Wife* do also. Thanks for a thoughtful message! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: A Perfect Circle -- Mer de Noms "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:46:25 -0800 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Emma Bull Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those in Southern California or its vicinity in late February 2002: Emma Bull and Will Shetterly are the Guests of Honor at ConDor IX http://www.condorcon.org/ Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:10:15 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: War for the Oaks -- Addendum Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20011227183452.03f26ae0@mailbox.bellatlantic.ne t> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:16 PM 12/27/01 -0500, I wrote: >In any case, as others have mentioned, *Bone Dance* and *American Gods* >take different approaches to similar material. Charles de Lint's >*Moonheart* and Terri Windling's *The Wood Wife* do also. I forgot another interesting take on urban North American gods (in this case, orisha) -- Nalo Hopkinson's *Brown Girl in the Ring*, set in a future Toronto. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: A Perfect Circle -- Mer de Noms "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:36:05 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG: War for the Oaks & Very Far Away from Anywhere Else In-Reply-To: <3C164F68.3078.1038DE1@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:24 PM 12/11/01 +0100, Diane Severson wrote: >I just remembered a pretty corny young adult >romance that Ursula LeGuin wrote, "Very Far From Anywhere >Else". The way she writes about the girl's relationship to music >rings very true for me. That shows what a fabulous writer LeGuin >is, because I don't think she is a musician. This is another of my very favorite books. I've read it more times than any other Le Guin book, which is saying something, as she's one of my favorite authors, and my shelves are laden with her works. I'd be interested to hear why you thought it was corny. In my opinion, it's the farthest thing from it! It's written in the first person, in a conversational style that's quite different from Le Guin's usual approach, but that I think works marvelously to convey the point of view of a bright, funny seventeen year old boy. Like many teenagers, he feels alienated from his parents and most of his peers. His friendship with the young violinist is a romance; it is also a place where he can work out some of the doubts and existential angst he faces as he ends high school and wonders what to do with the rest of his life. It's a "coming of age" story, but it deals with the same issues of balance and right action as many of Le Guin's other works. The main character's crisis, in fact, is his forcing of the friendship into a "Man Plus Woman Equals Sex" model, a model that most romances take for granted. Their relationship is nearly ended because of it. So in a way, this book is an anti-romance. But once things are brought back into balance, they *do* become a romantic couple. Perhaps the right term for it is a revisionist romance. It says some important things about the necessity of true friendship, the recognition of common humanity beyond gender in romance. But I think it's interesting that the main character's moment of crisis is presented explicitly in sexual terms -- he "loses himself", "drowns" in arousal -- and this is a *bad* thing. In contrast, when Eddi is with the phouka, "her thoughts were blurred and broken [...] all her senses failed in light and darkness" -- and this is a very *good* thing. *Very Far Away from Anywhere Else* is a young adult book, which might explain the approach to sexuality. But I've found that almost all of Le Guin's work exhibits this same tension. She clearly approves of romance, but it is usually romance drained of any real sexual tension. It is about mind and spirit, not body. As a feminist, I understand suspicion about the role of sexuality and the possibility of objectification in male/female relations. Le Guin has written some very moving material about these issues. But even when she is trying to be positive about sexuality, I often feel that she doesn't whole-heartedly believe in what she is doing. *War for the Oaks* is a very different beast, and as I said before, that's one of the things I like about it so much. Eddi's sex life is perhaps unrealistically rewarding and free of problems (though she's angry at Willy when she learns that he used his faerie mojo on her, she never appears to regret their tryst), but it's a rare and refreshing portrayal in a sea of literature that often shows sexuality to be dangerous or degrading for women. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: A Perfect Circle -- Mer de Noms "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick