Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0201D" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:29:36 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Dave Belden Subject: Re: BDG: A WOMAN'S LIBERATION Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <200201200320.VAA41994@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Janice, you wrote: > > It all makes sense when you know that nearly all of Le Guin's SF is set in > the milieu of the Ekumen, a sort of galactic federation of immense age > whose base is on the planet Hain.... This was very helpful to me in explaining Le Guin's mechanics - how she set up a future history to give her free range for creating any kind of society she wanted. You went on: > This sounds like a critique of much SF that assumes the future will be white, male, and capitalist -- and > it is -- but more fundamentally I think it is a critique of anthropological > models that were discredited in her father's day but have continued to > haunt the Western imagination. This was very interesting to me too. I haven't read much anthropology. Would like to know more of what you are talking about: models that ascribe a certain kind of social structure too rigidly to a certain technological level? Le Guin has a beautiful mix of understanding sociology, while presenting her different sociological possibilities to us through the prism of character and story. This may be the perfect way to introduce modern Americans, raised in a highly individualistic culture, to the effects of culture and society on the individual. I wrote: > > >I^Òm interested in why writers who could and do make it in mainstream > >novels, turn to science fiction. You replied: > I'm curious what mainstream authors you mean when you say this. > You seem to be (and please correct me if I am wrong) talking about Le Guin, > Russell and Atwood -- a diverse bunch whose approaches to the genre are quite > different. Le Guin has always written realistic fiction, fantasy > and SF and actively resists being pigeonholed. Russell is a newcomer with just two > books to her credit, both SF. Can she be called a mainstream writer when > she hasn't written any mainstream books? Or are you saying she *could* > write mainstream if she wanted to? If so, couldn't the same be said of any > number of SF authors? As for Atwood, I've heard that she denies *The > Handmaid's Tale* is SF, preferring to call it a "dystopia". > Presumably that avoids damaging genre associations and puts her in the company of > acknowledged classics like *1984* and *Brave New World*. As time > goes on, I feel more and more that genre distinctions are largely about > industry politics and marketing, not about the works themselves. > Mainstream is assumed to be the genre anyone would write in if they could -- there's > more money, more prestige, etc -- and SF is for untalented hacks > and "message" fiction. I know that is not what you are saying, but I do > wonder why you have placed these two genres (and I do think > "mainstream" is a genre) in juxtaposition this way. What I meant was, as you say, that 'mainstream' gets better press, money, prestige and so it becomes a question why authors who are successful there turn to sf. I'm sorry to hear that Atwood won't claim the sf genre word for her book. Doris Lessing was somewhat the same - she didn't like 'science fiction' for her series, but came up with 'space fiction' instead: so maybe less based on rejecting sf for its genre reputation, than for the word 'science'; which to me sounded pedantic of her - I don't know what she was really after there. I was thinking also of Huxley, Orwell, C.S. Lewis, Naomi Mitchison (Memoirs of a Spacewoman), George Bernard Shaw (Back to Methuselah), Cecilia Holland. (Shall we add Shakespeare to the list, for the Tempest?). Why include Mary Doria Russell? Mmm. Maybe I'm guilty of what you suspect there - of thinking that "she *could* write mainstream if she wanted to" - but I think it was more because she introduced herself as a non-science fiction writer turning to sf for what it could do for her project, and her next project is a historical thriller about Jews caught in the Nazi occupation of Genoa. So she's just a writer, not an sf writer. (I duck, as missiles come flying in). I too would like to get rid of the genre thing - I am astonished that some people claim that Brave New World is not science fiction, because it's a classic novel written by a non-sf-genre writer. Clearly publishers have found genre a good shorthand way to market stories (especially poor quality stories that couldn't make it otherwise?), and clearly lots of readers and fans like it that way - it gives them an identity to gather around. But clearly also some publishers know that they had best put different covers on some sf novels that they think can reach a wider audience: look at Russell's covers, or the Handmaid's Tale: both say 'a novel of general interest.' It's partly the fans' fault that they have created such a ghetto, that publishers and writers have to distance themselves from it to get a wider sale. Is 'mainstream' a genre? Yes of course, in one way. I think I was half using it for something else, though, which is really indefensible of me, but I want a word for it: and really it is a word for what 'mainstream' claims to be but isn't: the novels that genuinely attempt - and succeed! - in illuminating the human condition. Of course we know that lots of sf does that (as does much detective or historical fiction) , even that in some ways sf deals with massive moral / philosophical / socio-political and other questions better than most 'mainstream' fiction which has narrowed its focus and scope disastrously since Dostoevesky, Balzac and co. I want best of the last century lists that ignore genre altogether. But look at the debates over The Lord of the Rings, and whether its literature or not? Ah! Literature. I was forgetting that word. How much feminist sf would anyone put under the heading: Literature? Or is that not a feminist question? Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: A WOMAN'S LIBERATION Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <3C46FE51.37F0BB6C@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:39 AM 1/17/02 -0800, Sandy Cronin wrote: >I think July Ward interested me the most. I'd just finished reading >"Passage", by Connie Willis, also featuring a maze of a hospital, so it >was hard for it not to bring up associations from that, but I also >thought the very idea of a July Ward was intriguing. I lived in a house >with a couple residents for a year or so, back in college, and I've >always thought it was horrible how brutal their schedules are, and every >once in a while I ruminate over how best to overhaul the medical system >in this country; this story brought another aspect into that, as well. If you enjoyed "The July Ward", you might want to check out Sharon Farber's (S.N. Dyer is a pseudonym) "Tales of Adventure and Medical Life", which was a regular feature of the fanzine *Mimosa* for several years. I found their web site at http://www.jophan.org/mimosa/. Very interesting -- and funny. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Jory Nash -- One Way Down "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:34:28 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG Nomination Time! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello, all -- Time has flown! After *A Woman's Liberation*, *Illicit Passage* is the final book on our current roster, which means we need to choose another four months' worth of books for discussion. We have from now until next Thursday (Jan. 31) to send nominations to the list. The nomination period will then be closed and we will have a week (Feb. 1 to Feb. 7) to consider the list of books and send our votes to Terri Wakefield (terrierg@maine.rr.com). There will be more information on the voting process as the time approaches. To make it clear, you can nominate as many books as you want for discussion (the rule used to be one nomination per person) -- just make sure the books haven't been previously selected for the BDG (list included at the end of this mail), are available in paperback (in the US), and that all pertinent info on each book is included in your nomination message. That means: - author - title - publisher - list price - ISBN For example: Nalo Hopkinson: Brown Girl in the Ring. (July 1998). Warner Books; ISBN: 0446674338, List Price: $12.99 The more general nomination rules are as follows (quoted from the BDG web site at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/): During the nomination period (announced on the FeministSF-Lit list) list members can nominate any feminist "speculative fiction" book. Nominated books can include novels or short story collections and can be any flavor of SF such as science fiction, fantasy, utopian fiction, alternative history, etc. but should not include critical essays. If you nominate a short story collection, be sure to specify which stories in particular you think the group should discuss. It is recommended that the first book in a series is nominated. When a sequel is nominated after all, the nominator should offer information on whether the later book is comprehensible without reading the prequel(s). When you nominate a book, it's important to include a description of why you feel the group should select it. The description will be included in the nominated books list on this web site to help members decide which books to vote for. Books may be recent or "classic", but they must all be available in mass market or trade paperback in order to keep the price within everybody's range. This unfortunately eliminates the out-of-print or very new books, but there's still plenty of great material that qualifies. Please confirm the availability of any title before nominating it by contacting Maryelizabeth at Mysterious Galaxy (www.mystgalaxy.com) or by looking it up on Amazon.com. During the nomination period, you can nominate as many books as you like by sending email to the FeministSF-Lit list with "BDG Nomination" in the subject line. Please include relevant information like publisher, ISBN and list price in your nomination. A volunteer collects the nominations daily during the nomination period and updates the nomination list on this web site. If a person nominates more than one book, or if the nomination doesn't include full information or does not appear to be available for purchase, the volunteer will return the nomination e-mail. Members vote for four books each, and the four books receiving the most votes are read and discussed for the next four months. If multiple works by a single author are nominated, all votes for that author's works are counted together; if the total votes for the author's works are among the four highest, then the book by that author with the most votes is selected for discussion. Nominations are open for one week, and then voting is open for a week. Nominators of books finally selected are expected to kick-off the discussion when their books are due for discussion. Nominators can do this any way they want but it should be more than the sentence 'the BDG discussion on book XYZ is opened'. Tell us what you liked or disliked about the book, list and/or quote on- and offline reviews, list similarities to other books, say which character impressed you most, etc. We will contact successful nominators before we fix the BDG schedule so that we can take their time constraints into account. Book discussion titles may be purchased anywhere or borrowed from the library -- we recommend supporting your local independent feminist or SF bookseller. For those without such resources, Mysterious Galaxy offers a 15% discount on book discussion titles. ----- There you have it! As nominations proceed I will occasionally send status messages to the list, but if you want to check what has been nominated at the web site, I will be updating a page at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/bdg_nom_0201.htm at least once daily. Looking forward to your input... -- Janice, for the BDG volunteers List of previously discussed books: Ammonite, by Nicola Griffith Dreamsnake, by Vonda McIntyre Halfway Human, by Carolyn Ives Gilman The Mists of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley Alien Influences, by Kristine Kathryn Rusch Black Wine, by Candas Jane Dorsey Shadow Man, by Melissa Scott The Snow Queen, by Joan D. Vinge The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell Brown Girl in the Ring, by Nalo Hopkinson The Female Man, by Joanna Russ A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, by Ursula K. Le Guin Jaran, by Kate Elliott Grass, by Sheri S. Tepper Slow River, by Nicola Griffith To Say Nothing of the Dog, by Connie Willis Wild Seed, by Octavia Butler The Slave and the Free, by Suzy McKee Charnas Ring of Swords, by Eleanor Arnason The Mistress of Spices, by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni Flying Cups and Saucers, eds. Debbie Notkin et al. Briar Rose, by Jane Yolen Dawn, by Octavia Butler The Dazzle of Day, by Molly Gloss Remnant Population, by Elizabeth Moon The Gilda Stories, by Jewelle Gomez Kissing the Witch, by Emma Donoghue Not of Woman Born, ed. Constance Ash Singer from the Sea, by Sheri S. Tepper A Secret History: The Book of Ash 1, by Mary Gentle Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, by Gregory Maguire Nights at the Circus, by Angela Carter The Conqueror's Child, by Suzy McKee Charnas The Terrorists of Irustan, by Louise Marley The Northern Girl, by Elizabeth A. Lynn The Moon and the Sun, by Vonda McIntyre Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress Always Coming Home, by Ursula K. Le Guin Brain Plague, by Joan Slonczewski The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse, by Keith Hartman The Fortunate Fall, by Raphael Carter The Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood War for the Oaks, by Emma Bull Current discussion: A Woman's Liberation, eds. Connie Willis and Sheila Williams Upcoming in February: Illicit Passage, by Alice Nunn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:04:02 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG Nomination Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" AS soon as I realized Molly Gloss had new(er) book that _The Dazzle of Day_ I knew I needed to nominate it so I can justify reading it, when I have so much else to read!! So.. I nominate Molly Gloss _Wild Life_ Houghtom Mifflin, 2001, ISBN 0618131574. Costs $13 Gloss is such an amazing writer, I would read her without knowing anything about the book--but here is some info: One of the many pleasures of Molly Gloss's extraordinary third novel is watching it repeatedly change shape and direction before your eyes--a feat all the more wonderful since the narrative consists almost entirely of the fictional diaries of one woman. Charlotte Bridger Drummond--an early-20th-century single mother who supports five young sons in the just-tamed wilderness fringe of western Oregon by writing pulp fiction--presents herself as a bluff, free-thinking feminist, the kind of woman who would tumble her youngest son off her lap and onto the floor for whining. When her housekeeper's frail young granddaughter disappears from a logging camp, Charlotte unhesitatingly sets out to join the inept search parties. So, within 90 pages, Molly Gloss (The Dazzle of Day and The Jump-Off Creek) whisks us from pitch-perfect historical fiction to unsentimental lament over the devastation of the "dark and supernatural woods" of the Pacific Northwest to a kind of wild and woolly mystery story. All of this is immensely engaging, mostly because Charlotte herself is such excellent if occasionally astringent company. But the book really catches fire when Charlotte herself gets lost in the woods. The diary continues through the harrowing days of wet, cold, hunger, hope, despair, and then her fantastic rescue by a band of semihuman giants of the deep woods. Introducing the Sasquatch legend into an otherwise scrupulously realistic historical novel might seem like a risky narrative ploy, but Gloss brilliantly pulls it off. Indeed, so deft is her fusing of the fantastic and the actual that by the end, the narrative transmogrifies once more into a profound and troubling meditation on wildness, nature, and human nature. Wild Life brings to mind the works of Jean M. Auel, Marilynne Robinson, Ken Kesey (that dank Oregon setting of Sometimes a Great Notion), and more distantly Willa Cather--but the breadth and daring of Gloss's imagination really puts it in a class of its own. In a sense, unifying all of the many strands of this fictional tour de force is a fiercely candid portrait of the artist, an artist who in Charlotte's words fears "coming face-to-face with my Self on the printed page--it would chill me through to the heart," but who does it anyway. --David Laskin --This text refers to the Hardcover edition. (From Amazon.com) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:11:15 -0700 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Susan Hericks Subject: Re: BDG Nomination P.s. Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" P.s. Wow! that text is quite a mess! apologies! It didn't look that way before I sent it :( Susan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Hericks [mailto:shericks@PRESCOTT.EDU] Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 7:04 PM To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nomination AS soon as I realized Molly Gloss had new(er) book that _The Dazzle of Day_ I knew I needed to nominate it so I can justify reading it, when I have so much else to read!! So.. I nominate Molly Gloss _Wild Life_ Houghtom Mifflin, 2001, ISBN 0618131574. Costs $13 Gloss is such an amazing writer, I would read her without knowing anything about the book--but here is some info: One of the many pleasures of Molly Gloss's extraordinary third novel is watching it repeatedly change shape and direction before your eyes--a feat all the more wonderful since the narrative consists almost entirely of the fictional diaries of one woman. Charlotte Bridger Drummond--an early-20th-century single mother who supports five young sons in the just-tamed wilderness fringe of western Oregon by writing pulp fiction--presents herself as a bluff, free-thinking feminist, the kind of woman who would tumble her youngest son off her lap and onto the floor for whining. When her housekeeper's frail young granddaughter disappears from a logging camp, Charlotte unhesitatingly sets out to join the inept search parties. So, within 90 pages, Molly Gloss (The Dazzle of Day and The Jump-Off Creek) whisks us from pitch-perfect historical fiction to unsentimental lament over the devastation of the "dark and supernatural woods" of the Pacific Northwest to a kind of wild and woolly mystery story. All of this is immensely engaging, mostly because Charlotte herself is such excellent if occasionally astringent company. But the book really catches fire when Charlotte herself gets lost in the woods. The diary continues through the harrowing days of wet, cold, hunger, hope, despair, and then her fantastic rescue by a band of semihuman giants of the deep woods. Introducing the Sasquatch legend into an otherwise scrupulously realistic historical novel might seem like a risky narrative ploy, but Gloss brilliantly pulls it off. Indeed, so deft is her fusing of the fantastic and the actual that by the end, the narrative transmogrifies once more into a profound and troubling meditation on wildness, nature, and human nature. Wild Life brings to mind the works of Jean M. Auel, Marilynne Robinson, Ken Kesey (that dank Oregon setting of Sometimes a Great Notion), and more distantly Willa Cather--but the breadth and daring of Gloss's imagination really puts it in a class of its own. In a sense, unifying all of the many strands of this fictional tour de force is a fiercely candid portrait of the artist, an artist who in Charlotte's words fears "coming face-to-face with my Self on the printed page--it would chill me through to the heart," but who does it anyway. --David Laskin --This text refers to the Hardcover edition. (From Amazon.com) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:27:38 -0800 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: possible BDG nomination Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just became aware of this, so not sure how feminist it may be... ALICE AT HEART (WATERLILIES ) Deborah Smith (Author) ISBN: 0967303524 Publisher: Bellebooks US SRP: $14.95 US Binding: Paperback Pub Date: January 2002 Annotation: Among the sultry society of coastal Georgia, the Vonavendier family at Sainte's Point Island is considered mysterious, notorious, and extremely odd. Now, simple, plain Alice Riley, an outcast who is far more extraordinary than she ever imagined, is about to find love, kinship, and adventure in the family's amazing world. >From Library Journal Reclusive, wary, and known locally as Odd Alice, orphaned Alice Riley has always known she was different; but it isn't until she saves a child from drowning by using her phenomenal underwater abilities and links minds with drowning salvage diver Griffin Randolf and saves him, too, that her half-sisters learn of her existence, and she discovers how special she and Griffin really are. Old secrets, revenge, and passion fuel this compelling, intricately plotted story of love, trust, and acceptance, which successfully straddles the line between romance and fantasy and should appeal to fans of both genres. Recalling Susan Krinard's werewolf romances, Smith's new work nicely sets the stage for her projected romantic fantasy series, "Water Lilies." Smith (On Bear Mountain) is a respected writer of romances and other types of fiction and lives in Dahlonega, GA. Of course, I could be unduly influenced by the Maxfield Parrish cover... Maryelizabeth I also noticed BLACK CHALICE by Marie Jakobar will finally be more widely available in February... -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:14:54 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: possible BDG nomination In-Reply-To: <3C51A39A.74A450FA@mystgalaxy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:27 AM 1/25/02 -0800, Maryelizabeth wrote: >Just became aware of this, so not sure how feminist it may be... > >ALICE AT HEART (WATERLILIES ) >Deborah Smith (Author) > > ISBN: 0967303524 > Publisher: Bellebooks > US SRP: $14.95 US > Binding: Paperback > Pub Date: January 2002 I'm intrigued by the description of the three older sisters. >I also noticed BLACK CHALICE by Marie Jakobar will finally be more >widely available in February... So... are you nominating it? If so, could you tell us a little more about it? I recall hearing the title before (maybe I read a review online), but I can't remember any details. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Jory Nash -- One Way Down "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:54:49 -0800 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: BLACK CHALICE Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I also noticed BLACK CHALICE by Marie Jakobar will finally be more > >widely available in February... > > So... are you nominating it? If so, could you tell us a little more about > it? I recall hearing the title before (maybe I read a review online), but I > can't remember any details. > I'm not nominating it per se, because I haven't had a real chance to look at it either. Reviews of the hardcover are out on the net for viewing, but I thought someone on this list first brought it to my attention and thought perhaps s/he might speak up ...? :) Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:31:28 -0800 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: BLACK CHALICE Comments: To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU In-Reply-To: <3C52D149.BB5CED57@mystgalaxy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I nominated BLACK CHALICE before it was out in paperback, so it was put on hold till then. Jakober has been writing sf and non-sf for a while; she's a Canadian feminist author who has done some interesting stuff. THE BLACK CHALICE is reminiscent of THE MISTS OF AVALON, in that it takes a mythography (Germanic) and puts a feminist spin on it. Some of the themes -- Christianity, sexual repression -- are the same. I think it would be well worth talking about. The characters are really well done; the sense of place is nice; the plot flows well. It's a good story, and she has some things to say. So, if it's out in paperback at last, then I'll nominate it (or second it). On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > > >I also noticed BLACK CHALICE by Marie Jakobar will finally be more > > >widely available in February... > > > > So... are you nominating it? If so, could you tell us a little more about > > it? I recall hearing the title before (maybe I read a review online), but I > > can't remember any details. > > > > I'm not nominating it per se, because I haven't had a real chance to > look at it either. Reviews of the hardcover are out on the net for > viewing, but I thought someone on this list first brought it to my > attention and thought perhaps s/he might speak up ...? :) > > Maryelizabeth > > > -- > ******************************************************************* > Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 > 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 > San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 > http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: > mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com > > ******************************************************************* > Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:58:01 -0600 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG Nominations I'm nominating two books this time: Pat Murphy: The Falling Woman (August 1993, Tor Books; ISBN: 0312854064) $11.95 >From the back cover: "Elizabeth Butler is an archeologist with a special gift, one that has made her a popular success and has drawn the disapproval of other scientists who suspect her of being less than serious. Elizabeth Butler can see the past. She can see it everywhere around her, present-day vision overlain by the apparitions of long ago. The ghosts Elizabeth sees never speak to her, never appear to see her at all. But one morning in the Yucatan, as Elizabeth watches ghostly Mayan women drawing water from a long-vanished well, one of them turns and speaks to her. For among the ancient Maya, there is one who can see the future. Now the two women are bound together across time -- and as a Mayan Great Cycle draws to a close in both eras, the ancient priestess draws the modern woman closer and closer to madness and tragedy." I'd like to discuss this book not only because of the investigation of women "professionals" of very different eras, but also because of what Murphy may have to say about the role of family in the main character's life. The back cover doesn't mention it, but there is another narrator of the novel: Elizabeth's estranged daughter Diane, who comes looking for her mother after her father's death. Diane's feelings for her mother are the sort normally reserved for absentee fathers in fiction -- an interesting reversal. It's also true that I have owned this book for over ten years but have somehow never read it -- and I do want to, especially after re- reading "Rachel in Love". Note: This novel won the 1987 Nebula Award. ----- Severna Park: The Annunciate (294 pages, Dec. 2001, Eos; ISBN: 0380805022) $6.99 >From Space.com "Imagine a world where everything is networked, where nanotechnological machines propagate in the air, the people, even the nearly empty space between planets. Imagine tapping into that network, able to alter almost anything in the world or access almost any information. Now imagine that you don't have that access and others do, and you'll have your finger on one of the central conflicts in Severna Park's new novel, The Annunciate. The Annunciate tells the story of Eve, Annemarie, and Corey, three fugitives roaming the isolated trinary star system of Threesys -- three is a important number in the book, and shows up in all sorts of places. They're among the last survivors of the Meshed, able to control the rapidly eroding nanotech network of the Mesh with their minds, but hunted by two factions who have wages a successful revolt against their former Meshed masters. Having discovered the secret of a powerful and almost instantly addictive narcotic, Annemarie plans to wage a counter-revolution of her own. By getting the peoples of ThreeSys on hooked on the drug, she plans to bring them back under control before they can finish destroying the Mesh. [...]" - - Chris Aylott >From the Tiptree Award web site (it was on the 2000 shortlist): "A fresh and interesting feminist take on the Garden of Eden myth, with new treatments of the familiar symbols of apple, gate, and garden." >From Sf Site: "[...] So let's review: class struggle (Meshed/Jacked/Jackless), dope pushers and addicts, genocidal vendettas, feminist mythology given full expression, lesbian characters with depth, virtual reality, great sex, and all in under 300 pages. Woooo-hoooo!" -- Thomas Myer The variety of critical comments on this book give the impression that it is pretty complex and fascinating, not to mention disturbing. Seems like good discussion material. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Jory Nash -- One Way Down "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:43:16 +1100 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maire Subject: Re: BDG Nominations Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: <200201262258.QAA35586@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those are 2 great noms, Janice- both books I have on my shelf and have been wanting to get to. Great! Maire Hard SF- Feb BOTM "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hardsf Original Fantasy- Feb BOTM "Perdido St Station" by China Meiville http://groups.yahoo.com/group/original_fantasy Soft SF- Feb BOTM "A Case of Conscience" by James Blish http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soft_sf > -----Original Message----- > From: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC > [mailto:feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Janice E. Dawley > Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2002 9:58 AM > To: feministsf-lit@UIC.EDU > Subject: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominations > > > I'm nominating two books this time: > > Pat Murphy: The Falling Woman (August 1993, Tor Books; ISBN: 0312854064) > $11.95 > > From the back cover: > "Elizabeth Butler is an archeologist with a special gift, one > that has made > her a popular success and has drawn the disapproval of other > scientists who > suspect her of being less than serious. Elizabeth Butler can see the past. > She can see it everywhere around her, present-day vision overlain by the > apparitions of long ago. The ghosts Elizabeth sees never speak to her, > never appear to see her at all. But one morning in the Yucatan, as > Elizabeth watches ghostly Mayan women drawing water from a long-vanished > well, one of them turns and speaks to her. For among the ancient Maya, > there is one who can see the future. > > Now the two women are bound together across time -- and as a Mayan Great > Cycle draws to a close in both eras, the ancient priestess draws > the modern > woman closer and closer to madness and tragedy." > > I'd like to discuss this book not only because of the investigation of > women "professionals" of very different eras, but also because of what > Murphy may have to say about the role of family in the main character's > life. The back cover doesn't mention it, but there is another narrator of > the novel: Elizabeth's estranged daughter Diane, who comes looking for her > mother after her father's death. Diane's feelings for her mother are the > sort normally reserved for absentee fathers in fiction -- an interesting > reversal. > > It's also true that I have owned this book for over ten years but have > somehow never read it -- and I do want to, especially after re- > reading "Rachel in Love". > > Note: This novel won the 1987 Nebula Award. > > ----- > > Severna Park: The Annunciate (294 pages, Dec. 2001, Eos; ISBN: 0380805022) > $6.99 > > From Space.com > "Imagine a world where everything is networked, where nanotechnological > machines propagate in the air, the people, even the nearly empty space > between planets. Imagine tapping into that network, able to alter almost > anything in the world or access almost any information. > > Now imagine that you don't have that access and others do, and you'll have > your finger on one of the central conflicts in Severna Park's new novel, > The Annunciate. > > The Annunciate tells the story of Eve, Annemarie, and Corey, three > fugitives roaming the isolated trinary star system of Threesys -- three is > a important number in the book, and shows up in all sorts of places. > > They're among the last survivors of the Meshed, able to control > the rapidly > eroding nanotech network of the Mesh with their minds, but hunted by two > factions who have wages a successful revolt against their former Meshed > masters. > > Having discovered the secret of a powerful and almost instantly addictive > narcotic, Annemarie plans to wage a counter-revolution of her own. By > getting the peoples of ThreeSys on hooked on the drug, she plans to bring > them back under control before they can finish destroying the > Mesh. [...]" - > - Chris Aylott > > From the Tiptree Award web site (it was on the 2000 shortlist): > "A fresh and interesting feminist take on the Garden of Eden > myth, with new > treatments of the familiar symbols of apple, gate, and garden." > > From Sf Site: > "[...] So let's review: class struggle (Meshed/Jacked/Jackless), dope > pushers and addicts, genocidal vendettas, feminist mythology given full > expression, lesbian characters with depth, virtual reality, great sex, and > all in under 300 pages. Woooo-hoooo!" -- Thomas Myer > > The variety of critical comments on this book give the impression that it > is pretty complex and fascinating, not to mention disturbing. Seems like > good discussion material. > > ----- > Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT > http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ > Listening to: Jory Nash -- One Way Down > "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, > with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:44:41 -0800 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: BDG nomination -- BLACK CHALICE Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Info: THE BLACK CHALICE by Marie Jakober (February 2002) Ace Books; ISBN: 0441008968 $15.00 repeating Laura's post: > From: Laura Quilter > Subject: Re: BLACK CHALICE > > I nominated BLACK CHALICE before it was out in paperback, so it > was put on > hold till then. Jakober has been writing sf and non-sf for a while; she's > a Canadian feminist author who has done some interesting stuff. THE > BLACK > CHALICE is reminiscent of THE MISTS OF AVALON, in that it > takes a > mythography (Germanic) and puts a feminist spin on it. Some of the > themes > -- Christianity, sexual repression -- are the same. I think it would be > well worth talking about. The characters are really well done; the > sense > of place is nice; the plot flows well. It's a good story, and she has > some things to say. So, if it's out in paperback at last, then I'll > nominate it (or second it). > > -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC Sender: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG: A WOMAN'S LIBERATION Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:29 PM 1/22/02 -0500, Dave Belden wrote: >I haven't read much anthropology. Would like to know more of what >you are talking about: models that ascribe a certain kind of social >structure too rigidly to a certain technological level? Yes, that's part of it. A rigid hierarchy is another part of it. Lewis Henry Morgan's evolutionary stages of mankind (three levels each of Savagery and Barbarism, but only one of Civilization), were all keyed to a group's technology and assumed a natural progression from one to another -- from imperfection toward perfection -- somewhat like the religious concept of the Great Chain of Being. The first section of Le Guin's story "The Matter of Seggri", "Captain Aolao-olao's Report", strikes me as a humorous reference to this sort of early ethnography that blatantly valued a society more highly the closer it came to Western civilization and that made no attempt to understand how a society came to be the way it was. Franz Boas' "historical particularism" was in part a critique of evolutionism. It focused on the unique history of each culture and held that most commonalities between groups were a result of cross-cultural exchange rather than metaphysical influence. Le Guin's father, A.L. Kroeber, was a disciple of Boas. There are other theories out there (ethnoscience, structuralism, etc.) but I don't think I'm stretching when I say that historical particularism was the most influential "paradigm shift" of anthropology's short history, and that most work being done for the past fifty years assumes it as a base. Yet most popular culture is still firmly stuck in the world view of L.H. Morgan, assuming straight-line progression from primitive savagery toward some kind of perfection. Common terms like "pre-industrial" and "pre-literate" make it really obvious. I really appreciate that Le Guin offers an alternative to this sort of thinking. >Is 'mainstream' a genre? Yes of course, in one way. I think I was half using >it for something else, though, which is really indefensible of me, but I >want a word for it: and really it is a word for what 'mainstream' claims to >be but isn't: the novels that genuinely attempt - and succeed! - in >illuminating the human condition. Of course we know that lots of sf does >that (as does much detective or historical fiction) , even that in some ways >sf deals with massive moral / philosophical / socio-political and other >questions better than most 'mainstream' fiction which has narrowed its focus >and scope disastrously since Dostoevesky, Balzac and co. I want best of the >last century lists that ignore genre altogether. But look at the debates >over The Lord of the Rings, and whether its literature or not? Ah! >Literature. I was forgetting that word. How much feminist sf would anyone >put under the heading: Literature? Or is that not a feminist question? I have no objection to it, but I do think it's important to realize that some works of feminist sf may not make the cut as "literature" but are still important if what you care about is feminist sf itself. In fact, one could say that the very fact that a novel is feminist means that it will "illuminate the human condition" in a way that a non-feminist work will not. Depends where you stand. ;-) In any case, there's quite a lot of feminist sf I would call "literature", even given the ambiguous politics of that term. Le Guin, Candas Jane Dorsey, Maureen McHugh, Molly Gloss, Suzy McKee Charnas, Karen Joy Fowler, Marge Piercy, and Joanna Russ have all written challenging, stylistically satisfying books -- and that's just off the top of my head. There's a lot more out there; exploring it is what this listserv is all about! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/ Listening to: Jory Nash -- One Way Down "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick