Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF-LIT LOG0210B" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:19:55 +0200 Reply-To: divadiane9@compuserve.de Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Diane Severson Subject: Re: BDG nomination: Orlando Comments: To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20021006191306.00adc4d0@pop.krauel.com> Looking through the Feminist SFFU Checklist and looking back at our previous nominations, I've come up with a couple which I'd like to nominate: Virginia Woolf: Orlando; ISBN: 0613174224; Publisher: Bt Bound. Price: $21.90 Note: Amazon listed this edition as the only one in print and it said it was "Library Bound". I haven't a clue what that means but it is apparently neither paperback nor Hardcover. However, they also list several other booksellers which sell the book (out of print editions) new and used, so I think it would be no problem to get ahold of. Orlando is my favorite book by Woolf and although you won't find it in the SF section of a bookstore it has some fantastical elements to it and is definitely worthy of a feminist-based discussion. Here is a review from someone at Amazon: Woolf's Orlando is the story of a young nobleman of the Elizabethan Age, who by a mysterious quirk of Fate is allowed to experience the pains and privileges of both genders. The fascinating story is at times poetic, at times verbose, but always fascinating. The reader witnesses Orlando's transformation from a sixteenth-century man to a twentieth-century woman; by employing the stream-of-consciousness technique, the androgynous protagonist's secret dilemmas and longings are clearly enunciated. By the conclusion of the novel, Woolf's stance on the matter of gender is obvious: whether the trappings of Orlando be taffeta or leather, the personality is the same. Woolf wrote during a period which did much to shun the traditional sex- barriers; rather than joining the hoardes of suffragettes or their opposing army of conservatives, she crafted a philosophy which effortlessly combined the two. Women are not superior to men, nor are they weaker; both sexes are inherently equal; more than that, one cannot differentiate between the two. We are the same. We are all members of humanity, and that bond is enough to surpass the role played by gender. Woolf is begging us not to label our neighbor as a "man" (complete with all that word connotes), for to do so would be to divide mankind with an imaginary line. Look to yourself and your friends merely as a person, for the soul can never change. Diane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG Nominations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi everyone! Looks like we're short on nominations this round. With that in mind, I'm nominating THREE books this time. The deadline was originally supposed to be midnight tonight, but I'd like to extend till tomorrow in case some people just lost track of time. There's still a whole day! Send in your nominations! Make your mark! BABEL-17, by Samuel Delany: Vintage Books; ISBN: 0375706690; 2 Bks in 1 edition -- b/w EMPIRE STAR (January 8, 2002); 288 pp; List Price $12.00 A very entertaining and insightful book from the less wordy early Delany. Rydra Wong is a renowned poet and linguist called in by the Military to decipher Babel-17, a code (or is it a language?) that is the only evidence left behind by a mysterious enemy specializing in sabotage. Gathering her own crew and captaining her own spaceship, she races to stop the next attack. Originally published in 1966, Babel-17 was unusual in placing a female main character in a position of authority and strength. It is also chock-full of poetry and musings on the power of language to alter perception. (A Nebula Award winner.) CARMEN DOG, by Carol Emshwiller: Mercury House; ISBN: 091651577X; (March 1990); 176 pp; List Price $12.95 Pat Murphy describes it this way: "Imagine a world where all the women are turning into animals and all the animals are turning into women. The heroine is Pooch, a former golden retriever who leaves home (taking the baby with her) when her master starts showing her unwelcome attentions. Her mistress (who is becoming a snapping turtle) presents a danger to the baby, so Pooch takes the child along. Pooch's heart's desire is to sing Carmen. Though I won't tell you what happens I will say this: there's a happy ending. When Carmen Dog came out, I couldn't understand why people weren't paying more attention to it. It was funny, ironic, painful, and wonderfully true in its consideration of women and other animals." Entertainment Weekly pronounced, "Emshwiller has produced a first novel that combines the cruel humor of *Candide* with the allegorical panache of *Animal Farm*. In the hyper-Kafkaesque world of *Carmen Dog*, women have begun devolving into animals and animals ascending the evolutionary ladder to become women. . . . there has not been such a singy combination of imaginative energy, feminist outrage, and sheer literary muscle since Joanna Russ' classic *The Female Man*." This book has turned up on quite a few lists of recommended feminist sf, has been lauded extensively by Ursula Le Guin, and was on the Retrospective Tiptree shortlist. This all makes me very curious about it. WILD LIFE, by Molly Gloss: Houghton Mifflin Co; ISBN: 0618131574; (September 17, 2001); 272 pp; List Price $13.00 A Tiptree Award winner and previous nominee. Tiptree.org says: "Charlotte Bridger Drummond, the heroine of this novel, is a free-thinking feminist who makes her living as a Jules-Vernesque fantasy writer. She lives both physically and symbolically on the fringes of society, in Western Oregon at the turn of the 20th century. "She rides a bicycle, smokes cigars, and dresses in men's clothes because they are comfortable. She is a staunch advocate for women's rights, with a sense of strength and humor that informs everything in her daily life and how she chooses to raise her five sons. "When she embarks on an adventure into the wilderness, a mission of mercy, she encounters danger at every turn. <...> "Gloss is a brilliant stylist. In this novel she encompasses exquisitely researched historical fiction, a compelling mystery story, a wilderness adventure, and a fantastic journey with a tribe of mythic creatures. She manages to pull off that risky literary feat with such skill that by the end the novel becomes a meditative musing on wildness and human nature, told by one of the most memorable heroines in recent memory." ----- That's it from me. Anyone else have books to add? ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:02:53 -0500 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Rudy Leon Subject: Re: BDG Nominations Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@UIC.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a book I'd like to nominate, but I've been struggling over how to phrase this. The book is _Daughter of the Blood_ by Anne Bishop, and it is the 1st of a trilogy of 4. I read it a few weeks ago, and have not been able to get it out of my head, even with reading the first Alta novel (which I really liked) between then and now. I wish I had time to read the next three in the series. I really really want to discuss this book with y'all as well. The world is really well built, and it is built to play with our senses of right and wrong, power and strength, good and evil, and as such is very provocative, and very disturbing. There are key plot elements involving child rape, but they are not gratuitous, but rather a symptom of the wrongs in the world. That's the part that has had me hesitating adding this nomination. It's a 6.99 paperback * Mass Market Paperback: 368 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.15 x 6.82 x 4.19 * Publisher: New American Library; ISBN: 0451456718; Reprint edition (March 1998) here is Amazon's review: (BTW, Amazon finds it comparable to Laurell K. Hamilton';s work, but I think that is a blatantly superficial comparison based solely on dark sex and magic. I don't think of them as the same as all -- Hamilton's books, imho, have just become an excuse for soft core S&M.) Amazon.com Anne Bishop's debut novel, Daughter of the Blood , is like black coffee--strong, dark, and hard on delicate stomachs. Within the Blood (a race of magic-users), women rule and men serve, but tradition has been corrupted so that women enslave men, who seek to destroy their oppressors. Female children are violated before they can reach maturity; men are tortured and forced to satisfy witches' sexual appetites. Bishop's child heroine, Jaenelle, is destined to rule the Blood, if she can reach adulthood. Her power is hidden; her family believes her mad. Saetan, High Lord of Hell and most powerful of the Blood males, becomes Jaenelle's surrogate father and teacher. He cannot protect her outside Hell, where he rules. She refuses to leave Terreille, risking herself to protect or heal other victims of violence. Can Daemon, Saetan's estranged son, keep her safe from the machinations of the evil High Priestess? Or will he lose his battle to control his destructive urges and endanger her? Readers may find some aspects of Bishop's world confusing; not least that most of the good guys live in Hell. But her protagonists are compelling, sympathetic characters who overcome terrible adversity. A reader's review: This book and it's sequel Heir to Shadows are a must have!!! I read through the night to finish each of them, and I can't wait for the third book to come out! Already I have re-read each book more than three times in the last month, because the story is so gripping. Anne Bishop's wonderful sense of humor is expressed in many of the scenes between Jaenelle and the other main characters (namely Saetan and Daemon). This precocious 12 year old never fails to confound them, and the encounters can become hysterically funny as they try to find a way to deal with a young girl with powers beyond anyone's imagination. She's got enough power to do the unimaginable, but can't do the simple things. Their sheer terror at what she is capable of (or sometimes not capable of doing), is humorously mixed with exasperation, frustration, and tenderness. I laughed out loud at so many scenes that my mother, who doesn't read fantasy, demanded that she get to read it after me... She's also an Anne Bishop fan now!! The book also deals with very dark issues, including abuse and the kind of society that results when trust, respect, and honor between men and women is destroyed. What's saddest about it is that a few people have systematically destroyed those bonds in order to gain power for themselves. Anne Bishop weaves these dark threads with those of hope that with the coming of the new queen, Jaenelle, that things will change. If they can protect her long enough for her to grow up... One more: I was looking for something --anything-- that would conter-balance the boring, everyday junk that seems to be on the market these days. Well, I most certainly found it. I must admit, it took me a while to seperate the good from the bad characters. If your contemplating reading this book I warn you, it will force you to expand your horizons more, and it will give you a new perspective of good and bad. But, the characters themselves really bring this book to life. It brings you into their devious, yet interesting lives. They are so very intelligent, but their surroundings make them, at times, seem rather stupid. This book is something quite out of the ordinary, believe me, it gets you thinking. ~*~*~*~ Rudy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:12:24 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG The Books of Great Alta Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please excuse that I'm late with the kick-off. I was, totally unexpectedly, cut off from the internet for some days. A new list member asked me > Is it okay to begin the Great Alta discussion without you? YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. The kick-off by the person who originally nominated the book was introduced because people often were reluctant or uncertain to start the discussion. The kick-off is intended as a clear signal to start but the nominator neither "owns" the discussion nor is s/he responsible for a "good" discussion (for which I am grateful). That said, let's start with the discussion of _The Books of Great Alta_ (TBoGA) by Jane Yolen. TBoGA consists of _Sister Light, Sister Dark_ (SLSD), originally published in 1988, and the sequel _White Jenna_ (WJ) (1989). I moved this summer and most of our books are still in boxes. The last 2 weeks I hunted for the box with the To-Be-Read books (including TBoGA), without success. I've read the first part, _Sister Light, Sister Dark_ more than a year ago, so my questions and comments are restricted to that and please excuse that my memory is sometimes vague or faulty of the book (just point it out). I enjoyed the plot, the myth, the prose and the characters. Originally I've become interested in TBoGA because of an essay of Jessica Salmonson on Amazons (or swordswomen) (http://www.violetbooks.com/amazon.html), in which she writes "Commonly the swordswoman is treated as an anomaly in these novels, even in her own fantasy world, as in the cases of Lynn Abbey's Daughter of the Bright Moon, & Elizabeth A. Lynn's "Tarnor Trilogy." Occasionally she is a member of an anomalous cult, & though not the only swordswoman in her world, she remains outside societal norms, as exemplified in Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Shattered Chain. Rarely the swordswoman is "the rule" as in Phyllis Ann Karr's Frostflower & Thorn, Lillian Stewart Carl's Sabazel, or Jane Yolen's Sister Light, Sister Dark. [...] The underlying message would seem to be of women's alienation in the real world, as none of these authors have been able to imagine fantasy worlds in which amazons are entirely comfortable with themselves & their environment. None have imagined worlds in which such competence in women is not the special case. A single grand exception is Raven of Samuel Delany's Tales of Neveryon. Though typical of the genre in that she is travelling through patriarchal lands, Raven expresses a world-view radically opposed to the, for her, alien attitudes encountered in male-dominated countries. [...] The reduction of the amazon to anomaly is recent. In the majority of the medieval popular literature & epic poems dealing with heroism, the Amazon in context of her own society is a commonplace. Thus it can be seen that the modern amazon novel shies away from the boldness of tradition in favor of an updated milquetoast approach, devoid, except in Delany's limited case, of Amazon theology & deep-rooted history." Jessica Salmonson cites _The Shattered Chain_ as a negative and SLSD as positive example. There are some interesting parallels and distinctions between SLSD and the Renunciates novels (The Shattered Chain, Thendara House, City of Sorcery). In both series an Amazon society is described. With that term I mean a female-only society that lives in parallel to a mixed-sex society (in contrast to worlds only populated by women, e.g. _Ammonite_ by Nicola Griffith or _Motherlines_ by Suzy Charnas). The Renunciates live in special houses within the mainstream society, the Amazons of SLSD live in a separate area apparently some distance of. In both cases (and I hope my memory serves me right here with respect to SLSD) the "Amazons" have contact with the men of the mixed society and by this way get children. In addition, adult women of the mixed society join the female-only one. With the Renunciates the latter is the only way to become a part of their community. Their own daughters have to experience life in the mainstream society before they are allowed to join. It's seen as the choice of "unusual" or hurt women who give up the benefits of the mainstream (renunciate) to obtain the protection of the separation. In the Amazon society of SLSD this would be an alien idea. The perspective is positive and not defined by loss. In both books the members of the Amazon society learn to fight and not only for self-defense. The Renunciates "work" as mercenaries while in SLSD the women are proud to be fighters. What about sex in-between the members of the community? I cannot remember. The strongest impression is of the connection between light and dark sister. The nature of this relationship I realized only after some chapters, at the beginning I took them to be separate persons. And in a way they obviously are, but not totally (this is fantasy after all). What did you make of the dark sisters? The separate aspects of one person? That's probably so simplified that it's wrong. What's the significance of that the third mother of Jenna shuns her dark sister? Again my memory is hazy, Jenna didn't have a dark sister, did she? (I have to find the book!). Another very unusual aspect of the book is that Jenna is a female messias. Cite another literary example! I don't know any. (In this respect a comparison with _Dune_ might be interesting - I'm in comparison mode today). In general a messias signals a new start, a renewal, the costs are the destruction of the old world, but in this book the Amazon society is completely destroyed and most members killed. Despite the myth I was surprised and expected something else. Nonetheless, I do not remember it as a sad book What did you make of the Prince as "love-interest"? Why is the Amazon society attacked? What do the 3 mothers of Jenna signify (if anything)? So much for today. I hope for a lively discusssion despite the late start and my hazy recollections. Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de www.feministische-sf.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:13:45 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Nomination: Perdido Street Station by China Mieville Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As you have just seen kick-offs are not my forte. Nonetheless, I nominate Perdido Street Station by China Mieville UK Edition: List Price: £7.99, Paperback - 880 pages new edition (23 February, 2001), Pan; ISBN: 0330392891 US Edition: List Price: $18.00, Paperback: 720 pages ; Publisher: Del Rey; ISBN: 0345443020; (February 27, 2001) This is one of the most lauded SF&F books in the last years. It won the Arthur C. Clarke Award and the British Fantasy Award. It was nominated for the Hugo (and nearly won), for the World Fantasy Award and for the British Science Fiction Association Award. And, of special interest to this list, it was short-listed for the James Tiptree Jr. Award (comments of the Tiptree jury: "An amazing read, a big epic wonder of a novel that constructs an urban fantasy world that is both Dickensian and futuristic. Its main themes are about inter-species relationships and what it is to be human, but there is a strong gender sub-theme that weaves its way through the city and the lives of its main characters."). Because of its darker aspects and its length I haven't read the book so far but so many people have recommended this book on the web, I am very curious. -- Infinity+ Review by Andy Sawyer http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/iplus/nonfiction/perdido.htm New Crobuzon is Metropolis meeting Gormenghast in the heart of Dickensian London, inhabited by humans, mutants, alien species and modified criminals of all kinds. Into this city polluted by industrial effluents and the less natural by-products of sorcery comes a stranger punished for an almost incomprehensible crime and a life-form which becomes an almost unimaginable threat. Drop-out scientist Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin and his khepri lover Lin find themselves threatened by the city's law-enforcers and its criminal underworld. The first sentence of the last paragraph looks to past art-forms to describe the book. But what is remarkable about it (or one of the things which is remarkable about it) is its contemporary feel. China Miéville is a new writer (his previous novel, King Rat, charted some of the meaner London gutters) with an ambition to pull fantasy out of the reactionary faux-medieval trough in which it has languished for several decades. He's not the only writer with this ambition. In New Crobuzon's environment of shabby scholars and underground-press journalists living in a world which offers both what appears to be magic and a firmly post-industrial revolution economy, he echoes Mary Gentle's stunning Rats and Gargoyles. Unlike Gentle, though, Miéville gives us not Renaissance Hermeticism as a touchstone but (as I am not the first to remark) delves farther into cyberpunk thaumaturgy with crisis engines, machine intelligences, and Isaac's search for a Unified Field Theory "which unifies all the forces: mental, social, physical". Isaac remarks to himself at one point, "He was a scientist, not a mystic." If one of the traits which has bedevilled science fiction over the past few years is the way it so often reads like fantasy, Miéville is giving us fantasy which reads like science fiction. The insect-headed khepri, the vodyanoi, and the cactacae are firmly-imagined beings which in a slightly different context could be aliens from another world. The urban environment, perhaps too fashionably squalid (a legacy from cyberpunk as much from Mervyn Peake?) is vivid. One can see, behind it, our own metropolitan wastelands and inner cities. The plot is complex and at times - as surprise is piled upon surprise - shocking, but it is heightened by the numerous grotesque set-pieces: the references to the horrific practice of "Remaking" criminals (a woman has the arms of her murdered baby grafted to her face to remind her of her crime) or the torture of one major character by a drug-lord. Some of the characters - the spider-like Weaver, the handlingers, the above-mentioned khepri (who sculpt using a bodily excretion) and the garuda - are magnificently hallucinatory creations. There's possibly a sense in which Miéville is throwing too much at us - what can he possibly have up his sleeve for subsequent books? But even if he is, this is a feast of excess which we can only stand back and wonder at. And I suspect that this is only the beginning. -- -- Cheryl Morgan's review http://www.emcit.com/emcit065.shtml#Streets: Our hero Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin is an outcast scientist, a dabbler in obscure disciplines such as vodyanoi watercraeft and Crisis Theory. He is middle-aged, fat, something of a rebel, and could be rather brilliant if only he could apply himself to something for long enough. He is very fond of his beer, and even more fond of Lin. The lady is a khepri gland artist. The insect-headed females of her race are capable of digesting coloured berries and combining them with various natural secretions to make a fast drying paste with which they create fabulous sculptures. Lin, who is also a bit of a rebel, has forsaken traditional khepri styles and has become quite popular amongst human art lovers. In fact, she is rather too popular for her own good. Of course Isaac and Lin have to keep their relationship secret. Other than amongst the free-thinking artistic community of Salacus Fields, cross-species relationships are deeply frowned upon. But soon their social embarrassment will become the very least of their problems. A mysterious, bird-headed visitor from the far deserts of Cymek, a terrifying client whom Lin dare not turn down, and accidental involvement in one of the many money-making schemes of the city government place our heroes, New Crobuzon, and all of its inhabitants, in very deadly danger. Lovers of ideas on the other hand will nod happily at the way Miéville uses Isaac and Lin's relationship as a way of introducing the occasional gay character without raising an eyebrow. They will ponder on the nature of the legal system of the garuda from Cymek and consider the possibility of making the book required reading for all Libertarian theorists. They will compare the desperate hopelessness of New Crobuzon's social revolutionaries with the romanticism of Ken MacLeod, and they will wish that Miéville had more time to spend on all of these topics, instead of simply revelling in the joy of beautiful prose. -- Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de www.feministische-sf.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:14:32 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Nomination: The Silver Metal Lover by Tanith Lee Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Secondly, I nominate The Silver Metal Lover by Tanith Lee List Price: $5.99, Mass Market Paperback: 304 pages ; Publisher: Bantam Books; ISBN: 0553581279; (May 4, 1999) Early this year when I asked whether list members could point out gaps in my bibliography of feminist SF&F _The Silver Metal Lover_ was recommended and my interest was raised. A look at Amazon and through the web in general shows that this book is extremely popular with the readers. It was originally published in 1981 and went out of print for several years. People petitioned the publisher to reissue it. -- A review by Victoria Strauss at SF Site http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sil60.htm I read my first Tanith Lee novel when I was in my teens, and I've been eagerly devouring her fiction ever since. Sadly, a great deal of her work is out of print, and so it's an occasion for rejoicing when one of her books is re-issued. The re-publication of The Silver Metal Lover (out of print for more than a decade) is an especially exciting event, for it's one of Lee's best--lush, sensual, dark, and utterly enthralling. Jane is a pampered rich girl. She lives in a fantastic house raised high above the city on metal struts. Her doting mother gives her everything her heart could desire: luxurious rooms, fabulously expensive clothing, a bigger allowance than she can think how to spend, all the conditioning and cosmetics and beauty aids that money can buy. Jane has no idea that she's bored until she encounters Silver, an impossibly beautiful, impossibly human-seeming robot created by a company called Electronic Metals Ltd. Silver has been built to be a musician, and his exquisite singing stirs something in Jane that she has never felt before. Jane knows it's crazy to fall in love with a robot. But she thinks she's seen something in Silver--something more than clockwork and computer chips, something beyond the machine. When she discovers that Electronic Metals intends to dismantle Silver, because he hasn't checked out on their function tests, she persuades a wealthy friend to buy him. Together, she and Silver flee to the only place where they can live undisturbed: the city's decayed and violent slums. There, in a dilapidated apartment they transform into a fairytale refuge, Jane begins to understand that she wasn't mistaken when she glimpsed a soul inside the metal body of her lover. The accompanying literature describes The Silver Metal Lover as a romance. And indeed it is, capturing with breathless intensity the delirium of first love. But it's also a story of becoming human. Silver, acquiring free will, learning to feel love and fear, makes this journey; and so does Jane, who has spent her whole life cocooned in wealth, parroting the tastes and beliefs of those around her, pre-programmed by her environment and education just as Silver has been pre-programmed by his builders. Layer by layer they shed their conditioning, a struggle to freedom that parallels their unfolding love story, and lends it depth and poignancy. Lee's prose is lush and lyrical, her settings exotic and powerfully atmospheric. There's a cyberpunk feel to the world she creates, with its machine-driven culture and huge gap between rich and poor, but unlike a lot of early cyberpunk, it doesn't seem dated. The characters--Silver and Jane especially, but also the many secondary players--are unforgettable, rendered with great feeling and delicious flashes of humor. The Silver Metal Lover is a feast for the mind and the heart, one of the most purely enjoyable reads I've had in ages. Bantam is to be commended for bringing this wonderful novel back into print, and giving a new generation of readers a chance to discover it. -- Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de www.feministische-sf.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:15:56 +0200 Reply-To: p.mayerhofer@web.de Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: BDG Nomination: Sisters of the Raven by Barbara Hambly Comments: To: feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And lastly, I nominate Sisters of the Raven by Barbara Hambly List Price: $13.95, Paperback: 368 pages ; Publisher: Aspect; ISBN: 0446677043; (August 2002) I have read several of Barbara Hambly's fantasy novels. They are usually entertaining, with original ideas that run counter to fantasy cliches, in general the protagonists face some hardships and there are no glib happy ends. My favourites so far are the Windrose trilogy and its follow-up _Sorcerer's Ward_. This book was published 2 months ago and there are already several positive reviews on the web and at Amazon. -- BookLoons Review by Hilary Williamson, http://www.bookloons.com/Database/Fantasy_Review_of_Sisters_of_the_Raven_by_ Hambly.html Barbara Hambly is one of my favorite authors across two very different genres. She writes both excellent historical mysteries (her New Orleans Benjamin January series) and a variety of fantasy tales in which she typically stacks the odds heavily against her protagonists, but makes up for it by giving them strong romantic interests. Sisters of the Raven introduces a new world, in which men, who previously had a monopoly on magic, are fast losing it, at the same time as magical djinni are disappearing. A scattering of women have developed a range of powers from clearing out pests to healing. The setting is the Yellow City, its style hinting of medieval Japan, including its Pearl Women who are reminiscent of geisha but with the addition of martial arts to their training. The general subjugation of women and their veiling reminds us of fundamentalist Moslem societies. There are some wonderful characters. Oryn, the king, is an overweight dandy who is also sensitive, intelligent and underestimated. He loves the Summer Concubine, a Pearl Woman and his partner in all things, who has gathered to her other women of power as the Sisters of the Raven. One of them, Raeshaldis, is a novice wizard (and the only woman) in the College of the Mages of the Sun. She has been working with them in an attempt to summon rain, desperately needed in a city surrounded by desert. But women with magic are disappearing, a mysterious master wizard has tried to kill Shaldis, and Ravens dream of sisters screaming for help. If that were not enough, the king's uncle is plotting against him along with the founder of a new and gory religious movement. Also a slave race, the teyn, are discovering the absence of magic that has long been used to force their labour in field and mine. The mystery unfolds alongside treachery and rebellion, leading to a climactic confrontation in a tomb. Oryn tries to lead his people away from a reliance on magic and to build aqueducts. While helping him, the Summer Concubine also works to empower women and has reservations about her people's treatment of the teyn. In addition to their established romance, the author develops one between Shaldis and a straitlaced young guardsman. It's an entertaining fantasy/mystery in a well-developed world, and I hope to see a sequel. -- By another reviewer the novel is described as a "major, provocative new fantasy in the tradition of Ursula K. Le Guin, Sheri Tepper, and Suzy McKee Charnas...". Well, I suppose that goes a bit far but I expect a fun read. Petra -- Petra Mayerhofer p.mayerhofer@web.de www.feministische-sf.de ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:41:48 -0700 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Bridgett Torrence Subject: BDG Nomination: The Saga of the Renunciates by Marion Zimmer Bradley Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Marion Zimmer Bradley: The Saga of the Renunciates. (Aug 2002). Daw Books; ISBN: 0756400929, List Price: $8.99 A recent post compared and contrasted the current BDG selection, Jane Yolen=B9s _The Books of Great Alta_ with Marion Zimmer Bradley=B9s renunciate novels _The Shattered Chain_ (1976), _Thendara House_ (1983), and _City of Sorcery_ (1984). Since we=B9re on the subject of Amazons, and since these three books just happen to have been published in an affordable omnibus edition, I suggest we revisit Darkover and see how and/or if it has changed for us. There is only one customer review so far for the omnibus at Amazon.com: ********* strong women's story, September 2, 2002 Reviewer: Kathleen Watson (see more about me) from RIVETT, ACT Australi= a The saga of the renunciates is an omnibus of MZB's three "Darkover" novels that deal with the Renunciate's Guild - a group within Darkovan society tha= t allows women to free themselves from the oppressive rules of their world. A= t this point of Darkovan history, the planet (a lost colony of Earth) has bee= n rediscovered by the Terran Empire. It works well as a single volume, as it'= s the three-part story of a "Terran" woman (Margali) who becomes involved in the guild by accident, and her personal growth as a result. Personally, I find the third story rather tedious - it is a quest story in which a group of women go searching for a mythical or secret Women's City, involving a lot of walking through frozen mountains and (I thought) a fairl= y anticlimactic ending. Some of the Terran gender relations in the book seem somewhat dated, readin= g like a reflection of the late 70s-early 80s period when the stories were written, although the alien Darkovan version seems much less so. In general, a rewarding book, which should appeal to anyone who enjoys speculative fiction with strong feminist characters. ********** _The Shattered Chain_ is still out of print and _Thendara House_ has no Amazon.com customer reviews, but there are several for _City of Sorcery_. Interestingly enough, the majority of reviewers disagree with the opinion that this last book is disappointing. Indeed, the following review states that it is the best. ********* Really gripping!, October 15, 2000 Reviewer: vintage_girl (see more about me) from Wenham, MA USA This is the third in the mini-series focusing on the Renunciates, within the larger Darkover series. It features the characters that have developed within the previous two novels, Jaelle, Magda, Camilla, and the Terran Cholayna. This novel is much more action packed than the previous two had been, with a fraught and perilous journey across mountains, facing dangers both natural and supernatural, in search of a mythic city mentioned in obscure legends--the city of sorcery. This novel takes place seven years after 'Thendara House', and Jaelle and Magda are full-members now of the Forbidden Tower. They've both been fully trained in the use of their Laran, and their abilities have grown considerably.=20 If you've enjoyed the other two books in this series-within-a-series, 'Shattered Chain' and 'Thendara House,' you will love this one--it's definitely the best, and it truly delivers on the potential of the other two. If you've missed the first two, you'll still enjoy this one on its own--Bradley makes sure to provide recaps of relevant past events and relationships, allowing a new reader to dive straight into this story. But, there's no question, if you already know and love these characters from their previous adventures, you'll be even more deeply engaged in this great story.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:31:37 +0100 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Heather Stark Subject: Re: BDG The Books of Great Alta Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@UIC.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the kick-off, Petra. Petra said she "enjoyed the plot, the myth, the prose and the characters", which sounds like a win all round.. For myself - about 2/3 of the way through I lost the will to continue, and started skipping around, trying to re-engage but failing. I wish I could say something enlightening about why this happened...but I can't quite pin it down. Did anyone else have the same experience? I did find some elements in the book intreguing. Like Petra, I was interested by the notion of the dark sisters - I found the idea quite evocative, and tried to pay close attention in order to keep up to date with what the author was telling us, bit by bit, about the nature of this relationship. But although I was very interested by the idea, I felt that much of the idea's potential remained unexplored - there was depth or tension or revelation that could have been developed from the notion, but wasn't. It ended up, for me, feeling kind of like a special effect. ('oooh, neat-oh'). This seems like a missed opportunity. Petra's comment that this is one of the few books with a female messiah is interesting. I look forward to what the list has to say about this... regards, Heather ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:50:29 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Dave Subject: Re: BDG The Books of Great Alta Comments: To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather wrote: > Thanks for the kick-off, Petra. Petra said she "enjoyed the plot, the > myth, the prose and the characters", which sounds like a win all round.. I'm with Petra: a really engaging read. Felt I could relax, because I was in the hands of a good storyteller. The divisions into myth, history and story were well done. I particularly liked the voices in the history sections, which connected the whole thing to the way people try to reconstruct Arthurian and other legends: nice to have a good laugh at the expense of present day cautious academics. > For myself - about 2/3 of the way through I lost the will to continue...but I can't quite pin > it down. Did anyone else have the same experience? I did, but not until the second book. The third book was there on the bookstore shelf, and I didn't buy it: I had lost interest. I felt she just didn't have enough deep stuff to say. Some wonderful imagery - like the dark sisters, which would make a terrific series of paintings, but like Heather, I thought she did so little with it. Contrast what Philip Pullman does with the daemons in His Dark Materials: they are so much more psychologically insightful. The dark sisters at times seemed quite autonomous - they had their own lives elsewhere before being brought into our world, and acted independently in our world: but then at other times they mimicked every gesture, every breath, like shadows, and they died with their light sister - they were just too subordinate in the end. The most interesting parts were where Jenna's dark sister would say what Jenna was thinking but too polite to say, or was not even aware that she was thinking - that was good. We should all be so lucky/unlucky as to have someone like that. What are the implications for a feminist/gender-based analysis of the book that only women could have a dark double? There didn't seem to be a good reason for it, nor did the men seem to feel their lack. It was just taken for granted. This one-sidedness may feed into some women's (secretly most or all women's?) sense that they are deeper and more spiritual or something than men. Which would be a fair point to develop in a story - but this story never developed the idea, so far as I could see. Nothing was happening with that whole provocative concept. This is partly what I mean about the books lacking depth . > Petra's comment that this is one of the few books with a female messiah is > interesting. I look forward to what the list has to say about this... Anyone read 'An Instance of the Fingerpost'? Brilliant historical novel, which is completely tranformed in the second half by a sort of female messiah figure - loved that book. Dave ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:30:16 -0700 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Bridgett Torrence Subject: Re: BDG The Books of Great Alta Comments: To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia In-Reply-To: <002c01c271e3$07aa2060$65040150@hashome> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable _The Books of Great Alta_ seemed a lot like a Snow White variation to me. We have White Jenna, a wicked mother and her magic mirror, and even little men. Has anyone here studied early, non-Disney Snow White stories? I woul= d really be interested to hear what you think of this comparison. I enjoyed TBofGA, but I came away feeling somewhat dissatisfied. Perhaps, as Heather said, my feelings have to do with the unexplored potential of th= e Dark Sisters. When Jenna called her Dark Sister early, I expected somethin= g extraordinary from her. Instead, she was like the gun that failed to go bang. On the other hand, I liked the mysterious nature of the Dark Sisters= . I think I would rather wonder about them than have them fully explained. As for the characters, I was really puzzled by way Pynt=B9s personality changed so abruptly at the end of _Sister Light, Sister Dark_. Her character was well developed and, knowing her so well, I felt that I could predict how she would behave in a given situation. Instead, she underwent = a personality transformation and acted in ways I did not expect. Could one event, even one as traumatic as the Hame=B9s destruction, affect such a transformation? In real life, I suppose this happens quite a bit, but I simply don=B9t expect it from my book characters. I expect fictional characters to behave in accordance with their established personalities. Was anyone else puzzled by Pynt=B9s behavior? Or did she act as you expected= ? Now that I think of it, the story didn=B9t follow my expectations, either. I was expecting a heroic journey type of story, but Jenna never did journey through the land and visit all the Hames. The unpredictability was refreshing, but at the same time frustrating. Does anyone have any thoughts on how women were valued in the larger society? I got the impression that women were not highly valued when the Hames were founded (a surplus?), but that by Jenna=B9s time, they were valued as a commodity. Jenna=B9s aunt and uncle would have liked to marry her off, and the blind Alta who was abandoned as a baby was later offered her place in her family=B9s line of succession. However, when Jenna comes back from underhill, female babies are still being abandoned to the hames as is evidenced by Jenna=B9s adopted daughter. Petra asks, "Why is the Amazon society attacked?" While reading, I thought it was because the value of women had changed and that the patriarchal leaders felt they could no longer afford to lose women to the hames. Now I'm not so sure. Thoughts, anyone? Bridgett ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 13:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG -- Time to Vote! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone -- Thanks for the last-minute flurry of nominations! We now have a total of 10= =20 books to choose from. The voting period is now to next Friday, 10/18. Please choose FOUR books=20 from the list below, rank them IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE, and send the email=20 to our gracious vote-counter, Terri Wakefield at . DO NOT SEND VOTES TO THE LIST. Here's the run-down. In-depth nominator comments are compiled at=20 http://www.geocities.com/bdg_volunteers/bdg_nom_0210.htm Bishop, Anne: DAUGHTER OF THE BLOOD. New American Library; ISBN: 0451456718; 368 pp; List Price $6.99. Bradley, Marion Zimmer: THE SAGA OF THE RENUNCIATES. Daw Books; ISBN: 0756400929, List Price: $8.99 Delany, Samuel R: BABEL-17. Vintage Books; ISBN: 0375706690; 288 pp; List Price $12. Emshwiller, Carol: CARMEN DOG. Mercury House; ISBN: 091651577X; 176 pp; List Price $12.95. Gloss, Molly: WILD LIFE. Houghton Mifflin Co; ISBN: 0618131574; 272 pp; List Price $13. Hambly, Barbara: SISTERS OF THE RAVEN. Aspect; ISBN: 0446677043; 368 pp; List Price $13.95. Hegland, Jean: INTO THE FOREST. Bantam Books; ISBN: 0553379615; List Price $13.95. Lee, Tanith: THE SILVER METAL LOVER. Bantam Books; ISBN: 0553581279; 304 pp; List Price $5.99. Mi=E9ville, China: PERDIDO STREET STATION. Tor Books; ISBN: 0312854064; 720 pp; List Price $11.95. Murphy, Pat: THE FALLING WOMAN. Del Rey; ISBN: 0345443020; List Price $18. Note: ORLANDO was not accepted as a nomination because it is only available= =20 in hard cover. Let's vote! ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:19:34 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: BDG Nomination List REVISED Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone -- It has been brought to my attention by a helpful list member that ORLANDO=20 is in fact available in paperback. (I did think it a little odd that this=20 classic novel would only be available in hard cover.) The timing isn't ideal, since voting has already started, but I have=20 revised the nomination list to include this book. That means we have a=20 total of 11 nominated titles. They are: Bishop, Anne: DAUGHTER OF THE BLOOD. New American Library; ISBN: 0451456718; 368 pp; List Price $6.99. Bradley, Marion Zimmer: THE SAGA OF THE RENUNCIATES. Daw Books; ISBN: 0756400929, List Price: $8.99 Delany, Samuel R: BABEL-17. Vintage Books; ISBN: 0375706690; 288 pp; List Price $12. Emshwiller, Carol: CARMEN DOG. Mercury House; ISBN: 091651577X; 176 pp; List Price $12.95. Gloss, Molly: WILD LIFE. Houghton Mifflin Co; ISBN: 0618131574; 272 pp; List Price $13. Hambly, Barbara: SISTERS OF THE RAVEN. Aspect; ISBN: 0446677043; 368 pp; List Price $13.95. Hegland, Jean: INTO THE FOREST. Bantam Books; ISBN: 0553379615; List Price $13.95. Lee, Tanith: THE SILVER METAL LOVER. Bantam Books; ISBN: 0553581279; 304 pp; List Price $5.99. Mi=E9ville, China: PERDIDO STREET STATION. Tor Books; ISBN: 0312854064; 720 pp; List Price $11.95. Murphy, Pat: THE FALLING WOMAN. Del Rey; ISBN: 0345443020; List Price $18. Woolf, Virginia: ORLANDO. Harvest Books; ISBN: 015670160X; List Price $13. If you have already sent your votes to Terri and want to change them in=20 light of this new information just make sure that you note in your subject= =20 line that yours is a revised ballot. Sorry about the mix-up. ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:35:24 EDT Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: Joy Martin Subject: Re: BDG Nomination List REVISED Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please remind us how to vote.Thanks,Joy "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:37:57 -0400 Reply-To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Sender: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: BDG Nomination List REVISED Comments: To: friendly STRICTLY ON TOPIC discussion of Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia In-Reply-To: <166.158c395c.2adb4f2c@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:35 PM 10/13/2002 -0400, Joy wrote: >Please remind us how to vote. To vote, send an email to Terri Wakefield at listing your four choices, in order of preference (so that any ties can be resolved). ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://therem.net/ Listening to: Coldplay -- A Rush of Blood to the Head "I've built my white picket fence around the Now, with a commanding view of the Soon-to-Be." -- The Tick