On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Joel VanLaven wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Sean Johnston wrote:
>
> > Of course, Alia (St. Alia of the Knife) was even more powerful than Lady
> > Jessica. Once she grew up, that is. Then there's the Reverend Mother
> > Gaius Helen Mohiam--a little slimy, but still powerful. Finally, a very
> > powerful woman was Paul Muad'Dib's wife Chani (and most of the other Fremen
> > women--_now_ that's a society that is an example of equality in practice).
>
> And yet... I did not see it as very feminist. Perhaps better than
> some but, (I am about to try to remember details, forgive my mistakes)
>
> There were two ancient schools, Bene Geserit and the other one that
> handled interstellar travel. women => language, men => math. women =>
> natural, men => self-chosen mutated freaks. Women less power than men.
>
> Fremen. Women owned by men (Paul won his first wife by killing her
> husband) polygamous, not polyandrous (as I recall and I am probably
> messing up the formal definitions) Men were the warriors.
>
> Social structure. Royal title through male descent. Women political
> pawns (emporer's daughter), prostitutes, and playthings (emporer's
> "gifts"). Mentats: men. Security: men. Soldiers: men.
>
> The universe at large: Women fundamentally different than men.
> Especially in the mystical parts of the Bene Geserit psychic stuff. Women
> can't go to the place that the man can (though Paul is the only male Bene
> Geserit).
>
> So, my assesment is that it is extremely sexist. With some small power
> given to some freakish women that no one much likes. Perhaps that is
> better than much, but I think there is better still.
>
> -- Joel VanLaven
>
I agree with Joel (who seems to have a fabulous memory to me). I remember
Jessica saying something to Chani like "they call us concubines now but
history, history will call us wives". That is women are only valauable
insofar
as they are legitimate adjuncts to Dukes and Emperors. Jessica also
channels most of her energies into her son: the mother figure self-
sacrificing so that her son can become a real hero. And how about
Irulan's misery because Paul doesn't love her? She channels all that
repressed passion into books and language, but 'really' just desiring to
be a 'real' woman (ie loved and desired by Paul). In terms of being a
feminist organisation, the Bene
Gesserit don't cut it: they distribute their members to whatever royal
family seems likely to produce the mystical male figure, regardless of any
personal horrors they cause.So we have women as sites
of reproduction, and pawns becuase of it, yet again. And their power is
achieved through traditional methods
like feminine wiles). And the "Kawitz Haderach" (?) has the power
to see into both male and female pasts: a male can subsume the female,
but the opposite is just not possible. Sounds very familiar to me. Women
are not powerless in Dune, but I don't think that having a woman with
power is neccesarily the real criteria that should be used to
measure feminism (I drag out the Margaret Thatcher example yet again).
HOW that power is used is more vital.
Tanya.
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