========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:41:42 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Angela Carter question Comments: To: Dan Wood , feministsf@uic.edu In-Reply-To: <199703120753.BAA89618@tigger.cc.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can anybody help this guy? Dan Wood is looking for a biography of Angela Carter, or recordings of her material ... On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 web_mailer@uic.edu wrote: > Name: dan Wood > Email: dwood@emory.edu > > I am a: sf fan\0researcher > I found this page by looking for: science fiction > > My comment concerns: question\0comment > OK to post on bulletin board: bulletin board OK > Please respond sometime soon, please > > My comments are: > Hello sci/fi guys and gals > I have two questions about Angela Carter. > The first is whether there is a biography out about her. > The second is whether there was ever a radio production made of her > radio plays. If so, where could I obtain recordings of those radio > plays? > Any help would be great. I have been a fan of Angela's for years. > > Take care, > > Dan > Laura M. Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ "If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution." -- Emma Goldman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:43:59 -0500 Reply-To: roane@mail.map.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: christine roane Organization: Preferred Company Subject: Influence of sci-fi on women MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was delighted to discover this list! I'd like to ask female subscribers who became interested in science fiction as adolescents, how the portrayal of female characters influenced their development into adult women. Well-publicized examples of this include Whoopi Goldberg, who was inspired to pursue her dreams by Nichelle Nichols' character, Lieutenant Uhura, on "Star Trek," and shuttle astronaut Mae Jemison, who was influenced in her career choice by the same program. I am writing a book on this subject and have a questionnaire for those of you who would like to contribute to my research. I'd love to have you review my questions, and I'd love even more to have your responses! Please, send your e-mail address to me: roane@mail.map.com I'll send you the questions ASAP. And thank you all. Christine Roane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:56:37 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: technological feminist sf? Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: Jerry Savage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jerry, I'm forwarding your question to some others - maybe they have some ideas. I'll think about it, too, and get back to you. Laura M. Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ "If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution." -- Emma Goldman ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:13:57 -0600 From: "UIC Web Form Mailerweb_mailer"@uic.edu To: femsfweb@uic.edu Cc: lauramd@uic.edu Subject: femsf feedback Name: Jerry Savage Email: gjsavag@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu I am a: sf fan\0researcher\0feminist I found this page by looking for: feminist science fiction My comment concerns: question OK to post on bulletin board: bulletin board OK Please respond sometime soon, please My comments are: I'm working with the Feminist Issues Committee in the English Department, developing new graduate-level course proposals in feminist and gender topics. My specialty is technical communication, and I started out developing a Gender and Technology syllabus. I decided to include a unit on feminist science fiction in this course, and that led me to your site. What I want to emphasize in this unit is the technology aspect. Hence, I don't think I want to get into utopias and fantasy unless there is a fairly clear technology aspect to those stories. I've been a casual reader of SF for many years, but I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to know which writers would be most important. At this point I do think Slonczewski will be high on the list. Can you recommend other titles? My final list can only include about five or six books because the majority of the course will deal with nonfiction. I can see this unit ultimately becoming a course in itself. We have already begun discussing that possibility, although I'm not so sure I would be the best one to teach it. Thanks for any help you can give. Thanks also for a great website. Jerry Savage ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:07:32 -0800 Reply-To: essency@warp6.cs.misu.nodak.edu Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Janet E. Essency" Organization: Gordon B. Olson Library Minot State University 500 University Ave.West Minot, ND 58707-0001 Subject: marge piercy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you happened to mention Marge Piercy in your annoucement about this list, I thought I would throw out a question to the group(Is there one yet?) about her. I have never read anything by her. One of the people I work with is so gung-ho about her that she arranged for her to come to campus next month. So what do anothers think about her as a writer? And hasn't she only written a couple of books that can be classified as SF? Am interested in any & all opinions. Janet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:53:18 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: marge piercy In-Reply-To: <333AC574.6040@warp6.cs.misu.nodak.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Of the works I've read by her (about half), she's written three that are SF. WOMAN ON THE EDGE OF TIME -- which is fantastic, one of my all-time favorite books, and a must-read for any feminist OR any science-fiction OR any utopian scholar. DANCE THE EAGLE TO SLEEP -- I liked it a lot, very political, very much about youth & revolution. Not as science-fictiony as WOTEOT or HE SHE AND IT but still definitely an alternate (near) future. Although it was written in the 70s, taking place in the late 70s early 80s as a possible future. HE SHE AND IT -- very, very good. If you like cyberpunk, are a librarian, interested in information or gender issues, or like Jewish imagery, this would be of interest. Her other works are all realistic in nature but pretty good. Everything I've read by her rates from "pretty well" to "one of my all-time favorites". On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Janet E. Essency wrote: > As you happened to mention Marge Piercy in your annoucement about this > list, I thought I would throw out a question to the group(Is there one > yet?) about her. > I have never read anything by her. One of the people I work with is so > gung-ho about her that she arranged for her to come to campus next > month. So what do anothers think about her as a writer? And hasn't she > only written a couple of books that can be classified as SF? > Am interested in any & all opinions. Janet > Laura M. Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ "If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution." -- Emma Goldman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:29:03 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Liz Henry Subject: Marge Piercy She is a great poet, too-- one of my favorites along with Anne Hebert Liz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:23:58 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Marge Piercy Janet, I saw your question on the feministsf list. As far as I can tell, yes, she has only written two books that could be classified as science fiction: HE, SHE AND IT and WOMAN ON THE EDGE OF TIME. Both are well worth reading, particularly the latter. I haven't looked at it for years, and now that it's the 90s suspect it might read as hopelessly idealistically in parts, but when I read it in the late 70s, I thought it marvellous--interesting, moving, frightening, thought-provoking. Well worth a try. HE, SHE AND IT is a little more difficult to quantify. I think it's a good novel--a well-written, always interesting retelling/revisiting of the Golem of Prague story--but the background appears to be lifted wholesale, without criticism, from Gibson's work, which in my opinion is a mistake. And it bothered me that Piercy thanks Gibson so profusely in the foreword (or introduction, or preface, or whatever she calls it). I would still recommend it, though. One of her non-sf works I'd also recommend is SMALL CHANGES--a much, much better (and earlier) version of THE WOMEN'S ROOM. I'm quite envious of you getting to meet her next month, and of you having the pleasure of reading her work for the first time. Enjoy. Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:28:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robin Gordon Subject: Re: Marge Piercy In-Reply-To: <970327162357_-834868117@emout13.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Janet and Nicola, Having more recently read Woman on the Edge of Time and Small Changes, the non-science fiction book Nicola mentioned, I have to concur that both are very dated. I loved He, She and It for the exploration of artificial intelligence/life issues from a woman's perspective. I've recommended it to many women friends who all appreciated it, even those who don't regularly read sci-fi (I know, they must be forgiven.). And on a political note I have to say I appreciated the visibility of lesbian characters in He, She and It (as in many of Piercy's other work). Something I value greatly in Nicola's work as well, having just read Slow River and Ammonite. It may be interesting to ask Piercy about her experiences as a general fiction writer who has written two pieces of very popular and highly respected science fiction. While science fiction is not her principal genre is there something compelling about the power to speculate and extrapolate into the future which appeals to feminist authors? I'm also thinking of Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, which is another example of a feminist author 'occasionally' writing science fiction. Happy to have joined the list, Robin. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:53:23 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Re: Marge Piercy Robin, yes, that would be an interesting question for Piercy, plus this one: How does she feel about her publishers (in the UK, anyhow) refusing to acknowledge that she *does* write SF; and refusing (or perhaps just neglecting) to add to her bio the fact that she has won the Arthur C. Clarke Award. This is something I'd also like to ask Theodore Roszak, whose MEMOIRS OF ELIZABETH FRANKENSTEIN won last year's Tiptree award, but whose publishers, again, made no mention of that fact when the book was reprinted in trade paperback format. I get so tired of this ridiculous double-think on the part of literary snobs: SF is no good, therefore if this SF book *is* good, it's not SF. End of rant. Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "M. Daphne Kutzer" Organization: SUNY at Plattsburgh, New York, USA Subject: Re: Marge Piercy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: 27-MAR-1997 19:40:58 I've re-read "Woman on the Edge of Time" fairly recently, and although it is dated in some respects, it isn't in others--the attention to class and race, for one thing. And I still find the utopian world fairly appealing, although not v. likely. I'm less taken with "He, She and It." Yes, a nice reworking of the Golem story, but I thought the characterizations were rather thin. I agree w. Nicola's comment about the snobbishness of publishers. This is true not only where SF is concerned. There are plenty of writers out there who write for both children and for adults, but publishers shudder at mentioning juvenile publications on the jacket of an adult book. The fear is, I suppose, that adults will not buy anything by a "children's" author. So I guess "real literary folks" won't buy stuff from someone who is an SF author? And they may be right about this. I'm thinking of Atwood and my colleagues' reponses to her. (We have a BIG Canadian studies dept here, being only 15 miles from the border). To a person they HATE "Handmaid's Tale", seeing it as being propagandistic and non-literary. In fact, although "Cat's Eye" and "Surfacing" get taught pretty frequently around here in Canadian Lit classes (as do many of her wonderful short stories), "HT" gets taught by those of us teaching women's studies courses. I don't think Atwood would have the reputation she does today if she'd started with "HT" and gotten herself branded as a writer of speculative fiction. Daphne M.Daphne Kutzer Professor of English State University of New York "A word after a word after Plattsburgh, NY 12901 A word is power." voicemail: 518-564-2427 (Margaret Atwood) fax: 518-564-2140 email: kutzerdm@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:30:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Judith A. Little" Subject: Marge Piercy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I too envy Janet for having the opportunity to meet Piercy. My questions for Piercy would be: What do you think of the current state of Feminist Fiction, particularly Sci Fi? Which Fem Sci Fi authors do you read? Piercy writes such powerful poetry. One thing that surprised me about WOTEOT and He, She, and It was that she didn't incorporate poetry, say, like LeGuin did in Coming Home. Enjoying the conversation, Judith ************************************************************************* Dr. Judith Ann Little Philosophy Department SUNY-Potsdam Potsdam, NY 13676-2294 littleja@potsdam.edu *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Judith A. Little" Subject: Mainstream Fiction vs. Sci Fi, Children's Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Following up on Daphne's comments, did anyone else know that LeGuin writes children's fiction? She's often published in Cricket magazine for 8-12 year olds, and has written several children's books that fall in the gender-bender category. (I know because I keep buying them for my 8 year-old grandson!) Judith ************************************************************************* Dr. Judith Ann Little Philosophy Department SUNY-Potsdam Potsdam, NY 13676-2294 littleja@potsdam.edu *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:47:13 GMT0BST Reply-To: s.r.d.french@leeds.ac.uk Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Steven French Organization: University of Leeds Subject: Re: Marge Piercy Although WOTEOT might seem dated I found it interesting that a colleague of mine (who knows more about these things than I) agreed that it might be classed as 'post-modern' because it leaves us in a state of suspension as to whether the central protagonist really does travel to and from the future or is just mad (there's a kind of 'existential modality' involved, to throw in some jargon). I remember a long argument with an American friend over this - she thought the woman was clearly just mad, but then she had a bit of an antipathy to sf. The first Marge Piercy I ever read was one whose title now escapes me but it was about a woman who did judo. It contains a passage about the arrogance of rejecting someone's love for you which made a deep impression on me. Cheers, Steven s.r.d.french@leeds.ac.uk http://www.leeds.ac.uk/philosophy/staff/french/french.htm '... the possibility that one of the identical twins Mike and Ike is in the quantum state E1 and the other in the quantum state E2 does not include two differentiable cases which are permuted on permuting Mike and Ike; it is impossible for either of these individuals to retain his identity so that one of them will always be able to say "I'm Mike" and the other "I'm Ike." Even in principle one cannot demand an alibi of an electron!' (H. Weyl, The Theory of Groups and Quantum Mechanics, 1931, p. 241) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: Marge Piercy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (forwarding this for someone - Sean, I'll fix your account ASAP ) -- friendly list administrator, Laura Quilter --------------------------------------------- Nicola, About the "rant": are you a Dennis Miller fan? -Sean Johnston On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Nicola Griffith wrote: > Robin, yes, that would be an interesting question for Piercy, plus this one: > How does she feel about her publishers (in the UK, anyhow) refusing to > acknowledge that she *does* write SF; and refusing (or perhaps just > neglecting) to add to her bio the fact that she has won the Arthur C. Clarke > Award. This is something I'd also like to ask Theodore Roszak, whose MEMOIRS > OF ELIZABETH FRANKENSTEIN won last year's Tiptree award, but whose > publishers, again, made no mention of that fact when the book was reprinted > in trade paperback format. I get so tired of this ridiculous double-think on > the part of literary snobs: SF is no good, therefore if this SF book *is* > good, it's not SF. End of rant. > > Nicola > > Nicola Griffith > http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:39:45 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Angela Carter question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anybody help this guy? Dan Wood is looking for a biography of Angela Carter, or recordings of her material ... On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 web_mailer@uic.edu wrote: > Name: dan Wood > Email: dwood@emory.edu > > I am a: sf fan\0researcher > I found this page by looking for: science fiction > > My comment concerns: question\0comment > OK to post on bulletin board: bulletin board OK > Please respond sometime soon, please > > My comments are: > Hello sci/fi guys and gals > I have two questions about Angela Carter. > The first is whether there is a biography out about her. > The second is whether there was ever a radio production made of her radio > plays. If so, where could I obtain recordings of those radio plays? > Any help would be great. I have been a fan of Angela's for years. > > Take care, > > Dan > Laura M. Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ "If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution." -- Emma Goldman --SAB18622.859337440/piglet.cc.uic.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Judith A. Little" Subject: Influence of Sci Fi on Women Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Christine Roane's project sounds interesting. She appears to be emphasizing positive influences and this made me wonder if others were negatively influenced by early Sci Fi...I was. In my teens I read 1930's - early 1960's Sci Fi, which generally portrayed women as empty-headed, scantily clad sex objects. The few fully clothed women were described either as coy, submissive, though attractive, women more interested in trapping a husband than in saving the universe or plain, irritating, domineering women no man would want. I can't recall a female character in Robert Heinlein's works whose goal in life was anything other than marriage. Even Asimov's (my favorite author) intelligent robot-specialist character, Dr. Calvin, was weird--she didn't want to marry but preferred robots to humans. I.e., early Sci Fi definitely reinforced patriarchal stereotypes and attitudes about women. I was already an adult by the time Star Trek appeared. But the female characters on ST didn't depart too much from the same stereotypes. Judith ************************************************************************* Dr. Judith Ann Little Philosophy Department SUNY-Potsdam Potsdam, NY 13676-2294 littleja@potsdam.edu *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:44:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: sue hagedorn Subject: Re: Women's lib and Bujold In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970326082953.2d97d83e@academic.truman.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought the members of this listserv might be interested in the following discussion on the IAFA list. Someone remarked about her students' rejection of what seemed to be the return to the "subjection" of women in Bujold's works. >I do think I know where the reaction you note in >your students is coming from. Partly, it's the inverse reaction of >quite a lot of history when women were told that getting married and >raising kids was the only thing they could do; you're students (was this >in the last section of SF you taught?) are, at a guess, only recently >exposed to feminist history and still reacting strongly because of it. >I know that's how I would probably have reacted at that age (not so long >ago), andit doesn't really surprise me. >Another big factor is, quite frankly, that many of them are now being >socialized to reject the arbirtrariness of such gender role assignments >and being told, with our society's higher value on wage-earning over >child-rearing, that it really is a waste of their time to raise >children. It is, after all, the world's oldest, unremunerated >(financially) profession. >Yes, I agree -- it's not a very highly paid profession (in money), but >-- from my own experience -- it has its own rewards, and I hope to keep >on pointing this out to my students. While reading the discussion above, I couldn't help but remember what happened when I attending an SF writing seminar YEARS ago on the west coast. We had just moved to town, my husband was a brand-new asst. prof., and we had our first, brand-new mortgage which was killing us--and of course, I couldn't find a professional job for awhile--money was tight! My babysitter was suddenly unavailable, and since I was NOT going to miss the seminar, I attended, two-year-old in tow. I sat in the back so she could roam about a bit and not bother anyone, but I got up my courage to ask a question of a female writer (one of my favorites) on the panel who had grown children. I asked her how on earth she had managed to find the time to write. Her reply? Just let your housekeeper take care of the kids! The "toddler" is now 19, and I'll have to admit it took about half of that time before I could pick up my FORMER favorite writer's works again! Getting back to Bujold, I can understand the initial reaction too, but that initial reaction can be used and played off of to uncover the strengths of the female characters. Just picture the strength Miles' mother displayed to, as a female enemy officer, marry an important member of the aristocracy--and over the years totally subvert many of the prejudices against females in the ruling family! Strength of character and courage of convictions don't have to be dominating and overpowering. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: sue hagedorn Subject: Re: Influence of Sci Fi on Women In-Reply-To: <19970328164511.7819.qmail@ns.potsdam.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Christine Roane's project sounds interesting. She appears to be >emphasizing positive influences and this made me wonder if others were >negatively influenced by early Sci Fi...I was. I too grew up on the Heinlein juveniles. When my daughters insisted they wouldn't read a story "without a heroine," I looked back over Podkayne of Mars and was appalled! I think, though,I avoided too much negative influence because my reading also covered Norton fantasies, Ace Doubles, and the Swallows and Amazons series--all of which had SOME strong women--and when I read Heinline, I was constantly but silently rewriting the "hero" part for ME! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:29:55 -0500 Reply-To: roane@mail.map.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: christine roane Organization: Preferred Company Subject: Re: Influence of Sci Fi on Women MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith A. Little wrote: > > Christine Roane's project sounds interesting. She appears to be > emphasizing positive influences and this made me wonder if others were > negatively influenced by early Sci Fi...I was. In my teens I read 1930's - > early 1960's Sci Fi, which generally portrayed women as empty-headed, > scantily clad sex objects. The few fully clothed women were described > either as coy, submissive, though attractive, women more interested in > trapping a husband than in saving the universe or plain, irritating, > domineering women no man would want. I can't recall a female character in > Robert Heinlein's works whose goal in life was anything other than > marriage. Even Asimov's (my favorite author) intelligent robot-specialist > character, Dr. Calvin, was weird--she didn't want to marry but preferred > robots to humans. I.e., early Sci Fi definitely reinforced patriarchal > stereotypes and attitudes about women. > > I was already an adult by the time Star Trek appeared. But the > female characters on ST didn't depart too much from the same stereotypes. > > Judith > > ************************************************************************* > Dr. Judith Ann Little Philosophy Department SUNY-Potsdam > Potsdam, NY 13676-2294 littleja@potsdam.edu > *********************************************************************** Judith, Just to let you all know, I do tend to emphasize the positive (that's just me). However, my survey DOES include exploration of negative effects on women / society - like the excellent points you raised in your post. What a savvy, lively group we have here! Christine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 12:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jeanine Pedersen Subject: Re: Influence of Sci-Fi on Women My introduction to SF was through Madeline L'Engle, who did have strong female characters and of course Asimov and Heinlein. I disagree with the premise that Dr. Susan Carter was wierd. I thought she was great -- I loved the idea that you didn't have to play with dolls & could just tinker with stuff. I was only disapointed by the short story "Liar" (I think that was the name of it) where she has a crush on another scientist. Heinlein's female characters could be a little questionable -- some were very strong and others... yuck! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:53:46 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "L. Timmel Duchamp" Subject: Angela Carter biography For Angela Carter's biography, I recommend checking out two anthologies of articles & interviews (which range from biography to criticism): _The Review of Contemporary Fiction_ issue on Angela Carter and Tadeusz Knowicki, Fall, 1994 (Vol. 14, #3), and _Flesh and the Mirror: Essays on the Art of Angela Carter_, edited by Lorna Sage (Virago Press, London, 1994). The pieces in each volume range along a spectrum, include a lot of bibliographical references, & many times personal anecdotes by the authors who knew her personally. Timmi Duchamp (L. Timmel Duchamp) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Re: Marge Piercy Am I a Dennis Miller fan? Uh, no, Sean, not especially.... Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:07:33 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Qhyrrae Michaelieu Subject: Re: Influence of Sci Fi on Women Comments: To: sue hagedorn In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi I also grew up on Heinlein and other writers that had no positive female characters. Only gradually did it dawn on me what a misogynist Heinlein was. His female characters started out as strong women, to be admired because they were different from most women (Yeah, what a compliment, Yuck), but usually by the end of the story, these "strong" women ended up being male objectified fantisies. I also identified with the male protagonists. I wonder how that affects one's sense of being a woman, when the positive role models you have are almost all male. Does it lead to a rejection of the female or a transcendence of gender? But now almost all of what I read is written about women characters and written by women. I see it as the need to redress all the old imbalances of what was available when I was a kid. Cheers Qhyrrae Michaelieu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:38:02 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "L. Timmel Duchamp" Subject: Angela Carter Biography Apologies to all if this gets posted twice. I tried posting it this morning, apparently to no avail. This is my second attempt. For Angela Carter's biography, I recommend checking out two anthologies of articles & interviews (which range from biography to criticism): _The Review of Contemporary Fiction_ issue on Angela Carter and Tadeusz Knowicki, Fall, 1994 (Vol. 14, #3), and _Flesh and the Mirror: Essays on the Art of Angela Carter_, edited by Lorna Sage (Virago Press, London, 1994). The pieces in each volume range along a spectrum, include a lot of bibliographical references, & many times personal anecdotes by the authors who knew her personally. Timmi Duchamp (L. Timmel Duchamp) vi =========================================================================