========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:30:26 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: hard/soft science, technology & cyborgs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 May 1997 10:53:14 -0500 Martha Bartter wrote: > >farah. > > > "Technobabble" -- wow, what a pejorative term! We do need to > remember that Heinlein more or less invented the space suit as > currently used by NASA et al., and his "waldo" invention has > not only been "borrowed" but even named as he did. (Like A.C. > Clarke, whose invention of a geosynchronous satellite > has been credited to him, but since he never patented it, only > put it in a story, he didn't get any money for it. He also > described "metal fatigue" before the airplanes really started > falling out of the sky, if I remember correctly -- _Glide Path_ > is even a pretty good book.) I am not disputing Heinlein's role in describing technology but for me that is not the real interest and it is noticeable that the later the books the less technology seems to be in them. I disagree generally with you saying he does little with his societies but I suspect that my feelings are unquantifiable. I just know that Heinlien managed to have a bigger impact on my sexual mores than he did on my interest in science. > I thought the crowning insult was his suggestion that > everyone have to solve a quadratic equation in the voting > booth before it would allow anyone to vote...math does NOT > equal political sense I sort of agree, but at the same time I am again aware that it was Heinlein who taught me that girls could (and should) be good at maths too, and drove me on to enjoy maths. it is still my regret that I allowed others to persuade me out of it. Heinlein taught me that maths could be fun. I understand why you think I used "technobabble" perjoratively, but as a hard-sf fan, it was meant to be affectionate. I sometimes sound like an apologist for Heinlein. I can see all his faults and think he wrote some of the worst novels in sf, but cannot avoid the fact that he made a huge impact not just on my reading but on my sense of self. Farah > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:35:44 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: Science and Sexism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 May 1997 12:35:13 -1000 Daniel L Krashin wrote: > The territory you claim for feminism seems to consist of: > Ignorance > Superstition > Religion > Fantasy Daniel, don't generalise please, there are many different feminisms. The Sokal incident, however, is also about a battle between literary and cultural studies and some of the other humanities. As a historian I am particularly at the butt of this. My department was recently criticised for not teaching enough cultural theory, but I and my colleagues have yet to meet a cultural theory we like better than old fashioned empiricism, which for all its faults, adapts well to changing world views and paradigms. We were cheering Sokal on, men and women both. Farah > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:39:00 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: Science and Sexism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 May 1997 20:16:50 -0400 Heather MacLean wrote: > From: Heather MacLean > Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 20:16:50 -0400 > Subject: Re: Science and Sexism > To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > > You know, y'all fly off the handle pretty quickly. My very first post on > this subject was purposefully argued from a linguistic stance. If you'd > like, we can just go more connotative: > _hard_ science, versus _soft_ science. Now you tell me that choice of > adjectives is not somehow significant. > Heather, whatever you think about lingusitics, your objective reality is that you are talking to us on a piece of "hard-ware", the product of "hard-science" actually a euphemism for technology. The same would be true if you were using a pencil. Does this mean that a computer or a pencil is sexist? The rule I would use is "garbage in, garbage out/sexism in, sexism out" .Nothing instrinsic about it. farah ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:54:00 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: Like Water for Chocolate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri, 2 May 1997 22:11:05 -0400 Hope Cascio wrote: > Magical realism is just like a realistic novel, except that certain > miraculous or magical things happen and are taken as no more than just > slightly weird. It's a little like my personal view of really good sf: the > idea is to find out how humans behave, how they're still human, even in > unusual circumstances, like working in a lunar colony, or as a vr hacker. The > emphasis is not on the magic/science, it's on the people. If Allende's novel > were about the clairvoyance of the women, it would be boring. It's really > about the family, and Allende uses the magic as a literary device. > > I hope that helped! > > Hope Cascio Hope, this is a great definition, there are just one or two snags. As far as I can tell, this would mean that many of Joan Aiken's short stories for children (see the collection All and More) would be magic realism, as would Diana Wynne Jones Chrestomanci series. This might actually be a good thing. I usuallly describe them to people by explaining that the magic is taken for granted, maybe magic realism could be the shorthand? Farah ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:02:26 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: what do students read? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon, 5 May 1997 13:50:34 -0500 Neil Rest wrote: > The > combination of immensely wide access (with however many millions of people > online), very narrow bandwidth, and complete control of exactly what is > transmitted puts us in a new area in inferring from a communication. > > > Neil Rest Top of which is that we are middle class (whether by birth or association with a university/high school) and can afford computer access. Farah ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:03:24 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: Female cyborgs? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun, 4 May 1997 21:14:19 -0400 Hope Cascio wrote: > > In a message dated 97-05-03 14:21:48 EDT, you write: > > << >not, alas, sexually revolutionary.Can anyone think of other female > cyborgs > >in the movies?Do things pan out any better??? > > I can't seem to think of any. Why is that? >> > > I can think of one: Ghost in the Machine, a Japanese anime film. Main > character is a female cyborg who's an assassin. Very male-identified > character, it seemed. > Hope The female cyborg in the new Star Trek film, although she, as usual, is just panting for a male. Farah. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:03:57 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michelle Kendrick In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970502143917.0068b5a0@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, I'm just joining your list -- so before I jump into the fray, let me introduce myself. I'm an assistant professor of English at Washington State Univeristy, Vancouver. My area is the cultural study of technology. Specifically, I examine the relationship between technology and subjectivity (identity). I teach in a new degree program here called Electronic Communication and Culture, which explores (in part) the social, educational, economic impact of new computer technologies. I am writing to contribute (better late than never) to the science studies thread. But more importantly, I am writing to ask permission.... This summer I am teaching a class on Women Writers. I've chosen to teach women writing speculative fiction. My reading list includes: Frankenstein, Herland, the Female Man, He, she, it and Slow River (by Griffith). I'm also including short stories from the anthology _The Lifted Veil: The book of Fantastic Literature by Women_ and _Women at War_. I have 19 students in the class (juniors and seniors) and I was hoping to have them "lurk" on this list -- to see the kinds of issues, arguments, discussions that educated individuals have on these topics. I didn't want to do this, however, without asking "list" permission. I would, of course, give them lessons in netiquete, and have them sign off the list at the courses end. Any comments? Worries? Advice? Michelle PS: On the science questions: I've grown a bit weary -- in studying the "social studies of science and technology" of the reality vs social constructivism debate. This is not to say that I do not recognize the importance of examining _what_ it is that science does, and the important impact of social issues, concerns, on science. Nor is it to say that I believe Science tells us absolute truths, at all times. I've grown weary of people dropping pencils (to illustrate the laws of gravity) and saying, "explain THAT!). Sigh. I think the most eloquent thing I've heard on the subject came from Bruno Latour who when questioned about truth claims in science said, "I know it's true; I want to know how its made." Science "makes" truths. That is, it uncovers certain things in the physical world and constructs narratives to make sense of those discoveries. Not all narratives will hold up; and like all narratives, they are susceptible to the ideologies of their times. So while there is validity in questioning scientific narratives to uncover the ideological assumptions buried within -- it is nonsense to criticize all "Science" as inherently this or that (sexist or capitalist or racist...). _______________________________________________________________ Michelle R. Kendrick Assistant Professor of English Washington State University 14204 NE Salmon Creek Avenue Vancouver, Washington 98686 (360)546-9645 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:06:00 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Lurking Students I don't have a problem with lurking students. And Michelle: if I can help in any way with the SLOW RIVER stuff, let me know. Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:27:46 BST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: farah mendlesohn Subject: Re: your mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 May 1997 14:03:57 -0700 Michelle Kendrick wrote: > > I have 19 students in the class (juniors and seniors) and I was hoping to > have them "lurk" on this list -- to see the kinds of issues, arguments, > discussions that educated individuals have on these topics. I didn't want > to do this, however, without asking "list" permission. I would, of > course, give them lessons in netiquete, and have them sign off the list > at the courses end. Michelle, I for one would be *honoured* to have your students a part of this list. Please don't ask them to just lurk. Your course sounds fascinating and they could contribute a great deal. As long as they understand the orientation of the list, I do not see that we should start establishing hierarchies. > > Science "makes" truths. That is, it uncovers certain things in the > physical world and constructs narratives to make sense of those > discoveries. Not all narratives will hold up; and like all narratives, > they are susceptible to the ideologies of their times. > > So while there is validity in questioning scientific narratives to > uncover the ideological assumptions buried within -- it is nonsense to > criticize all "Science" as inherently this or that (sexist or capitalist > or racist...). The above is extremely sensible. Thanks, Farah ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ritch Calvin Subject: Re: Female cyborgs? In-Reply-To: <970504211418_-1132332029@emout13.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry, I guess this thread is a bit old by now, but you know how the ends of semesters are... I keep coming back to an image of Sigourney Weaver. When she dons the mechanical suit at the end to fight the alien seems interesting. However, think of how often you see her with a machine of some kind. When she's blasting away at the alien mother, etc. Plus when she's in some cryo-freeze for a century. Now, I hear she's being brought back to life for #4. best, Ritch On Sun, 4 May 1997, Hope Cascio wrote: > In a message dated 97-05-03 14:21:48 EDT, you write: > > << >not, alas, sexually revolutionary.Can anyone think of other female > cyborgs > >in the movies?Do things pan out any better??? > > I can't seem to think of any. Why is that? >> > > I can think of one: Ghost in the Machine, a Japanese anime film. Main > character is a female cyborg who's an assassin. Very male-identified > character, it seemed. > Hope > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:52:11 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of the semester that we're not communicating? Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: from "Michael Marc Levy" at May 14, 97 10:52:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > the semester that we're not communicating? > > Mike Levy > I think it is that one - too exhausted and I personally and lucky if I have something interesting and intelligent to say surrounding my course work. I am reading a sci-fi book that could have been a lot better. Great idea - mediocre execution - has anyboyd read Ancient Shores by Jack McDevitt? the Van Pelt Library has an Excellent sci-fi section I am discovering. I also got the LeGuin and Slow River and Tiptree's Brightness Falls from the Air - I wish I was a kid again with an entire summer of reading stretching before me in an endless golden haze. Does anybody else have lovely memories of reading during the summer? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? Comments: cc: Michael Marc Levy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > the semester that we're not communicating? I expect the latter. I have just started _Ammonite_ and I'm thoroughly tied up in there when I'm not at work... Before that was a re-read of _Sideshow_ predicated by a first read of _Raising the Stones_... :-) I've also got a large stack of books to read from suggestions on this list. :-) Pax, -allen PS. I *love* _Ammonite_ so far. [big grin] I think it'll be one of the well-thumbed books on our shelves... -- Allen Briggs - end killing - briggs@macbsd.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:39:56 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather Whipple Subject: see you at wiscon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > the semester that we're not communicating? the discussion did seem to end abruptly, didn't it? It's the end of exams here, and nobody has any more questions for the Reference Desk, it seems, so I have been filling my time this morning reading the WisCon www page. Who else is going? any interest in having an informal FeministSF listserv gathering? *************** ******************** Heather Whipple Humanities Librarian hwhipple@script.lib.indiana.edu Swarthmore College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:04:41 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: <199705141618.MAA27377@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: > > > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > > the semester that we're not communicating? > > > > Mike Levy > > > > I think it is that one - too exhausted and I personally and lucky if I > have something interesting and intelligent to say surrounding my course > work. > > I am reading a sci-fi book that could have been a lot better. Great > idea - mediocre execution - has anyboyd read Ancient Shores by Jack > McDevitt? the Van Pelt Library has an Excellent sci-fi section I am > discovering. I also got the LeGuin and Slow River and Tiptree's > Brightness Falls from the Air - I wish I was a kid again with an entire > summer of reading stretching before me in an endless golden haze. Does > anybody else have lovely memories of reading during the summer? Spooky how volatile the level of discussion is on this list huh? I'm not even a full time student and yet somehow this time period is really busy. I have project deadlines at work, a sister suddenly wisdom-toothless :), finals in class, books to read, things to do. Not to metion getting ready for WisCon (I'm so excited). Reading during the summer? I have lovely memories of reading ALL the time. Those great memories of reading in my bed at 2am on a school morning trying to hide the light (my elbows were proboably permanently damaged), of walking through the halls at school reading, of reading on the school bus, of reading at dinner (my family hated that), of reading for hours on end during car trips, of finishing a book dehydrated because I was too engrossed to remember to drink anything. Ahhh, great times. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:09:05 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: see you at wiscon? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Heather Whipple wrote: > On Wed, 14 May 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > > the semester that we're not communicating? > > the discussion did seem to end abruptly, didn't it? It's the end of exams > here, and nobody has any more questions for the Reference Desk, it seems, > so I have been filling my time this morning reading the WisCon www page. > Who else is going? any interest in having an informal FeministSF listserv > gathering? I can't wait. This will be my first Wiscon (always in shool other years). I'd love to meet the some group members. Now we just need a plan with some details. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:15:58 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ruth Ann Jones Subject: Re: see you at wiscon? Heather says: >so I have been filling my time this morning reading the WisCon www page. >Who else is going? any interest in having an informal FeministSF listserv >gathering? I'm going, and a gathering sounds like fun! Ruth Ann jonesr@pilot.msu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:22:52 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: see you at wiscon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Heather Whipple wrote: > On Wed, 14 May 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > > the semester that we're not communicating? > > the discussion did seem to end abruptly, didn't it? It's the end of exams > here, and nobody has any more questions for the Reference Desk, it seems, > so I have been filling my time this morning reading the WisCon www page. > Who else is going? any interest in having an informal FeministSF listserv > gathering? > > *************** ******************** > Heather Whipple Humanities Librarian > hwhipple@script.lib.indiana.edu Swarthmore College > I'll be there and would enjoy meeting other people from the list. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:21:37 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: <199705141618.MAA27377@mail.med.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ancient Shores started out well (and had a beautiful cover painting), but McDevitt didn't seem to know where to go with it and the all-star ending struck me as a bit silly. Mike On Wed, 14 May 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: > > > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > > the semester that we're not communicating? > > > > Mike Levy > > > > I think it is that one - too exhausted and I personally and lucky if I > have something interesting and intelligent to say surrounding my course > work. > > I am reading a sci-fi book that could have been a lot better. Great > idea - mediocre execution - has anyboyd read Ancient Shores by Jack > McDevitt? the Van Pelt Library has an Excellent sci-fi section I am > discovering. I also got the LeGuin and Slow River and Tiptree's > Brightness Falls from the Air - I wish I was a kid again with an entire > summer of reading stretching before me in an endless golden haze. Does > anybody else have lovely memories of reading during the summer? > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:19:56 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think it's been quiet ... On Wed, 14 May 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > the semester that we're not communicating? > > Mike Levy > Laura M. Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ "If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution." -- Emma Goldman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: _Ancient Shores_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Ancient Shores started out well (and had a beautiful cover painting), but >McDevitt didn't seem to know where to go with it and the all-star ending >struck me as a bit silly. > >Mike Re: the cover art. Sad to say, it's probably worth noting that not only is it a well rendered cover, but also depicts *gasp* an African-American woman on it. A real rarity, unfortunately. Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:54:00 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: summer reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >-- Joel VanLaven wrote: > Reading during the summer? I have lovely memories of reading ALL the >time. Those great memories of reading in my bed at 2am on a school >morning trying to hide the light (my elbows were proboably permanently >damaged), of walking through the halls at school reading, of reading on >the school bus, of reading at dinner (my family hated that), of reading >for hours on end during car trips, of finishing a book dehydrated because >I was too engrossed to remember to drink anything. Ahhh, great times. > Aw, you got to read in the car?!?! No fair -- I had motion sickness. (Semi-graphic comment ahead) I still can't drink cola beverages 'cause the taste makes me think of the coke syrup my mom gave me for car sickness. However, I had an isolated room and was able to read late into the night with a regular reading lamp! Too bad I have such poor vision anyway. I probably ruined it by sneaking out my door and reading in the strawberry patch in the moonlight. Best book I ever read out there: _A Wrinkle in Time_. Best book to reread every summer: _Seven Day Magic_ by Edward Eager. Gotta go find that one now. And Nesbit's _Enchanted Castle_. And Norton's _Steel Magic_. And... Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:01:44 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? Hey, glad you're liking AMMONITE. I really tried to make Jeep a place the reader could *go*. One thing I miss about so many recent books is that lack of sense of place. Ah, well. Nicola ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather Whipple Subject: Re: _Ancient Shores_ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > Re: the cover art. Sad to say, it's probably worth noting that not only is > it a well rendered cover, but also depicts *gasp* an African-American woman > on it. A real rarity, unfortunately. the latest editions of Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis trilogy have new covers--and while I like the original covers of _Adulthood Rites_ and _Imago_ better, the new cover for _Dawn_ does show a woman of African descent. *************** ******************** Heather Whipple Humanities Librarian hwhipple@script.lib.indiana.edu Swarthmore College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:16:19 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robin Gordon Subject: Oaths and Miracles In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just finished reading Nancy Kress' new, in paperback, Oaths and Miracles and wondered what other people thought of it. I was very excited starting it because I absolutely loved Beggars in Spain, and enjoyed Beggars and Choosers (but a bit less so). While I enjoyed Oaths and Miracles I was disappointed at the limited speculative elements of it. What I mean is that it's virtually set in the present and involves an interesting mystery story which revolves around scientific research. So it certainly has a science element, but otherwise involves little distance from present reality. Unlike the Beggars series which starts in the near future but then propels forward, spinning out the implications of the scientic, and subsequent social and political, changes. One thing I do have to say about Kress, she hands an ensemble of narratives from a few central characters extremely well. particularly in this book I noticed that I was equally interested in all the characters, though disappointed they were predominantly male, and impressed at the way in which the multiple narratives served the mystery elements. I noticed in a list of her publications a book called Beggars Ride. Is this a third in the Beggars in Spain and Beggars and Choosers series? I haven't seen it in my usual stores. p.s. I too yearn for a whole summer off to read read read. An activity which my father unfortunately referred to as "sitting on your ass." Lovely fellow. I particularly loved reading long series in the endless free time of the summer, David Eddings, Cherryh's Merovingen Nights series and frequently revisited confortable old Darkover books. Robin Gordon -------------------------------------- "I am the wall with the womanly swagger." Judy Grahn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:21:52 -0400 Reply-To: Joel VanLaven Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: summer reading In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: [snipped my stuff...] > Aw, you got to read in the car?!?! No fair -- I had motion sickness. > (Semi-graphic comment ahead) I still can't drink cola beverages 'cause the > taste makes me think of the coke syrup my mom gave me for car sickness. Ouch. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be stuck in a car for hours without being able to read. I imagine that I might have been like the stereotypical kids always asking "Are we there yet?". Luckily, I seem to be almost completely immune to motion sickness from gentle motions and changing lights. Interestingly enough, I don't do so well on amusement park rides (though that may be abject terror and tension rather than actual motion sickness :). I wonder if my being so easy to deal with in cars (I imagine that it's not difficult to deal with a quiet, page-flipping child) contributed to the fact that we drove long distances so much. I don't drink cola beverages either though not for that reason. I just think they taste "hard" whereas I like "soft" drinks. Who knows, maybe that's what makes them so popular, being so masculine and inherently patriarchial... :) > However, I had an isolated room and was able to read late into the night > with a regular reading lamp! Too bad I have such poor vision anyway. I > probably ruined it by sneaking out my door and reading in the strawberry > patch in the moonlight. Best book I ever read out there: _A Wrinkle in > Time_. I had a loft bed with a nice light right there. However, my parents would see the light under the door and worry about me. When I read I generally blocked out the external world so much that I didn't really notice where I was. Come to think of it, I'm like that all the time... Anyway, while reading in the moonlight in a strwberry patch sounds really cool, I doubt I would have noticed. Now the thing that gets me is being vertical or horizontal while reading. I just feel more comfortable when reading laying down, resting on my elbows, with my legs free to twitch around. For a while, I felt best when I had something over me (like a table or something) but I think I outgrew that. > Best book to reread every summer: _Seven Day Magic_ by Edward Eager. > > Gotta go find that one now. And Nesbit's _Enchanted Castle_. And Norton's > _Steel Magic_. And... Wow, 3 books I haven't read (or heard of) in close succession. I would respond with my favourites but I can never pick. Oh well. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: I figured we were all just ruminating. -nalo On Wed, 14 May 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > the semester that we're not communicating? > > Mike Levy > [So I tell my brother about being in the sf bookstores & everywhere the covers show bronze, blue and gold-skinned aliens and white humans. "What is that about," I ask him, "that the people of colour are all aliens?" And he says wryly, "Maybe they're phasing us in."] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lara Edge Subject: Darkover In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I particularly loved reading long series in the endless >free time of the summer, David Eddings, Cherryh's Merovingen Nights >series and frequently revisited confortable old Darkover books. > > Speaking of those "comfortable Darkover books:" does anyone have a list or know where I can get a list of all the Darkover titles? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:29:03 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: k dawson Subject: Re: Fallen off the list? In-Reply-To: <199705141618.MAA27377@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: > > > > Have I fallen off the list or are we just so exhausted from the end of > > the semester that we're not communicating? > > > > Mike Levy > > > > I think it is that one - too exhausted and I personally and lucky if I > have something interesting and intelligent to say surrounding my course > work. > > I am reading a sci-fi book that could have been a lot better. Great > idea - mediocre execution - has anyboyd read Ancient Shores by Jack > McDevitt? the Van Pelt Library has an Excellent sci-fi section I am > discovering. I also got the LeGuin and Slow River and Tiptree's > Brightness Falls from the Air - I wish I was a kid again with an entire > summer of reading stretching before me in an endless golden haze. Does > anybody else have lovely memories of reading during the summer? > I remember reading in the car when I was a kid and feeling cheated when the sun went down. How dare the movement of the sun interrupt my reading?! :) - Karen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Hope Cascio Subject: Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine Anyone else on here subscribe to Isaac Asimov's? The June issue just seemed _so_ inclusive... are they having a diversity month at IASFM? (Just being facetious!) Hope ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:43:12 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: DAVID CHRISTENSON Subject: Re: see you at wiscon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: David Christenson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- I'll be there, mostly in the huckster room Remember to use the secret listmember handshake... :) -- David Christenson - ldqt79a@prodigy.com "If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be." - Yogi Berra ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:52:28 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sheryl Curtis Subject: Re: summer reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Aw, you got to read in the car?!?! No fair -- I had motion sickness. >(Semi-graphic comment ahead) I still can't drink cola beverages 'cause the >taste makes me think of the coke syrup my mom gave me for car sickness. > >However, I had an isolated room and was able to read late into the night >with a regular reading lamp! Too bad I have such poor vision anyway. I >probably ruined it by sneaking out my door and reading in the strawberry >patch in the moonlight. Best book I ever read out there: _A Wrinkle in >Time_. >Best book to reread every summer: _Seven Day Magic_ by Edward Eager. > >Gotta go find that one now. And Nesbit's _Enchanted Castle_. And Norton's >_Steel Magic_. And... > > I never got to read in the car because of motion sickness (but I always had a window seat, eh?). I never had a room of my own until I moved out from home. But reading was a big thing when I grew up and Christmas and birthday presents were always books. _A Wrinkle in Time_ is the first book I read that I can actually remember the title of and I can hardly wait until my kids read English well enough (they go to French school here and start reading English in Grade 4) so I can give it to them. As for the other three books, I'll have to look them up. Sher Montreal, Quebec ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:42:15 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: _Ancient Shores_ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 14 May 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > >Ancient Shores started out well (and had a beautiful cover painting), but > >McDevitt didn't seem to know where to go with it and the all-star ending > >struck me as a bit silly. > > > >Mike > > Re: the cover art. Sad to say, it's probably worth noting that not only is > it a well rendered cover, but also depicts *gasp* an African-American woman > on it. A real rarity, unfortunately. > > > Maryelizabeth Apparently the depiction of African American women on sf covers is no longer taboo. When Butler's Dawn first came out it was notorious for having an ivory white female character on the cover, despite having a black protagonist. Now, the beautifully done illustration for the new paperback edition shows an African American woman. By the way, anyone who hasn't read Dawn, Imago, and Adulthood Rites by Octavia Butler should buy them in their new paperback editions now. They aren't likely to remain in print all that long. Mike