"FEMINISTSF LOG9707B" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:18:34 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970707061947.0106711c@idirect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, David Silver wrote: > Then one day she got seriously ill and spent three weeks in the hospital. > When she got home I initiated our litany, "What are you going to do when > you grow up?" Her reply was "I'm going to be a nurse." I asked her why and > she said "Men are doctors and girls are nurses", which is what she had > observed in the hospital. I immediately scoured Toronto for a female > pediatrician and spent the next fifteen years encouraging her to pursue her > own interests without regard to society's, or my expectations. She is > entering law school this coming fall. > I will always be greatful to my dad for treating me as an intelligent human being and not a "girl". He went to great lengths to be sure I would be an independent person and not so dependant, like my mother. It was him, and not my mother, who showed me all the infinite possibilities in life. When I was only about 9 years old he introduced me to Ray Bradybury (gave me a copy of "The Wicked This Way Come") and I was nuts about Bradbury for a long long time. In fact he was a great influence in my own writing. My brother was never inclined toward anything intellectual or cultural and my father put his efforts into encouraging my creativity and interests along those lines. I did not marry until I was 34, which was , to me, a great advantage. When I think of all that I would have missed had I married in my early twenties, like to many others. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:20:38 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bonnie Gray Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Ah, I can hear everyone groaning now "Not ANOTHER reply to this subject!" Or maybe I just hear the sounds of people deleting me off their email list after glancing at the subject. But here goes: I am a PhD candidate in electrical engineering. My emphasis is micro-electro-mechanical systems (MEMS). I attend UC Davis. I got my MS in Elec. Engineering from Berkeley studying Robotics. I love science fiction; I can't remember not loving it. My mother is a librarian, so I was introduced to the joys of reading early on. I'd love to write it, and I have dabbled in that, but, honestly, I don't have the time to put into that tremendous endeavor. I am very impressed especially by the published authors on this list! I have only published technical papers in my field. I am very happy I found this list, since my feminism didn't blossom until early adult-hood and now I wear "feminist" as a badge of honor! :) And what could possibly be better, combining feminism with science and speculative fiction!? Keep the cool stuff coming, Bonnie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:31:16 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amanda Clarke Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Kate Bolin wrote: > > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Random Person: I'm a statistician. I have degrees in statistics (surprisingly) and resource management. I work for Statistics NZ (again, surprisingly) in the Govt Sector division. I'm not a student, a college professor, nor do I write sf. But I have enjoyed watching sf on tv. My earliest memories of TV programmes were: Star Trek, Logan's Run, Dr Who, Space 1999, UFO etc. And I've also been reading sf since I was young - picking up my sister's interest. Like a lot of people I also read Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury, Ursula Le Guin, Andre Norton & others. But lamented the lack of good strong feminist characters. So, I welcome the opportunity to discover women sf writers and feminist science fiction. Has anybody read _The Net_ by Loren MacGregor? Amanda __________________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:03:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Elizabeth Pandolfo Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Drawn out of lurking by the bravery of others, I'd like to introduce myself. Right now I'm a budding student (again; got an MA 2 years ago), starting Ph.D work this fall in children's literature. I'm married, with 4 cats (my husband is also on this list--Allen Briggs). I'm also a neophyte computer person, mastering HTML and the creation of web pages, and planning on learning VRML soon. I've been a feminist since I entered college, but I recently have had revelations about just how subtle the oppression of women really is, even among those who are learned and try not to support that behavior. This revelation came right before I read Nicola Griffith's Ammonite, which had a profound effect on me (I highly recommend it). I've appreciated the thoughtful discussions and recommendations given on this list (I've been lurking since March), and they've helped me greatly in my thoughts and my research. I've only become entranced with fantasy and SF in the past few years, become a fan of Star Trek in the past 2 years, and become a fan of Bab5 in the past week. =-> My Ph.D work will focus on Celtic mythology and YA fantasy and SF, looking for a more feminist alternative to the heroic quest narrative structure in the mythology, and how that may be incorporated in contemporary British YA fantasy and SF novels, depending on the author's gender. I also research Japanese children's books dealing with WWII and the bombings, and children's hypermedia and theories of children and technology. If anyone's interested in these topics, I'd love to discuss them off-list. Elizabeth -- Elizabeth L. Pandolfo/Briggs pandolfo@macbsd.com http://www.macbsd.com/~pandolfo/index.html "Whatever happens, believe that the journey is worth taking..." --Peth, "Seaward" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:10:08 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: MARINA YERESHENKO Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sean, University of Oklahoma is in Norman. It's the school where Anita Hill was a law professor until they forced her to quit in the middle of last Fall. Marina On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: > Marina, > Is the U at Stillwater or Norman? > > -Sean > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:49:56 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather MacLean Subject: DeColores project addy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.netgsi.com/~obelesk/DeColores.html Enjoy... (nalo passed it on to me, so it's only fair that i pass it on as well... =) Heather (avid reader of sf, all kinds--teach french sf and surrealism, supremely interested in the links between language and visualization in the reading process...) hmaclean@kent.edu http://kent.edu/~hmaclean/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:39:24 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: joanna goltzman Subject: Re: Imperfect matriarchal societies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This message was mailed to me, so I'm forwarding it to the list -- Joanna >On 6 Jul 97 , joanna goltzman wrote: >> One thing I really liked about _The Maerlande Chronicles_ is that it >> is about a matriarchal society with problems. The society's >> drawbacks make it believable and more interesting, to me, at least, >> than a "perfect" society (utopia). Anyone know of more imperfect >> matriarchal societies I could read about? > >What about 'The Women's Shore' (if that is the English title) by >Pamela Sargent? It plays in a post-catastrophique future in which the >women live in comfortable cities, the men, controlled by the women, >outside. The control goes so far that the men do not even know about >it (they think the women are goddesses). However, the point of the >story is not to show how a women-only society works. Most of the >book plays outside of the cities. I liked the book a lot. > >The next try is, of course, 'Ammonite' by Nicola Griffith. I have >read the book several times and love it. > > >On the 'Who's on the list' thread: > >I am a mechanical engineer who works in the field of the >environmental impact assessment of energy systems. Parallelly I try >to finish my Ph.D. thesis (getting a Ph.D. in Germany works >differently from the U.S., one is (more or less) fully employed by >the University and does research projects, no course work)). I also >work unpaid in the Stuttgart rape center. I am nearly 33, German (any >other Germans out there on the list?), heterosexual, a feminist for >some years. My first 'feminist' science fiction was 'The left hand of >darkness', which made a huge impression on me at 16. I rediscovered >feminst science fiction 4 years ago and by now have read a lot of it. >Thanks to Laura Quilter, her homepage helped me a lot in hunting down >the relevant titles in the bookstores and libraries. Somebody else >stated in her introduction, that she has never met a fan of feminist >science fiction in person. The same is (nearly) true for me. I am >really glad that I found this discussion list. > >Petra > >** Petra Mayerhofer ** pm@ier.uni-stuttgart.de ** > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:42:43 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bronwen Turner Organization: NCHECR Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970707094152.006aa5a0@tezcat.com> Neil Rest said You DO know the Worldcon is going back to Melbourne in two years, don't you? I ask just to double-check; it would be too much of a shame to get the news too late! Neil Neil, Oh dear, do I have to express my ignorance so soon after de-lurking? I have no idea what Worldcon is, or that it will be in Melbourne in a couple of years. Is these a contact for more information?. I'm always keen on a good talkfest!! Bronwen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:43:10 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bronwen Turner Organization: NCHECR Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <199707070556.PAA13386@sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU> Amanda Elliot said Hi all I'm also 'de-lurking' I only found out about this list a few weeks ago so I guess I'm a newbie too. I'm a postgrad student (Sociology) at the Uni of New SOuth Wales (Sydney, Australia) and have been reading SF and fantasy since I was a kid. I think my mum was petrified I would start to read those teenage romance novels, and quickly went on the offensive with Tolkien & Susan Cooper. I have never looked back! My tastes are fairly eclectic and while I have read some of the classic SF/ utopian books (aswell as being a rampant star trek fan), its mainly fantasy that I'm into and can never find enough good feminist books or even strong women characters to read about. I'm in the final year of my doctoral thesis so I never really find the time to read as much as I'd like to anyway. I'm also involved in an organisation called The Women's Library, a volunteer run, non-funded feminist library (with a collection of over 12000 books that have all been donated). It has a reasonable collection of SF/fantasy books, that I'm slowly working my way through. I'm really enjoying the discussions Cheers Mandy Amanda Elliot Social Policy Research Centre University of New South Wales Kensington, NSW 2052 ph: 385 3845 fax: 385 1049 Mandy, I was wondering last night whether there were any other Sydneysiders on the list, as I was going to suggest that we start a reading group. I can see that you won't be a starter until after the thesis is finished, but maybe you'll be interested in some recreational discussion then. Any one else interested?? Bronwen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:08:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Elizabeth Pandolfo Subject: Re: finding . . . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm going to be doing my Ph.D work at the University of Wales, Cardiff starting this September. I can't participate in the web work (sigh) but I'd be willing to search for, procure, and ship British books that people want. Elizabeth On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Laura Quilter wrote: >Actually, people have suggested this to me via correspondence regarding >the feminist-sf web pages. I don't have the time to point into organizing >it, but I do suspect that there is interest, especially for trans-oceanic >exchanges. I know that I would be very, very willing to pay for copies of >ILLICIT PASSAGE by Alice Nunn (from Women's Redress Press in Australia) if >only I could get some out here. > >If someone else wants to do the work I'll be happy to provide whatever >supporting services (web space, for instance) are required. > >On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Neil Rest wrote: > >> So for a while, I've been wondering about suggesting to this list some sort >> of book-exchange or shoppping-service arrangement. I have no particular >> organizational details in mind, more general friendly functionality. I >> recently got a good copy of _Left Hand of Darkness_, with the original >> Dillon cover; early Delaney turns up regularly; there's often a bunch of >> Tepper. There was a complete run of the _Orbit_ series on the specials >> shelf not too long ago. >> >> What do people think? -- Elizabeth L. Pandolfo/Briggs pandolfo@macbsd.com http://www.macbsd.com/~pandolfo/index.html "Whatever happens, believe that the journey is worth taking..." --Peth, "Seaward" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: MARINA YERESHENKO Subject: Re: Master i Margarita Comments: To: Nalo Hopkinson In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nalo, I really meant _Brave New World_. I always have trouble with original titles becouse I read most of them in Russian, and they often change the title while translating the book. I never read _1984_, though. Isn't it by George Orwell? It might be funny, but when I read _Brave New World_ (I was about 12) I found the society there strangely attractive. The fact that they all were happy, because each caste was convinced that their place in hierarchy was the best one. I don't think so anymore but I used to. I also liked the fact that the most intelligent people, the one who chose to rebel against status quo, were not killed, but instead became part of those who ruled the world. It was kind of ironic that the intention to destroy the system was the reason to be put on the top of it. If anyone read the book please tell me what you think about it. Marina On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Nalo Hopkinson wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, MARINA YERESHENKO wrote:> > > Zamiatin's _We_ is about an anti-utopical future society, where > > everything is strictly regulated. > >_We_ is often compared with _The Great New World_. > > NH: _Brave New World?_ That's one I have still to read. I was told that > _We_ was the inspiration for H. G. Wells's _1984._ > > -nalo > > > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." > -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, > "Nature's Pictures," 1656 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:19:48 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Nancy A. Horn" Subject: Re: meeting other femsf readers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just forwarded your comment to Vonda. She'll be very happy to hear you liked the book. nancy At 02:59 PM 7/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >>nancy commented: >>Imagine finding you here. I'm the friend of Vonda McIntyre's. Remember me. >> >>buzz buzz > >See? We may be scattered world wide, but it IS possible for two or more of >us to meet! (To sorta comment on an earlier comment...) > >Speaking of Vonda, her new work, _The Moon and the Sun_, is the most >compelling novel I've read this summer!! > > > >Maryelizabeth >Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 >3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 >San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX >http://www.mystgalaxy.com > > www.crl.com/~yashmak/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:38:22 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <199707071953.PAA22943@mail.med.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A roll call? Okay I'm an English professor at the University of Wisconsin-Stout--middle-aged, hetro, white, male--I teach science fiction and children's literature and write about both with some regularity. Just finished teaching a course on SF and gender. Just wrote an essay called Ophelia Triumphant: The Survival of Teenaged Girls in Recent SF by Octavia Butler and Jack Womack, which will be published next year. The essay reflects my recent reading of Mary Pipher's Reviving Ophelia and the fact that I have a 10 year old daughter who's already on the ragged edge of puberty. I guess I was a feminist long before I was consciously aware of the concept. My mother has degrees in math and physics, worked on the Manhattan project during WWII, and later taught in the Chicago Public Schools. I grew up in a middle-class Jewish neighborhood where all the girls I knew and eventually dated simply assumed that they were going to college and then on to professional level jobs. As a kid and young adult I don't doubt that I was occasionally guilty of the kind of casual sexism that was so ubiquitous in the 50s, 60s and 70s, but I think that, on a gut level, I always pretty much assumed that women were as smart and competent as men. By the time I was in graduate school any last vestiges of obvious sexism were generally pretty much beaten out of me by various female friends and colleagues. Now my wife and daughter handle that job. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:26:52 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Lizzie Lynn In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > Lynn has a new book due out in the fall NH: She does?! O, frabjous day! I'm chortling, I'm chortling. Any idea what the title is? I own all her others, and am occasionally still despondent that she didn't seem to be writing adult fiction any more. For a straight, middle-class brown girl, I enjoy her work immensely. She was a real revelation to me when I began to discover feminist writers. Imagine--other possibilities than a hubby and kids and a two-car garage! So *many* more other possibilities. Woo-hoo! Okay, I'll calm down now. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:46:34 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Margaret Cavendish In-Reply-To: <199707071953.PAA22943@mail.med.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Having spent 35 years of my life consorting with SF people, and a smaller, but still significant part of my life hanging out with feminists, without ever hearing the name of Margaret Cavendish (1623-1673) invoked, I think that it's amazing that the authors of two consecutive, but unrelated posts, Anastasia and Nalo, have mentioned her. I did part of my dissertation on her fantasy poetry. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:19:07 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Williams Subject: who's on the list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm on the list and I am a READER who can't get books easily enough to suit me and who searches for fiction that imagines how we can all get out from under the oppression and pain that dogs most of us on this planet. also I'm an admirer of Laura Q's industriousness and creativity viz: www.uic.edu/~lmdoyle and the editor of a series of books on technology and jobs (one out, two forthcoming): http://cs-www.uchicago.edu/discussions/cpsr/jobtech/job-tech.html kate --- Kate Williams University of Toledo Community and Technical College Project Coordinator, Toledo Technology Academy kwillia8@uoft02.utoledo.edu til late June: (419) 531-8340 x205, fax (419) 531-8412 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:55:47 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bronwen Turner Organization: NCHECR Subject: Re: Star trek again..was So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Sean Johnston said Bronwen, Myself, I like Rom's wife (what's her name again?). She's strong, but in such an approachable way, like you could actually hang out with her, have food fights, that sort of thing and still know she's got your back when toe comes to toe. Major Kira's pretty cool, even more so than Dax. On the Voyager show, I'm into the half-Klingon woman played by Roxann Biggs-Dawson, whose character name I also don't remember. -Sean Sean, In Australia we haven't seen the lastest series of DS9, so we haven't been introduced to Rom's wife yet. I'll wait in anticipation. B'Ellana Torres is the name of the Klingon in Voyager. She's also terrific, as is Kira. I s'pose I find Ro Laren the most appealing as she was only in STNG for a short period and as such, she remained a fairly tough character. In the writers' attempts to create more complex roles in Trek they sometimes taken the edge of the female characters. Apologies for starting another (short) Trek thread. Bronwen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:36:24 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Master i Margarita Comments: To: MARINA YERESHENKO In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, MARINA YERESHENKO wrote: > > Nalo, > > title while translating the book. I never read _1984_, though. Isn't it > by George Orwell? NH: Damn, yeah, it is. I don't even have the excuse of advancing age, not really. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 06:54:34 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Moltz Subject: Readercon Dear Nalo, and anyone else with information: Since I live in the Boston area, could you please send any information on Readercon, i.e.times/places/authors appearing/contact information? Thanks a lot, Sandy Moltz ssm@pdd8.ae.ge.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:40:26 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: Ammonite In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, I'm still up in the air as to whether or not I want to find this book. I think it will just come down to if I wake up early enough on a Saturday to make my way over to the library and read it. Kate Bolin ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:18:43 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Holly Yasui Subject: book exchange/shopping service In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970707091429.006aa5a0@tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:14 AM 7/7/97 -0500, Neil Rest wrote: >So for a while, I've been wondering about suggesting to this list some sort >of book-exchange or shopping-service arrangement. I have no particular >organizational details in mind, more general friendly functionality. I think a book exchange/shopping service would be great! I live in Mexico (in the U.S. now, for the summer), and was delighted to find this list ... but how frustrating it will be to read ABOUT all these great books and not be able to get them once I return. I, for one, would be willing to put in some time organizing and maintaining such a service. I am learning HTML and I'd be happy to build some pages, since Laura so kindly offers space on this server, and Maryelizabeth toots her own horn (-: I loved it!!) Holly Yasui ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:18:16 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Holly Yasui Subject: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:01 AM 7/7/97 -0500, Kym Ragusa wrote: >I'm also an interracial woman of color, and I'm interested in SF that >breaks down rigid notions of identity (race, gender, sexuality, nation, >etc). I have a real soft spot for shapeshifter characters in particular! >Can anyone recommend other books by SF writers of color? I read an interesting book by Linda Nagata, whom I assume is Japanese American, called *The Bohr Maker.* It's a cyberpunkish (?? if cyberpunk is what I think it is) story set in futuristic Tokyo. Doesn't come close to Butler's incredible range of issues and insights (*Kindred* and the *Xenogenesis* trilogy really blew me away), but she's the only other identifiable woman of color science fiction writer I've come across in my very unstructured reading. Oh, I just remembered, have you read Starhawk's *The Fifth Sacred Thing*? Starhawk is a "Jewish witch" so I guess that counts. Most of the characters in that novel are people of color and she does deal with race, gender, sexual, and national identity along with alternative family structures, pacifism/militarism, collectivism/anarchism, democracy/authoritarianism, lots of juicy political stuff. I think she's a fascinating thinker (Marxist pagan) and a very good writer. I hope this thread continues, because as a Japanese American living in Mexico (I'm in the U.S. right now, but return to San Miguel de Allende, Guanajuato this fall), I'm also very interested in this area. Also, the URL for the De Colores bibliography of science fiction writers of color is: http://www.netgsi.com/users/obelesk/Bibcolores.html Holly Yasui ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:46:43 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: who's on the list In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970708131907.0075e9dc@uoft02.utoledo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Kate Williams wrote: > I'm on the list and I am a READER who can't get books easily enough to suit > me and who searches for fiction that imagines how we can all get out from > under the oppression and pain that dogs most of us on this planet. > > also I'm an admirer of Laura Q's industriousness and creativity viz: > > www.uic.edu/~lmdoyle gracias but the url is: http://www.uic.edu/~lauramd/ ... probably with the /femsf/ at the end, too. > > and the editor of a series of books on technology and jobs (one out, two > forthcoming): > > http://cs-www.uchicago.edu/discussions/cpsr/jobtech/job-tech.html > > > kate > > --- > Kate Williams > University of Toledo Community and Technical College > Project Coordinator, Toledo Technology Academy > kwillia8@uoft02.utoledo.edu > til late June: (419) 531-8340 x205, fax (419) 531-8412 > Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: delay in messages Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I received a notice in my mail that feministsf had exceeded 50 messages yesterday (the default limit) and that a number of messages from yesterday were delayed. I've increased the maximum number of messages so this shouldn't be happening but I'll go ahead and add that I'm stunned! Anyway, apologies for the delay and if your mail didn't get in it should be now; if there are problems let me know. list-mistress, laura quilter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:13:14 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: F Mendlesohn Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Comments: To: Peggy Hamilton In-Reply-To: <33BDCEE1.7F46@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII So wqho is on this list? I'm Farah Mendlesohn, I'm a cat lover, teach American history to undergrads and specialise in religious history (quakers) and science fiction. I'm also assistant editor of Foundation and we have a very pro-feminist policy so if you are thinking of writing anything, think of us. . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:36:09 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: _The Fifth Sacred Thing_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, I just finished reading it, and I'm still not sure if I thought it was good. Maybe it's because I'm not too terribly fond of eco-feminist utopias, or maybe because it just didn't feel very realistic to me. I guess it's because I had never really dealt with pagan/communistic/hippie until I got to college. I guess one thing that irked me about the book was the almost condescending attitude it had towards gay men. They were in a separate part of town. They were always wearing costume jewelry and other tacky garments. It was almost like....they were just being relegated to being trivial. And why wasn't there a women-only space? Why did the faerie men have their own little part of town and the separatist women didn't? Why did I get the feeling that Starhawk was more or less trivializing gay men because they didn't sleep with women, who are embodiments of the goddess? Sorry about my ranting and raving. I got very little sleep last night and this has been bugging me for a while. Kate Bolin ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: David Silver Subject: Finding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My avocation is out-of-print and rare book scouting. I specialize in science fiction, scholarly and technical books. Used science fiction books are of three general types, 1. pristine first editions with perfect dust jackets, these are much sought after by collectors and usually cost as much or more than when first sold. 2. Rare titles, like "Flowers for Algernon", usually first editions hard cover or paperback, also very collectable. 3. Books which are uncollectable, book club editions, worn, torn, or missing dust jackets, library copies, marked remainders, etc. -- reading copies. As a book scout I live to find 1's and 2's, but I see and pick up a lot of 3's, just today I picked up Arthur C. Clarke's A FALL OF MOONDUST, 1961 in excellent condition but no collector will touch it as it is a stamped, library copy sold for downsizing reasons. If you are looking for a title, reading copies and/or collectables (I have some Sheri Tepper golden oldies for example), let me know. If I don't have it, I can look for it. Toronto is a gold mine for science fiction and detective novels as we get both British and American editions sold here. Reading copies usually cost about the same as a paperback + four dollars surface mail in US and Canada. Happy Reading David Silver 189 McMorran Crescent Thornhill, Ontario L4J 3C8 (905) 731-4063 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:58:23 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708231816.0069ebe0@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Okay, after much searching, the DeColors page is at: http://www.netgsi.com/~obelesk/DeColored.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: book exchange/shopping service In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708231843.00686d74@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Holly Yasui wrote: > At 09:14 AM 7/7/97 -0500, Neil Rest wrote: > >So for a while, I've been wondering about suggesting to this list some sort > >of book-exchange or shopping-service arrangement. I have no particular > >organizational details in mind, more general friendly functionality. > > I think a book exchange/shopping service would be great! I live in Mexico > (in the U.S. now, for the summer), and was delighted to find this list ... > but how frustrating it will be to read ABOUT all these great books and not > be able to get them once I return. > > I, for one, would be willing to put in some time organizing and maintaining > such a service. I am learning HTML and I'd be happy to build some pages, > since Laura so kindly offers space on this server, and Maryelizabeth toots > her own horn (-: I loved it!!) Great. Maybe a basic page would include some booksellers (I would prefer to focus on independent booksellers) for rare & out-of-print & imported & sf stuff; also a list of willing acquisitions contacts & whether they want exchange or money (and in what currency); and finally a list of "titles wanted" with contact info. There will be element of financial risk involved, obviously, so that should be clear to anyone, and listed on the page - it's a good-faith honor system. Probably also a note that people should really try their used/out-of-print/import bookstores first. I don't have any other ideas - does that sound like a good way to handle it? Maybe we can start that way and see how busy it gets to decide if a more formal structure is demanded. Holly, if you create the basic web page and send it to me (lauramd@uic.edu) I'll put it up and post the URL. As soon as I can (next couple of months?) I'm going to purchase web space and provide accounts on it - at that point you could edit the page directly. In the meantime this won't be too awkward. When you're compiling the info from people who've volunteered thus far to be contacts let me know. I'll be a US-midwest contact (but there should be more than one of us since so much SF comes out in the US) - will happily send copies of stuff overseas for exchange or US$. > > Holly Yasui > Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:06:24 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: DeColores project addy In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970707211219.34b7d73e@kent.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Thanks Heather. I just found the url, and was about to post it, but you beat me to it. This is a bibliography of sf by people of colour. -nalo On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Heather MacLean wrote: > http://www.netgsi.com/~obelesk/DeColores.html > > > Enjoy... (nalo passed it on to me, so it's only fair that i pass it on as > well... =) > > Heather > (avid reader of sf, all kinds--teach french sf and surrealism, supremely > interested in the links between language and visualization in the reading > process...) > > > hmaclean@kent.edu > http://kent.edu/~hmaclean/ > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:19:09 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Margaret Cavendish In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Oh, goody. Then maybe you can explain my sig file to the person on this list (sorry; don't have your name in front of me, and am not adept enough at e-mail to move between files) who asked me what it meant. I am no expert in English of the period and my dad, who was, is dead. I only have a vague, intuitive sense of its meaning. Only heard of Margaret Cavendish a few days ago, when Helen Merrick--lurking on this list--sent me a copy of _She's Fantastical,- an antho of sf by Australian women. Have to find out more about Cavendish when I surface from Tiptree reading. -nalo On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > Having spent 35 years of my life consorting with SF people, and a > smaller, but still significant part of my life hanging out with > feminists, without ever hearing the name of Margaret Cavendish > (1623-1673) invoked, I think that it's amazing that the authors of two > consecutive, but unrelated posts, Anastasia and Nalo, have mentioned her. I > did part of my dissertation on her fantasy poetry. > > Mike Levy > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:24:00 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708231816.0069ebe0@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, Linda Nagata is of Japanese heritage (whether American or not, I'm not certain). If anyone is into magic realism, you might want to check out _When Fox is a Thousand_ by Canadian Larissa Lai, who's also of Asian origin. It got an honourable mention in last year's world's best fantasy & horror. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:26:58 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: New Joanna Russ book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For those who are interested, Publishers Weekly (6/33/97) just reviewed a new and enormous (560 pp), non-fiction book by Joanna Russ called What Are We Fighting For? Sex, Race, Class, and the Future of Feminism. It's due out in August from St. Martin's, costs $27.95, ISBN 0-312-15198-5. PW gave it a somewhat mixed review, as one would expect. In the review Russ is referred to as "a radical, socialist, lesbian, handicapped, Jewish feminist." Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:28:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: from "Elizabeth Pandolfo" at Jul 7, 97 09:03:30 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth Pandolfo wrote: "I've been a feminist since I entered college, but I recently have had revelations about just how subtle the oppression of women really is, even among those who are learned and try not to support that behavior.>>> I have been having some of the same revelations Elizabeth, I tried to share them on the list as I think that the opression of women is so subtle and ingrained n the society that we cease to even notice it. I believe that one of the biggest ways that women are still punished, oppressed and controled is in the issues surrounding their reproduction. I will now offer a quote from Ursula LeGuin. It is in their sexuality that human beings can be most easily enslaved. ... The politics of the flesh are the root of all power. The politics of the flesh are the root of all power. I had not put it so elegantly, but this is what I have been thinking about both personally and politically since I have been recently harshly punished for my femaleness. Anastasia I think tht the first thing that will free us is having real control over our bodies and our reproduction (and I dont mean just access to abortion on demand, I mean that economics and social convention should not drive women's reproductive choices and it seems to me that this is sadly still the case. And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human roots were? Life and birth and death are still mysteries try as we might to control or deny it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:34:17 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Linda Nagata--was Re: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708231816.0069ebe0@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Concerning Linda Nagata. I too assumed she was Japanese until an interview with her appeared in Locus, I think late in 1996. She's Anglo, but married to a Hawaiian American of Japanese descent. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:12:48 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: Women writers of color Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Holly Yasui speculated: >I read an interesting book by Linda Nagata, whom I assume is Japanese >American, called *The Bohr Maker.* It's a cyberpunkish (?? if cyberpunk is >what I think it is) story set in futuristic Tokyo. Doesn't come close to >Butler's incredible range of issues and insights (*Kindred* and the >*Xenogenesis* trilogy really blew me away), but she's the only other >identifiable woman of color science fiction writer I've come across in my >very unstructured reading. Actually, Linda is Caucasian. However, I believe, IIRC, that her husband is of Hawaiian/Asian descent. >Also, the URL for the De Colores bibliography of science fiction writers of >color is: > > http://www.netgsi.com/users/obelesk/Bibcolores.html I promise to scoot over there as soon as I finish the other 99 things on my to do list, but in the meantime thought I'd ask if Tananarive Due, the only woman of color I know of writing horror, is on the list. Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:20:44 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: Re: New Joanna Russ book In-Reply-To: from "Michael Marc Levy" at Jul 8, 97 10:26:58 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In the review Russ is referred to as "a radical, socialist, lesbian, > handicapped, Jewish feminist." Damn - well so much for *subtle* discrimination. As an interesting aside, I just sent the Head of the Bioethics department here two science fiction stories to use as teaching aids in examining bioethical issues. One was Joanna Russ' "Where late the sweet birds sang" a classic cloning story and the other was Nancy Kress' "The mouuntain to Mohammed". I am now helping him plan the lecture around these works. I didnt *know* that Joanna Russ was so radical (I tend to care more about the ideas of writers as opposed to their personal lives which in my personal world would remain their own business) and I wonder if he would be teaching her if he *knew* her sordid politics (sarcasm). > > Mike Levy > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:23:26 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: A riotgrrl's 50 best science fiction novels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.riotgrrl.com/archive/large18.htm I haven't had a chance to really get through it, I think it would be interesting to compare this with what some of us were reading in high school and the like. Kate ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:40:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <9707072320.AA20337@madrone.ece.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'd love to write it, and I have dabbled in that, but, >honestly, I don't have the time to put into that tremendous >endeavor. I am very impressed especially by the published >authors on this list! I have only published technical papers in >my field. > Bonnie, If it's the supposed scale of the stuff that's prohibiting you from writing SF, start small. Write a five-hundred or thousand-word short story. That's only 2-5 pages or so. Who knows? You might be a very important and very good SF writer, but I'd hate to see that not happen because of some intimidation (I'm talking about the scale here). 'Sides, it's a heckuvalotta fun. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:30:49 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: <199707081528.LAA22525@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new >reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you >were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by >a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human >roots were? Elizabeth, Myself, I'd feel pretty pissed and alone. Perhaps, to any geneticists out there, this is something worth considering before racing along the technological superspeedway: drive too fast, don't listen to your pit crew and don't think ahead and you're bound to crash or screw up something vital. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <9707072320.AA20337@madrone.ece.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And what could possibly be better, >combining feminism with science and speculative fiction!? > >Keep the cool stuff coming, >Bonnie I don't know if that was a rhetorical question, but I'd say: Combining humanism with same. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:51:20 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've only become entranced with fantasy and SF in the past few >years, become a fan of Star Trek in the past 2 years, and become a fan of >Bab5 in the past week. =-> > Elizabeth, Which Star Trek? The Next Generation? Deep Space 9? Voyager? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sean, > >University of Oklahoma is in Norman. It's the school where Anita Hill was >a law professor until they forced her to quit in the middle of last Fall. > >Marina > Marina, Ohhhh. I remember being in Oklahoma City a few times. Didn't like it. Tulsa's a lot nicer (and so easy to get around). What do you think of the places (OK City and Tulsa)? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:55:31 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: Star trek again..was So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <8731701880@nchecr.unsw.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Sean, > >In Australia we haven't seen the lastest series of DS9, so we haven't >been introduced to Rom's wife yet. I'll wait in anticipation. > >B'Ellana Torres is the name of the Klingon in Voyager. She's also >terrific, as is Kira. I s'pose I find Ro Laren the most appealing as >she was only in STNG for a short period and as such, she remained a >fairly tough character. In the writers' attempts to create more >complex roles in Trek they sometimes taken the edge of the >female characters. > >Apologies for starting another (short) Trek thread. > >Bronwen Bronwen, If I'm right, the last we heard from Ro Laren was when she went over to, what, the resistance or the Romulans? I remember the episode and her leaving a shuttle in which she sat with Wil Riker, but I don't remember where she went. I'd like to hear more from her, though. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:18:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: postfeminism In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Folks, We've got, sort of, definitions of feminism. Great. Anybody want to define, succinctly, postfeminism and throw out a grenade or two on how that'd relate to SF? I have my ideas, but I wanna see yours before I show you mine (sorry. That was sooo juvenile ;-) ). Translation: I'm still working on a definition of postfeminism. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:25:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: from "Sean Johnston" at Jul 8, 97 11:30:49 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > >And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new > >reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you > >were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by > >a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human > >roots were? > > Elizabeth, Actually Sean - it was me, Anastasia who wrote the above snippet - it was inspired by Elizabeth's observation that opression against women ws "subtle" to which I responded yes, and one of the most powerful tools in this "subtle" arsenal is the control of women's reproduction by economic means, normative social controls (those evil teen mothers, single mothers and welfare queens) and by technology. I would actually like to see these issuesexplored as there has been a lot of extrapolative fiction written about these things, but there needs to be more. > Myself, I'd feel pretty pissed and alone. Perhaps, to any > geneticists out there, this is something worth considering before racing > along the technological superspeedway: drive too fast, don't listen to > your pit crew and don't think ahead and you're bound to crash or screw up > something vital. > > -Sean > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:47:54 -0400 Reply-To: Joel VanLaven Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: <199707081528.LAA22525@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: [snip] > Anastasia > > I think tht the first thing that will free us is having real control over > our bodies and our reproduction (and I dont mean just access to abortion > on demand, I mean that economics and social convention should not drive > women's reproductive choices and it seems to me that this is sadly still > the case. > > And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new > reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you > were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by > a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human > roots were? Excuse me if I give my personal answer to this question. 1) My human roots are the based on who raised me (including the larger society) and have very little to do with my biology. I think that who "we" are is more based on Memes than Genes. 2) It would all be a matter of society and culture. If I was the only such surrogate or if society was obsessed with biological parentage, there would probably be significant problems. However, given a society based on this system, I can't forsee any more or larger personal problems with the situation than with my current life knowing my biological parents. > Life and birth and death are still mysteries try as we might to control > or deny it. 3) It seems that you are implying by this that we would lose a mystical connection to our parents. Perhaps, for some reason, people get a lot out of some sort of feeling of meta-physical (strangely very physical) connection to the people who gave them their genes. Also, perhaps people get alot out of knowing that their genes are continuing on in their children and have this feeling confirmed by the notion that their parents had the same thing with them. I wonder a) how much this is really the case. I for one do not feel that I get much of this mystical connection. What I get is the mystical connection of mind that came from my parents raising me. b) how much of this is societal and replaceable. Perhaps in another society we will find the "raised by" connection to be more mystical than the biological connection. (which I think I do) I hesitate to minimize the importance of biological parentage, but I hope that those people who find solace in it pause to consider other options and ways that people might get the same thing. Since I don't think that I personally get much of anything from my biological connections other than those derived from my non-biological interactions with them, I have no personal problem with the notion. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:01:47 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Re: Ammonite In a message dated 97-07-08 00:26:59 EDT, Neil wrote: << A white brick, unfortunately, has a shelf life of about six weeks. Then it's pulped.>> AMMONITE is still going strong. It's in its fifth or sixth printing. If it's not actually on the shelf at Borders or B&N, you should be able to order it easily enough. Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:01:07 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Linda Nagata--was Re: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Oops! -nalo On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Michael Marc Levy wrote: > Concerning Linda Nagata. I too assumed she was Japanese until an > interview with her appeared in Locus, I think late in 1996. She's Anglo, > but married to a Hawaiian American of Japanese descent. > > Mike > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:01:47 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: <199707081725.NAA11006@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: [snip] > Actually Sean - it was me, Anastasia who wrote the above snippet it > was inspired by Elizabeth's observation that opression against women ws > "subtle" to which I responded yes, and one of the most powerful tools in > this "subtle" arsenal is the control of women's reproduction by economic > means, normative social controls (those evil teen mothers, single mothers > and welfare queens) and by technology. > > I would actually like to see these issuesexplored as there has been a > lot of extrapolative fiction written about these things, but there needs > to be more. [snip] How about the new male birth control pill? That is so cool. This thing is real and is in our own time. I have an impression that most sf about reproduction has centered on different ways to create children rather than the more "mundane" subjects of birth control, but it seems to me that the political, economic, and social implications of birth control are extremely important and relevant. Most sf that mentions birth control seems to do so only in relation to a "magic patch" or something that simplifies not only life but the story as well :) Say, does anyone know of any sf out there that centers on birth control? Or is it stupid to even be asking? -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:07:31 +0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Elizabeth Pandolfo Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: <199707081528.LAA22525@mail.med.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On 8 July, 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: >I have been having some of the same revelations Elizabeth, I tried to >share them on the list as I think that the opression of women is so >subtle and ingrained n the society that we cease to even notice it. I agree, Anastasia. It came as a real shock to me that the ways in which I had been taught to behave simply catered to my own oppression. These thoughts all came to a head as I was evaluating a reading group I've participated in for a long while, whose members are people I like, trust, and admire. There were a few meetings where I was the only female present, and I found certain behaviors and my responses to them very frustrating without really knowing why (I'd had a grad class where I was the only female present, too, and things then were similar to this situation). Realizing those reading-group members would be horrified at how I interpreted their behavior only made the situation worse for me personally. And then we read Ammonite, and I was appalled at how the book was interpreted by the majority of the reading group, who insisted that patriarchy occupied a central position in the book and who answered my claims about the book by saying Ammonite was largely derivative and typical of feminist utopias (but, gee, it was a good book nonetheless!). =-> >I had not put it so elegantly, but this is what I have been thinking >about both personally and politically since I have been recently harshly >punished for my femaleness. I want to say something to this, but I don't know what wouldn't simply be trite, so let me say I'm sympathetic (still trite, but I do mean it). >I think tht the first thing that will free us is having real control over >our bodies and our reproduction (and I dont mean just access to abortion >on demand, I mean that economics and social convention should not drive >women's reproductive choices and it seems to me that this is sadly still >the case. Yes, it is. Have you looked at Delany's book of essays, Silent Interviews? In one of the later interviews (I don't have it in front of me, but I can check the title and passage later if you'd like) he notes that modern society represses women and their sexuality even more than gays and their sexuality, and gives his interpretation of the AIDS crisis, the public warnings about AIDS, and the timing of it all to support his observation. Very intriguing, and convincing. >And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new >reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you >were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by >a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human >roots were? Timely question, since I just recently finished Butler's Xenogenesis trilogy. I can't answer it very well though. It does seem, going along with Delany's argument, that as women claim the right of being fully contributing members of society, as mothers and workers of all sorts, science comes up with more ways of saying that women aren't needed. This issue can really empower women, or really disempower them, depending on one's view. I haven't made up my mind yet. Elizabeth -- Elizabeth L. Pandolfo/Briggs pandolfo@macbsd.com http://www.macbsd.com/~pandolfo/index.html "Whatever happens, believe that the journey is worth taking..." --Peth, "Seaward" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:15:47 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Joanna Russ/Kate Wilhelm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Um...Anastasia: > As an interesting aside, I just sent the Head of the Bioethics >department here two science fiction stories to use as teaching aids in >examining bioethical issues. One was Joanna Russ' "Where late the sweet >birds sang" a classic cloning story and the other was Nancy Kress' "The >mouuntain to Mohammed". > Am I confused, or was "Sweet Birds" not Kate Wilhelm, another fine writer, rather than Russ? Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:17:22 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Emilie Falc Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT -- In response to Anastasia's query about not knowing your parents Joel VanLaven wrote: Since I don't think that I personally get much of anything from my biological connections other than those derived from my non-biological interactions with them, I have no personal problem with the notion. -- While I often have more in common with friends and other academics than with my own parents, I'll always remember the day when I noticed I have my mother's hands. The connection might seem silly, but in a world where it's common to feel alone in a crowd it's comforting. Em ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:25:43 +0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Elizabeth Pandolfo Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I've only become entranced with fantasy and SF in the past few >>years, become a fan of Star Trek in the past 2 years, and become a fan of >>Bab5 in the past week. =-> >> > >Elizabeth, > Which Star Trek? The Next Generation? Deep Space 9? Voyager? > >-Sean All, actually. I saw lots of TNG, and all the movies, and got hooked. I started watching DS9 and Voyager (though I can't get Voyager where I live anymore, but I had high hopes of them being able to start writing good plots to go with what I think is a great cast full of potential). A few months ago, they started showing TOS locally, so I watch it and just reeled from the, well, sixties-ish-ness of it, but it's grown on me. I like Spock. =-> I greatly like and admire the women on DS9 and Voyager (and Crusher on TNG), who seemed quite strong and capable to me. I didn't have a problem with any of their love interests or with Kira's pregnancy (after all, Visitor really was pregnant and it was either her character was pregnant too or we didn't see her for 5 months; talk about empowering women), since I don't see why a strong character can't have a relationship. I think Dax and Worf, and Kira's relationships, haven't demeaned either of those women. I wish TNG had done better with Troi, she could have been a great character. I admired Ro, but I didn't ever really like her. I've been impressed with DS9 in the past year; the writing is strong, the characters have shaped up well, and all isn't pleasant anymore. I hope I'll be able to see what those in charge do with what they've created. Elizabeth -- Elizabeth L. Pandolfo/Briggs pandolfo@macbsd.com http://www.macbsd.com/~pandolfo/index.html "Whatever happens, believe that the journey is worth taking..." --Peth, "Seaward" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:41 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >So wqho is on this list? > >I'm Farah Mendlesohn, Farah, hi! I remember you well from Glasgow-con, now these many years ago. Are you coming to WFC in London this fall? I'll be there! Best to you and your husband, Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:16 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: SM Charnas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:14 PM 7/7/97, Nancy A. Horn wrote: >Imagine finding you here. I'm the friend of Vonda McIntyre's. Remember me. > >buzz buzz, > >nancy Oh crikey; yes, here I am, but where exactly and when did the buzzing take place? Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:34 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: Ammonite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:40 AM 7/8/97, Kate Bolin wrote: >Well, I'm still up in the air as to whether or not I want to find this >book. I think it will just come down to if I wake up early enough on a >Saturday to make my way over to the library and read it. Godsakes. Read it! Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:36 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: Finding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My avocation is out-of-print and rare book scouting. I specialize in >science fiction, scholarly and technical books. Used science fiction books >are of three general types, 1. pristine first editions with perfect dust >jackets, these are much sought after by collectors and usually cost as much >or more than when first sold. Mr. Silver, Are you interested in a hardcover (perfect) of THE VAMPIRE TAPESTRY, Simon and Schuster, 1980? Suzy Charnas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:56 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:15 PM 7/6/97, Sean Johnston wrote: > Anyone know of more imperfect matriarchal societies I could read >>about? > >Joanna, > This is stretching, but I'd check out S.M. Charnas' _Scorched >Supper on New Niger_ in _The Year's Best Science Fiction_, 13th edition, >edited by Gardner Dozois. There's a lot of other good stuff in there >(incl. 2 LeGuin stories), so it's worth the $17.95 US ($25.99 Can.) A word -- this story, the first short piece I ever did for publication and written when I was still fresh out of the Peace Corps and utterly fed up with straight-white-boy space colonies, is also found in Pam Sargent's reprinted collection, WOMEN OF WONDER, Vol. II, The Contemporary Years, out of Harcourt Brace in their Harvest trade paperback line in '95. Lots of other great stuff in there, too; price, $15.00 US. Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:31 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: Lizzie Lynn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:26 PM 7/7/97, Nalo Hopkinson wrote: >On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > > >> Lynn has a new book due out in the fall > >NH: She does?! O, frabjous day! I heard from Lizzie's (and my) editor at Tor, Debbie Notkin, that the book is WONDERFUL. And I bet it damn well is. Can hardly wait! Oh, I've been remiss about introducing myself, sorry -- Suzy Charnas, been around a while now writing feminist SF and fantasy; presently bringing the series that (inadvertantly) began with WALK TO THE END OF THE WORLD (1974, guys!) to a close with a fourth and final volume. For more info, there's a web-page out there at StoryBytes, an on-line magazine, and a bunch of interview stuff at Amazon Books and at the Internet Book Shop in the uk. You people are *keeping me from finishing my work* with all the good stuff happening on this list. Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:39 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: New Joanna Russ book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:26 AM 7/8/97, Michael Marc Levy wrote: >For those who are interested, Publishers Weekly (6/33/97) just reviewed a >new and enormous (560 pp), non-fiction book by Joanna Russ called What >Are We Fighting For? Sex, Race, Class, and the Future of Feminism. It's >due out in August from St. Martin's, costs $27.95, ISBN 0-312-15198-5. > >PW gave it a somewhat mixed review, as one would expect. > >In the review Russ is referred to as "a radical, socialist, lesbian, >handicapped, Jewish feminist." Mike, Great news! We've been hearing about this book for ages, and Joanna's health problems have often made it seem as if it was never going to appear. Can hardly wait -- thank Gods she's getting it out before I turn in the final mss. of my new novel -- I have absolutely no doubt that something in her book will spark absolutely crucial trains of thought etc. Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:48:07 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: SM Charnas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:40 AM 7/7/97, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: >Speaking of "who is on this list," Janice and Susan commented: >>offensive in the portrayal of the inter-gender relations. The idea that >>men and women just can't, literally and unequivocally and universally >>-can't- understand each other. > >Well, I guess they worked for me because I am sometimes baffled by the fact >that any two entities are able to communicate, let alone two entities fo >different genders. And living with my husband and son is enough to give me >many instances of complete conviction that they are indeed wired >differently and occasionally incomprehensible. I think there are distinct differences in masculine and feminine styles of expression, if not of thought, although how in hell we can ever untangle how much is "inborn" from how much is culturally inculcated I do not know. Certainly the more you suspend the rules about which sex may use which styles the more blurring and cross-over you get, but how to tell what that means? In some cases it's reaction against required norms, in others per- haps a function of unusual childhood circumstances or body chemistry, or who knows what else. It's quite clear, though, that this culture and most others have a deeply defended investment in keeping men "men" (foreground) and women "women" (background) for all sorts of political, economic, and social reasons. So, naturally, the culture works hard to reaffirm and even exaggerate the differences in male and female expressive styles that keep people locked into one side or the other of the gender split. We have a terrible inclina- tion toward polarities anyway, being bi-pedal etc., and a nearly total in- ability to view opposing poles as in parity rather than one being superior to the other. Which is pretty ridiculous objectively -- is your right foot "better than" your left foot? -- but very useful for allowing one pole to justify dominating and exploiting the other; which means that if you are born into the dominant pole, you most likely will do anything to keep from being identified with the other pole, including tailor your thought and behavior patterns to read "DOMINANT HERE" whether such patterns are "natural" in you or not. It will take a real revolution -- probably a very *long* revolution -- to get us to where we could seriously and maybe a little bit objectively begin to sort out biologically reality from cultural artifact, and decide where to go from there (though we can't seem to stop trying). So maybe for all intents and purposes as far as we moderns are concerned, Suzette is right: it ain't going to change soon enough. How would it all stand if we were actually built on a three-footed model? Suzy See why I mostly keep quiet on this list? I open my trap and out comes a goddamn lecture! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:47:59 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: SMCharnas Subject: Re: _Glory Season_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:40 AM 7/7/97, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: >It didn't work for me. I think a) the matriarchial founders were just too >manipulative, even more so than the founders of _Women's Country_, and b) I >didn't think the concept of sexuality was dealt with realistically. I agree about the problem of sexuality. What struck me was the total ab- sence of any homosexual element (barring, I think, one skittish sentence implying a predatory sort of chicken-hawk interest by a tough old bird in a tender, younger one, if I remember correctly) in a female-run society in which heterosexuality is only operative for a short mating season. Add also the nearly total lack of actual child- raising (although admittedly in an adventure story this isn't easy to do) and the fact that just about every male in the book is a sweet, good-hearted creature deeply involved in playing something called, I think, "the Game of Life," which women didn't play and which supposedly embodies "laws" of genetics which condemn the women's experiment. I also found it odd that this supposedly female-run society is in fact organized around its males and winning them as mates. On the whole, despite some lively ideas and adventures, I found the over-all result a sophisticated update of the women-run-society-as-insect-hive model that some male authors used to present as the "natural" form that any society ruled by women must take. Most disturbing of all, the plot of the book involves the larger human population ("the phylum"?), which has diffused among the stars, sending an envoy to inform the women that, successful though their feminist experiment has proven (for several thousands of years, in fact), the "phylum" has now decided that it's time for this self-chosen female separatism and rulership to end. The envoy's message is that ships from more traditional planets are already on their way to bring normality back to this wayward planet, and that this is a good and necessary thing against which, um, to coin a phrase, "resistance is futile." So, I guess, the gals might as well lie back and enjoy it . . . I assume "the phylum" to be male run because of the traditional values it intends to re-establish (for a "scientific" "higher good") even against the will of the non-traditional women of the "feminist" planet; and because surely no society with women fully represented in its decision making would be so dim-witted as to send a single, male envoyto a female-dominated world, at least not without some pretty fancy explanations of compelling reasons for doing so. But maybe I missed something. This novel is, to my mind, definitely *about* feminism, but just as definitely not *feminist*. As such, of course it was included in the Tiptree nominations for its year; Neil, you must have been looking at a list for a different year; although it's surprising how often people think that this book was over- looked. It wasn't. It was considered and did not win. (see Tiptree address supplied in Freddie Baer's message) I recommend reading Nicola Griffin's AMMONITE right after GLORY SEASON. The comparison is fascinating. If I were teaching a course on women and sf, or a women's studies course with an sf component, I'd include both books to be read and discussed together; or GS with my own MOTHERLINES, or with some episodes of XENA (Brin's heroine is, after all, a warrior-adventurer). No doubt other interesting matches could also be made, and could yield great discussions in a classroom. Suzy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:36:59 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: Re: Joanna Russ/Kate Wilhelm In-Reply-To: from "Maryelizabeth Hart" at Jul 8, 97 11:15:47 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Um...Anastasia: > > As an interesting aside, I just sent the Head of the Bioethics > >department here two science fiction stories to use as teaching aids in > >examining bioethical issues. One was Joanna Russ' "Where late the sweet > >birds sang" a classic cloning story and the other was Nancy Kress' "The > >mouuntain to Mohammed". > > > Am I confused, or was "Sweet Birds" not Kate Wilhelm, another fine writer, > rather than Russ? Sorry, you are right and I am getting them confused as "Souls" by Russ follows "Sweet Birds in the anthology I copied it out of. My apologies for any confusion. > > > Maryelizabeth > Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 > 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 > San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX > http://www.mystgalaxy.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:42:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > How about the new male birth control pill? That is so cool. This >thing is real and is in our own time. > >-- Joel VanLaven Joel, Huh? When'd this come about? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:48:13 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I like >Spock. =-> > Shouldn't that be "I grok Spock"? ;-) -Sean > >I've been impressed with DS9 in the past year; the writing is strong, the >characters have shaped up well, and all isn't pleasant anymore. I hope >I'll be able to see what those in charge do with what they've created. > >Elizabeth I started liking DS9 a lot more once Worf came on, despite the fact that Michael Dorn's attitude going in was, "Well, it's money."(I think that's right. I think he needs this to support his flying. Hey, we all have our 'weaknesses') I'd probably feel the same way, though, having to sit through hours of makeup several days/week for years. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:34:44 UT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Re: Margaret Cavendish As the Cavendish experts probably already know, there is an essay by Virginia Woolf on Cavendish in 'The Common Reader', (entitled 'The Duchess of Newcastle'). She was clearly not VW's kind of writer, but this essay is interesting (perhaps) as an example of earlier rediscoveries of marginalised women writers. And how they get forgotten again and have to be rediscovered once more! Lesley Lesley_Hall@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:56:31 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > All, actually. I saw lots of TNG, and all the movies, and got hooked. I > started watching DS9 and Voyager (though I can't get Voyager where I live > anymore, but I had high hopes of them being able to start writing good > plots to go with what I think is a great cast full of potential). A few I hope you are thinking more of "I HAD" instead of "I HAVE". Be very very grateful you don't get Voyager where you live. Trust me. Kate Bolin B5 addict ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:02:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Edrie J Sobstyl Subject: Re: Any Sheri Tepper fans out there Comments: To: bernip@IX.NETCOM.COM In-Reply-To: <33BE389C.7221@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Since everyone else is de-lurking, and since Tepper fandom is on the table: I'm an assistant professor of philosophy, specializing in feminist science criticism. I'm a very big fan of Tepper's (although also a fan of Butler, Griffith, Slonczewski, Le Guin, and a score of others, Tepper's my number one favourite). I'm a displaced Canadian, living and working in Texas, where I am constantly judged to be a godless communist - an image I do nothing to dispel! I have a big fat grey tabby cat called Dennis; I have struggled, and am struggling, in my work with a philosophical grand assumption - that getting the argument right matters, and that if feminists can manage to get their arguments right, then things will change for women. I probably believed this at one time, early in my graduate career, but I no longer do. I used Tepper's _Gate to Women's Country_ in my dissertation because I was so struck by its power to persuade without resorting to the usual forms of philosophical discourse. Its subversiveness also appealed to me. I'm currently doing more work on the book, which doesn't especially go over well in professional philosophy; I am fortunate to be in an interdisciplinary program where I can explore such "unorthodox" material. I'm also fortunate to have a Dean who's a big science fiction fan! I agree that Tepper's novels sometimes tend to be a little too bombastic in their politics. However, I compare her work mentally to earlier efforts, such as Gilman's _Herland_, which is marred by pages and pages of excruciatingly dull, didactic speeches, and I find Tepper to be pretty low-key by contrast. I *loved* _Gibbon's_, and agree that it was one of her recent best. I also agree that perfection would make her much less fun to read, and to work with/on! Finally, about the list itself - it's been a treasure in terms of reading list suggestions, and it's great to have participation by the authors themselves. Nicola, I hope you don't get "too famous" for us! Edrie Sobstyl School of Arts and Humanities University of Texas at Dallas P.O. Box 830688 Richardson Tx 75083-0688 (972) 883-2365 (972) 883-2989 (fax) On Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:05:48 +0100 Berni Phillips wrote: > Susan Mundahl wrote: > > > > I have just finished "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" It was incredible! Does > > anyone know how to get in touch with the author? I believe that her books > > are so insighful. They have helped me focus on what is important in this > > liminal age when we are trying to overcome the shackles of patriarchal > > bondage. Anyone care to discuss the book? Please contact me at > > isisbear@aol.com. > > > I am a Tepper fan as well. I think you'd probably have to write her > publisher (info should be on the copyright page) to contact her. > > I haven't read her newest (_The Family Tree_ or something similar to > that), but I thought that _Gibbon's Decline and Fall_ was the best book > she'd written in years. > > I admire Tepper tremendously but I think she also has some serious flaws > as a writer. One of these is that she gets so carried away with her > politics that she tends beat the reader over the head with them. Even > though I generally agree with her message, the heavy-handedness makes me > wince. I thought that she did a fine job of *not* doing that in > Gibbon's. (Did you read _Shadow's End_? All the female characters were > good and all but one of the men were bad--and the one good man was > pretty much an honorary woman.) Her politics were there, but they were > deftly woven and crucial to the story. (Also, while her passion and her > politics is one of her greatest faults, it is also one of her greatest > strengths and what keeps me coming back to her. She cares passionately > about what she's writing. You know she's not just tossing it off.) > > Her other bad fault (as I see it, of course) is that she has a problem > ending her novels. She tends to rush the ending and throw in all sorts > of things. She does this particularly in _Beauty_, with her rant on > horror writers, and _A Plague of Angels_, which had some really > interesting concepts in it otherwise, such as the archetypal village. > > Still, if she were perfect, she would be much less interesting to > discuss. > > Berni Phillips ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:21:04 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Wigod Subject: Test Tube Babies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new >>reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you >>were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by >>a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human >>roots were? Ummmm.............better than a child who was rejected by its parents after birth? Better than a child severely abused by its biological parents? And.....speaking for many of us, I'm sure....better than a child who is Only Too Aware of the genetic code it's carrying around! ;-) Laura P.S. - On the male birth control pill issue, I have serious, admittedly cynical, thoughts about how motivated a guy would be to take it when the repurcussions of an unplanned pregnancy have zero physical affect on him. I mean, he could _lie_ and say he's on it. Sure, so could a woman, but, if she gets pregnant, _she_ suffers the consequences, not the "father." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:24:49 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: > > > > How about the new male birth control pill? That is so cool. This > >thing is real and is in our own time. > > > >-- Joel VanLaven > > Joel, > Huh? When'd this come about? Well, all this is from watching the news, but as far as I know, 1) it's currently in clinical trials (you know how we are about approving drugs). It could be a while before it is available, but it was in the news enough for me to hear about it. (I don't follow the news that closely). 2) I think it is a drug that makes the sperm produced by a man incapable (in some way or other) of "doing it's job" :). 3) I think that it is supposed to be in the 90+% effective range (similar to female birth control pills). 4) I think it's relatively side-effect free. It might be one of those things that never makes it to market, but I have a feeling there will be huge demand for it as it seems like a very effective solution with the minimal side-effects (at least it doesn't mess with anyone's hormones). If anyone knows more about it (like how it works) I'd love to hear about it. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ruth Ann Jones Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Nalo sez: >Ruth, you're at the home of Clarion East. Yep, sure am! Wish I could claim some connection but it's just coincidence. (btw, it's Ruth Ann, please, not Ruth.) >Octavia Butler's one of the >writers there this year. I'm going to MSU at the end of this month for >the Clarion reunion, and am keeping my fingers crossed that she'll be >there. I'd love to meet her. > >-nalo Yes, she was here in June. I went to one of her readings at a local bookstore and she was really interesting - very thoughtful, very funny. I'd love to hear her again! Hope you get to meet her in person!! --Ruth Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:51:21 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Nancy A. Horn" Subject: Re: SM Charnas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The message was for the Mysterious Galaxy bookstore proprietress. The buzzing was from a bad bearing on my main impeller. nancy At 11:48 AM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:14 PM 7/7/97, Nancy A. Horn wrote: >>Imagine finding you here. I'm the friend of Vonda McIntyre's. Remember me. >> >>buzz buzz, >> >>nancy > >Oh crikey; yes, here I am, but where exactly and when did the buzzing take >place? > >Suzy > > www.crl.com/~yashmak/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:27:38 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Valerie Renwick-Porter Subject: utopian communities In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Anybody know about some communes, preferably > egalitarian/feminist? To Lori and Sean, and any others who are interested in finding out more about community living: the best place to start on the web is which has links to a diverse range of current communes or "intentional communities" (as we like to say) all over the continent and the world. You can also check out Twin Oaks webpage at or email me personally for more information. I am serious that community culture is a place where we can start creating, now, the utopias that we all love to read about, and perhaps fantasize about living in.... In cooperation, Valerie ============================================ Valerie Renwick-Porter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:33:56 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joslyn Grassby Organization: National Library of Canada Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another lurker appearing briefly . . .Not random, not a geek and no longer a lecturer. Joslyn Grassby, librarian, formerly math teacher, editor, lecturer in ESP. Reader of science fiction all my life. Lived for a long time in Borneo and Thailand so in the last some years back in Canada have had the pleasure of reading all the stuff that didn't make the bookstores of Kuching or Bangkok. Admirer of the works of LeGuin, McIntyre, Tepper, Butler, Charnas. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:43:13 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Marie Groppi Subject: Re: What is feminism? In-Reply-To: <199707081528.LAA22525@mail.med.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Anastasia McPherson wrote: > And I wont even start with the etical issues surrounding all of the new > reproductive technology - but one question - how would you feel if you > were born of combination anonymous sperm and egg donation and carried by > a surrogate and would never in your life have any idea where your human > roots were? Whatever. How about being an adoptee? It's much the same thing--I have no idea where my "human roots" are, and really, I think the whole thing is over-hyped. It would be nice to find out about my birth parents so that I know what lurks in my medical history, but honestly, I feel no sense of loneliness or disconnectedness. I -have- a family, a very close-knit and loving one, and it matters not a bit that we share no genetic material. What is it with the emphasis on blood kin, anyway? Yes, I'm aware that many adoptees do feel a loss. It's something that varies by individual, but it's entirely inaccurate to say that the disconnectedness causes a loss. Right, off-topic. Sorry about that, this is one of my button-push issues. -- Susan groppi@hcs.harvard.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i found god in myself and i loved her i loved her fiercely -- n.shange ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:05:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: Jo Clayton Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I thought these excerpts from the SF-Lovers list regarding Jo Clayton might be of interest. Note the last one, regarding financial assistance in defraying medical costs. Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:05:13 -0400 From: Saul Jaffe Reply-To: SF-LOVERS-WRITTEN@rutgers.edu Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V22 #223 SF-LOVERS Digest Tuesday, 8 Jul 1997 Volume 22 : Issue 223 ------------------------------ Subject: Drum Warning - Jo Clayton I have very mixed feelings about whether to recommend this one (even though I liked it). It is extremely Jo-Claytoney, which means among other things that it is long, complex, leisurely, and the first book of a trilogy. The problem with this, of course, is that the state of Jo Clayton's health raises the possibility that we may not see part three, even if we get part two (the periodic reports from the northwest we see on the newsgroups do say she has continued to write through all of this). More of what 'Jo-Claytoney' means. Jo Clayton is probably the foremost current practitioner of an old literary style. She sets numerous plot threads in motion, following good guys, bad guys, and in-between guys; then moves back and forth between the threads, prodding here and massaging there. While her books themselves don't so remind me, this style reminds me most strongly of ERB's Tarzan books, especially the middle arc where the focus was not always squarely on Tarzan. (This analogy really holds well with the later Diadem books, where the focus was not always squarely on Aletys) On this book, we have seven major POV characters (three apparantly good, four apparantly not good) and four or five minor POV characters, spread over two planets. To my feeling, the weaving of the threads is done well here, as they go their separate ways, sometimes paralleling sometimes intersecting (of course by this point I may be just attuned to JC's shifting POV style). The problem is that as you hit the end of the book, after 382 pages, what you really have is the stage set. Selfishly, I hope JC continues to improve physically. I'd like to know what happens to Cymel. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 1997 04:12:46 -0400 From: cpf@light.lightlink.com (Courtenay Footman) Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Drum Warning - Jo Clayton All I know about Clayton's health is what I read in Locus. The latest (June) issue says "Jo Clayton [...] is officially off the critical list." I hope this has not changed for the worse? BTW, the Locus note ends with a statement that she completed a novel, and has started work on the third book in the "Drums of Chance" series. The penultimate statement in the note is a plea for (tax-deductible) funds to help Clayton pay her medical expenses; the address given is: Oregon SF&F Emergency Trust c/o OSFCI, P. O. Box 5703, Portland OR 97228 Courtenay Footman cpf@lightlink.com ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest *********************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:18:04 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Women writers of color In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970708231816.0069ebe0@m3.sprynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Holly Yasui wrote: >I read an interesting book by Linda Nagata, whom I assume is Japanese >American, called *The Bohr Maker.* It's a cyberpunkish (?? if cyberpunk is >what I think it is) story set in futuristic Tokyo. Doesn't come close to >Butler's incredible range of issues and insights (*Kindred* and the >*Xenogenesis* trilogy really blew me away), but she's the only other >identifiable woman of color science fiction writer I've come across in my >very unstructured reading. I am extremely enthusiastic about _The Bohr Maker_. It may be one of the very best nanotech novels yet. It is also Linda Nagata's first published novel, and, IMHO, outstanding for a first novel. (Actually, it's her first sale -- her first novel was published more recently, and isn't as good, but I'm going to keep watching for her!) If I recall from the blurbs, she's Hawaiian. (Hawaii doesn't *have* a racial majority!) Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:16:58 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Worldcon, Aussiecon (was Re: So who is on this list?) Comments: To: Bronwen Turner In-Reply-To: <85F94015D3@nchecr.unsw.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>You DO know the Worldcon is going back to Melbourne in two years, don't >>you? I ask just to double-check; it would be too much of a shame to get >>the news too late! >Oh dear, do I have to express my ignorance so soon after de-lurking? >I have no idea what Worldcon is, or that it will be in Melbourne in a >couple of years. Is these a contact for more information?. I'm >always keen on a good talkfest!! The World Science Fiction Convention is almost sixty years old. It is usually in the United States over "Labor Day Weekend" (the first Monday in September, the customary end of summer (don't get me started on why the US' "Labor Day" is at the end of the summer and "Law Day" is May 1!!)) The Worldcon can be anywhere, though, and has been in Europe twice (that I recall), Britain a few times, and Australia twice. Groups of fans put together bids to have the Worldcon in their city, and the members of the convention vote to select the future site (since Worldcon is lately around 6,000 people, the selection is three years in advance to reserve the hotel). This year will be San Antonio, Texas; next year will be Baltimore, Maryland; 1999 will be in Melbourne; 2000 will be here in Chicago [it hasn't been voted on yet, but the Chicago bid is so strong it's unopposed]. Here are some URLs about Worldcon and cons in general: Worldcon & NASFIC Bids Worldcon Bids and NASFiC Bids SF-Lovers Convention Listings Minicon 33 Homepage WisCon Homepage Here are some general fannish & fanzine URLs: The New York Review of Science Fiction Home Page Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy, & Utopia Web Version of the Fannish E-Mail Directory Internet Speculative Fiction DataBase
Internet Speculative Fiction DataBase Laurie Mann's Home Page The Timebinders Home Page Arisia SF Resources Hazel's Info Files: Smofs and Fans Sci ence Fiction Resource Guide: Fandom
Hugo Award Winners, 1953-1995 Nebula Awards, 1965-1994 John W. Campbell Memorial Award Winners The Tiptree Award Wor ld Fantasy Award Winners L ocus Award Winners The most comprehensive directory of SF/Fantasy/Space and Surreal Art on the Net! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:27:48 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michelle Kendrick Subject: Re: Joanna Russ/Kate Wilhelm In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kate WIlhelm wrote _Where late the sweet birds sang_. I wrote a paper once on this book, back in grad school. _______________________________________________________________ Michelle R. Kendrick Assistant Professor of English Washington State University 14204 NE Salmon Creek Avenue Vancouver, Washington 98686 (360)546-9645 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:53:31 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Readercon In-Reply-To: <9707081053.AA24379@gemb1.ae.ge.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Readercon happens this weekend, July 11-13. Guests of honour are Algis Budrys and Kim Stanley Robinson. It's in Westborough, I think, at the Westborough Marriot hotel, which is now sold out for the con, but there are hotels nearby. For a list of other attendees and more info: http://www.mit.edu/~zeno/readercon/html -nalo On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Sandy Moltz wrote: > Dear Nalo, and anyone else with information: > Since I live in the Boston area, could you > please send any information on Readercon, > i.e.times/places/authors appearing/contact > information? > Thanks a lot, > Sandy Moltz > ssm@pdd8.ae.ge.com > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:07:55 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michelle Kendrick Subject: Mars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I am beginning research that will culminate in a CD-ROM on Mars (that's the topic, not the location :-). It will be on the science and science fiction of Mars -- using interviews with both practicing scientist who are working on the Mars projects and with writers who use Mars in their sci-fi works. (for instance, I interview Robinson at the end of the month). We are interested in exploring Mars as a cultural artifact -- exploring the powerful mythos and the scientific discourse... I have no women yet in the loop, which is depressing me... Is there anyone who uses Mars in their work in interesting ways? Help, I don't wanna work with just boys :-{. (tho I do have a woman meteorologists who studies the weather on Mars who just agreed to talk to me). Michelle _______________________________________________________________ Michelle R. Kendrick Assistant Professor of English Washington State University 14204 NE Salmon Creek Avenue Vancouver, Washington 98686 (360)546-9645 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:48:05 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & uto