"FEMINISTSF LOG9708B" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:49:35 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Armstrong Subject: Raphael Carter Homepage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 'tis at: http://www.wavefront.com/~raphael/ ...an intriguing site that stuck in my mind long after I first happened on it, about 18 months ago. Hir topics include: Androgyny RAQ (Rarely Asked Questions) The Darmok Dictionary Jain-List Home Page Enjoy! -- Susan Susan Armstrong * Vancouver, Canada * anariska@mortimer.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:24:37 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Holly Yasui Subject: Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:06 PM 8/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >Are there any characters in a utopia who drink beer, play pool, and are >> >rude to the neighbours now-and-again? >> >> Easy: it's fantasy, not science fiction. > > I think we just found the answer to everything. What do you >think? ;) > >Kate Bolin Does this mean that fantasy should just be quickly dismissed as facile? (I assume it's OK to discuss fantasy, since it's in the title description of the list). ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:17:34 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Holly Yasui Subject: Re: utopias, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:33 AM 8/2/97 -0400, Tanya wrote: >An exception (to 'niceness') is a novel I just read called "The Jigsaw Woman" by Kim >Antineau (?). This sounds fascinating. I don't see it on the bibliographies at this site. Can you post more specific information? >Someone asked for a utopia where people are rude and fail- I can >think of no better example than Delany's _Triton_, where the >protagonist, Bron, definitely does not fit in, and the technical >sophisication of this society (he can change sex at will) does not help at >all.S/he is really a total prick: and what can any utopian society do >about that? Exactly. You don't have to be a man to be a prick (re: "honorary men" -- do they really advance the cause of feminism?). I can get ahold of this book, but I'm intrigued. In your opinion, how is this mis-fitting resolved, how do the utopians defend themselves against him/her? To me, this is one of the biggest stumbling block of making ideal feminist utopias real. Joan Slonczewski in "A Door Into Ocean" has an interesting resolution for dealing with infractions of the society's mores: "unspeaking" (socially isolating) the individual. This, however, assumes that the individual cares about community and is thus deeply affected, and is nonviolent and so doesn't just force her way back in. It also seems to me that in Le Guin's "The Dispossessed" there's an insightful solution, but I don't have the book with me and can't recall the details. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:15:37 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Edward James Subject: Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970809002437.0068b804@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Holly Yasui wrote: > At 04:06 PM 8/1/97 -0500, you wrote: > >> >Are there any characters in a utopia who drink beer, play pool, and are > >> >rude to the neighbours now-and-again? > >> Well, not pool, but wrestling and softball; beer, yes; and yes to the neighbours too. You'll find them all in Kim Stanley Robinson's _Pacific Edge_ (1990), the best literary utopia (IMHO!) since Delany's Triton... Edward James ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:35:56 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Fantasy as facile: was Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970809002437.0068b804@m3.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >> > >> Easy: it's fantasy, not science fiction. > > > > I think we just found the answer to everything. What do you > >think? ;) > > > >Kate Bolin > > Does this mean that fantasy should just be quickly dismissed as facile? (I > assume it's OK to discuss fantasy, since it's in the title description of > the list). > Of course not. Much fantasy, although enjoyable, is lightweight and facile, but then so is much science fiction. There's nothing facile about Sheri Tepper's Beauty, John Crowley's Little Big, Michael Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter, Pat Hodgell's Godstalk, Elizabeth Hand's Waking the Moon, Mary Gentle's Rats and Gargoyles, Peter Beagle's The Innkeeper's Song, Terri Windling's The Wood Wife, or for that matter, her anthology The Armless Maiden, just to name a few personal favorites. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:51:12 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anne V Stuecker Subject: Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing >Well, not pool, but wrestling and softball; beer, yes; and yes to the >neighbours too. You'll find them all in Kim Stanley Robinson's _Pacific >Edge_ (1990), the best literary utopia (IMHO!) since Delany's Triton... > >Edward James What do you think of the Mars trilogy, Edward? I've read _PE_ and am interested in some sort of a comparison, because that's the KSR I'm most familiar with. Thanks. -- Anne "An intellectual always lives as a spy in enemy country." -- Ursula K. LeGuin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: DAVID CHRISTENSON Subject: Re: Fortunate Fall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: David Christenson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > I really liked Carter's style; it's a bit ornate, but beautiful. And I also > liked the way the various pop-in modules worked, particularly the African ones. I agree with you here. Carter has a fluid prose style, and the use of simile and metaphor to help evoke virtual experiences was very effective . The presence of a wired-up Africa at the fringes of the narrative was effective. > The last part of the book is talky by conventional sf standards, but I saw it > not so much as a narrative lump, but rather as a kind of "My Dinner with > Andre"-style conversation or Platonic dialogue between a couple of fascinating > people. Since much of that section was in the form of an interview, it made narrative sense. And it was pretty interesting - but I still felt a bit info-dumped-upon. > The gender-bending material is interesting, particularly if you know something > about Carter him/herself. Check out Carter's home page. It should be easy to > find through any search engine. I encountered Carter at Diversicon here in Minneapolis last year. As intriguing in person and on panels as in print - very challenging to our gender-obsessed society, as well as a learned conversationalist in many areas. Anyway, I didn't want to imply that I disliked, or was not impressed by, the book. I haven't read a lot of cyber-themed fiction, and I figgered it would be tough going, but Carter juggled plenty of information and character development without losing me. (I understand this book is still in the running for a Nebula, BTW.) -- David Christenson - ldqt79a@prodigy.com "The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:33:49 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: patricia johnston Subject: Los Angeles: A.D.2017 Philip Wylie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, Picked up this novel from a second hand bookstore for $1.00, and was not expecting much. However as I got into the story line found it had some interesting/scary realities. The inhabitants of this "underground world", are all that remain of Los Angeles when smog/pollution kills most people. The new underground society has a government called USA CORPORATION. Sex education is taught at kindergarden level. All persons are classified A,B,or C. A being the most usefull to the society,,and A-Plus the most desired. The mating of the A-Plus`s is encouraged, to bred a superior race. The sick, aged, and "unproductive" are not welcome in this society. Any comments on this novel??? Patricia. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:03:14 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970809002437.0068b804@m3.sprynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >Are there any characters in a utopia who drink beer, play pool, and are >>> >rude to the neighbours now-and-again? >>> Easy: it's fantasy, not science fiction. >> >> I think we just found the answer to everything. What do you >>think? ;) > >Does this mean that fantasy should just be quickly dismissed as facile? (I >assume it's OK to discuss fantasy, since it's in the title description of >the list). No, simply that fantasy has far weaker requirements of logical consistency that science fiction. Neil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:01:12 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Raphael Carter Homepage In-Reply-To: <05493521801635@mortimer.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Armstrong wrote: >http://www.wavefront.com/~raphael/ > >...an intriguing site that stuck in my mind long after I first happened on >it, about 18 months ago. >Hir topics include: > Androgyny RAQ (Rarely Asked Questions) > The Darmok Dictionary > Jain-List Home Page (Raphael is intersexual, and adamantly refuses pronoun preference.) Raphael's next book involves a Jain on a starship. There is also an absolutely hysterical story in the form of a scientific paper, with a long scientific title something like, "Congenital Agenisis of Gender Ideation", about the disconvery of a rare human mutation whose carriers simply don't percieve "maleness" and "femaleness" in other humans. Ze's read it at a couple of cons, and I can't wait for its final polish and publication. It's a scream. Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Armstrong Subject: Re: Raphael Carter Homepage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Hir topics include: >> Androgyny RAQ (Rarely Asked Questions) >> The Darmok Dictionary >> Jain-List Home Page > >(Raphael is intersexual, and adamantly refuses pronoun preference.) > umm, I know... why d'ya think I wrote "hir" ? That is just why I like zir, ZIR, page so much (to use the genuwine Raphaelite pronoun). I very much hope I can meet this person someday. Guess I oughta read the book, huh? :-) -- Susan (not snoozin') Susan Armstrong * Vancouver, Canada * anariska@mortimer.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 04:02:33 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Raphael Carter Homepage In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970808090112.006c6b90@tezcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've only seen the words 'ze' and 'zir' in print. Can anyone tell me how to pronounce them? Is 'ze' said like zee or zhee? 'Zir' like zurr or zhurr? -nalo "You'll say reality is under no obligation to be interesting. To which I'd reply that reality may disregard the obligation but that we may not." -Jorge Luis Borges ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 10:08:06 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Edward James Subject: Re: fantasy, was Fifth Sacred Thing In-Reply-To: <19970808.105151.16046.0.avs5@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Anne V Stuecker wrote: > >Well, not pool, but wrestling and softball; beer, yes; and yes to the > >neighbours too. You'll find them all in Kim Stanley Robinson's _Pacific > >Edge_ (1990), the best literary utopia (IMHO!) since Delany's Triton... > > > >Edward James > > What do you think of the Mars trilogy, Edward? I've read _PE_ and am > interested in some sort of a comparison, because that's the KSR I'm most > familiar with. > > Thanks. > > -- Anne > If you _really_ want to know what I think of the trilogy, read my review of Blue Mars in an issue of Times Literary Supplement last year: it went something like this... (Well, exactly like this, actually :-) Robinson's first trilogy, made up of _The Wild Shore_, _The Gold Coast_ and _Pacific Edge_, looked at Orange Country, California, in the middle of three very different twenty-first centuries, and had already established Robinson as a major American writer. _Pacific Edge_ (1990) is surely the most convincing (and attractive) utopian novel written since the 1970s. But the completed _Mars_ trilogy, which began with _Red Mars_ (1992) and continued with _Green Mars_ (1993) [[and finished with _Blue Mars_ 1996]], now puts Robinson in a position of preeminence among contemporary writers in this most quintessentially contemporary literary genre. This is not because Robinson is "the best", whatever that means. It is because he has taken the notion that is absolutely central to science fiction -- the extrapolation of current trends and beliefs into the construction of a future history for our civilisation -- to more detailed and epic lengths than any of his predecessors. Mars will for a long time remain the touchstone of what is possible in this kind of science fiction. Tremendous scientific and environmental changes can be analysed, and a future history written, in a way that does not diminish or dwarf the human protagonists. The sequence of titles refers to the gradual terraforming of the red planet, taking place over the period of two centuries covered by the novels (or by the three parts of one novel, around a million words long). By the second volume the sometimes brutal engineering projects have formed the conditions for the transplantation of genetically-altered plant and animal life; by the end of _Blue Mars_, seas and lakes have been created, and the atmosphere has become almost breathable. There are a number of assumptions we have to accept before the novel can seem plausible; that the whole process of the colonisation and terraforming of Mars was deemed economic by Earth governments; that terraforming could indeed be virtually complete within two centuries; and that we might develop a technique to prolong life. I had initial doubts about the wisdom of including this last device; but I discover that I am writing this review in the week in which American scientists have announced the location of the gene which controls aging. In the novels the technique causes tremendous population problems on both Earth and Mars, bringing political crisis in _Blue Mars_. But it allows some of the First Hundred, the initial multinational team of colonists who landed on Mars in 2020 (in _Red Mars_), to remain the people through whose eyes we see the events, right to the end of _Blue Mars_, in 2212. The prolongation of life thus becomes a literary device which knits the three novels together into one, and allows the reader to become involved in the development of the human characters as well as of the unearthly landscapes. Robinson is indeed very moving in his description of the human personality in the face of extreme age, and through the eyes of these immigrants from Earth we see the emergence of the new ways of living devised by the generations born on Mars. As one might have anticipated from his earlier Orange County trilogy, Robinson is much stronger than most science fiction writers on sociology and on politics. Not only do his scientists feel like real scientists-- the excitement of science is captured beautifully, and this from a writer whose PhD is in English -- but they also feel like real scientists trying to cope with politics. By theend of _Blue Mars_ a system has evolved, after three political revolutions, which might well be described as utopian. But it is a Utopia that the reader has to infer from hints and from the nature of human relationships; it is never described in detail, tediously, as in a traditional utopian novel. The revolutions not only involve a struggle with Earth, but also between various groups on Mars itself. It is above all a struggle about the future of landscape and environment. Initially it is between the Reds and the Greens, where the Reds, of course, are the conservationists who want to preserve Mars as far as possible in its untouched, red, state; the Greens are the revolutionaries, who want to remake Mars in Earth's image. But by the beginning of _Blue Mars_ the Reds are a spent force: the political struggle now is over the level of immigration from Earth. The new landscape has already been created. And it is really the changing landscape which is the main protagonist of this extraordinary novel. Robinson, himself a mountaineer and backpacker, portrays landscape with enormous passion and poetry. He knows his areography well; the vividness of his description makes his fictional Mars seem so much more real than the actual surface of the Moon which we have glimpsed through the mundane words of the Apollo astronauts. The research which Robinson has done into Mars and its areography occasionally threatens to overwhelm the reader. But it also adds to his authority, and to the paradoxical realism of this very impressive work of the imagination. That was the review. Whether it is at all relevant to _this_ particular list, I do not know. I would argue that the utopias depicted in _Pactific Edge_ and in _Blue Mars_ are in fact feminist utopias -- at least in the sense that a state of egalitarianism between men and women has been reached by the end of _Blue Mars_. And I think that Robinson has created a number of very powerful and plausible women in the trilogy. (Less so in _Pacific Edge_, though.) But I realise that the whole business of whether men can write feminist novels (Brin's _Glory Season_??) is a controversial one... Edward James .............................................................................. Professor Edward James, Dept of History, Faculty of Letters and Social Sciences, University of Reading, Whiteknights, READING RG6 6AA, UK http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~lhsjamse/home.htm Editor: FOUNDATION: THE INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF SCIENCE FICTION Joint Editor: EARLY MEDIEVAL EUROPE .............................................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 15:16:27 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anne V Stuecker Subject: Mars Trilogy Thanks for the review, Edward. I started reading _Red Mars_ yesterday, and I'm really enjoying it. I find that I have a certain affinity with KSR that I don't usually have with male writers. -- Anne "An intellectual always lives as a spy in enemy country." -- Ursula K. LeGuin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 04:28:30 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Sells Subject: Re: listservs Comments: To: Hope Cascio In-Reply-To: <33EDFFF6.787F@gte.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The addy to the feminist sf list is feministsf@listserv.uic.edu Probably to subscribe you type listserv@listserv.uic.edu? for mine: listserv@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu SUBSCRIBE IWMS-L CASCIO, HOPE and then post to iwms-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:53:31 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: schant Subject: Re: utopias, was Fifth Sacred Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly Yasui wrote: > > Joan Slonczewski in "A Door Into Ocean" has an interesting resolution for > dealing with infractions of the society's mores: "unspeaking" (socially > isolating) the individual. This, however, assumes that the individual cares > about community and is thus deeply affected, and is nonviolent and so > doesn't just force her way back in. It also seems to me that in Le Guin's > "The Dispossessed" there's an insightful solution, but I don't have the > book with me and can't recall the details. Didn't they undergo regular "self-criticism" sessions like those of the Chinese marxist revolution, where they criticised themselves and each other? I seem to remember she did more-or-less the reverse in "Always Coming Home" where the social misfit would be surrounded by members of the community all saying good things about them. -- "Take what you want", said God. "Take it - and pay for it." Old Spanish proverb, quoted in "South Riding" by Winifred Holtby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:29:21 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: utopias/A Door Into Ocean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Joan Slonczewski in "A Door Into Ocean" has an interesting resolution for > > dealing with infractions of the society's mores: "unspeaking" > > Didn't they undergo regular "self-criticism" sessions like those of the > Chinese marxist revolution, where they criticised themselves and each > other? [ I don't think anything in here is really a spoiler... ] Kind of. In _A Door Into Ocean_, the Sharers each take a self-name as they become fully-adult members of society. The self-name is supposed to be chosen from one's faults. One then tries to outlive the name. For example, a person who perceives herself to be selfish might choose "Selfish One". Of course, a number of potential questions are not directly answered (I have my own answers, but I shan't foist them upon you all ;-): Who decides when one has outlived her name? What is done (if anything) for people who choose not to outlive their names? What if one chooses not to take a self-name? For a person to take part in a "Gathering" (a governing body that makes all decisions by consensus), she must have taken a self-name. Anyway, I find this model of society fascinating--I just wonder how workable it really is. -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - briggs@macbsd.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:14:17 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bonnie Gray Subject: Re: utopias/A Door Into Ocean I don't have the book with me right now, but wasn't it considered a great accomplishment to outlive one's name, reserved to a very few (or maybe everyone, eventually) revered elders? I don't remember the exact treatment, but I know the author at least mentioned it... A fine book (Door Into Ocean). I have noticed that the second book (Daughters of Elysium (spelling?)) has received some flack. I actually read that one first, and I liked it almost as much as Door Into Ocean. Bonnie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:39:12 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: utopias/A Door Into Ocean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > wasn't it considered a great accomplishment to outlive one's name, > reserved to a very few (or maybe everyone, eventually) revered elders? I do remember it being mentioned. In fact, I think it was said that if you outlived your name quickly enough, it wasn't a good/challenging enough name. I don't recall any specifics, though. Of course, it was a great accomplishment to outlive one's name, but I don't think that it was something that happened for everyone. I also think that it seemed to be something that everyone tried for but few expected to ever achieve. > A fine book (Door Into Ocean). I have noticed that the second > book (Daughters of Elysium (spelling?)) has received some flack. > I actually read that one first, and I liked it almost as much > as Door Into Ocean. I liked them both alot. Each one had its strengths and weaknesses, though. _Daughters_ is certainly more complex, but _Door_ has much more about the Sharers. -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - briggs@macbsd.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:53:42 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bonnie Gray Subject: Re: utopias/A Door Into Ocean Yes, _Door_ had more about Sharers; _Daughters_ was full of more societies, but each wasn't delved into depth as much as the Sharers in _Door_. Bonnie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Raphael Carter Homepage In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nalo Hopkinson wrote: >I've only seen the words 'ze' and 'zir' in print. Can anyone tell me how >to pronounce them? Is 'ze' said like zee or zhee? 'Zir' like zurr or zhurr? I've prounounced them with a hard Z, 'zee' and 'zir'. You tempt me, though to vary my pronounciation occasionally. I think Raphael might be amused. Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "George Elgin, Suzette Haden Elgin" Subject: A Door Into Ocean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "A Door Into Ocean" is one of my favorite sf novels; reading it (together with CJ Cherryh's "Foreigner") will teach more about semantics, and translation, and crosscultural communication, than a whole stack of university courses in those subjects. The word-coinings in "Door Into Ocean," especially in the semantic domains of sharing and violence, are superb. As to whether a culture like the one in "A Door Into Ocean" could work -- I think it could, yes, but it would be very hard slogging, with a steep learning curve, and would take vastly more courage than it takes to just keep on going to war. Suzette ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:09:24 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sally Kamholtz Subject: Delurk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, I'll stop lurking, if only to welcome Suzette Haden Elgin to the list. Her very fine Native Tongue and its discussion of a women's language hidden within a hostile patriarchal language forsees the language of the Sharers in Slonczewski's wonderful Door to Ocean, both novels I teach in my women's science fiction course. I love this list. I am continually amazed and inspired by the passion and depth and acuity of its discussions by people whose work I ardently admire. Thank you. Sally Kamholtz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:32:18 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicole Youngman Subject: Re: Delurk << OK, I'll stop lurking, if only to welcome Suzette Haden Elgin to the list. >> Allow me to add a wholehearted second to that!! I just read the 1st _Native Tongue_ book after searching used book stores all over the place for a copy for a couple of years. Welcome, Suzette! Nicole ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:10:47 -0700 Reply-To: cynthia1960@home.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cynthia Gonsalves Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Delurk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicole Youngman wrote: > << OK, I'll stop lurking, if only to welcome Suzette Haden Elgin to > the list. > >> > > Allow me to add a wholehearted second to that!! I just read the 1st > _Native > Tongue_ book after searching used book stores all over the place for a > copy > for a couple of years. Welcome, Suzette! > > Nicole And a heartfelt third...the Native Tongue books are on my short list of things that must be re-read often! Thanks! Cynthia -- Total pleasure is a good book, a comfortable couch, and a cat curled up beside you. http://members.home.net/cynthia1960/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:30:54 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "George Elgin, Suzette Haden Elgin" Subject: Re: Delurk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bless your hearts, welcomers -- one and all. I appreciate it. I'm sorry to have tell those of you who want Native Tongue for your courses that it's out of print -- totally. I'm pleased, on the other hand, to be able to tell you that DAW has returned the rights to all three books in the NT batch to me, and that my agent is looking for a reprint publisher. While the search goes on, I've been supplying autographed photocopies of the first book to people who need them, for what it costs us to copy and ship -- a very primitive way to go, but the best option I'm able to offer at this moment..... Thanks again, and my thanks for the encouraging words and sustaining songs... Suzette ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Teragram Subject: Re: Native Tongue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >While the search goes on, I've been supplying autographed photocopies of the >first book to people who need them, for what it costs us to copy and ship >-- a very primitive way to go, but the best option I'm able to offer at >this moment..... So, where do we send our checks? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:43:25 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicole Youngman Subject: Native Tongue << I'm pleased, on the other hand, to be able to tell you that DAW has returned the rights to all three books in the NT batch to me, and that my agent is looking for a reprint publisher. >> Good luck!! Are all three out of print now? I bought the last two fairly recently (within the last couple of years), it was only the first one I had trouble finding. Nicole ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:29:57 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jeanine Pedersen Subject: Re: Light reading I'll be going into the hospital for a few days and I am looking for some good books -- something light so I don't have to think to hard, preferably long so I don't have to make my husband go to the book store more than once. Fantasy suggestions would be as appreciated as much SF (but not horror). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:33:11 CDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Mary Ann Beavis, IUS" Organization: The University of Winnipeg Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <970813132748_889243540@emout20.mail.aol.com> This is not a fantasy or SF title, but it is extremely long and extremely good, _A Suitable Boy_ by Vikram Seth. Also, in the SF/Fantasy genre (also long) is Elisabeth Vonarburg's _The Maerlande Chronicles_ (also titled _In the Mother's Land_ in the U.S.). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:59:34 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicole Youngman Subject: Re: Light reading I just finished Scarborough's _The Godmother_. Very enjoyable. Nicole ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:25:17 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: NESchaadt Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <970813132748_889243540@emout20.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd suggest the obvious: Marion Zimmer Bradley _The Mists of Avalon_. Hmmmm. Baen Fantasy published the Elizabeth Moon trilogy _The Deed of Paksenarrion_ (Sheepfarmer's Daughter, Divided Allegiance and Oath of Gold) in a nice, fat paperback edition. _The Legacy of Gird_ (Surrender None and Liar's Oath) was also offered as a Baen trade paperback. You could also think about re-reading warm, chicken soup books like the Chronicles of Narnia (OK, it's a chicken soup series for *me*). Although technically horror, I might also suggest Clive Barker _Weaveworld_. Best wishes and healthy thoughts, NS At 01:29 PM 8/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'll be going into the hospital for a few days and I am looking for some good >books -- something light so I don't have to think to hard, preferably long so >I don't have to make my husband go to the book store more than once. Fantasy >suggestions would be as appreciated as much SF (but not horror). Nancy E. Schaadt phone: 214 943 4347 fax: 214 946 7887 e-m: nschaadt@txcc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:31:21 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ruth Ann Jones Subject: Re: Light reading Neither of these books is very long (in fact, the second one is quite short) but I've recently read "Bellwether" and "Uncharted Territory" by Connie Willis and both were quite amusing and (to be honest) not terribly deep, so they would be easy reads for while you're in the hospital. "Bellwether" is about a sociologist who studies fads, and "Uncharted Territory" is about a pair of explorers dealing with red tape while trying to map a planet soon after first contact. --Ruth Ann ---------- From: Jeanine Pedersen[SMTP:Jeanine99@AOL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 1:30 PM To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Subject: Re: Light reading I'll be going into the hospital for a few days and I am looking for some good books -- something light so I don't have to think to hard, preferably long so I don't have to make my husband go to the book store more than once. Fantasy suggestions would be as appreciated as much SF (but not horror). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:32:35 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <970813145820_687914950@emout07.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just finished Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere", his first novel. A fascinating light read.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In a world where every day is a constant struggle for survival, you need all the Gods you can get!" --Londo Mollari "Parliment of Dreams" Kate Bolin (SIDB LADB RELW) http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Queen of Delenn Deserves Better! http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/9060 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:28:54 GMT Reply-To: EWBennefeld@worldnet.att.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Elizabeth Wicker Organization: The Written Word Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <970813132748_889243540@emout20.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 13 Aug 97 17:29:57 +0000, Jeanine Pedersen wrote: >I'll be going into the hospital for a few days and I am looking for some good >books -- something light so I don't have to think to hard, preferably long so >I don't have to make my husband go to the book store more than once. Fantasy >suggestions would be as appreciated as much SF (but not horror). You did specify "light" reading, so -- Anvil of the Sun (and the second book, Bridge of Valor) of The Cloak and Dagger series by Anne Lesley Groell. Jody Lynn Nye's "Mythology" books: Mythology 101, Mythology Abroad, Higher Mythology. If you like short stories, there's a collection of short stories (Daw Books) edited by Anne McCaffrey and Elizabeth A. Scarborough called Space Opera. The copyright date is Dec. 1996, but it just hit our bookstore shelves. It's a few months out of date, but I've got our SF reading list (just the books we liked from the ones we've read so far this year) out on my web site: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6505/sflist.htm There 're little notes after the ones I liked particularly. My husband has two categories of good books. "Not bad" (take it or leave it) and "Damned book!" (the ones he stays up all night to read, and then has trouble making it through work the next day). I have yet to find an appropriate translation for that for our web site. Best regards, Elizabeth ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ AT&T Worldnet Personal Web Page Beta Tester http://home.att.net/~EWBennefeld/ Elizabeth's Haven http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6505/ The Voice Within/LOTH Art Gallery http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/9346/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:41:14 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marsha Valance Subject: Re: Light reading -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jeanine, Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Vorkosigian adventures are good, quick, enjoyable sf adventures. The most recent are _Cetaganda_ and _Memory_. For quick, light fantasy, what about Melanie Rawn's Dragonhold books. They remind me of the old R.F. Delderfield family sagas, but with dragons and sorcerers added. Good luck with your hospital stay. Marsha Valance ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:47:02 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Eleanor Arnason Subject: Re: Light reading You might try EMERALD HOUSE RISING by Peg Kerr, a local MInnneapolis fantasy writer. I found the first third slow, but it has started to take off. (I'm about half way through now.) Anyway, I'm reading it on the bus going to work. It might be good hospital reading. Good luck with whatever is going on. All best, Eleanor Arnason ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:39:56 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: World Con in San Antonio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reminder to FEMSF members who will be attending that I will be mostly stuck at the table in the "J" island, and will welcome the chance to meet any of you as you cruise by. Already drooling over the chance to hit a kaffeeklatche with Suzy, if possible! Cheers, Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:04:29 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <970813174601_310012970@emout02.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tanya Huff's _Blood Lines,_ _Blood Trail_ and _Blood Price_ are good comfort food books; sort of detective vampire stories set in Ontario. Not a whole lot of horror in them, and both the detective (a woman who's had to quit the police force because of failing eyesight) and the vampire (a polymorphously sexy, ageless being who supports himself by writing historical romances) are kind of engaging. Kim Stanley Robinson's _Pacifice Edge_ is wonderful. It's by no means lightweight, but it goes down easy; a believable, non-saccharine utopia with very human conflicts. I've always liked _Bone Dance_ and _War For the Oaks_ by Emma Bull. The former is a blend of urban sf and fantasy; the latter a war between Good and Evil in Faerie with a feyborn man eerily reminiscent of Prince as the love interest. And I like _Tam Lin_ by Pamela Dean, which sets the Tam Lin myth amongst Classics students on a university campus. One more: _An Open Weave_ by devorah major. Magic realism. A gently-told story about three generations of eldritch women in a little town called Buttonhole right at the Mexican border. Hope all goes well with you. -nalo "You'll say reality is under no obligation to be interesting. To which I'd reply that reality may disregard the obligation but that we may not." -Jorge Luis Borges ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:30:03 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Holly Yasui Subject: utopias/A Door Into Ocean In-Reply-To: <19970811092921.09412@puma.macbsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:29 AM 8/11/97 -0400, Allan wrote: >Anyway, I find this model of society fascinating--I just wonder how >workable it really is. I think the Sharer society of *Door into Ocean* is a wonderful model for an egalitarian and nonviolent society, and eminently workable ... they resolve internal conflicts cooperatively, are able to incorporate "outsiders" into their community (the young man who comes to live with them) and also able to deflect the attack of the patriarchal and militaristic forces from the main planet nonviolently. To me, the big question is how do we get there? I think it's important that it's a classless society, in terms of "private property" and skin color (internally; non-Sharers call Sharers "purple fish"); there's a pervasive ecological awareness, including a consciously symbiotic relationship between the Sharers and their living homes; and their social practices and language assume mutual responsibility in all actions (I thought the verb forms in particular were fascinating.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:58:53 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jane Arnett Subject: Re: World Con in San Antonio What are the dates of the World Con in San Antonio? AJ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:22:38 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jane Arnett Subject: Re: World Con in San Antonio What are the dates of the World Con in San Antonio? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:17:32 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Freddie Baer Subject: Geekgirl seeking contributors Forwarded by Freddie Baer for Rosie Cross of Geekgirl magazine: *************** Geekgirl (TM) is the world's first cyberfeminist hyperzine and Australia's most popular webzine site. A tool of buttkicking empowerment since Jan 1995: on the web @ (http://www.geekgirl.com.au/geekgirl/). Geekgirl's December issue will be a blend of travel and science fiction, and they're looking for people to contribute text, sound and graphics for this issue. Contributors need to submit by October 15th. Included will be your bio, and any further work or website you choose to highlight. Compensation is not currently available. But it's a terrific platform and opportunity to showcase your work. Get ready for take-off! e-mail submissions to Rosie X at: gg@geekgirl.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:31:40 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ildney Cavalcanti Subject: The Jigsaw Woman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tanya wrote: >An exception is a novel I just read called "The Jigsaw Woman" by Kim >Antineau (?). Its definitely post-modern in style, fragmented and >non-linear. It contains a neat utopian past, before "Daddy" controlled all >and spoiled all, but neatly avoids sentimentality because its protagonist >is a smart assed, wise cracking and very witty woman. The book is about >"a" woman who has been stitched together from various other (dead) women, >and contains their memories and other memories of woman (usually >suffering) through hsitory: >dying in war, burning when accused of witchcraft, and suffering though >sexual abuse. > >This novel deals only indirectly with technology: the Victor Frankenstein >who stitches the woman together is trying to create a Barby Doll of other >women's perfect parts (although moral absolutism and and stable grounds >for judging others steadily retreats through the novel). Hi, Tanya, Your comments on the novel made me curious... Could you please give us some more reference details? Thanks a lot, Ildney ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:54:20 +0100 Reply-To: L Garforth Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: L Garforth Subject: Re: Pacific Edge, was fantasy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >> >Are there any characters in a utopia who drink beer, play pool, and are > > >> >rude to the neighbours now-and-again? > > >> > > Well, not pool, but wrestling and softball; beer, yes; and yes to the > neighbours too. You'll find them all in Kim Stanley Robinson's _Pacific > Edge_ (1990), the best literary utopia (IMHO!) since Delany's Triton... > > Edward James [Sorry about rather tardy contribution to this discuss, but have been on holiday...] Damn! I was about to make the exact same reference, even down to the wrestling and softball (but what with being British and all, the favoured sport of my Robinson-style utopia would have to be football, the version without the shoulder pads). Thanks to Edward James also for posting the review of the Mars trilogy - since I haven't even got around to reading the rest of the Orange County trilogy, and the Mars stuff seems equally interesting, I can see I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm hoping to do some work on 'Pacific Edge' in terms of how well it works as a green utopia - the main parallels here would be with Callenbach's _Ecotopia_ and Piercy's _Woman on the Edge of Time_ - and I'm particularly interested in the debates between a social ecology and 'deep' ecology that seem to run implicitly through the novel (the latter ambiguously winning out as Kevin saves his precious piece of cliff). Anybody have any ideas? Insofar as it counting as a *feminist* utopia goes - well, I dunno... Since I'm just gearing up for a rereading, and it's a while since I looked at it, my comments may be a little offbeam, but I'm wondering whether this quiet representation of women as simply, unquestionably "equal" (whatever that means) 'counts' as feminist? It seems to me that there are issues about sex, gender, sexuality and culture simmering in the novel that the 'solutions' of communitarian living and unproblematic equal opps don't address. Whose version of equality are we talking about here, and whose terms is it on? We still negotiate this utopia via our messy hero Kevin, whose boyish vulnerability (set alongside the steeliness of his political and love rival whose name I forget) seems to play on fairly standard cultural assumptions and expectations? Anybody else have any thoughts? Lisa Garforth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:56:36 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Allen Briggs Subject: Re: utopias/A Door Into Ocean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I think the Sharer society of *Door into Ocean* is a wonderful model for an > egalitarian and nonviolent society, and eminently workable ... It seems so, but I still wonder how they dealt with "mental illness" and what-all falls in that category. We find out a little about it with Merwen and the discussion of where her scar comes from, but that's not much. We also see a little with the stonesick. Anyway, I guess my question is what outlet does the Sharer society have? If someone is basically a stable, healthy person who does not want to be part of the Sharer society (another question might be, "Is this possible?", but for the sake of argument, say it is), where can that person go? A raft of her own? That doesn't seem safe or really desirable. In _Daughters_, it seems to be normal for young children to go starfaring. That's almost looked on as a sickness, but it does seem like an outlet for people who want to try living in different ways and with different people. > I think it's important that it's a classless society, in terms of "private > property" and skin color (internally; non-Sharers call Sharers "purple > fish"); there's a pervasive ecological awareness, including a consciously > symbiotic relationship between the Sharers and their living homes; and > their social practices and language assume mutual responsibility in all > actions (I thought the verb forms in particular were fascinating.) Definitely--although a professor of philosophy with whom I was discussing the book suggested that the verb "to eat" does not work very well. Merwen eats plants, but there's no direct sharing going on. If you really stretch it, you might say that as Merwen processes the foodstuffs, she generates waste products that the plants will feed on later, but that encompasses much more than the simple action "to eat". Perhaps that's not a verb that translates... Anyway, yes, I think it is important that it's basically a classless society. I think it's also important that the society is technologically advanced (in the biosciences) so that they do not need "metaltech" to solve medical or agricultural problems. They don't have much need for geology, physics, electronics, etc. Some questions that might be interesting to think about... How well would they weather a catastrophic event like a meteor impact? What if something happened to their sun? Where do they go? What do they do? Don't get me wrong, I like the society a lot. I'd be happy to try and learn to like fish more and become a part of that world--even though I work with computer for a living now and that would be a completely useless skill there. I think I'd probably apprentice to a life-shaper... Pax, -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - briggs@macbsd.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:06:18 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: World Con in San Antonio In-Reply-To: <970813225840_166693849@emout02.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >What are the dates of the World Con in San Antonio? Worldcon is Labor Day weekend (unless it's outside North America or the committee had trouble getting that date at their facility, as with Baltimore next year). Here are some useful references (I hope the HTML works -- I'm sure different mail readers are different: WORLDCON Worldcon & NASFIC Bids Worldcon Bids and NASFiC Bids CONVENTION LISTINGS SF-Lovers Convention Listings Stilyagi Air Corps SF Convention List World Fantasy Convention Index GENERAL FANNISH INFO Internet Speculative Fiction DataBase The Linkvping SF&&F Archive The Speculative Fiction Clearing House Links of Interest to Fandom Laurie Mann's Home Page The Timebinders Home Page Scien ce Fiction Resource Guide Arisia SF Resources Science Fiction Resource Guide Hazel's Info Files: Smofs and Fans Sci ence Fiction Resource Guide: Fandom PRIZE WINNERS Hugo Award Winners, 1953-1995 Nebula Awards, 1965-1994 John W. Campbell Memorial Award Winners The Tiptree Award Wor ld Fantasy Award Winners L ocus Award Winners Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:09:52 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: World Con in San Antonio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WorldCon, AKA LoneStarCon 2, will be held in San Antonio August 28 thru Sept 1, 1997. GOHs are Algis Burdys and Michael Moorcock. Artist GOH is Don Maitz, Toastmaster is Neal Barrett, Jr. Other attendees include Connie Willis, C.J. Cherryh, Lois McMaster Bujold, Esther Friesner, Linda Nagata and Bradley Denton. Oh, yes, and ME!! Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: note from list-mistress: subscription updates Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FYI, I have changed the list so (presumably) all messages should have a subject line beginning with *FSFFU* -- to aid and abet filtering programs. Let me know if this causes any problems ... Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:39:29 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Wigod Subject: Re: Light reading In-Reply-To: <92C0047345C@coned.uwinnipeg.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >This is not a fantasy or SF title, but it is extremely long and >extremely good, _A Suitable Boy_ by Vikram Seth. Hahaha! _A Suitable Boy_ for LIGHT reading? I'm laughing because it's not that the _content_ isn't light (it's actually a great read), but the book itself must weigh more than the average newborn! In fact, I got so tired of schlepping it around, I abandoned it halfway through! I'm trying to envision our hospitalized friend trying to deal with that thing! Eek! :-D Laura