"FEMINISTSF LOG9707A" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:20:10 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Emilie Falc Subject: Re: "Parable of the Sower" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Valerie wrote that the Earthseed writings could be used "as a spiritual/political text." Interesting combo. What makes Earthseed spiritual and political? Emilie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: "Parable of the Sower" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Emilie Falc wrote: > Valerie wrote that the Earthseed writings could be used "as a > spiritual/political text." Interesting combo. > What makes Earthseed spiritual and political? > > Emilie > The basic thrust of the Earthseed texts is that it is important to take control of ones own life. Change is a given and only by adapting is survival possible. In general terms this message clearly has both ethical and political implications, it seems to me. It's an activist philosophy and leads the novel's protagonist to make a number of decisions with political implications, ie. to leave her dying community and to found a new community. Given the final premise of the texts, that it is the destiny of Earthseed to take root among the stars, there is the clear implication that, if the Earthseed community ever gains real political power, it will push for an active space program. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:56:46 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Williams Subject: Parable of the Sower Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The U of Toledo is considering Parable as the book every freshman this fall reads and gets to discuss with one or another faculty -- its a new program they are considering. Part of it would be to invite Butler to visit too. Ideas welcome. kate --- Kate Williams University of Toledo Community and Technical College Project Coordinator, Toledo Technology Academy kwillia8@uoft02.utoledo.edu til late June: (419) 531-8340 x205, fax (419) 531-8412 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:42:22 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Beth Middleton Subject: logging off Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did the person who was attempting to log off this discussion group figure out how to do it? If they haven't managed it yet, I have instructions for another system that might help. Beth Dr. Beth Middleton Department of Plant Biology, 411 Life Science II Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois 62901 618-453-3216 FAX: 618-453-3441 Sabbatical Phone and FAX: 618-457-6760 bmiddleton@plant.siu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:00:38 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: Parable of the Sower In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970702135646.00846370@uoft02.utoledo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kate Williams wrote: > The U of Toledo is considering Parable as the book every freshman this fall > reads and gets to discuss with one or another faculty -- its a new program > they are considering. Part of it would be to invite Butler to visit too. > Ideas welcome. > Wow......I admit to being insanely jealous. As far as I remember, Butler's a bit of a hermit. The only reason we got her to visit our high school was because we were in Carson, CA, and one of the teachers could pick her up from Pasadena, CA, and she could get a ride with him. Here at Tulane University, we're hoping to get Butler for the Zale Writer-in-Residence program. It would be a big shift from what we've had the past few years... As far as students discussing the novel, I tend to think that students from Los Angeles will understand it much better than students from another area. It is definitely a Los Angeles novel. When I read it, I was stunned by the sheer "Los Angeles-ness" of it. I tend to think that the idea of suburban life is really a Los Angeles concept. The sprawling one-story bungalows covering the entire county........ As a result, students from the area will probably have a different understanding of the novel than other students. "Parable of the Sower" strikes a chord with everyone from Los Angeles who reads it. They realize that this is their hometown, and this could happen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:00:02 GMT+100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Re: He, She, and It Comments: To: Hope Cascio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 17 Jun 97 , Hope Cascio wrote: > Anyway, about He, She, and It. I was really saddened by the > connection Piercy makes between the golem and the android, how they > are creations of man (man, not woman) and serve man, behave and feel > just like men, but are not entitled to the rights of other men. > Bringing in a comparison to Frankenstein suggests that it's not > right to treat living, feeling creations of men as if they are not > men, but the feeling I got from He, She, and It was that it was > proper to treat the golem and the android as if they were no more > than clay and metal. In the society in which they live the people, > especially the women like Shira, are often treated as pawns as well, > and this is treated as a grave injustice. Is Piercy being ironic, > and wants me to follow this train of thought, that we act as if it's > all right to treat some people without power like they are > disposable, and we should be saddened and angered at this treatment? My response comes a bit late, but I have read the book 3-4 years ago and my memory might be at fault. However, I remember the viewpoint of the book differently . Nobody has reacted to Hope's email, has nobody read that book? I recommend it. As I remember it, Piercy's point was exactly to show that beings with intelligence and consciousness (persons), be it women or androids, should be accepted as persons in their own rights and not be degraded to tools. The android is a creation of Shira's grandmother and one man (I have forgotten the names of both). The grandmother tells the story of the golem to the android. So why does she do it? The impression I've got is that she does it to make him aware that people will not accept him as a 'human being', instead they will try to use him only as a tool (here a weapon). Furthermore, at the end of the story Shira has the means at hand to recreate an android. After some reflection she desists, exactly because the new android would not be accepted as a person. The book ends there. I also noted that the creators of the android are a man and a woman, the woman being the better and more important scientist without whom the whole project could not be successful. As I remember, her motives for creating the android are 'purely' scientific or intellectual: to see if it can be done. The 'problems' the android will face, do not stop her, although she is obviously aware of them. (If I remember correctly, there are some prototypes not working properly, i.e. she accepts to create physically and mentally 'handicapped' conscious beings). I found this fact important as it is often argued that women would be different scientists than man, more responsible, etc., that man are more driven to create, even dangerous things, as they have no natural 'outlet' as women have. Well, this scientist is a grandmother ... Petra ** Petra Mayerhofer ** pm@ier.uni-stuttgart.de ** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:27:42 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather Whipple Subject: how to unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <199707021444.JAA46112@piglet.cc.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is why you need to keep the intro message when you join a list. To unsubscribe, mail a message to: listserv@listserv.uic.edu and in the body of the message type: unsubscribe feministsf *************** ******************** Heather Whipple Humanities Librarian hwhipple@script.lib.indiana.edu Swarthmore College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:39:13 -0500 Reply-To: Heather Whipple Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather Whipple Subject: list member mentioned in TV Guide In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII apologies in advance for this mostly off-topic post. The current US TV Guide has Babylon 5 on the cover, and the article mentions the upcoming UK B5 conference and its organizer, Farah Mendlesohn. (btw, season 5 of B5 will almost definitely air in early 1998 on the cable channel TNT in the US. The last I heard, unfortunately, is that TNT doesn't have plans to show it in Europe. If you have www access, all this info and more can be found on The Lurker's Guide. I don't have the URL, but you can find it with Yahoo, Hotbot, Alta Vista, etc. And in the TV Guide article.) *************** ******************** Heather Whipple Humanities Librarian hwhipple@script.lib.indiana.edu Swarthmore College ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:34:41 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Re: list member mentioned in TV Guide In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Heather Whipple wrote: > apologies in advance for this mostly off-topic post. > > The current US TV Guide has Babylon 5 on the cover, and the article > mentions the upcoming UK B5 conference and its organizer, Farah > Mendlesohn. Congratulations Ms. Mendlesohn. > (btw, season 5 of B5 will almost definitely air in early 1998 on the cable > channel TNT in the US. The last I heard, unfortunately, is that TNT > doesn't have plans to show it in Europe. If you have www access, all > this info and more can be found on The Lurker's Guide. I don't have the > URL, but you can find it with Yahoo, Hotbot, Alta Vista, etc. And in the > TV Guide article.) http://www.midwinter.com/lurker or you can try the official one http://www.babylon5.com or the fan club http://www.thestation.com Kate Bolin Babylon 5 junkie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:02:12 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: list member's story out! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don't forget, Nalo's short story, "Riding the Red," is now in stores in the anthology _Black Swan, White Raven_. (I may have reversed my birds... I don't have my copy in front of me... ) Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: list member's story out! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Thanks, Maryelizabeth. And yes, you got your birds right. This was my first major sale, so I'm facing comments from the public with fear and trepidation. -nalo On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > Don't forget, Nalo's short story, "Riding the Red," is now in stores in the > anthology _Black Swan, White Raven_. (I may have reversed my birds... I > don't have my copy in front of me... ) > > > Maryelizabeth > Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 > 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 > San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX > http://www.mystgalaxy.com > "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:18:02 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: list member's story out! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >NH: Thanks, Maryelizabeth. And yes, you got your birds right. This was >my first major sale, so I'm facing comments from the public with fear and >trepidation. > >-nalo > I'm not sure why fear, Nalo. At the slight risk of speaking out of turn, I think if the story said what you wanted it to say and somebody bought it, it's obviously a success (hopefully the editor who bought it has some modicum of good judgment). -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: list member's story out! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: :) Thank you, Sean. Deb jitters as much as anything else. And I'm very aware that I myself don't like everything I read that has made it onto the booksellers' shelves. -nalo On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: > >NH: Thanks, Maryelizabeth. And yes, you got your birds right. This was > >my first major sale, so I'm facing comments from the public with fear and > >trepidation. > > > >-nalo > > > > I'm not sure why fear, Nalo. At the slight risk of speaking out of turn, I > think if the story said what you wanted it to say and somebody bought it, > it's obviously a success (hopefully the editor who bought it has some > modicum of good judgment). > > -Sean > "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:01:36 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: list member's story out! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII And yes, Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling have good judgement; hell, they bought my story! :> -nalo "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:01:54 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Williams Subject: He She and It Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've read it more than once and feel certain He She and It is for the rights of all life forms, including those forms developed by humans. THe contrast is the medieval superstition of humans sacrificing the Prague golem, who's eventually in love with a human, versus a society that (led by the grandmother/scientist) liberates the android so his life can unfold, and he gets into this battle with his nature (designed to be a weapon) versus his nurture (again, falls in love, oh well we humans do think we're irresistable!). And I think he dies (like all the black characters or all the women can in plenty of stories!!!) but the idea is that we can move away from superstition towards accepting all life forms as equal. kate ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:44:28 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: logging off In-Reply-To: <199707021444.JAA46112@piglet.cc.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I logged them off and helped them with instructions. On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Beth Middleton wrote: > Did the person who was attempting to log off this discussion group figure > out how to do it? If they haven't managed it yet, I have instructions for > another system that might help. > > Beth > Dr. Beth Middleton > Department of Plant Biology, 411 Life Science II > Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois 62901 > 618-453-3216 FAX: 618-453-3441 > Sabbatical Phone and FAX: 618-457-6760 > bmiddleton@plant.siu.edu > Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Anybody out there? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello. Hello. Anybody there? Just checking..... Lori ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Anybody out there? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: Present and accounted for. -nalo On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Lori A. Campbell wrote: > Hello. Hello. Anybody there? Just checking..... > > > Lori > "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:24:46 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Re: Anybody out there? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Nalo Hopkinson wrote: > NH: Present and accounted for. > > -nalo > > On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Lori A. Campbell wrote: > > > Hello. Hello. Anybody there? Just checking..... > > > > > > Lori > > That makes two of us - enough for a discussion I guess. Anyone else out there? Lori ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:33:27 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Wigod Subject: Re: Anybody out there? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's just that we're all so busy running out to our local independent bookstores to buy Nalo's latest story! ;-D Laura > >On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Lori A. Campbell wrote: > >> Hello. Hello. Anybody there? Just checking..... >> >> >> Lori >> > >"He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the >stars/Were near." > -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:53:34 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Re: Anybody out there? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Laura Wigod wrote: > It's just that we're all so busy running out to our local independent > bookstores to buy Nalo's latest story! ;-D > > Laura > > What is Nalo's latest story? I'm new here. Hello Nalo and Laura - sure would like to know something about the other two members of the list (maybe there are more too?) Lori> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:29:05 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Readercon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Anybody going to Readercon in Boston this July? -nalo "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:44:09 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: Readercon? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Anybody going to Readercon in Boston this July? > >-nalo > >"He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the >stars/Were near." > -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" Nalo, Never heard of it. Please describe. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:04:33 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Readercon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: > Nalo, > Never heard of Readercon. Please describe. NH: Readercon takes place in Boston (actually, maybe in Cambridge. Can't find my con flyer in the layers of debris) every July. It's billed as a more 'readerly' con. Small, with no costumes, no filksinging, high ratio of writers to readers. I enjoyed it last year, am going back this year. My favourite image from last year was of the hotel lobby, every available flat surface occupied by someone with a book in hand, staring intently into its pages. -nalo "He walked so far/On stilts of songs, of masqueraded story, that the stars/Were near." -Kamau Brathwaite, "Jou'vert" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:21:29 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Hope Cascio Subject: Re: He, She, and It I'd like to respond to your response, Petra. Everyone jump in, now! I'm usually quiet on here because I haven't read anything you're discussing, so I run out and get it (just read Left Hand of Darkness, for instance) and then you're done with it by the time I could put in my sad little $.02. << On 17 Jun 97 , Hope Cascio wrote: > Anyway, about He, She, and It. I was really saddened by the > connection Piercy makes between the golem and the android, how they > are creations of man (man, not woman) and serve man, behave and feel > just like men, but are not entitled to the rights of other men. > Bringing in a comparison to Frankenstein suggests that it's not > right to treat living, feeling creations of men as if they are not > men, but the feeling I got from He, She, and It was that it was > proper to treat the golem and the android as if they were no more > than clay and metal. In the society in which they live the people, > especially the women like Shira, are often treated as pawns as well, > and this is treated as a grave injustice. Is Piercy being ironic, > and wants me to follow this train of thought, that we act as if it's > all right to treat some people without power like they are > disposable, and we should be saddened and angered at this treatment? My response comes a bit late, but I have read the book 3-4 years ago and my memory might be at fault. However, I remember the viewpoint of the book differently . Nobody has reacted to Hope's email, has nobody read that book? I recommend it. As I remember it, Piercy's point was exactly to show that beings with intelligence and consciousness (persons), be it women or androids, should be accepted as persons in their own rights and not be degraded to tools. The android is a creation of Shira's grandmother and one man (I have forgotten the names of both). I saw the android as more the man's creation, because it was his obsession to create. It seems like the parallel is drawn between a man's desire to imitate the feminine creation process, and usually not with full success. The grandmother tells the story of the golem to the android. So why does she do it? The impression I've got is that she does it to make him aware that people will not accept him as a 'human being', instead they will try to use him only as a tool (here a weapon). There's no clear opinion from the grandmother on the "rightness" of either the golem or, ultimately, the android's, death. The golem, once his usefulness is over, is "killed." This is considered by the rabbi to be the proper thing to do with a golem. Furthermore, at the end of the story Shira has the means at hand to recreate an android. After some reflection she desists, exactly because the new android would not be accepted as a person. The book ends there. I also noted that the creators of the android are a man and a woman, the woman being the better and more important scientist without whom the whole project could not be successful. As I remember, her motives for creating the android are 'purely' scientific or intellectual: to see if it can be done. The 'problems' the android will face, do not stop her, although she is obviously aware of them. (If I remember correctly, there are some prototypes not working properly, i.e. she accepts to create physically and mentally 'handicapped' conscious beings). I found this fact important as it is often argued that women would be different scientists than man, more responsible, etc., that man are more driven to create, even dangerous things, as they have no natural 'outlet' as women have. Well, this scientist is a grandmother ... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:08:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? I guess I'll start, since I'm silly enough to ask. I'm Kate Bolin. I'm going into my third year at Tulane University, as a Anthropology/Religious Traditions of the West major. I work at the Newcomb College Center for Research on Women as their main techie. I update the webpage, and I'll run the computer cluster (once it really gets in). I've been raised on science fiction, and have always been looking for strong female/feminist characters in science fiction. I think that's part of the reason I'm such a huge Babylon 5 addict. kate who hopes this might spark some conversation.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 17:01:12 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? > Okay, I'll bite: Sean Johnston, writer and proponent of feminist, post-feminist, humanist and hope-oriented SF. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 00:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: DAVID CHRISTENSON Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: David Christenson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- >I'm beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Count me among the "random people": David Christenson, hunter of rare and out-of-print books, journalist for the antiques trade, cat wrangler. Also, renewing my love of SF, and enamored of fandom - where people who are perpetually outside can finally feel at home. -- David Christenson - ldqt79a@prodigy.com "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." -Isaac Asimov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:35:36 -0700 Reply-To: peggyh@earthlink.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Peggy Hamilton Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've been lurking so far, but I might as well take this opportunity to introduce myself. I guess I'd have to class myself as a random person, or an et cetera. I do teach college, but I'm not a professor. I teach English part-time at a community college. I teach mostly composition, but I'm working with one of the full time intructors to develop a science fiction course. I also teach Scottish Country Dancing, though I'm not sure what that has to do with SF. I am a writer. I've sold a couple of short stories, to very tiny magazines, and I just signed with Commonwealth Publications in Canada to publish my first novel. I grew up reading SF. My father started giving me science fiction books as soon as I could read, and I used to spend my summers buried in his collection of back issues of Analog. His favorite authors were Heinlein and Asimov, and I partially agree. I like most of Heinlein's work, but but found most of his last stuff disappointing, and I like Asimov's short stories, but have never been able to get into any of his novels (yes, I've read the Foundation trilogy). I also like McCaffery's dragon and shell-people, but I'm not crazy about the Raven series, and think the best thing about the Dinosaur Planet books was that in caused Elizabeth Moon to write Sassinak. I also like Moon, and most of Melissa Scott's work. Peggy Hamilton who is spending too much of her summer with student papers(summer school) and not enough with the good stuff ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 00:39:27 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Marie Groppi Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Kate Bolin wrote: > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Well, while we're introducing ourselves... I'm a college student, co-chair of the Harvard-Radcliffe Science Fiction Association, and a publishing assistant at Circlet Press (publishers of erotic science fiction and fantasy). I've been known to say that science fiction is one of the few true loves of my life, and I do definitely consider myself a feminist, and I was very happy to run across this mailing list in the first place. Which reminds me--I'm doing some book reviews for the science fiction association's magazine, and I need a third (or fourth, depending on whetherI decide there's a conflict of interest involved in reviewing one of Circlet's new releases) book to review. It needs to be something either newly released or currently notable for some reason--the ones I currently have are _Distress_ by Greg Egan (if I can find the damn thing), _The Drag Queen of Elfland_ by Lawrence Schimel, and _Slow River_ by Nicola Griffith (I know it's not new, but the Nebula gives me a good excuse). Our editor wants one more review, and I'd like to do another distinctly feminist work. Suggestions? -- Susan groppi@hcs.harvard.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i found god in myself and i loved her i loved her fiercely -- n.shange ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 00:30:32 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Mundahl Subject: Any Sheri Tepper fans out there I have just finished "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" It was incredible! Does anyone know how to get in touch with the author? I believe that her books are so insighful. They have helped me focus on what is important in this liminal age when we are trying to overcome the shackles of patriarchal bondage. Anyone care to discuss the book? Please contact me at isisbear@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: sidwats@cyberstate.infi.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sidney Watson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another lurker here. Sid Watson, who just defended her dissertation a week ago, and looks forward to having time to read SF again. I've enjoyed compiling a reading wish list from all the wonderful suggestions on this list. I'll be signing off temporarily for a while next month as I move to Louisiana, but I'll be back. And maybe I'll even have time to talk, not just to lurk! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marilyn Nulman Subject: Re: So who's on this list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello. I'm a writer, a storyteller and a bookbinder. I also work a few hours a week in the children's room at my local library. My favorite sf writers? Oh, gosh. Sheri S. Tepper. Barbara Hambly. David Eddings, Patricia McKillip, Patricia Wrede, Orson Scott Card, Elizabeth Moon, Tamara Pierce, Robin McKinley, Ursula K. Leguin, Madeline L'Engle, Meredith Pierce, Lynn Flewelling and so many more. As you may surmise, I lean toward fantasy. I'm also interested in sf for kids, like the Alana series. I've just started writing a fantasy I've been imagining for more years than I'd like to count. Had large parts of the story clear in my mind, but no idea how to connect them. Then, about a month ago it came to me. What a great feeling! So I'm writing and reading and writing. I hope this list will give me good leads on books. I'm about to order Parable of the Sower--I'd heard great things about the author but never read her--I also just got a copy of Gibbon's Decline and Fall from the library. It looks fascinating. Enough for now. Regards, Marilyn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 11:13:53 -0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Antonio Marcos da Silva Pereira Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi! 1) the "random people" category shall do in my case: Antonio Marcos Pereira, 26, organizational psychologist by training and wannabe philosopher (i'm about to enroll formally a graduate program on philosophy, where i'll probably work with something concerning contemporary american philosophy). got interested in sf far back, first reading verne, wells, bradbury. in my late teens i discovered lem and delany, and they remain my favorites ever since. during the last year i've been working on a web site about lem -- a work that never ends. i plan web sites for delany and tiptree in the far future. got interested in feminism about two years ago, after having read haraway's "simians etc". that got me hooked on this. also, my readings of rorty tend to make me a fellow feminist by sheer solidarity if for nothing else. Antonio Marcos Pereira ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:28:02 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicole Youngman Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Hello all-- Guess I'll de-lurk for a quick intro as well. I'm a perpetual grad student--one MA in Women's Studies and working on another in sociology. I'm currently working part-time in a bookstore where I'm more or less the person entrusted with the SF section. ;-) > Our editor wants one more review, and I'd like to do another > distinctly feminist work. Suggestions? > How about Starhawk's new one, _Walking to Mercury_? I just finished it a couple of weeks ago. It's a prequel to _The Fifth Sacred Thing_. I liked the first one better--_Mercury_ has times where she seemed to say "Okay, insert feminist diatribe here," (Not that I don't totally agree with them, however ;-)) but it's definately a worthwhile read. Nicole ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:40:26 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kate enquired. I guess I'm in the "random folk" category. Bookseller. Mom of two. Still lookin' for that perfect job where I get paid to do nothing but read and share my opinions. :) I'm a fairly catholic reader, (little "c"!) with an emphasis on Speculative Fiction and mystery. Mostly fiction, and people stories. Non-fiction tends towards biographies of women of the American West. Ciao, Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: Readercon? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >NH: Readercon takes place in Boston (actually, maybe in Cambridge. Can't >find my con flyer in the layers of debris) every July. It's billed as a >more 'readerly' con. Small, with no costumes, no filksinging, high ratio >of writers to readers. I enjoyed it last year, am going back this year. >My favourite image from last year was of the hotel lobby, every available >flat surface occupied by someone with a book in hand, staring intently >into its pages. > >-nalo This screen should now be perceived as turning green with envy. How fun! Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:40:21 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: Any Sheri Tepper fans out there? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nope, not on this list. Actually a number of us enjoy Tepper, and discuss her often. Because _Gibbon's_ is so new in pb, and probably not everyone read it a year and a half ago like I did , we might take a discussion of it off list or be careful to mark for SPOILERS. Personally, I'm curious what people thought about the ending... see my point? Tepper should be reachable by sending mail thru Avon or Ballantine. She lives on a ranch in NM, which I believe is also set up as a semi-B&B, a la Shirley McClintock. Me eagerly awaiting _Here's to the Newly Deads_ by "B.J. Oliphant." I hate being caught up! Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Hope Cascio Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In a message dated 97-07-05 02:11:36 EDT, you write: << I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? >> I'm all of the above, except professor, I guess! I just graduated in May with a Bachelors in English, and in my last semester I took two women's studies courses-- what an eye opener! One of my profs (who's on the list, BTW) told us about this list. I've loved science fiction since (and this is embarassing to me now!) my best friend in seventh grade turned me on to... Piers Anthony. I read all of the Apprentice Adept books that were out at the time, found Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine (to which I still subscribe and devour every month), and through that magazine, slowly, I found women writers that I began to actively seek out. The brand of sf that I like best isn't necessarily "hard" or "soft" (we had this discussion, I know) but is about the human condition. SF, to me, is an exploration of what makes us human, even when our surroundings, culture, physiology, etc. is vastly different. I'm also a mom... I have a son who'll be four in August. I'm divorced, a lesbian, and a computer geek. I work as a technical writer (althought at my company they call us "knowledge transfer developers"...reminds me of "sanitation engineer" for trash collector) and in my spare time read SF, gay/lesbian and feminist non-fiction, and write poetry, design websites, and cook. Hope Cascio ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:26:52 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Valerie Renwick-Porter Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Comments: cc: mccune@Twinoaks.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Everyone.... My name is Valerie and I've been on this list for a month or two. I'm 29 and I live at Twin Oaks Community in Virginia, which is an egalitarian, income-sharing, non-violent intentional community of 100 people--the closest thing to a (mixed-gender) feminist utopia that I've found in my travels thus far. My primary work here is as a networker in the communities movement (organizing conferences, developing outreach programs, etc) and I also work on our Forestry crew, keeping our 450 acres of woods healthy while simultaneously providing fuel to heat our buildings. I was steeped in feminism and alternative culture during college, and I've always been a reader, so it feels natural that I'd be drawn to the subjects raised on this list. Continuing to enjoy this dialogue... Valerie ============================================ Valerie Renwick-Porter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:50:13 +0100 Reply-To: bernip@ix.netcom.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Berni Phillips Organization: The Huntingdon Library Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kate Bolin wrote: > > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Well, since you asked.... I think I fit into your "random people" category. I have read fantasy and science fiction avidly since childhood. All the women in my family have always worked (farmers on my father's side and store keepers on my mother's; her mother was an early telephone operator before she married my grandfather), so feminism comes as a sort of birthright to me. I've called myself one since I first heard the word in college (fall of 1973). I have a degree in music and work as a technician in the semiconductor industry. Berni Phillips ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:05:48 +0100 Reply-To: bernip@ix.netcom.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Berni Phillips Organization: The Huntingdon Library Subject: Re: Any Sheri Tepper fans out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Mundahl wrote: > > I have just finished "Gibbon's Decline and Fall" It was incredible! Does > anyone know how to get in touch with the author? I believe that her books > are so insighful. They have helped me focus on what is important in this > liminal age when we are trying to overcome the shackles of patriarchal > bondage. Anyone care to discuss the book? Please contact me at > isisbear@aol.com. I am a Tepper fan as well. I think you'd probably have to write her publisher (info should be on the copyright page) to contact her. I haven't read her newest (_The Family Tree_ or something similar to that), but I thought that _Gibbon's Decline and Fall_ was the best book she'd written in years. I admire Tepper tremendously but I think she also has some serious flaws as a writer. One of these is that she gets so carried away with her politics that she tends beat the reader over the head with them. Even though I generally agree with her message, the heavy-handedness makes me wince. I thought that she did a fine job of *not* doing that in Gibbon's. (Did you read _Shadow's End_? All the female characters were good and all but one of the men were bad--and the one good man was pretty much an honorary woman.) Her politics were there, but they were deftly woven and crucial to the story. (Also, while her passion and her politics is one of her greatest faults, it is also one of her greatest strengths and what keeps me coming back to her. She cares passionately about what she's writing. You know she's not just tossing it off.) Her other bad fault (as I see it, of course) is that she has a problem ending her novels. She tends to rush the ending and throw in all sorts of things. She does this particularly in _Beauty_, with her rant on horror writers, and _A Plague of Angels_, which had some really interesting concepts in it otherwise, such as the archetypal village. Still, if she were perfect, she would be much less interesting to discuss. Berni Phillips ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:14:03 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Comments: To: Peggy Hamilton In-Reply-To: <33BDCEE1.7F46@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Congrats on the novel, Peggy! Do you live in Canada? Where? Me, I'm Nalo Hopkinson, Toronto resident by way of Guyana, Trinidad and Jamaica, where I was born. Dad was an actor/writer, mum a library tech. Grew up surrounded by books, started reading sf -- in its absolutely broadest sense -- as a kid in the Caribbean. Degree in French and Russian, am currently an sf writer, ex-aerobics instructor, work part-time as a Grants Officer for Toronto Arts Council. Am also a judge for next year's Tiptree Awards. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:19:35 -0400 Reply-To: Nalo Hopkinson Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: RFC822 error: SENDER field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Review suggestions to Susan Marie Groppi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'd suggest _Black Wine_ by Canadian Candas Jane Dorsey. It just won the Crawford Award. Also _An Open Weave_ by devorah major. The latter probably wouldn't have made it onto sf bookshelves because it's being marketed as a "Black" title. It's a magic realist novel, and I enjoyed it. It also won an award from the African-American Caucus (I think it's called) of the American Library Association. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:24:23 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Readercon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII So, if anyone does make it to this Readercon, I'm giving a reading on the Friday at 8:00 p.m. from a novel I'm shopping around. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:15:39 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: MARINA YERESHENKO Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi! I'm Marina Yereshenko. I guess I am one of "random people" because my major is computer science. I was a bookworm while growing up, though, and I loved science fiction, especially Ray Bradbery. I did not have a lot of time to read when I came to US three years ago, so now I am kind of catching up. By the way, I was unable to find a book of almost any author discussed here (except Delany) neither in libraries, nor in bookstores here in Oklahoma. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where I can find them without driving to another state (for example, I'd really like to read any of books by Elizabeth Vonerberg). I found out about this list from a friend who knew about my interest in feminism and science fiction. I consider myself a feminist, despite the fact that I grew up in a very traditional society where it is almost a curse word. I became even more interested in feminism after I got kicked out from the University of Oklahoma and almost deported for trying to file a sexual harassment lawsuit. That was very much like science fiction by itself. Anyway, I enjoy reading dicussions on this list, even though I do not participate a lot. It's nice to hear from people who think in a similar way as you do. Makes you feel less of a freak (just kidding). :) Marina ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:14:22 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Congrats on the novel, Peggy! Do you live in Canada? Where? Me, I'm >Nalo Hopkinson, Toronto resident by way of Guyana, Trinidad and Jamaica, >where I was born. Dad was an actor/writer, mum a library tech. Grew up >surrounded by books, started reading sf -- in its absolutely broadest >sense -- as a kid in the Caribbean. Degree in French and Russian, am >currently an sf writer, ex-aerobics instructor, work part-time as a Grants >Officer for Toronto Arts Council. Am also a judge for next year's >Tiptree Awards. > >-nalo > > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." > -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, > "Nature's Pictures," 1656 Nalo, An SF judge? Good gig. How d'ya swing it? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:56:33 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Marina, Is the U at Stillwater or Norman? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:18:56 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Penelope Gibbs Organization: UGA College of Vet. Med Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Hello to everyone. I have most definitely been a lurker for the past few months since I joined the list, but NOT because I am a normally quiet person, but because I have prelims in August, a meeting in July, and an otherwise totally overwhelming schedule until the end of August. I look forward to joining in soon after. However, I will take this opportunity to introduce myself. I am a Research Coordinator at the University of Georgia's College of Veterinary Medicine, although the title is deceiving. I, as part of my job requirement, teach freshman veterinary students bacteriology, including some lectures and the 15 week laboratory portion of the course. I have a Master's in Medical Microbiology and have a couple years before I am finished with my PhD in the same subject. Research is okay, but I absolutely love teaching. I am a lesbian, a feminist, and a scientist. I love animals (and people). My life-partner and I have three dogs and three cats, all rescues. I have considered myself a feminist since the bra-burning "women's libbers" of the sixties (I was born in 1959). I remember being a JFK supporter and I remember his assasination. Unfortunately, growing up in South and Middle Georgia does not leave a young, politically active lesbian at the age of seven many role models. At 18, I ALMOST married a man that was extraordinarily sexist and potentially violent. I just didn't get it at the time. Since then, however, I finally got it! :-> I discovered reading in the first grade with Dr. Seuss (sp?). I began with Asimov at the age of nine, when I read the book _The Runaway Robot_. If I remeber correctly, the robot protagonist was genderless. Regardless, I enjoyed the book so much, I started reading other Asimov. Later I discovered _The Lord of the Rings_Trilogy. Other fantasy I enjoyed as a youngster included _Watership Down_ and lots of stories about cats. As a teenager I never really fit in, and I often spent lunches at the library. If there was a class I wanted to cut, I usually spent it in the library as well. I read many books, but the ones I remember were _Brave New World_ , _Walden Pond_, and some Heinlein (who I now find quite sexist), Ray Bradbury, George Orwell, Lewis Carroll, and more Asimov. I also discovered Biology during that time, which ultimately led me to my present career. I found this list while browsing the "Xena" web page, and I have thoroughly enjoyed lurking and reading. I have saved some messages for future replies...after prelims. I am a scientist first and a writer second...I apologize for any spelling errors!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:07:47 +0930 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Brigid Venables." <9309629n@MAGPIE.MAGILL.UNISA.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Comments: To: DAVID CHRISTENSON In-Reply-To: <199707050400.AAA129652@mime3.prodigy.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, DAVID CHRISTENSON wrote: > -- [ From: David Christenson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > > >I'm beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > > >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random > people? > > >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? > I am currently studying to be a Librarian, but bring to this listserv a love of all things scinece fiction: I have had a love-hate relationship with a variety of feminist philosophies since I was 18: I also live with a 12-year-old sister who thinks feminism is, like, totally for geeks, so I seek new ways tohelp her feel empowered. A grab bag of stuff, don't you think? Brigid Venables. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Piers Anthony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hope wrote in part: > I've loved science fiction since (and this is embarassing >to me now!) my best friend in seventh grade turned me on to... >Piers Anthony. I read all of the Apprentice Adept books that were out at the >time, found Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine (to which I still >subscribe and devour every month), and through that magazine, slowly, I found >women writers that I began to actively seek out. The brand of sf that I like >best isn't necessarily "hard" or "soft" (we had this discussion, I know) but >is about the human condition. SF, to me, is an exploration of what makes us >human, even when our surroundings, culture, physiology, etc. is vastly >different. a) I had been reading SF for a while when I was introduced to Anthony in the early 80's, but actully, I think a lot of readers of our generation probably tried him then. And at least that was when he was writing reasonably well. b) Thanks for talking about the kind of SF that I like much more articulately than I could! Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 00:43:22 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lisa Subject: Re: Parable of the Sower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I just wanted to add my $.02. I'm from Canada and although the story is set in L.A. I think that people from many areas urban and rural are capable of understanding and fully comprehending the book. One of the things that I found interesting after reading the book was when I traveled to different places imagining which stage they were in and how long it could take them to reach the state that L.A. had reached in the book. Lisa ---------- > From: Kate Bolin > To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: Parable of the Sower > Date: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 8:00 AM > > On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kate Williams wrote: > > > The U of Toledo is considering Parable as the book every freshman this fall > > reads and gets to discuss with one or another faculty -- its a new program > > they are considering. Part of it would be to invite Butler to visit too. > > Ideas welcome. > > > Wow......I admit to being insanely jealous. > > As far as I remember, Butler's a bit of a hermit. The only reason > we got her to visit our high school was because we were in Carson, CA, and > one of the teachers could pick her up from Pasadena, CA, and she could get > a ride with him. > > Here at Tulane University, we're hoping to get Butler for the Zale > Writer-in-Residence program. It would be a big shift from what we've had > the past few years... > > As far as students discussing the novel, I tend to think that > students from Los Angeles will understand it much better than students > from another area. It is definitely a Los Angeles novel. When I read it, > I was stunned by the sheer "Los Angeles-ness" of it. I tend to think that > the idea of suburban life is really a Los Angeles concept. The sprawling > one-story bungalows covering the entire county........ > As a result, students from the area will probably have a different > understanding of the novel than other students. "Parable of the Sower" > strikes a chord with everyone from Los Angeles who reads it. They realize > that this is their hometown, and this could happen. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:35:27 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: Nalo says: > >Officer for Toronto Arts Council. Am also a judge for next year's > >Tiptree Awards. Sean responds: > Nalo, > An SF judge? Good gig. How d'ya swing it? NH: Volunteer gig, let me hasten to point out. Though I do get books I wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford. I am a graduate of Clarion '95. Both Pat Murphy and Karen Joy Fowler (founding mothers of the Tiptree Award) were writers-in-residence that year. We kept in touch after Clarion, so I guess they have a sense of what/how I read, the fact that I'm a feminist. Don't know if the fact that I facilitate literary juries as part of my day job was part of their decision. They asked me to be a Tiptree judge this year, said they thought I'd be good at it. I'm not sure, but I think I'm the neophyte on the team, with the fewest publication credits. Other jurors are Elizabeth Hand, Terry Garey, James Patrick Kelly and J. A. Kaufman. And as I've said before on this list, I'd really appreciate being pointed in the direction of any 1996 or 1997 speculative fiction, long or short, which "explores or expands our notions of gender and gender roles." -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:08:44 -0400 Reply-To: Nalo Hopkinson Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: RFC822 error: SENDER field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Master i Margarita In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu, 26 Jun 1997, MARINA YERESHENKO wrote: > Nalo, thanks for response._Master and Margarita_ was my favorite book as a > teenager. It's about Satan visiting Moscow in early 30's, where official > policy was atheism, so no one believes in God or Satan altogether. He causes > quite a bit of trouble, but authorities either try to ignore him, or explain > everything as magic tricks. > > not vice versa. The cat you remembered was part of Satan's suite, he was > swinging on a chandeliere while shooting at KGB agents who came to arrest > the whole crowd. NH: See now, I knew I remembered a cat with a pistol swinging on a chandelier! That scene was uproarious fun. > Zamiatin's _We_ is about an anti-utopical future society, where > everything is strictly regulated, so even when people want to have sex, they > need to get a special coupon for that. and >_We_ is often compared with _The Great New World_. NH: _Brave New World?_ That's one I have still to read. I was told that _We_ was the inspiration for H. G. Wells's _1984._ -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:29:53 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: joanna goltzman Subject: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" While we are introducing ourselves . . . I am Joanna Goltzman, a graduate student studying English at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. I am writing my thesis on feminist SF and this list has helped me a lot. I began my research having read a few feminist SF novels already (Ursula K. Le Guin's _Left Hand of Darkness_, Octavia Butler's _Kindred_, Margaret Atwood's _The Handmaid's Tale_, Suzette Haden Elgin's _Native Tongue_) and have found a lot more books to read from discussions on this list. Marina Yereshenko wrote: By the way, I was unable to find a book of almost any author discussed here (except Delany) neither in libraries, nor in bookstores here in Oklahoma. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where I can find them without driving to another state (for example, I'd really like to read any of books by Elizabeth Vonarberg). Finding books has been a bit of a problem for me, too. I recently finished Elisabeth Vonarberg's _The Maerlande Chronicles_ (also published in English as _In the Mothers' Land_). I had to order it from a Canadian distributer because it is out of print in the United States. (H.B. Finn & Co. in Bolton, Ontario 905-951-6600.) Another option is amazon.com, an internet bookstore (address can be found using Yahoo or another search engine). Amazon lists _The Maerland Chronicles_ as available, but says the book takes 4 to 6 weeks to get IF amazon can find it somewhere. H.B. Finn sent me the book in a week. One thing I really liked about _The Maerlande Chronicles_ is that it is about a matriarchal society with problems. The society's drawbacks make it believable and more interesting, to me, at least, than a "perfect" society (utopia). Anyone know of more imperfect matriarchal societies I could read about? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:15:42 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg In-Reply-To: <199707061729.MAA12865@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone know of more imperfect matriarchal societies I could read >about? Joanna, This is stretching, but I'd check out S.M. Charnas' _Scorched Supper on New Niger_ in _The Year's Best Science Fiction_, 13th edition, edited by Gardner Dozois. There's a lot of other good stuff in there (incl. 2 LeGuin stories), so it's worth the $17.95 US ($25.99 Can.) -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:15:25 +0100 Reply-To: bernip@ix.netcom.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Berni Phillips Organization: The Huntingdon Library Subject: Tiptree Judge (Was Re: So who is on this list?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nalo Hopkinson wrote: > NH: Volunteer gig, let me hasten to point out. Though I do get books I > wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford. I am a graduate of Clarion > '95. Both Pat Murphy and Karen Joy Fowler (founding mothers of the > Tiptree Award) were writers-in-residence that year. We kept in touch > after Clarion, so I guess they have a sense of what/how I read, the fact > that I'm a feminist. Don't know if the fact that I facilitate literary > juries as part of my day job was part of their decision. They asked me to > be a Tiptree judge this year, said they thought I'd be good at it. I'm > not sure, but I think I'm the neophyte on the team, with the fewest > publication credits. Other jurors are Elizabeth Hand, Terry Garey, James > Patrick Kelly and J. A. Kaufman. And as I've said before on this list, > I'd really appreciate being pointed in the direction of any 1996 or 1997 > speculative fiction, long or short, which "explores or expands our > notions of gender and gender roles." > Nalo, congratulations and I wish you strength! I'm a friend of Janet Lafler, chair of this past year's committee, and Debbie Notkin, another former Tiptree judge, and from what they've said, I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into this. It sounds like it pretty much takes over your life for the year, all the reading that you have to do. This looks like a really good committee, though. I know Terry Garey and Jerry Kaufman (the J.A.), and I know they're both dedicated to excellence and will do their best. I also have great respect for Elizabeth Hand, having read most of her work and heard her speak last year at the Worldcon. I'm less familiar with Patrick Kelly, but I know I've ready some of his short stories. You Tiptree judges are really unsung heroes with all the work that goes into selecting the winner(s). Best wishes! Berni Phillips ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:37:46 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Valerie Renwick-Porter wrote: > Hi Everyone.... > > My name is Valerie and I've been on this list for a month or two. > I'm 29 and I live at Twin Oaks Community in Virginia, which is an > egalitarian, income-sharing, non-violent intentional community of 100 > people--the closest thing to a (mixed-gender) feminist utopia that > I've found in my travels thus far. > I would be very interested in hearing about your community that you live in. For some time I have had the idea in my head that someday I would really like to live in a women's community (if such a thing exists). Not sure any community would allow me with all my dogs though (25), or who would want me with my dog-rescue efforts. Still would be interested to hear about it though. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:50:21 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Valerie Renwick-Porter wrote: > >> Hi Everyone.... >> >> My name is Valerie and I've been on this list for a month or two. >> I'm 29 and I live at Twin Oaks Community in Virginia, which is an >> egalitarian, income-sharing, non-violent intentional community of 100 >> people--the closest thing to a (mixed-gender) feminist utopia that >> I've found in my travels thus far. >> Valerie, Is this like a commune? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:53:57 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" By the by, anybody know about some communes out Seattle way, preferably egalitarian/feminist, like Valerie's Twin Oaks Community in VA? Are there any communes left around there? -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:48:52 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Marie Groppi Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Brigid Venables. wrote: > I am currently studying to be a Librarian, but bring to this listserv a > love of all things scinece fiction: I have had a love-hate relationship > with a variety of feminist philosophies since I was 18: Mmmm. Right. I'm with you on that, the love-hate relationship. I have my own set of beliefs that I call "feminism", and I'm proud to call myself a feminist, but what I mean by feminist is not always what other people mean by feminist. I joined a radical-action feminist group on campus here, and it was such a disappointing experience, to see that the thing we thought was common to us all was really so different--different enough to be divisive, really. So, I'm very curious about what feminism means to people here, and where it comes from in your life, where it takes you. But I'm not sure if it's appropriate, being only half-relevant to the list. -- Susan groppi@hcs.harvard.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i found god in myself and i loved her i loved her fiercely -- n.shange ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:21:25 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bronwen Turner Organization: NCHECR Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Hi, I'm another lurker who fits into the 'randon people' category. I also grew up reading lots of traditional SF but finding Huxley's *Island* and Piercy's *Women on the Edge of Time* provoked my interest in utopian fiction. SInce then I have gobbled up as much feminist SF as I have been able to find. I finally had the opporunity to combine this passion with study a couple of years ago when I did a Social Utopias course and the reading list for the course has kept me busy until quite recently. I'm eager to add to my reading list from the many suggestions here although I'm having trouble finding many of the novels. My friends and colleagues often smile at me in that very patronising way when I carry on about the importance of utopian fiction as a tool which allows me to create visions and dreams about the genderless society in which I would like to live, but then I'm sure you've all had the same experience. I was thrilled to find this list a couple on months ago and I eagerly rush to work in the morning to read my overnight email with my first ... and second cup of coffee. I'm a medical administrator at a university in Sydney, Australia and in addition to feminist SF, I love trashy SF films and TV shows; and film and politcal biographies. My favouriteTV character is Ro Laren from STNG (don't you just love those Bajorans). Nice to meet you all. Bronwen I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:00:56 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: DAVID CHRISTENSON Subject: Re: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- [ From: David Christenson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- As for finding Vonarburg's work or other out of print books, I suggest searching the www sites of Bibliofind or Interloc, the two largest Net databases for used and rare books. I think you can post "wants" there, too. Amazon Books is primarily a new-book dealer, and gets its out-of-print stuff the way any search service does - via used-book dealers. You're better off eliminating the middleperson and going to the above-mentioned databases. -- David Christenson - ldqt79a@prodigy.com "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." -Isaac Asimov ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Janice E. Dawley" Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:08 PM 7/4/97 -0500, Kate Bolin wrote: >I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Well... I guess I would fall squarely in the "computer geek" camp. Though when I graduated from college seven years ago I was decidedly NOT a computer geek. My degree was in Anthropology, with a minor in English. Rather than go on to grad school, I decided to get a job -- my BA did not help much, especially in 1990 at the beginning of a recession. But, several years later, I work as a computer tech support person. I've been reading science fiction for as long as I remember, though I didn't count myself as a fan of the genre itself until college. I have to admit that I was obsessed with Anne McCaffrey's Pern books when I was in my teens; some time during high school that fascination waned. Though I wasn't aware of the term "feminist science fiction" until a few years ago, I have always been frustrated by books that portray women in a sexist way (although it took me a while to see how McCaffrey limited women in her own work). I remember reading _Podkayne of Mars_ when I was 15 or so and thinking "no girl I know would act (or think) that way!" Le Guin has been a favorite writer of mine for several years. I've also picked up quite a few books in response to mentions on Usenet and at the couple of conventions I've been to. I'm currently reading _Woman on the Edge of Time_, which is quite good so far. I recently finished _A Door Into Ocean_, which was somewhat interesting, though the bad guys were cut out of cardboard, and the 3rd _Native Tongue_ book, which was patently absurd and very bad. Next on my list is the rest of Joanna Russ' _Extraordinary People_ ("Souls" was great!) and her novel _And Chaos Died_. -- Janice ----- Janice E. Dawley.....Burlington, VT http://homepages.together.net/~jdawley/jedhome.htm Listening to: Loop Guru, Duniya; Shonen Knife, Brand New Knife "...the public and the private worlds are inseparably connected; the tyrannies and servilities of the one are the tyrannies and servilities of the other." Virginia Woolf, Three Guineas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" So, I'm very curious about what feminism means to people here, and where it comes from in your life, where it takes you. But I'm not sure if it's appropriate, being only half-relevant to the list. Susan, For me, feminism is, "the principle that women should have political, economic, and social rights equal to those of men" (New World Dictionary of the American Language, Second Edition). As for where it comes from: I'm a very bottom-line person and this is the bottom line for me. It was like, "Duhhh. Taht's just common sense--or should be." Where's it take me? In my SF, it (among other things) had led me to portray women as equal to men in the ways described above. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:45:12 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <6E9D4211C2@nchecr.unsw.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I'm a medical administrator at a university in Sydney, Australia and >in addition to feminist SF, I love trashy SF films and TV shows; and >film and politcal biographies. My favouriteTV character is Ro >Laren from STNG (don't you just love those Bajorans). > >Nice to meet you all. > >Bronwen > > > Bronwen, Myself, I like Rom's wife (what's her name again?). She's strong, but in such an approachable way, like you could actually hang out with her, have food fights, that sort of thing and still know she's got your back when toe comes to toe. Major Kira's pretty cool, even more so than Dax. On the Voyager show, I'm into the half-Klingon woman played by Roxann Biggs-Dawson, whose character name I also don't remember. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:47:13 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Marie Groppi Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970706233454.0073e244@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Janice E. Dawley wrote: > I'm currently reading _Woman on the Edge of Time_, which is > quite good so far. It's one of the books I'm evangelical about, I suppose--I keep forcibly lending my copy to people, for a variety of reasons. Discussions of mental health care, sexual equality, polyamory, interpersonal conflict... they all sooner or later come to a point where I say "you really need to read this book..." > I recently finished _A Door Into Ocean_, which was > somewhat interesting, though the bad guys were cut out of cardboard, and > the 3rd _Native Tongue_ book, which was patently absurd and very bad. I picked up that whole trilogy in a used bookstore, because they were inexpensive and looked interesting (and I'd just handed in two very large term papers and was treating myself), and I read through all three books in one weekend, but by the time I got to the end of the trilogy, I was reading just for the sake of finishing what I'd started. They started out interestingly enough but just degenerated... and I found something vaguely offensive in the portrayal of the inter-gender relations. The idea that men and women just can't, literally and unequivocally and universally -can't- understand each other. -- Susan groppi@hcs.harvard.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i found god in myself and i loved her i loved her fiercely -- n.shange ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:46:30 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg In-Reply-To: <199707061729.MAA12865@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, joanna goltzman wrote: [snip] > > One thing I really liked about _The Maerlande Chronicles_ is that it is > about a matriarchal society with problems. The society's drawbacks make it > believable and more interesting, to me, at least, than a "perfect" society > (utopia). Anyone know of more imperfect matriarchal societies I could read > about? > Well, I personally loved _Glory Season_ by David Brin. It is about a matriarchial society that was bio-engineered to be so. Some feminists have critisized it / disliked it, (perhaps it was a little too harsh on the poor matriarchy (especially the anti-male parts). Also, the author was apparently an obnoxious jerk about not winning the Tiptree award (he mentioned a "feminist cabal") So, read it with a grain of salt. However, I think that there is alot to be gotten from it. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:56:16 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amanda Elliot Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all I'm also 'de-lurking' I only found out about this list a few weeks ago so I guess I'm a newbie too. I'm a postgrad student (Sociology) at the Uni of New SOuth Wales (Sydney, Australia) and have been reading SF and fantasy since I was a kid. I think my mum was petrified I would start to read those teenage romance novels, and quickly went on the offensive with Tolkien & Susan Cooper. I have never looked back! My tastes are fairly eclectic and while I have read some of the classic SF/ utopian books (aswell as being a rampant star trek fan), its mainly fantasy that I'm into and can never find enough good feminist books or even strong women characters to read about. I'm in the final year of my doctoral thesis so I never really find the time to read as much as I'd like to anyway. I'm also involved in an organisation called The Women's Library, a volunteer run, non-funded feminist library (with a collection of over 12000 books that have all been donated). It has a reasonable collection of SF/fantasy books, that I'm slowly working my way through. I'm really enjoying the discussions Cheers Mandy Amanda Elliot Social Policy Research Centre University of New South Wales Kensington, NSW 2052 ph: 385 3845 fax: 385 1049 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:27:57 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sean Johnston Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <199707070556.PAA13386@sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi all >I'm also 'de-lurking' I only found out about this list a few weeks ago so I >guess I'm a newbie too. I'm a postgrad student (Sociology) at the Uni of >New SOuth Wales (Sydney, Australia) and have been reading SF and fantasy >since I was a kid. I think my mum was petrified I would start to read those >teenage romance novels, and quickly went on the offensive with Tolkien & >Susan Cooper. I have never looked back! My tastes are fairly eclectic and >while I have read some of the classic SF/ utopian books (aswell as being a >rampant star trek fan), its mainly fantasy that I'm into and can never find >enough good feminist books or even strong women characters to read about. >I'm in the final year of my doctoral thesis so I never really find the time >to read as much as I'd like to anyway. >I'm also involved in an organisation called The Women's Library, a volunteer >run, non-funded feminist library (with a collection of over 12000 books that >have all been donated). It has a reasonable collection of SF/fantasy books, >that I'm slowly working my way through. > >I'm really enjoying the discussions > >Cheers >Mandy >Amanda Elliot >Social Policy Research Centre >University of New South Wales >Kensington, NSW >2052 >ph: 385 3845 >fax: 385 1049 Mandy, If you haven't any Butler or LeGuin stuff, I'd suggest jumping on them the moment they come in. Good stuff. I've heard Nicola Griffith's pretty good, too (Hi, Nicola!). Then again, maybe I'm telling you stuff you already know. -Sean ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:36:24 +0930 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Brigid Venables." <9309629n@MAGPIE.MAGILL.UNISA.EDU.AU> Subject: Feminism to me, is... Comments: To: Sean Johnston In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For me (another one of the 'bottom line' club members, I think), feminism has assumed a wide variety of meanings, from 'equality to all', to a brief phase where I genuinely believed women were superior to men (very embarrassing) to ... how can I put it ... the ability to manufacture a genuinely ambivalent, hybrid narrative - that's really quite awkwardly put, and I'm not sure how to clarify it: I'm fascinated by the 'science fiction' narratives of Margaret Cavendish - not that you'd call this feminist science fiction (but it is science fiction, right?)(right???). As a librarian I like to locate things in neat categories - never easy, rarely possible, but we dream ... we dream! In my writing, I use my understanding of feminist philosophy to construct unusual gender identities - not always flattering to either women or men, but rarely boring - at least, not to me. Feminism has opened up a world of possibilites (once I stopped viewing it as a closed philosophy) - I hope others share my optimism! On another subject altogether, I have never seen Babylon 5: I live in Australia and, while it has been on our television, it turned up near midnight, and seemed to vanish as quickly as it appeared. (Unlike XENA - God bless that warrior princess, we just can't get enough of her down under ). Is it worthwhile contacting buddies in the U.K toi get tapes sent over? Regards- Brigid Venables. On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Sean Johnston wrote: > So, I'm very curious about what feminism means to people here, and where > it comes from in your life, where it takes you. But I'm not sure if it's > appropriate, being only half-relevant to the list. > > > Susan, > For me, feminism is, "the principle that women should have > political, economic, and social rights equal to those of men" (New World > Dictionary of the American Language, Second Edition). As for where it > comes from: I'm a very bottom-line person and this is the bottom line for > me. It was like, "Duhhh. Taht's just common sense--or should be." > Where's it take me? In my SF, it (among other things) had led me > to portray women as equal to men in the ways described above. > > -Sean > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 04:16:25 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Tiptree Judge (Was Re: So who is on this list?) Comments: To: Berni Phillips In-Reply-To: <33BF9A6D.584C@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Berni Phillips wrote: > > Nalo, congratulations and I wish you strength! I'm a friend of Janet > Lafler, chair of this past year's committee, and Debbie Notkin, another > former Tiptree judge, and from what they've said, I can't even imagine > the amount of work that goes into this. It sounds like it pretty much > takes over your life for the year, all the reading that you have to do. NH: It is doing exactly that. Thanks for the good wishes, Berni. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:19:51 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: David Silver Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am an elderly, soon-to-be-retired, almost dead white male. I went to graduate school when new criticism was new, and am politically slightly to the right of Russell Kirk. I am also a feminist, permit me to explain. Twenty-three years ago my first child, a daughter was born. I was forty at the time and was entranced by this beautiful and clever child and so spent a lot of time with her. When she first began speaking intellegibly I used to ask her what she would do when she grew up. Her prompted reply was "I going to be a doctor and look after you when you are old." We both would laugh. Then one day she got seriously ill and spent three weeks in the hospital. When she got home I initiated our litany, "What are you going to do when you grow up?" Her reply was "I'm going to be a nurse." I asked her why and she said "Men are doctors and girls are nurses", which is what she had observed in the hospital. I immediately scoured Toronto for a female pediatrician and spent the next fifteen years encouraging her to pursue her own interests without regard to society's, or my expectations. She is entering law school this coming fall. I also teach a science fiction course at a local college and I try to include feminist texts as they represent a sizable portion of the canon. Besides, intellectual honesty requires that all facets of the genre be presented to students, not just those that conform to my biases. David Silver ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:59:16 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Anitra E. Heiberg Lykke" Subject: who is on this list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kate wrote: "I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Hi, I am Anitra, and considers finding this list pure bliss. Discovering that there are actual living women who also love science-fiction as well as being feminists, still feels wonderful. Not that I have met any in person yet, that will hopefully come. I am a university student, working on a major-thesis on gender and science-education, I write science fiction for fun, too often enjoying that more than working on the thesis. I'm also married to a non sci-fi reader, who didn't even like "The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" He nevertheless has promised to read all I write. I'm a mother of 2 and I've been reading science fiction since I was 9( "The wizard from Earthsea" and "The day of the triffids" in Norwegian) and in english since I found "Star dog" at 14. I used to read everything I could get my hands on(like my fathers 10 cases full of golden age sci-fi books), but readingtime is harder to come by these days. I have enjoyed dicovering more feminist sf/fantasy than Marge Piercy and Ursula k.LeGuin, and am looking foreward to a holiday in Oslo, where there are a few bookstores that can keep me occupied for hours - sunshine or not. I will be off the list until september, as I had 101 mails after a few days away. - Anitra ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:52:52 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sheryl Curtis Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? > Well, I'm defintely random people. I run my own freelance translation/technical writing business, I sometimes teach translation part-time at the B.A. level, I have two hyperactive kids and I'm writing the last chapter of my doctoral thesis in Humanities in my spare time. I've been reading SF and been a feminist since I can remember. I haven't had much time for reading in the past couple of years and I joined this list to hear about what's out there to be read. I love the list, but I don't feel I have much to contribute just yet. When I finish my thesis, I want to start translating French and French-Canadian SF into English. Sheryl Curtis Montreal, Quebec ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:53:48 -0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Antonio Marcos da Silva Pereira Subject: where to find books In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi! On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, MARINA YERESHENKO wrote: > By the way, I was unable to find a book of almost any author > discussed here (except Delany) neither in libraries, nor in bookstores > here in Oklahoma. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where I can find them > without driving to another state (for example, I'd really like to read > any of books by Elizabeth Vonerberg). 1) you may try one of those huge online bookstores -- i've been buying books for some three years that way, and my reading life has changed ever since. i usually buy at either amazon or barnes and noble . DISCLAIMER: none of these stores is paying me any money to do this! best, Antonio Marcos Pereira ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:31:19 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: schant Subject: Re: So who is on this list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more computer geek (Networks Support person for a steel company). I've read SF since childhood - Asimov, Bradbury, John Wyndham - not really noticing gender at the time. Since evolving a feminist consciousness in the '70's and finding Marge Piercy's "Woman on the Edge of Time" I've devoured feminist and woman-oriented science fiction. Favourites are LeGuin, Russ - especially her uncompromising "We who are about to..." , and most recently Pat Cadigan's mix of cyberpunk and horror. These days I don't have time to read as much, and have missed out on many of the titles mentioned on the list, but I'm working on it! Cheers SC -- "Take what you want", said God. "Take it - and pay for it." Old Spanish proverb, quoted in "South Riding" by Winifred Holtby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:47:14 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Tanya Wood Subject: Re: Who's on this list. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear all, I've been quiet for a while, too. Like others no doubt I'm really busy tangled up in the thoes of academic requirements for a PhD (where the main impetus seems to be to make you do all kinds of stuff you don't want to do and keep you diligently from everything else). I'm up for special fields exams in a few months (I'm on Bk 7 of Paradise Lost) and then I'll finally be allowed to WRITE MY THESIS which is on women in imaginary worlds. My basic idea is to test out whether the ability if sf and fantasy to imagine new systems of sexual politics beyond those of "the real world" works in the late 16th century to about 1667: the last date is there because I wish to do the fabulous and wonderful (not to mention wierd) Margaret Cavendish. Unfortunately this has also meant Paradise Lost. A query to another sf page on possible definitions of the "fantastic" and the "imaginary" provoked a flotilla of answers, mostly saying that the "fantastic" did not exist untill the enlightenment as some sort of objective reality is needed as a counterpoint before the fantastic can exist. Any ideas on this? Apart from this I am a New Zealander, exiled to the freezing wastes of Toronto for the interim. I'm going to be doing my first conference at the MLA in Toronto this Christmas on Donna Haraway's Manifesto for Cyborgs...I've been feminist for ever (I remember being stunned at school asking all my girlfriends what they wanted to be when they grew up and finding them all answering "get married" or "be a nurse." All I knew is that I wanted to make real money to buy all the sweets and candies I wanted and I knew becoming a nurse was not the way to this!). As academia is not the route to sweets and candies, I have obviously experienced a few changes in my world view since I was 7! Thanks to she who intitated this discussion: I'm really impressed with how many techies there are out there reading feminist sf. Dale Spender once emphasised how vital feminist techies are, to stop women from being edited out of the data bases of the information age.There is light in the gloom, hurrah! Tanya ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:01:23 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kym Ragusa Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I'm new to the list. My name is Kym Ragusa and I'm an independent film/video maker. I got into SF as a kid, watching Star Trek on tv (I'm still obsessed!). I also loved all the Saturday afternoon monster movies, like Godzilla, The Blob, Creature From the Black Lagoon, and especially Werewolf movies. My favorite SF films are Stalker and Solaris (Tarkovsky), Born in Flames (Lizzie Borden), Fresh Kill (Shu Lea Cheang), and La Jetee (Chris Marker). I also came to SF through music, particularly Bowie's Space Oddity and X Ray Spex' Germfree Adolescents. For me, the early punk era was living SF - urban and apocalyptic. It is only recently that I have begun to read SF - I've read Butler's Wild Seed, Kindred, and Parable of the Sower, and Delaney's Babel-17. I want to read everything by these two writers - they're amazing. I also just picked up Trouble and Her Friends by Melissa Scott, which I heard is very good. As a feminist, SF has allowed me to think about power in new ways - I'm not really interested in utopian matriarhies, but rather in strong women who fight for their lives and the lives of others in insane times. I don't mean power & strength necessarily in physical terms, although I'm truly inspired by Xena, Tank Girl (the comic), and Ripley in the "Alien" series. I'm also an interracial woman of color, and I'm interested in SF that breaks down rigid notions of identity (race, gender, sexuality, nation, etc). I have a real soft spot for shapeshifter characters in particular! Can anyone recommend other books by SF writers of color? Right now, I'm working on a web project about one of my ancestors, a woman who escaped slavery. Ultimately, I would like to make an SF feature film. Kym Ragusa > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this >list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? >Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? > > I guess I'll start, since I'm silly enough to ask. I'm Kate >Bolin. I'm going into my third year at Tulane University, as a >Anthropology/Religious Traditions of the West major. I work at the >Newcomb College Center for Research on Women as their main techie. I >update the webpage, and I'll run the computer cluster (once it really gets >in). > I've been raised on science fiction, and have always been looking >for strong female/feminist characters in science fiction. I think that's >part of the reason I'm such a huge Babylon 5 addict. > >kate >who hopes this might spark some conversation.... >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." > Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin > Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ann Wheeler Subject: Re: So who is on this list? I have been so interested by the many different kinds of former lurkers introducing themselves in the last few days that I've decided to join the crowd. I teach English to twelfth graders in an independent school in Nashville, Tennessee. I started reading science fiction--well, I can't remember when I didn't read science fiction. I grew up on a farm in rural Georgia and, while I loved and still love the farm, I often felt like a "space alien" myself in the surrounding community. In early adolescence I read Heinlein and Asimov; in my later teenage years, I discovered LeGuin and Russ. My interest in reading current science fiction--and specifically, current feminist science fiction-- revived this year when I sponsored an independent study with two twelfth grade girls in (mostly) American science fiction since 1950. (In fact, it was one of my students who introduced me to this list). The most interesting books that I've read recently are *The Sparrow* (by Mary Doria Russell, I think?) and Nicola Griffith's *Slow River.* While I am usually hesitant to join the conversation on the list, I have found it consistently interesting over the three or four months that I've been lurking. Ann Wheeler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey, Kim. Glad to meet you. For other sf writers of colour, check out the "Decolores Project" website. I can never find the url. I'll look it up and get back to you. I'm a Black/Caribbean writer/reader of sf, and I make a point of seeking out sf by writers of colour, specifically Black writers. Don't know if you have preferences between science fiction and fantasy, but I really enjoyed _Voodoo Dreams: a tale of Marie Laveau_ by Jewell Parker Rhodes. It's about Marie Laveau, the "vodoun queen" of New Orleans. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:21:07 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marsha Valance Subject: Re: So who is on this list? -Reply Comments: To: sean-johnston@UIOWA.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? Marsha Valance, library reader's advisor, storyteller, and SF fan for 45 years (beginning with Captain Video and Tom Corbett). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:41:25 GMT+100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Imperfect matriarchal societies Comments: To: joanna goltzman In-Reply-To: <199707061729.MAA12865@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 6 Jul 97 , joanna goltzman wrote: > One thing I really liked about _The Maerlande Chronicles_ is that it > is about a matriarchal society with problems. The society's > drawbacks make it believable and more interesting, to me, at least, > than a "perfect" society (utopia). Anyone know of more imperfect > matriarchal societies I could read about? What about 'The Women's Shore' (if that is the English title) by Pamela Sargent? It plays in a post-catastrophique future in which the women live in comfortable cities, the men, controlled by the women, outside. The control goes so far that the men do not even know about it (they think the women are goddesses). However, the point of the story is not to show how a women-only society works. Most of the book plays outside of the cities. I liked the book a lot. The next try is, of course, 'Ammonite' by Nicola Griffith. I have read the book several times and love it. On the 'Who's on the list' thread: I am a mechanical engineer who works in the field of the environmental impact assessment of energy systems. Parallelly I try to finish my Ph.D. thesis (getting a Ph.D. in Germany works differently from the U.S., one is (more or less) fully employed by the University and does research projects, no course work)). I also work unpaid in the Stuttgart rape center. I am nearly 33, German (any other Germans out there on the list?), heterosexual, a feminist for some years. My first 'feminist' science fiction was 'The left hand of darkness', which made a huge impression on me at 16. I rediscovered feminst science fiction 4 years ago and by now have read a lot of it. Thanks to Laura Quilter, her homepage helped me a lot in hunting down the relevant titles in the bookstores and libraries. Somebody else stated in her introduction, that she has never met a fan of feminist science fiction in person. The same is (nearly) true for me. I am really glad that I found this discussion list. Petra ** Petra Mayerhofer ** pm@ier.uni-stuttgart.de ** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:58:25 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Valerie Renwick-Porter Subject: sf writers of colour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Hey, Kim. Glad to meet you. For other sf writers of colour, check out > the "Decolores Project" website. I can never find the url. I'll look it > up and get back to you. I'd like to get that URL also--could you post it for the list when you find it? Thanks, Valerie ============================================ Valerie Renwick-Porter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:56:15 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Bonnie Gray Subject: Re: Readercon? Do you know the days of Readercon? I live in California, but it so happens I'll be in Boston toward the end of July for a couple of weeks. Bonnie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:59:14 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Bolin Subject: Ammonite In-Reply-To: <913E023DA2@iers1.ier.uni-stuttgart.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have been trying to find this book in our completely unorganized library system, and, unfortunately, it's only in the rare books collection. Which means I would have to sit down there and read it. What's the general plot and is it worth it? I rarely do things like this unless they are worth the effort... Kate ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The computer is not a penis. Don't let men treat it like one." Kate Bolin http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kbolin Founder of Delenn Deserves Better!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:55:55 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Freddie Baer Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Delurking for just a moment, this is Freddie Baer, probably one of the more random of the random people out there. I'm a lot of different things (none of which are connected with an university) but probably the role most of the people on this list will recognize is that of the artist of the Tiptree Award t-shirts. I've been very quiet on list but nonetheless appreciative on the recommendations and discussions that take place. Freddie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:29:48 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michelle Kendrick Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I'm not a person... err, random person? I'm a new assistant professor of english at washington state univeristy, vancouver. My special area is the study of technology/culture with an emphasis on computers and identity. I like good science fiction and fantasy.... and I really like feminist inspired stuff. Russ, Tepper, McMaster Bujold, Piercy, nicola griffith, Greg Bear, Kim STanley Robinson, Robert Jordon, are a few of the one's I've read recently and enjoyed. Recently I sent my first fiction story out and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Michelle _______________________________________________________________ Michelle R. Kendrick Assistant Professor of English Washington State University 14204 NE Salmon Creek Avenue Vancouver, Washington 98686 (360)546-9645 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:40:31 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: _Glory Season_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >-- Joel VanLaven commented: > Well, I personally loved _Glory Season_ by David Brin. It is about >a matriarchial society that was bio-engineered to be so. Some feminists >have critisized it / disliked it, (perhaps it was a little too harsh on >the poor matriarchy (especially the anti-male parts). Also, the author >was apparently an obnoxious jerk about not winning the Tiptree award (he >mentioned a "feminist cabal") So, read it with a grain of salt. However, >I think that there is alot to be gotten from it. It didn't work for me. I think a) the matriarchial founders were just too manipulative, even more so than the founders of _Women's Country_, and b) I didn't think the concept of sexuality was dealt with realistically. Just my $.02. And don't tell David -- I see him on a regular basis, and I don't think he would take my negative comments well. :} Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: SM Charnas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Speaking of "who is on this list," Janice and Susan commented: >> I recently finished _A Door Into Ocean_, which was >> somewhat interesting, though the bad guys were cut out of cardboard, and >> the 3rd _Native Tongue_ book, which was patently absurd and very bad. > >I picked up that whole trilogy in a used bookstore, because they were >inexpensive and looked interesting (and I'd just handed in two very large >term papers and was treating myself), and I read through all three books >in one weekend, but by the time I got to the end of the trilogy, I was >reading just for the sake of finishing what I'd started. They started out >interestingly enough but just degenerated... and I found something vaguely >offensive in the portrayal of the inter-gender relations. The idea that >men and women just can't, literally and unequivocally and universally >-can't- understand each other. Well, I guess they worked for me because I am sometimes baffled by the fact that any two entities are able to communicate, let alone two entities fo different genders. And living with my husband and son is enough to give me many instances of complete conviction that they are indeed wired differently and occasionally incomprehensible. Comments from Susie? Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:48:31 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michael Marc Levy Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Freddie Baer wrote: > Delurking for just a moment, this is Freddie Baer, probably one of the > more random of the random people out there. I'm a lot of different > things (none of which are connected with an university) but probably > the role most of the people on this list will recognize is that of > the artist of the Tiptree Award t-shirts. > > I've been very quiet on list but nonetheless appreciative on the > recommendations and discussions that take place. > > Freddie > At WisCon someone, it may have been Karen Joy Fowler or Pat Murphy, suggested that we should plot to get Freddie Baer nominated for a Hugo for best artist next year. Her collage work is wonderful. Besides the Tiptree Award t-shirts (my wife, Sandra Lindow, won one in the raffle this year, thank you very much), she's also done great work for Science Fiction Eye. Mike Levy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:54:04 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robin Gordon Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Another RANDOM member: to quickly reintroduce myself, I'm an out dyke, queer activist, socialist feminist, labour lawyer, living, working, and raising shit in Toronto, though originally from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. SF's just about the only fiction I read, and little enough time for it either. I love Melissa Scott, Nicola Griffith, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Vonda McIntyre, Wilhelmina Baird, Emma Bull, and many others. I too just bought Griffin's decline and fall. Despite my earlier rantings on the list about Tepper's homophobia and biological determinism in The Gate to Women's Country, I've taken all the Tepper fans on the list to heart, and thought I'd give this one a chance. Robin Gordon -------------------------------------- "I am the wall with the womanly swagger." Judy Grahn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:15:59 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ruth Ann Jones Subject: Re: So who is on this list? >Delurking for just a moment, this is Freddie Baer, probably one of the >more random of the random people out there. I'm a lot of different >things (none of which are connected with an university) but probably >the role most of the people on this list will recognize is that of >the artist of the Tiptree Award t-shirts. Oh, that's neat! I have this year's t-shirt and I get questions about it, or comments of "that's really cool" every time I wear it. My turn for a brief bio, I guess. I'm a reference librarian and women's studies specialist at Michigan State University, and I teach a class on (what else) "how to do research" for the women's studies department. I'm a longtime Star Trek fan (and I've also been impressed with what I've seen, sporadically, of B5, but I'm waiting for syndication so I can catch up all at once). Some of the authors I've enjoyed in the last year or so: Octavia Butler, Parable of the Sower and Kindred; Connie Willis, Doomsday Book and Bellwether; Mary Doria Russell, The Sparrow; Orson Scott Card, Pastwatch; Nancy Kress, Beggars in Spain; Maureen McHugh, China Mountain Zhang... that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Oh, and here's my chance to ask: has anyone here read The Art Lover, by Carole Maso? I love that book *so much*. Many people would probably not consider it fantasy -- it has some fantastic elements within a mainstream story and all the rest of her work is mainstream -- but it's wonderful. Ruth Ann Jones ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:55:16 UT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Re: So who is on this list?/Introducing myself I've just joined the list--knew it was there, have been trying to resist as I'm on far too many lists already--but finally succumbed. I've been a feminist ever since I can remember (since before I first came across the word and thought 'aha'): though concerned about some of the more recent developments in feminism and the changing definitions of what it means to people, I'd still say, 'I AM a feminist, but...' (rather than 'I'm not a feminist, but...') I read various fantastic literature in childhood/adolescence--most memorably the Narnia books--but really got into sf/fantasy in my early 20s with Le Guin (Left Hand of Darkness and Earthsea) and McCaffrey's Pern books. Now have a large and ever-growing collection, mostly of works by women (though perhaps not all strictly feminist!). Have had 2 fantasy short stories published (in The Penguin Book of Modern Fantasy by Women and The Penguin Book of Erotic Writing by Women) and have completed several unpublished novels. I am not actually writing fiction at the moment, due less (I think) to the discouragement of not getting these published, than to the pressures of having both a full-time career as an archivist (at the Wellcome Institute for the History of Medicine in London) and an increasingly demanding 'spare-time' vocation as an historian. (One of my current projects is a biography of Stella Browne, an early C20th British feminist and socialist, who although--as far as I can ascertain--she never wrote any actual fiction, was very definitely a utopian thinker.) Looking forward to being on the list Lesley Lesley_Hall@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:10:09 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Nancy A. Horn" Subject: Re: So who is on this list? -Reply In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am a new to this list lurking goo ball biochemist. lurkingly yours nancy At 10:21 AM 7/7/97 -0500, you wrote: > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up >for this list...Do we have a lot of professors? College >students? Random people? Writers? Computer geeks? >Et cetera? > >Marsha Valance, library reader's advisor, storyteller, and >SF fan for 45 years (beginning with Captain Video and >Tom Corbett). > > www.crl.com/~yashmak/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:22:06 -0400 Reply-To: Joel VanLaven Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Kate Bolin wrote: > I am beginning to wonder what type of people sign up for this > list...Do we have a lot of professors? College students? Random people? > Writers? Computer geeks? Et cetera? I'll go with "computer geek" for my current full-time job is super computer-geeky. We write Ada compilers and development tools for IBM RS/6000 computers (e.g. Deep Blue). However, I could be a college student (I'm taking education courses at UVA), or by even more of a stretch a professor (That's my target career). Now for the biography. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I have been a feminist for as long as I can remember. I was raised in a non-violent, feminist, queer-friendly (is there a better way to say that?) intentional Quaker community in Pittsburgh. I never called my parents by anything other than their names (Lise and Mark). I constantly have to explain how my last name (VanLaven) is a melding of my parents' names (Levie and VanRaden). I played with dolls and trucks as a child. The most important thing is that my parents taught me to question everything and evaluate things for myself. So, rather than forcing their beliefs on me, we discussed the issues from multiple viewpoints. My mother in particular will (without warning) take a position subtly though fundamentally in opposition to what she actual believes in to play devil's advocate and force me to think for myself. Somehow, much to their amazement, I developed my own beliefs strikingly to theirs. Part of my belief system (that I suppose could be traced to the "Golden rule" and/or the Quaker belief of "looking to the light" is that I should try to empathize, and imagine myself in the position of other people and kinds of people. In a way, I try to reduce my self-image as much as possible in order for it to be as expansize as possible (sort-of). Anway, I find science fiction to be an incredibly useful and enjoyable tool in exploring who "I" can be that is more fundamental than "white" "male" "human" ... Perhaps because of my strong feminist drive, I find that I gravitate toward feminist sci-fi in particular. I find that I like "firm" science fiction that ties the story and ideas in it to the real world with some sort of scientific explanation. Essentially, while fantasy is fine (given suitable new, rational rules for the universe) I dislike super-fantastic mystical spin rides. I sort of need to feel that there is an intellectual floor supporting me. I also don't like fiction that doesn't seem to have a (maybe more than one) point. In general such points must be about what it means to be "human" in some way or other. -- Joel VanLaven ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:14:06 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Nancy A. Horn" Subject: Re: SM Charnas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Imagine finding you here. I'm the friend of Vonda McIntyre's. Remember me. buzz buzz, nancy At 11:40 AM 7/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >Speaking of "who is on this list," Janice and Susan commented: > >>> I recently finished _A Door Into Ocean_, which was >>> somewhat interesting, though the bad guys were cut out of cardboard, and >>> the 3rd _Native Tongue_ book, which was patently absurd and very bad. >> >>I picked up that whole trilogy in a used bookstore, because they were >>inexpensive and looked interesting (and I'd just handed in two very large >>term papers and was treating myself), and I read through all three books >>in one weekend, but by the time I got to the end of the trilogy, I was >>reading just for the sake of finishing what I'd started. They started out >>interestingly enough but just degenerated... and I found something vaguely >>offensive in the portrayal of the inter-gender relations. The idea that >>men and women just can't, literally and unequivocally and universally >>-can't- understand each other. > >Well, I guess they worked for me because I am sometimes baffled by the fact >that any two entities are able to communicate, let alone two entities fo >different genders. And living with my husband and son is enough to give me >many instances of complete conviction that they are indeed wired >differently and occasionally incomprehensible. > >Comments from Susie? > > > >Maryelizabeth >Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 >3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 >San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX >http://www.mystgalaxy.com > > www.crl.com/~yashmak/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:25:14 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Emilie Falc Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well Kate, since you asked, I'm Emilie Falc a grad student in Rhetorical and Feminist Theory who also teaches public speaking, communication theory, and interpersonal communication. I got interested in reading SF when I spotted The Crystal Singer by Anne McCaffrey on the library bookshelf. Now I know that some feminists don't consider McCaffrey's female characters to be really liberated, but at the time I liked reading about a woman who had a career and a few love interests in her adventurous life. I've since enjoyed many other SF books by women writers one of my favorites has been the Fifth Sacred Thing by Starhawk. I look forward to reading Walking to Mercury as soon as I finish the dissertation. Em ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:41:52 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <6E9D4211C2@nchecr.unsw.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (I wrote this in reply to Bronwen Turner , but then saw how many Australian addresses there seem to be, so I'm posting it to the list at large.) >I'm a medical administrator at a university in Sydney, Australia You DO know the Worldcon is going back to Melbourne in two years, don't you? I ask just to double-check; it would be too much of a shame to get the news too late! Neil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:14:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: finding . . . In-Reply-To: <199707061729.MAA12865@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joanna Goltzman replied: >Marina Yereshenko wrote: By the way, I was unable to find a book of almost >any author discussed here (except Delany) neither in libraries, nor in >bookstores >here in Oklahoma. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where I can find them >without driving to another state (for example, I'd really like to read >any of books by Elizabeth Vonarberg). > >Finding books has been a bit of a problem for me, too. I recently finished >Elisabeth Vonarberg's _The Maerlande Chronicles_ (also published in English >as _In the Mothers' Land_). I had to order it from a Canadian distributer >because it is out of print in the United States. (H.B. Finn & Co. in Bolton, >Ontario 905-951-6600.) Another option is amazon.com, an internet bookstore >(address can be found using Yahoo or another search engine). Amazon lists >_The Maerland Chronicles_ as available, but says the book takes 4 to 6 weeks >to get IF amazon can find it somewhere. H.B. Finn sent me the book in a week. I have the good fortune (Neil Rest, computer freak, Random, soi disant anarchofeminist, fan) to live in a city (Chicago) with an exceptional sf bookstore (Stars Our Destination, run by the redoutable Alice Bentley ) which is in perennial danger of being overrun by its Used Books section. So for a while, I've been wondering about suggesting to this list some sort of book-exchange or shoppping-service arrangement. I have no particular organizational details in mind, more general friendly functionality. I recently got a good copy of _Left Hand of Darkness_, with the original Dillon cover; early Delaney turns up regularly; there's often a bunch of Tepper. There was a complete run of the _Orbit_ series on the specials shelf not too long ago. What do people think? Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:20:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Marie Groppi wrote: >So, I'm very curious about what feminism means to people here, and where >it comes from in your life, where it takes you. For me, feminism derives directly from first principles. One of my best definitions of anarchy is opposition to the imposition of formulas. "Woman" in the sense of a collection of social roles and expectations is exactly a laundry list of formulas which are imposed. (yes, this IS abbreviated) Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:28:00 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: _Glory Season_ In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joel VanLaven wrote: > Well, I personally loved _Glory Season_ by David Brin. It is about >a matriarchial society that was bio-engineered to be so. Some feminists >have critisized it / disliked it, (perhaps it was a little too harsh on >the poor matriarchy (especially the anti-male parts). Also, the author >was apparently an obnoxious jerk about not winning the Tiptree award (he >mentioned a "feminist cabal") David's pretty OK once you add the large discount for his large head. I _was_ very surprised not to see _Glory Season_ on the Tiptree list; it seemed it ought to be a nominee. Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:53:05 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anastasia McPherson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970707121009.006a6120@mail.crl.com> from "Nancy A. Horn" at Jul 7, 97 12:10:09 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - Since it seems to be roll call, I will delurk and describe myself as yet another random person/writer who was thrilled beyond belief to discover this list. I am a feminist. I am very interested n the utopic/dystopic dyad as a reader, writer and philosopher and think that speculative fiction as a means of moral criticism ofcontemporary society began as a means of expression by women. the first sicence fiction works were by women - even before Frankenstein was Margaret Cavendish's The Blazing World. Anastasia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:22:04 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Freddie Baer Subject: Re: _Glory Season_ Comments: To: NeilRest@TEZCAT.COM Neil Rest wrote: >>David's pretty OK once you add the large discount for his large head. I _was_ very surprised not to see _Glory Season_ on the Tiptree list; it seemed it ought to be a nominee.<< If you go up to the 1993 Tiptree Award pages (http://www.sf3.org/tiptree/1993/long.html) , you'll find that _Glory Season_ did make the Tiptree long list and received critical commentary by Ursula LeGuin and Jeanne Gomoll, Tiptree judges for that year. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:24:06 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: CMUNSON Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After some prodding by Freddie, I have decided to delurk... My name is Chuck "Chuck0" Munson and I'm a 32-year-old straight white male working as a webmaster/librarian/computer specialist for a professional association in Washington, DC. I'm originally from Kansas and I have no intention of ever being a university student again since I'm paying off student loans until I'm 40. That's not to say I'm against lifelong learning. I identify myself politically as an anarchist and run one website devoted to that called the Mid-Atlantic Infoshop (http://burn.ucsd.edu/~mai/). I also volunteer my librarian skills to an online anarchist archive called Spunk Press (http://www.spunk.org/). I'm a big fan of Babylon 5 so I run another site called the Babylon 5 Zone (http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/1672/bab5.html). I also run a small mailing list devoted to "Babylon 5 and Anarchy," which delves into the political dimensions of the show that some people just don't understand. I've been reading SF off and on since I was kid. In recent years, I've been very selective, but alot of my reading has been feminist works (Piercy, Le Guin, Slonczewski). I recently read Le Guin's *Four Ways to Forgiveness* which I heartily recommend. I'm currently reading Robinson's *Blue Mars*, which isn't that feminist, but it is very anarchist/libertarian and i find myself making notes in the margin of a FICTION book. I come to feminism from my reading and my activist experiences. It is enlightened by watching the the deleterious effects this patriarchal capitalist culture has had on my three younger sisters. I try to be as supportive of them as I can, but it's very hard fighting against my parent's influences and the overall socialization they have been subjected to. Is that good enough? Can we discuss how nice it would be if Ursula Le Guin did a sequel to Four Ways which detailed how the women on Yeowe and Werel achieved their own liberation? Chuck0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: finding . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970707091429.006aa5a0@tezcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Actually, people have suggested this to me via correspondence regarding the feminist-sf web pages. I don't have the time to point into organizing it, but I do suspect that there is interest, especially for trans-oceanic exchanges. I know that I would be very, very willing to pay for copies of ILLICIT PASSAGE by Alice Nunn (from Women's Redress Press in Australia) if only I could get some out here. If someone else wants to do the work I'll be happy to provide whatever supporting services (web space, for instance) are required. On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Neil Rest wrote: > So for a while, I've been wondering about suggesting to this list some sort > of book-exchange or shoppping-service arrangement. I have no particular > organizational details in mind, more general friendly functionality. I > recently got a good copy of _Left Hand of Darkness_, with the original > Dillon cover; early Delaney turns up regularly; there's often a bunch of > Tepper. There was a complete run of the _Orbit_ series on the specials > shelf not too long ago. > > What do people think? > > > Neil Rest > Laura Quilter / lauramd@uic.edu Electronic Services Librarian University of Illinois at Chicago ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:49:19 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Lori A. Campbell" Subject: Re: finding Elisabeth Vonarburg In-Reply-To: <199707061729.MAA12865@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, joanna goltzman wrote: > Marina Yereshenko wrote: By the way, I was unable to find a book of almost > any author discussed here (except Delany) neither in libraries, nor in > bookstores > here in Oklahoma. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where I can find them > without driving to another state (for example, I'd really like to read > any of books by Elizabeth Vonarberg). > > Finding books has been a bit of a problem for me, too. I recently finished Try using Interlibrary Loan at your local library. I have been able to get almost any book that exists through this service -- especially useful for out-of-print books. Lori (the Librarian)> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:51:21 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ildiko Paulovitch Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Hello, Guess I haven't checked my mail in four days, only took 30 minutes to read it all! Other here, occupational therapist who was signed on to this list by my friend laura, (hey sweetie). My first dip into the sci-fi waters was with Elizabeth A. Lynn, Watchtower, Dancer's of Arun and Northern Girl. Out of print unfortunately, though I still see them now and again at used book stores. Definately feminist books and with queer themes. I recommend them highly if you can find them. Promise to stop lurking and start writing, bye for now ildiko ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:02:06 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nicola Griffith Subject: Re: who is on this list I'm a reader, writer, and teacher. I find this list interesting because the subscribers cover a vast range of age, experience, taste, political awareness, self-knowledge etc. etc. I love to watch readers discovering new books and new people to discuss those books with. This list is important, I think. It connects those of us who have a great deal of expertise with those of us who are only just discovering feminist SF. I hope we all continue to play nicely with each other, and to share generously. Nicola Nicola Griffith http://www.america.net/~daves/ng/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:59:31 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: meeting other femsf readers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >nancy commented: >Imagine finding you here. I'm the friend of Vonda McIntyre's. Remember me. > >buzz buzz See? We may be scattered world wide, but it IS possible for two or more of us to meet! (To sorta comment on an earlier comment...) Speaking of Vonda, her new work, _The Moon and the Sun_, is the most compelling novel I've read this summer!! Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:05:20 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: finding books... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Also, where new books are concerned, there is a bookseller on the list (For those who may not have discovered Mysterious Galaxy is a SF/mystery bookstore). -<] toot toot ^It's my own horn. Really. Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:16:59 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Re: Ammonite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" _Ammonite_ is a really good book. (My qualification for that term, BTW, is that it have both a good idea, and be well executed.) It examines the lives of inhabitants of a planet which only supports females, killing the males. A woman from off planet who is sent there with a mission must work with the culture and its mindsets. Hope this helps. However, I am startled that it is in your "rare books section." Not to detract from the novel in any way, but it was a paperback original just a few years ago, and I believe is still readily available in paperback. Are you sure you have located the correct book? Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:19:21 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: Lizzie Lynn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ildiko mentioned: >Hello, > Guess I haven't checked my mail in four days, only took 30 minutes to >read it all! Other here, occupational therapist who was signed on to this >list by my friend laura, (hey sweetie). My first dip into the sci-fi waters >was with Elizabeth A. Lynn, Watchtower, Dancer's of Arun and Northern Girl. > Out of print unfortunately, though I still see them now and again at used >book stores. Definately feminist books and with queer themes. I recommend >them highly if you can find them. Promise to stop lurking and start writing, >bye for now Lynn has a new book due out in the fall, and her publisher has made a commitment to reissue the earlier books as well. Yay! I think these are some of my favorites, especially the second, _Dancers of Arun_. Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:55:49 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: So who is on this list? In-Reply-To: <01BC8AE8.AD8A50A0@rj1.lib.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ruth, you're at the home of Clarion East. Octavia Butler's one of the writers there this year. I'm going to MSU at the end of this month for the Clarion reunion, and am keeping my fingers crossed that she'll be there. I'd love to meet her. -nalo "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:50:06 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Nalo Hopkinson Subject: Re: Readercon? In-Reply-To: <9707071556.AA18780@madrone.ece.ucdavis.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NH: It may be happening too early for you: this weekend, July 11-13. -nalo On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Bonnie Gray wrote: > Do you know the days of Readercon? I live in California, but it > so happens I'll be in Boston toward the end of July for a couple of > weeks. > > Bonnie > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, "Nature's Pictures," 1656 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Ammonite In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: >However, I am startled that it is in your "rare books section." Not to >detract from the novel in any way, but it was a paperback original just a >few years ago, and I believe is still readily available in paperback. Are >you sure you have located the correct book? A white brick, unfortunately, has a shelf life of about six weeks. Then it's pulped. A couple of years ago, when _Synners_ was nominated for the Philip K. Dick Award, the publisher couldn't provide review copies for the judges because they'd already emptied the warehouse, and there were no more copies whasoever. Neil Rest ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kym Ragusa Subject: Re: So who is on this list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Nalo, Good to meet you too. Thanks for the _Voodoo Dreams_ suggestion. I started to read it at one time, because it's very much a subject that I'm interested in, but I couldn't get past the first few chapters. There's something about the style of writing that frustrated me. I tried to find the Decolores Project, but no luck. What is it? I'm also really interested in reading your work. Kym > >I'm a Black/Caribbean writer/reader of sf, and I make a point of seeking >out sf by writers of colour, specifically Black writers. Don't know if >you have preferences between science fiction and fantasy, but I really >enjoyed _Voodoo Dreams: a tale of Marie Laveau_ by Jewell Parker Rhodes. >It's about Marie Laveau, the "vodoun queen" of New Orleans. > >-nalo > > "Straight she's fantastical, they all do cry." > -Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle, > "Nature's Pictures," 1656