Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG9808D" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 07:12:37 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Kathleen M. Friello" Subject: Gaskell, Cranford Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apologies if this has already been posted; The Project Gutenberg Etext of Cranford, by Elizabeth Gaskell ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/etext/gutenberg/etext96/crnfd10.txt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 18:08:14 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marina Subject: Re: future of "race" Comments: To: Anthea In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > I've always wondered why that should be. I know that many whites > believe that having one black ancestor makes a person black, but I > have never heard of any black person believing that having one > white ancestor makes a person white. I knew someone who did. I had a friend from Nigeria whose mother was Nigerian and father Lebanese. People in Lebanon (at least the Christians) consider themselves more Middeterranean Europeans rather than Arabs for what I've heard. And in his home country in Nigeria, being half-Lebanese, this guy was considered white. The problem was that when he came to Oklahoma to go to school, he still considered himself white. He had white friends. He only wanted to date white girls. Once, when he tried to approach one of them in the dorms, she called cops on him, and he almost got locked up in j ail. She said he had threatened her, and they believed her, mainly because he was black, and this was -- well, Oklahoma. He was still going out only with white girls, mostly the kind that here are called "rednecks". He always complained how their families did not accept him. He called them racists. But he still kept saying that he'd never date a black girl in US because he was white and he did not go all the way to America to get the same stuff he could have had at home. It was all very sad. Marina http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society is selling at the time." Naomi Wolf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:13 +0200 Reply-To: gaudit@global.co.za Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anthea Subject: Re: future of "race" Comments: To: Marina In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 22 Aug 98, at 18:08, Marina wrote: > He was still going out only with white girls, mostly the kind that here > are called "rednecks". He always complained how their families did not > accept him. He called them racists. But he still kept saying that he'd > never date a black girl in US because he was white and he did not go all > the way to America to get the same stuff he could have had at home. > > It was all very sad. Your story shows that the most important factor that defines a person's race, is not how we define ourselves, but how other people define us. Whites can be pretty hurtful - often without meaning to be. Mike reported on a Communist Party economic conference a few months ago. At the end he went for a few drinks with an enthusiastic bunch of young Communists of all races so that he could get some photos of the "Communists of the future" type. After everyone had a a few, they got to talking about a big dance they were going to have, and who they were going to partner. One of the blacks guys said that he intended to ask "Kim", one of the white girls at the party, to go with him. "Kim", who had been talking to someone else and not really listening, picked this up and said "I'm not going out with any black!" She immediately apologised, but the damage was done. AJ ----------------------------------------- gaudit@global.co.za , ajhs@usa.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:13 +0200 Reply-To: gaudit@global.co.za Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anthea Subject: Re: Spainish Civil War, Slavery, Race Comments: To: Daniel Krashin In-Reply-To: <19980820125719.3950.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Aug 98, at 5:57, Daniel Krashin wrote: > It's nice to know that people can still get exercised about the > Spanish Civil War in the late 90's, but the discussion is getting > rather far away from FemSF, yes? I agree but it's fascinating anyway (as, indded, Todd's digressions usually are). That's one of the problems with this list. There's such a wide variety of interests and knowledge that it's inevitable that diversions away from FeministSF will inevitably occur frequently. _I personally_ find that I've learnt as much from the digressions as the on-subject postings. > Regarding slavery in SF: read a Heinlein short titled "The Logic > of Empire." It basically deals with the re-establishment of slavery > in the future, concluding that slavery is a Bad Thing but that slavery as > an institution will flourish if economic conditions favor it. You may not > agree with it but it will make you think. Another short story dealing > with slavery is the very recent "Guest Law" (?can't remember the author's > name, but it was in Hartwell's latest "Year's Best" anthology) and it was > a wonderful story, anyway. Orson Scott Card's "Alvin"series touches on > slavery to some extent, but it is not the main focus of the books. Thanks very much. The subject of "slave-trading" in the traditional sense is evidently covered in a 1947 book, "Slavers from Mars" by George Williston. I haven't seen this book. Another "Trading places" book is about the use of white slaves in China after the "collapse" of the U. The title is supposedly "White lotus". It appears (at a guess) to be John Richard Hersey's 1965 "White Lotus" - but I haven't read the book so I hope someone can confirm that I'm on the right track. AJ ----------------------------------------- gaudit@global.co.za , ajhs@usa.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:13 +0200 Reply-To: gaudit@global.co.za Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anthea Subject: Re: future of "race": Anthea Comments: To: Todd Mason In-Reply-To: <25cf463e.35db7fb8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 19 Aug 98, at 21:45, Todd Mason wrote: >> Someone on another list recommended reading an (allegedly) famous >>book called "The Turner Diaries" which (as far as I can tell from >>reading the poorly written work) was a sort of "white supremacist" >>version of (?) > ---alas, not to know what that ill-written "survivalist" tome > might've reminded you of...other than FARNHAM'S FREEHOLD! Todd You shock and surprise me. Clearly I meant the first story ('If this goes on -") in RAH's "Revolt in 2100". Of course, a purist might also have detected reference to RAH's 1947 "Sixth Column". The book in questions, "The Turner Diaries", is definitely one of the "shred before reading" type; it's a turgid mass of mock-heroics which I found grossly offensive. AJ >> > ---alas, not to know what that ill-written "survivalist" tome might've > reminded you of...other than FARNHAM'S FREEHOLD! Anthea, I agree with you > completely here...I think that very few people really hold the notion that > any African ancestry makes one necessarily "black" (whichever sets of > conditions this implies) in the States, though the chestnut is widely > dragged out in reputed reference to a law once in effect somewhere in the > US. Basically, most who refer to this odd "standard" refer to a vague > someone else who actually divides people this way. And Hawaii is no > strife-free paradise of "racial" equity, either, as any Hawaiian, Samoan > or other Polynesian can inform you in detail (Portuguese- and > Filipino-Hawaiians will have a few choice words on the subject as well, if > you ask them). The "mixing" there is no more surprising, nor really more > common, than it is in New Orleans or the West Coast or most cosmopolitan > urban centers these days. > AJ ----------------------------------------- gaudit@global.co.za , ajhs@usa.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:16:29 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Joyce Carol Oates's "Feral" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit in the Septermber 1998 issue of THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION: A not-bad work, dealing with the kind of theme at least as much at home in the supermarket gothic as in the "classic" kind, that of the dangerous stranger in the nest, in this case a child suddenly transformed. The wild-child theme is not given too many novel apects, but the terror at having failed one's offspring, and the perception by the protagonist of the condemnation of a mother who could not be reasonably blamed for a key event but nonetheless is, are observed with acuity. J. Patrick Jensen's vignette "The Kaleidoscope," which follows, could make this the family-loss issue of the year ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:16:27 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Slavery Fiction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-23 03:55:08 EDT, you write: << Another "Trading places" book is about the use of white slaves in China after the "collapse" of the U. The title is supposedly "White lotus". It appears (at a guess) to be John Richard Hersey's 1965 "White Lotus" - but I haven't read the book so I hope someone can confirm that I'm on the right track. >> --It seems likely that John Hersey's WHITE LOTUS is indeed the book you're thinking of...I merely glanced at that one while reaching for his (only?) other sf novel, THE CHILD BUYER, when I was eleven and found the latter's subject matter personally disquieting. Of course, I'd eventually read his HIROSHIMA (certainly his most famous book in the US) a few years later, but have never gone back to pick up his others. Another slavery sf novel worthy of note is Damon Knight's A FOR ANYTHING. After a prolog that introduces a delightful McGuffin in a device that replicates anything you put to it, the situation is set for a pseudofeudal adventure intentionally in the Heinlein mode (Knight, while a better writer, has been a great admirer of RAH), only with slightly more class-consciousness than the model usually indulged in...once one gets past the ending of the prolog, one of the most depressing pieces of fiction I've ever read. Not to digress too much, he notes as he blushes (and ineffectually holds back the impulse to point out to Daniel that the topics don't change, just the illustrative examples...) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:48:51 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joyce Jones Subject: White Lotus Another "Trading places" book is about the use of white slaves in China after the "collapse" of the U. The title is supposedly "White lotus". It appears (at a guess) to be John Richard Hersey's 1965 "White Lotus" - but I haven't read the book so I hope someone can confirm that I'm on the right track. I read this long, long ago and remember liking it very much, but now might have more trouble with it. It's a paean to the possibilities of change of repressive societies through non violent confrontation. I know it worked well for Ghandi and Martin Luther King, but whenever someone suggests to me that feminists should lean more toward these loving methods than toward more angry forms of confrontation it makes me even angrier. The sight of men acting in a meek and loving manner draws attention, women are taken for granted in that guise. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:49:06 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pamela Bedore Subject: BDG Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Folks, I've been away for a few months, and am completely disorganized as to the list. Could someone please tell me what book we're reading for September? Thanks, pamela bedore department of english simon fraser university But play, you must, A tune beyond us, yet ourselves, A tune upon the blue guitar Of things exactly as they are -Wallace Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:21:51 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jennifer Krauel Subject: Re: BDG Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:49 AM 08/24/98 -0700, pamela bedore wrote: >Hello Folks, > >I've been away for a few months, and am completely disorganized as to the >list. Could someone please tell me what book we're reading for September? > The September discussion is about Black Wine, by Candas Jane Dorsey and begins next Monday, Sept. 7. For the complete schedule, see http://www.wenet.net/~lquilter/femsf/bdg/ We're still debating about the October book, Scott's Shadow Man, since the low-price edition is no longer generally available. However, when I last asked if anyone still had trouble finding it, I got no responses. So I'll ask again: have you found a copy of Shadow Man yet? If not, try soon, and if you have trouble, let me know. For the moment, the Shadow Man discussion is still on. Jennifer jkrauel@actioneer.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:28:20 -0300 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Patricia Monk Subject: Re: BDG Question In-Reply-To: <19980824163550081.AAA169@jennifer.actioneer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Jennifer Krauel wrote: > We're still debating about the October book, Scott's Shadow Man, since the low-price edition is no longer generally available. However, when I last asked if anyone still had trouble finding it, I got no responses. So I'll ask again: have you found a copy of Shadow Man yet? Although it hasn't actually arrived yet, I was able to order one from BookExpress at www.bookexpress.com without difficulty early last week, and was told there were 29 other copies in stock. The price of the book is quoted as $7.99 US, which I think must indicate a paperback. ************************************************************** Dr Patricia Monk patmonk@is.dal.ca Department of English Dalhousie University HALIFAX Nova Scotia B3H 2S3 ignorance is curable * stupidity is forever ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Susan Walto Subject: Skolian Genealogy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello. I just got caught up on about a month of digests. I'm in the process of reading Catherine Asaro's Skolian Empire series. I've read Primary Inversion and Catch the Lightening. I'm on the wait list at the library for The Blue Hawk. My question is if anyone has a genealogy for the Skolian/Rhon family. I checked Catherine's web site and found a chronology, but not a genealogy. I thought of sketching it out myself, but I already gave away my copy of Primary Inversion. Susan Walto ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:02:00 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anne Vespry Subject: Re: Slavery Fiction In-Reply-To: <23b420e0.35e0324c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Two fairly recent SF novels that have slavery as a central part of the plot are _Speaking Dreams_ (a Lambda Literary Award nominee) and _Hand of Prophecy_ by Severna Park. Anne Anne Vespry ******* http://www.vex.net/~maverick After Stonewall Bookshop ***** never forget avespry(at) *** only dead fish ollisdotuottawadotca * swim WITH the stream ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:25:25 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Nonviolence and WHITE LOTUS: Jones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Joyce Jones: It's a paean to the possibilities of change of repressive societies through non violent confrontation. I know it worked well for Ghandi and Martin Luther King, but whenever someone suggests to me that feminists should lean more toward these loving methods than toward more angry forms of confrontation it makes me even angrier. The sight of men acting in a meek and loving manner draws attention, women are taken for granted in that guise. Yes, but "nonviolence" doesn't by any means require meekness, timidity, or even agreeableness. Nonviolent people are usually angry; they just hope to take the moral high ground, particularly when outgunned (i. e. violence would not only be degrading, but pointless). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:50:58 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Phoebe Wray Subject: Re: Nonviolence and WHITE LOTUS: Jones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 2:27:55 AM, Foxbrick wrote: <> Yes, and a bit more than the "moral high ground." The point is to break the cycle of violence. To confront the violent and win without being violent. Heads get broken, unfortunately, but the lesson is not lost. I'm not sure I agree that nonviolent people are "usually angry." At least in political confrontations, you pretty much have to have worked through the angry stage to be able to present a nonviolent face. Deeply deeply felt anguish, disgust, frustration -- but the anger that can paralyze and distort has to be gone to be an affective nonviolent person. lightly lightly phoebe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:55:55 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Tanya M. Bouwman-Wozencraft" Subject: Re: BDG: Alien Influences discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, I finally got the book from the library and spent all day reading it. (The dishes are still dirty and the laundry hasn't been done, but oh well!) Then I went back and re-read all the posts about AI. Most of what I would have said regarding the book was already said by someone else, so I will try not to repaet. However, this question that was posed at the beginning of the discussion is one that I did want to respond to because I didn't feel it was addressed. At least, not the way I would have. :) In a message dated 98-08-03 13:33:57 EDT, Jenifer wrote: << 1. One of the reviews, listed on the bibliography that Kathleen put together, stated the main theme of this book was the search for freedom. It seemed to me more to be about the boundary between "us" and "other". Do you agree or disagree? What do you think that Rusch was trying to tell us about the "other" in this book? >> I disagree that the book about "us" and "other". I think it is about the search for freedom. It is about the search for freedom from the bonds that abuse places on a person; particularly if that person is a child and the abuse is done during those early years that are so important to a child's psyche. When that abuse is reinforced by a societal abuse (ie. the children's treatment by the "legal" system) the child/person feels "trapped". All of the children had that feeling. Did you notice how many times John and others referred to feeling "trapped". I felt like that word was on every page, even when it wasn't. One of the passages about John even relates how he had a skewed sense of compassion due to the years in prison--how he had come to see the administrator's decision to have his arm treated so that he could do more work as an act of compassion. It reminded me a little of how women who are in abusive relationships will look for the smallest thing to show how "he really does love me". I think the book is primarily about John's search for his freedom from his past and the abuse he suffered both from his parents and from his society. At the end John is finally able to let go of the past and move on into his future. He doesn't feel "trapped" anymore, and because of that he doesn't have to join the other children. (In a side note--did anyone else notice that John, and to the extent we were allowed into their heads, the other children, all had a harder time remembering the abuse of their parents than they did remembering the abuse of the society? It was like there was a big balloon that was the abuse the society had given the children and they would push it aside and it would keep coming up to haunt them, but the underlying cause was harder to get at. There would only be glimpses of it that were quickly shut off. It made me think how powerful the role of a parent is as compared to society.) Thanks to all on this list. You got me really interested in this book, and I know that was one of the reasons I only put it down once. Tanya ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:02:50 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Ines Lassnig Subject: Re: Slave-trading in SF/F In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In view of the on-going discussion about slaves, cannibalism etc, >I've become interested in the treatment of slavery in all its forms in >SF/F. >Can anyone let me have the name(s) of a novel or two treating the >subject? Octavia Butler's "Kindred" might qualify for this. It involves the time travelling of a present day African AMerican woman to the slavery past of her ancestors. IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:11:16 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Kathleen M. Friello" Subject: OT: Waldrop query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apologies for an OT question, but this is the best pool of resources I can find at the moment (since my friend Al is in the country for the month). In Howard Waldrop's story "Why Did?" who is Benjamin? I've been chewing my way through Going Home Again, Waldrop's new book of stories (Buy This Book: buy extra copies for your friends; buy it and send it to your old high-school English teachers-- it will drive them nuts). Now I'm paying for having dodged American lit, at every opportunity. "Why Did?" is the "Little Moron" story, which also appeared in Omni in April 1994. I recognized Lenny, Holden Caulfield, Rhoda Penmark, Elwood P. Dowd & son (probably), and some others (the pinhead girl from Freaks? Sturgeon references?), but Benjamin.... It's driving me crazy. I know I should know this, but I don't. Little help? Anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:32:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Rudy Leon Subject: Re: BDG Question:Shadow man In-Reply-To: <19980824163550081.AAA169@jennifer.actioneer.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just got mine from my local women's bookstore. And I have a copy of Dawn, but I'd rather read Shadow Man Rudy Leon Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Syracuse University releon@syr.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marina Subject: Re: Nonviolence and WHITE LOTUS: Jones In-Reply-To: <23b866f5.35e22098@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think you both are right in some way. The problem with non-violent confrontation is that it does not work well when you have to defend yourself from a violent opponent. Think about this -- what would have happenned if instead of fighting Hitler everyone would just took "higher moral ground" and let him take over the world? Someone had to stop him, and peace talks obviously were not working. Actually, the peace agreements with various governments was pretty much exactly what allowed him to take over most of the Europe. Both Soviet Union and the West kept hoping that if they only negotiated and let him have what he wanted -- Poland, Chechoslovakia, he'd be happy at that and the peace will be preserved. Because "Bad peace is better than a good war" Well, I hate to say this, and a lot of people will hate to hear it, but some peace is not worth preserving. There are things that cannot be put up with because they never go away by themselves. And sometimes, unfortunately, violence is the only solution. The main thing is not to make it the first option on the list. But also not to wait too long. Violence is a necessary evil. It's evil, so it should be avoided, if possible. But it can be necessary, and it's good to remember that there are more important things in this world than peace at any cost. I personally would not go to the gas chamber singing. If you gonna lose your life, you can at least take some of them with you. Marina On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Todd Mason wrote: > Joyce Jones: It's a paean to the possibilities of change of > repressive societies through non violent confrontation. I know it worked > well for Ghandi and Martin Luther King, but whenever someone suggests to me > that feminists should lean more toward these loving methods than toward more > angry forms of confrontation it makes me even angrier. The sight of men > acting in a meek and loving manner draws attention, women are taken for > granted in that guise. > > > Yes, but "nonviolence" doesn't by any means require meekness, timidity, or > even agreeableness. Nonviolent people are usually angry; they just hope to > take the moral high ground, particularly when outgunned (i. e. violence would > not only be degrading, but pointless). > http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society is selling at the time." Naomi Wolf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Frances Green Subject: Re: Slave-trading in SF/F MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ursula Leguin's "Four Ways to Forgiveness" considers the aftermath of slavery, in a black master/white slave context; especially "A Woman's Liberation." (Sorry if it's already been mentioned; I may have missed it.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:11:21 PDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Daniel Krashin Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 24 Aug 1998 to 25 Aug 1998 Content-Type: text/plain Yeah, I have to agree with Marina (I guess it was bound to happen!) Even Gandhi decided to fight the good fight in India, not in South Africa; the government of the time would no doubt have had him killed or jailed in no time at all. A recent example is the Kosovo Albanian leader Ibrahim Rugova, who has practiced nonviolent resistance against the Serbs for many years and now seems to be losing credibility as the young people turn to the armed resistance of the Kosovo Liberation Army. It's also worth noting that in one of the most serious treatments of nonviolence in SF, _Door into Ocean_, the slaughter is immense, and the invaders are turned back mainly because of fear (1) of a higher, interstellar authority (2) of subtle biological warfare by the Sharers Without those two factors, perhaps the Sharers would have been pretty much exterminated... Dan Krashin P.S. Haven't read _White Lotus_ >Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:20:18 -0500 >From: Marina >Subject: Re: Nonviolence and WHITE LOTUS: Jones > >I think you both are right in some way. The problem with non-violent >confrontation is that it does not work well when you have to defend >yourself from a violent opponent. > >Think about this -- what would have happenned if instead of fighting >Hitler everyone would just took "higher moral ground" and let him take >over the world? Someone had to stop him, and peace talks obviously were >not working. Actually, the peace agreements with various governments was >pretty much exactly what allowed him to take over most of the Europe. >Both Soviet Union and the West kept hoping that if they only negotiated >and let him have what he wanted -- Poland, Chechoslovakia, he'd be happy >at that and the peace will be preserved. Because "Bad peace is better >than a good war" > >Well, I hate to say this, and a lot of people will hate to hear it, but >some peace is not worth preserving. There are things that cannot be put >up with because they never go away by themselves. And sometimes, >unfortunately, violence is the only solution. The main thing is not to >make it the first option on the list. But also not to wait too long. > >Violence is a necessary evil. It's evil, so it should be avoided, if >possible. But it can be necessary, and it's good to remember that >there are more important things in this world than peace at any cost. > >I personally would not go to the gas chamber singing. If you gonna lose >your life, you can at least take some of them with you. > >Marina > > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Todd Mason wrote: > >> Joyce Jones: It's a paean to the possibilities of change of >> repressive societies through non violent confrontation. I know it worked >> well for Ghandi and Martin Luther King, but whenever someone suggests to me >> that feminists should lean more toward these loving methods than toward more >> angry forms of confrontation it makes me even angrier. The sight of men >> acting in a meek and loving manner draws attention, women are taken for >> granted in that guise. >> >> >> Yes, but "nonviolence" doesn't by any means require meekness, timidity, or >> even agreeableness. Nonviolent people are usually angry; they just hope to >> take the moral high ground, particularly when outgunned (i. e. violence would >> not only be degrading, but pointless). >> > >http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html > > "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society > is selling at the time." > Naomi Wolf ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:59:13 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joel VanLaven Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 24 Aug 1998 to 25 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <19980826131122.19088.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Daniel Krashin wrote: > It's also worth noting that in one of the most serious treatments of > nonviolence in SF, _Door into Ocean_, the slaughter is immense, and > the invaders are turned back mainly because of fear > (1) of a higher, interstellar authority > (2) of subtle biological warfare by the Sharers Really? I remember it being because the public couldn't stomach mass murder of defenceless pacifists (once they realized what was going on). The violent actions of the "adopted" sharer woman actually help the cause of the militarists by making a bit more credible the idea that they were warring with dangerous beligerents rather than senslessly murdering pacifists. > Without those two factors, perhaps the Sharers would have been > pretty much exterminated... > Dan Krashin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:04:07 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robert Sessions Subject: slavery in sf title Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature"@students.wisc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >of slavery in all its forms in SF/F. >Can anyone let me have the name(s) of a novel or two treating the >subject? Slavery is a strong theme in Severna Park's _Speaking Dreams_ Mass Market Paperback - 256 pages (June 1997) Avon; ISBN: 0380729245 Bob Sessions U. Wisconsin - Madison ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:30:41 -0700 Reply-To: lynnx@mc.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company Subject: Re: slavery in sf title MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heinlein's Citizen of the Galaxy and Farnham's Freehold ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:02:22 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: donna simone Subject: CRONES Update Comments: To: Todd Mason , Sharon Anderson , Robin Reid , Melnjo , Maryelizabeth Hart , Marge Tillman , lilith , lquilter@igc.apc.org, Kathleen M Friello , Katharine Woods , Jessie Stickgold-Sarah , Ines Lassnig , Catherine Asaro , Anthea , AnnyMiddon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Potential New, and Already Established CRONES - I have just posted an article to open discussion on Chapter 2. Lilith will be archiving the existing messages sometime soon, so folks can still review them. If you think we are moving to slowly, let me know. - If anyone is still searching for the text, again let me know. I will help you lay hands on a copy. - The switch to http://www.breakingset.org seems to have cleared all access problems? If am a wrong weigh in. - Excellent quality and frequency of participation to my mind so far. If anyone has any recommendations for sites we ought to link or places to put the word out to further increase participation, please forward them to me. Have I forgotten anything? *furrowed brow* peace, donna donnaneely@earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:54:56 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Kathleen M. Friello" Subject: BDG: Black Wine, additional reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Candace J. Dorsey, Black Wine additional writings and internet information REVIEWS: SF Site review by Alexander von Thorn http://www.sfsite.com/apr98b/blac31.htm Tiptree award comments: http://www.sf3.org/tiptree/1997/index.html Reader reviews on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/book- reviews/0312861818/002-3943275-9826637 Short review by Charlene Brusso for Dazzler (webzine): http://www.redbay.com/dazzler/rrr/cb3/bookrvws.htm Short personal review by Melissa Woo: http://phantom.ehs.uiuc.edu/~melissa/books/black_wine.html Review from "ideasign": http://www.ideasign.com/crowt/blackw.htm Source SF (online bookstore) blurbs: http://www.sourcesf.com/cvrwine2.htm MISC: Awards: 1997 William J. Crawford Memorial Award for first fantasy novel 1998 Tiptree Award (novel) Dorsey Home Page (out of date) http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/dorsey.html Dorsey comments from W.R.I.T.E., 1994 The Writers' Retreat on Interactive Technology & Equipment is a conference for writers, artists, and developers creating new media products and services for the digital publishing industry, hosted by the University of British Columbia. http://www.cstudies.ubc.ca/write/write94/w_cd.html Writer's page for Polestar (Canadian SF information); links & information on Dorsey http://www.baynet.net/~jackl/dorseytxt.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:16:50 +0000 Reply-To: dherald@wic.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Diana Tixier Herald Subject: Re: BDG: Black Wine, additional reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Genreflecting Books of the Week Site http://www.mancon.com/genre/bwv1n1.html#118an After lurking for a several weeks I just had to drop in. -- Happy reading, Di Herald dherald@wic.net see the Genreflecting page at http://www.mancon.com/genre/ Rosenberg's First Law of Reading "Never apologize for your reading tastes." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:41:41 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: OT: Mermaids are not skinny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I read & enjoyed Vonda's MOON & THE SUN. But having both read Elaine Mogran's theorizing on aquatic apes and having attended a senior swim class filled with people my own size range, I have to point out: Aquatic animals have layers of blubber under the skin. That's why fat people are often compared to whales. Even fur-bearing animals like seals also have blubber. Very few land animals do, and those that do show signs of being either water-adapted (like hippos) or swamp-adapted (like pigs). So the Sea Woman would have a thick layer of blubber under her skin, even as you and I and the people in my swimming class. That is, she'd be --- are you ready for this? --- FAT! Let's hear it for us aquatic apes. Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:08:32 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robin Reid Subject: Six Moon Dance/Tepper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MAJOR SPOILER ALERT! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I just got my copy on Friday--I'd pre-ordered it from Amazon.com. It came along with Elizabeth Peters' latest novel (THE APE THAT GUARDS THE BALANCE), and I also had whole bunches of WORK to do, so I was in agony. I started reading it on the weekend (was up VERY late) on Saturday night and couldn't quite finish it (argh), finished it Sunday, and am now on my second reading. All this while getting school materials ready and writing an article. WOW. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. I've not enjoyed her last two novels or so as much as I did the GRASS/STONES/SIDESHOW Trilogy, mostly somehow the characters did not grab me. But this new novel is wonderful! A wonderful "reverse" culture in which the men wear the veils; in which Family Men are guaranteed a unique family line and posterity (inheritance), but in which men must pay a large dowry for a wife and guarantee her the "right" to have a Consort (kind of high level courtesans on the male side) after she has born children. But there is more--the society is one in which one female is born for every two males--because of a virus, or so we are told throughout the novel. But of course, the end reveals something quite different, and that caught me entirely by surprise. There is an indigenous population (similar to that in GRASS) which is "invisible" and provides much of the labor--men are almost superfluous in this culture because of the invisible labor and the gender ratio at birth. On first glance, this culture might have been presented as a feminist utopia: the Hagion, or Hags, are the goddess-based religion. But it's not--and the ending works through it in amazing ways. If anyone has read it, I'd enjoy talking about it at greater length because the ending caught me by surprise the first time. Now that I"m rereading, I see hints all throughout. Robin * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:37:45 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: Six Moon Dance/Tepper In-Reply-To: <199808271808.NAA20115@etsuodt.tamu-commerce.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Re: what's in the spoiler space --- see Lee Killough's A VOICE OUT OF RAMAH, mass market pb, try the used bookstores. Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:04:25 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Kathleen M. Friello" Subject: Re: BDG: Additional readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Request for information: Originally these "additional reading" lists were supposed to include critical writings beyond simple reviews, and therefore were to contain references to published articles and information available on-line. Now, for a variety of reasons, I've scaled back to on-line information only (only Mists of Avon has yielded any significant non-review citations; there was no indication that anyone was interested in the non-web references; these citations are not being archived). Does anyone think that more in-depth references would be of any use or interest? You can send responses directly to me.. Kathleen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: BDG: Additional readings In-Reply-To: <83e28fc8.35e5f409@aol.com>> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Kathleen M. Friello wrote: >(only Mists of Avon has > yielded any significant non-review citations; Mists of Avon .... let me see .... is that Skin So Soft in a spray bottle> ;}> Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:22:10 -0400 Reply-To: asaro@sff.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Catherine Asaro Subject: Re: Catherine Asaro's SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anthea > Two weeks ago I asked for info on Catherine Asaro's books about > the "Skolian Empire" universe. I've now read all three of the books > ("Primary Inversion", "Catch the Lightning", "The Last Hawk"). My > reaction: CA has now joined the three other authors on my fiction > "instant buy" list. > > I've never read as good and readable a description of such a > coherent and internal self-consistent universe. CA's explanations > are understandable (without being patronizing), her writing is > impeccable, her plotting is immaculate, exciting and imaginative, > and her characters are real people who are portrayed "warts and > all" ... [snip] > Anthea, I wanted to thank you for your review. I'm honored you enjoyed the books that much. > I got the impression that there were lots of deliberate loose ends in the > novels - "Primary Inversion" in particular - as teasers for later entries > into the series ... That was true, in particular for Primary Inversion. I would like to tie up the ends more, but to some extent I'm limited by pragmatics. My editor prefers the books don't get too fat because apparently Tor bases the cost of the hardcover at least in part on how thick it is. So the fatter the book, the more expensive the hardcover. If it's too much, sales go down. However, =The Radiant Seas= ties up the loose ends from =Primary Inversion.= =Seas= is a FAT book (which was one reason I was asked to make the books shorter ) and the first draft was even 50% fatter! So to tie up all those ends in Primary Inversion would have made it about the length of a trilogy. In general, though, I do hope to get the ends tied up more in future books. =The Radiant Seas= leaves a few loose ends in regards to some of the more minor characters, but it takes entire books to tie up their stories, and they weren't the central characters in this book, so I hope that will go over better! =Seas= is a big epic, with many characters and events. It covers the same period of time as =The Last Hawk= and tells what happens in the rest of the galaxy while Kelric is a prisoner on Coba (and =a lot= happens! ). It's funny about =Primary Inversion.= When I wrote it, I thought I had tied everything up nicely. But as soon as it came out, readers started saying,"What happens next?!!?" I realized then that it felt to me that I had tied up the loose ends because I already knew what happened. > All in all, though I found Catherine Asaro's books among the best > SF I've read. My own patriarch, who's a fanatic fan of J C Cherryh, > found CA's books highly enjoyable as have several older women friends. I'm delighted they enjoyed them! > The really irritating thing is there are only 3 books (a fourth is due in > November) in the series which left me hankering for more. Tor just bought three more of the Ruby Dynasty/Skolian books. =Ascendant Sun= will probably come out next year. It tells what happens to the character Kelric after he leaves Coba at the end of =The Last Hawk.= =Spherical Harmonic= is about Kelric's aunt, and the third novel, =The Quantum Rose= is about one of his brothers. The December issue of =Analog= also has one of my novellas in it, another Ruby Dynasty story. This one is about Soz when she was younger. Thanks for you interest. :-) Best regards Catherine Asaro http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:38:37 -0400 Reply-To: asaro@sff.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Catherine Asaro Subject: Re: Skolian Genealogy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan Walto > Hello. I just got caught up on about a month of digests. I'm in the > process of reading Catherine Asaro's Skolian Empire series. I've read > Primary Inversion and Catch the Lightening. I'm on the wait list at the > library for The Blue Hawk. My question is if anyone has a genealogy for > the Skolian/Rhon family. I checked Catherine's web site and found a > chronology, but not a genealogy. I thought of sketching it out myself, but > I already gave away my copy of Primary Inversion. Hi, Susan. There is a family tree in the back of =The Last Hawk= with the genealogy. It has a few minor mistakesx, but for the most part it gives everything. In =The Radiant Seas= I have two family trees, one for the Ruby Dynasty (The Skolias) and the other for the Qox Dynasty (the Traders). Parts of =The Radiant Seas= are told through the viewpoint of Jaibriol Qox's parents, and also some of their slaves, so it goes more into the culture of the Eubian civilization. The trees in =Seas= also indicate which characters have their stories in which book (eg, the entry for Kelric also =The Last Hawk= and =Light and Shadow= as telling his story). I will eventually put up the family trees on my web site, now that I finally have my scanner working. I'm so far behind, though, that I hesitate to say when. I'm still trying to find time to put up the many excellent comments I got for the cover of =The Radiant Seas.= I'm also intending to put up some chapters to =Seas,= as soon as I get the okay from my publisher. (Publishers are getting more savvy to the web and putting in clauses in our contracts about electronic rights.) If you have any questions in particular, however, I would be happy to answer them here. Thanks for your interest! :-) Best regards Catherine Asaro http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:17:06 -0400 Reply-To: asaro@sff.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Catherine Asaro Subject: Re: Slavery Fiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Re the discussion about the themes of slavery in science fiction: my books also deal with it. In part, that came out of my work as a counselor. In reading the material for our training, I was struck over and over again by the lack of compassion shown by abusers toward those they abuse. These people seemed to have no capacity for empathy. I extrapolated that to an extreme in my books, creating a race of anti-empaths. In fact, they turned out so evil that it took me a few books before I could make myself write about them (The Last Hawk was actually the first book I wrote, though I sent it to Tor third, so it was the third published). The Trader Aristos keep slaves because they don't consider anyone different from themselves human. In =The Radiant Seas,= the Imperator of Ruby Dynasty (Kurj) realizes his near obsession with destroying the Trader empire comes from the realization that for him, the war between his empire and the Trader empire echoes, on an interstellar scale, the abusive relationship between his mother and his first stepfather. Best regards Catherine Asaro http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:30:01 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Kathleen M. Friello" Subject: Re: BDG: Additional readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-27 20:59:25 EDT, you write: << Mists of Avon .... let me see .... is that Skin So Soft in a spray bottle> ;}> >> As I said before, my friend Al is in the country... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Frances Green Subject: Re: Six Moon Dance/Tepper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rereading and enjoying her skill at hinting and foreshadowing is a major pleasure with Tepper's work. I haven't had time for a second reading yet, and my first was a tad disrupted by some other stuff that was going on, but I am looking forward to the next go-round very much! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:07:00 +0000 Reply-To: chuard@earthlink.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Comments: Authenticated sender is From: geminiwalker Subject: Introduction...Gemini Walker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Just a quick hello, have just started reading my first Tepper novel, Gibbon's Decline and Fall, recommended to me by a former co-worker. I don't want to discuss it too deeply just yet and spoil it all, but just to let you know that I am an avid and compulsive reader who has a penchant for writing political diatribes and would like to develop it into the art of FeministSF. I know I have a long way to go, but I'm glad there are at least footsteps to follow. I am 45, mother of two adult children, a 21 year old son and a 25 year old daughter, I am divorced three times, the last time in oh ... 1982, with no plans to ever marry again. I came out as a lesbian in 1987, have done lots of clerical work in lots of government funded feminist agencies (an oxymoron, if you ask me), and am currently working at home and happily supported by my lover of three years. I am seven years pot free and three years sober, it has made a bigger difference in my life than I ever would have thought. Um...let's see. I am the firstborn of seven children, grew up in the military with an alcoholic father and a typically co-alcoholic mother. If that isn't food for science fiction, I don't know what is! Glad to meet you all, looking forward to getting to know the list. ...geminiwalker chuard@earthlink.net Join "Outsiders" (http://Outsiders.listbot.com) the mailist For Those Who Walk Alone... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:26:28 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Frances Green Subject: Re: Introduction...Gemini Walker Comments: To: chuard@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome from a Tepper junkie: and may I recommend "Grass" and "Gate to Women's Country" for the top of your list after "Gibbon"? "Grass" is probably her best book, considered as a novel, and I love it, though it's not my top choice for the title to grab as I flee the burning building if I could only take one. If you get majorly hooked, you should be aware she also writes mysteries under the names of A.J. Orde and B.J. Oliphant. Enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:24:48 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cyndi Miller Subject: Re: Introduction...Gemini Walker In-Reply-To: <19980828.182629.-358665.0.jjggww@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really think Tepper just keeps getting better. I just finished The Family Tree, which is incredible. Cyndi PS - welcome Gemini :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:23:48 +0000 Reply-To: dherald@wic.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Diana Tixier Herald Subject: Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought I should send an introduction. I have been lurking for a few weeks but had to break down and post a few days ago so it must be time. I'm a free lance librarian, writer, and lecturer in my professional life. In my private life I've been married for close to a quarter of a century to my best friend. We just found out tonight that we will be grandparents in April. Our married son is 22 and our daughter is 19. We've also been foster parents to 30 some kids, all teenagers. I've had a passion for fiction since I figured out how to read 41 years ago when I was 3. While I love most fiction genres, sf and fantasy are very near and dear to me. Following up on the Tepper thread, I loved Gate to Women's Country, Grass, and Raising the Stones but then I got a little bored with her work. The characters stopped coming to life for me. I know I read a few of her more recent works but I don't even remember the titles. It was exciting to hear comments on this list that speak highly of her latest book. I'll have to look at it and add it to my TBR room. -- Happy reading, Di Herald dherald@wic.net see the Genreflecting page at http://www.mancon.com/genre/ Rosenberg's First Law of Reading "Never apologize for your reading tastes."