Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG9808E" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:49:55 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Stephanie Jackson Subject: Re: Six Moon Dance/Tepper In-Reply-To: <199808271808.NAA20115@etsuodt.tamu-commerce.edu> from "Robin Reid" at Aug 27, 98 01:08:32 pm Content-Type: text > > MAJOR SPOILER ALERT! > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * [Major snip. ;) Sorry.] I, as well, just finished Six Moon Dance, about ten minutes ago, and I have to say, I'm disappointed. From the start, the characters didn't grab me, the plot seemed forced, and the ending too sudden. On top of that, I had trouble following it as it swit ched from POV to POV. I may be biased, since I've also read some excellent books this week (Halfway Human and Primary Inversion, namely), both of which caught my imagination immediately and wouldn't let it go. I nearly went to work on an hour of sleep j ust so I could finish Primary Inversion. I have to say that Tepper's other works caught my interest much more quickly. Lately, it seems that her works simply haven't called to me, though I truly enjoyed Gibbon's Decline and Fall. As for discussing SMD, I'd be happy to. -Stephanie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:40:56 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joyce Jones Subject: Welcome Gemini , Tepper novels Welcome Gemini, I also am a Gemini. Once when I was working in a restaurant the owner told me she'd never met a Gemini who wasn't an alcoholic. I had never met a restaurant owner who wasn't an alcoholic. She was, I wasn't. But I come from a long line of them. As for Tepper, I read Beauty a few years ago and didn't realize she had such a following. I loved her unique style. After getting on this list I bought 4 more, just this month finished The Gate To Women's Country. What a great idea, I'm ready to move there. I gave my daughter Family Tree. She finished it a couple of days ago and said it was a good story, but not very well written. What? Well, now I have to read it and find out what her problem was. She did like Beauty, though not as much as I. Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:18:42 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Robin Reid Subject: Six Moon Dance/Tepper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is one message totalling 43 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Six Moon Dance/Tepper ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > MAJOR SPOILER ALERT! > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * Stephanie said: "I, as well, just finished Six Moon Dance, about ten minutes ago, and I have to say, I'm disappointed. From the start, the characters didn't grab me, the plot seemed forced, and the ending too sudden." I'm about 3/4 through on my second reading, and what strikes me now is the amazingly deft way that Tepper did build in foreshadowing and hints at a LOT of things that come out in the "sudden ending" that I didn't really notice the first time through, especially in the first, oh, third, of the book. I agree there's a lot of POV shifting, but she tends to do that in her SF, and I guess I am used to her conventions now. My rereading is showing that there are some beautifully woven connections between the "different" chapters even though they seem to randomly/suddenly switch. Unfortunately my book is at home and I'm at work, so I cannot quote them. "On top of that, I had trouble following it as it switched from POV to POV. I may be biased, since I've also read some excellent books this week (Halfway Human and Primary Inversion, namely), both of which caught my imagination immediately and wouldn't let it go. I nearly went to work on an hour of sleep just so I could finish Primary Inversion." Interestingly enough I've recently read PRIMARY INVERSION and THE LAST HAWK (OK I only read half of it, and then Tepper came, and blush)....I agree with what you say about PI. It totally caught my attention and I read it in one swift rush totally drawn up into it all. TLH didn't grab me as much--I'm intellectually interested in the gender reversal in the culture (similar in theory to Tepper's), but the characters don't grab me as much, and again, things happened so fast. I'm not through yet so it's not fair to judge, but that novel is a multiple viewpoints narrative whereas PI is a single narrator, and I loved the narrator. I thought Asaro does a wonderful job of having the more experienced narrator 'recreating' that younger point of view. "I have to say that Tepper's other works caught my interest much more quickly. Lately, it seems that her works simply haven't called to me, though I truly enjoyed Gibbon's Decline and Fall. As for discussing SMD, I'd be happy to." I had thought that about her two or three novels before this (Gibbon's and Family Tree at least)--I LOVED her trilogy Grass/Raising the Stones/Sideshow (though Sideshow has some of the same technical aspects of SMD that make multiple readings very useful). But then I was less impressed, but this novel totally grabbed me all over again and kept me up late cursing that I was too sleepy to finish and then made me "dream" about it. Recently I reread the three MAVIN and the three MARIANNE books and found those still very wonderful--for me, Tepper does a bit better when she creates other cultures rather than try to write about specifically fairly close Earth futures, if that makes any sense! Robin ------------------------------ End of FEMINISTSF Digest - 28 Aug 1998 to 29 Aug 1998 ***************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:13:30 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Heather MacLean Subject: Nalo Hopkinson, _Brown Girl in the Ring_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nalo (if you're still on this list!)-- Just read your book; can't get the rythms out of my head. Thanks for sharing: it was wonderful. Gender pugilism. =) And amazing how so many cultures can be blended, yet remain distinct... Heather =) __________________________________________ "Output of your job hmaclean: > Reality is only a question of language. Unknown command - "REALITY". Try HELP." -------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:08:23 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: SIX MOON DANCE (spoilers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I very much enjoyed SIX MOON DANCE. I felt like she came out of a period of less than her best work with GIBBON'S ... and that SIX MOON DNACE may be my favorite of her SF works since GATE or GRASS. S P O I L E R S P A C E The thing I liked most about it was the sort of spiritual element, and the positive sexual energy, [sex saves the planet -- who would have expected that?] as well as the gender twist regarding the trapped being. E N D S P O I L E R Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:10:07 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Subject: OT reading recommendations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two non SF books which might be of interest to members of this list: BLUE by Abigail Padgett (just out) THE WOMAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH by B. Reece Johnson (out soon) Maryelizabeth Mysterious Galaxy 619-268-4747 3904 Convoy St, #107 800-811-4747 San Diego, CA 92111 619-268-4775 FAX http://www.mystgalaxy.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:26:53 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jennifer Krauel Subject: BDG: Black Wine discussion begins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow. I really enjoyed reading this. In fact I waited too long to begin, and then resented having to read it faster than I wanted. I wanted the luxury of reading slowly, then re-reading parts just for the physical pleasure of the words. So I'm not going to try to be objective about this one. I think we have a book here that passes the test of "feminist", by any of the definitions we came up with. But there's still plenty to discuss, so let's have at it! Unfortunately I just barely finished the book, late last night, and haven't had enough time to ruminate over it in general. Much about this book reminded me of Le Guin - the spare poetic style that turns out to be far denser than it initially appears, the astonishing detail of characters, the focus on mundane life with only glimpses of fantasy or s-f to remind you it's not your average novel. But I'm no literary critic, so you may have as many reasons why Dorsey's style is different from Le Guin's. Here are some questions off the top of my head, but of course don't limit yourselves to this: How soon did you figure out the different voices didn't necessarily come from different characters? I figured this out before I could say which were the same. What was the purpose of including the Carrier in this story? Didn't you just love the image of the bickering characters on her breasts? Why did Ea disappear again near the end, just wandering off? Was she just no longer needed? What did you think of the very ending chapter, "The new wood"? Jennifer jkrauel@actioneer.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:20:05 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jennifer Krauel Subject: BDG: Black Wine, another question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just looked at the on-line reviews from Kathleen's bibliography and remembered another question I had while reading the book. Just before Essa catches the airship she witnesses a riot and massacre. What was it about? It's student-based, and the slogans include "climb the remarkable mountains" for example. It seems quite different from the riot in the "zone of control" but I'm not sure about that either. What role do these scenes of struggle/mass destruction play in the story? Also I noticed our group's effect on Amazon: when I did a search on Black Wine to read the reviews, it helpfully informed me that people who purchased Black Wine also purchased Halfway Human and Alien Influences. Random selection of books? I don't think so. Jennifer jkrauel@actioneer.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:05:42 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Frances Green Subject: Re: Welcome Gemini , Tepper novels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please let us know. Other than the very occasional nitpicky difference of opinion over a word usage, I can't imagine what Tepper has produced that could be described as "not very well written". Her style is for me a very positive pleasure. But always interested in a new perception. I know many object to her didactic moments, but I don't know if that's the problem your daughter has. And when she includes verse, it not only scans, but is usually poetry too. > I gave my daughter Family Tree. She >finished it a couple of days ago and said it was a good story, but not >very >well written. What? Well, now I have to read it and find out what >her >problem was. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:39:40 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Rudy Leon Subject: Re: BDG: Black Wine, another question In-Reply-To: <19980831213423905.AAA222@jennifer.actioneer.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had a very long and painful day, but I thought I would throw my hazy woozy .02 in (really. 2 cents only), and more coherent thoughts later. At 02:20 PM 8/31/98 -0700, J. Krauel wrote: >catches the airship she witnesses a riot and massacre. What was it about? >It's student-based, and the slogans include "climb the remarkable >mountains" for example. This riot reminded me enormously of Lessing's Marriages of Zones 3, 4, 5 wherein the people of the various zones had been forbidden ages ago (literally) to look outside of their zones; in fact, to forget there existed an outside except in the most necessary forms. The marriages seem to be about reintegrating the Zones and furthering their potential and growth. Since so much of Black Wine was about the journey up/to/through the mountain, and how radical (uncommon?) an idea it was, I didn't even stop to wonder and inserted the whole Lessing scenario unconsciously. Now I've returned the book, and I read it about a month ago, and I'm eager to hear what y'all have to say tomorrow when my brain will be working today. I love that we are affecting Amazon.com; I wonder what else we are affecting. Is there anyone willing to tell us if we are legion? > >Also I noticed our group's effect on Amazon: when I did a search on Black >Wine to read the reviews, it helpfully informed me that people who >purchased Black Wine also purchased Halfway Human and Alien Influences. >Random selection of books? I don't think so. > >Jennifer >jkrauel@actioneer.com > > Rudy Leon Ph.D. candidate Department of Religion Syracuse University releon@syr.edu