Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG9901E"

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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:13:10 -0600
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From:         Marina <my0203@BRONCHO.UCOK.EDU>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
In-Reply-To:  <36B05A87BE.1309CATWEASEL@send.mail.u-net.com>
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On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Catweasel wrote:

> Boredom is a state of
> rest, a natural state which a few of us do our utmost to rise above.
> Not me, mind.  It is my natural inclination to do as little as possible
> for as long as possible, thereby forcing the issue.  This, too, can lead
> to an interesting life.

I don't know if I would equate rest with boredom.  IMHO, rest is a way to
regain your strength so you won't drop dead during another of life's
adventures.  Boredom is something else -- it's when you burn the
energy with nowhere to apply it.  It can be more tiring than actually
doing something, at least because the time goes by a lot slower.  Besides,
rest is usually pleasant, while boredom is not.  I never get bored when I
sleep, or relax in hot tub, or even stare at TV screen when I have no
strength left for anything else.

I think boredom is more like running a car engine with the parking
brakes on.  It's up and running but it's not going anywhere.  Which might
be the problem with people who became content with their lives by avoiding
anything that could upset the safe, familiar routine.  it might protect
them from getting hurt, but it also makes them feel that they had seen
everything by the age of 70, or even 30.  You can't get into an accident
with your brakes on, but the safety of the garage might eventually make
you see even death as a welcome change of landscape.  Which is what the
arguments against living forever often sound like to me.

That episode of X-Files about the immortal photographer, I think, was a
good illustration of that.  The guy seemed like the type who got tired of
living before he hit forty, so living forever was just an excuse for his
misery.

IMHO,
Marina

http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html

                "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society
                        is selling at the time."
                                                Naomi Wolf
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:13:08 -0500
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From:         Suzanne Feldman <feldsipe@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      ONLINE SF CONVENTION SATURDAY 1/30
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Hi folks--
Dozens of fabulous SF luminaries (including me!) are going to be on
panels and doing discussions for the 'EOSCON 2'  on Saturday, Jan. 30
(tomorrow) from 1-5 pm eastern. Like other SF cons there will be
scintillating conversations, chats with authors and so on...unlike other
cons, you don't need to fly or drive or make a hotel reservation, or get
all anxious over your costume---personally, I'll be attending in my
pajamas.

It was a great time last year. For those who'd like to be there when the
pearls of wisdom spill from my keyboard, (or just to visualize me in my
pj's <g>) I'll be on two panels: =SF/F on the Net= from 3-4 pm, and =The
Professional Experience= from 4-5pm.

I believe this is the entry site:

http://www.e-horizon.com/eoscon2/

If it's not, I'll post again this afternoon.
I hope to see y'all there!

Yours,
Suze/Severna
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:30:15 -0600
Reply-To:     Olivia North Given <ogiven@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
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From:         Olivia North Given <ogiven@VERTEX.UCLS.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
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> That episode of X-Files about the immortal photographer, I think, was a
> good illustration of that.  The guy seemed like the type who got tired of
> living before he hit forty, so living forever was just an excuse for his
> misery.

i agree that whether or not (or how soon) you'd become a disgruntled
immortal would probably depend a lot on your particular "zest for life",
and whether or not you possess it in abundance.

but i think one thing that would have to bewilder you and get you down
would be the forgetting.......i think this was talked about in the last
immortality thread.  but <am i imagining this?> wasn't there one point
where the x-files guy was like, "i went to city hall to look up my wife's
name, because i forgot it."??  bummer.

> Concerning the guy from the X-files, I think if one spends eternity
> taking pictures of people dying, that would make even a mortal person
> want to cut their presence in this world short.  Even one exposure to
> violent death usually shakes people up pretty badly.  To me, this was
> the main reason wny he wanted to die -- it must be pretty frustrating to
> know in advance of everyone's death and being unable to do anything
> about it.

i got the impression that he was taking pictures of death (in order to
"catch death" or "look death in the eye") *because* he was such a
miserable wretch, not the other way around (that he was a miserable wretch
because he went around taking pictures of death).

maybe it was a little bit of both.

Olivia

"Being can take the place of Having"


On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Marina wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Catweasel wrote:
>
> > Boredom is a state of
> > rest, a natural state which a few of us do our utmost to rise above.
> > Not me, mind.  It is my natural inclination to do as little as possible
> > for as long as possible, thereby forcing the issue.  This, too, can lead
> > to an interesting life.
>
> I don't know if I would equate rest with boredom.  IMHO, rest is a way to
> regain your strength so you won't drop dead during another of life's
> adventures.  Boredom is something else -- it's when you burn the
> energy with nowhere to apply it.  It can be more tiring than actually
> doing something, at least because the time goes by a lot slower.  Besides,
> rest is usually pleasant, while boredom is not.  I never get bored when I
> sleep, or relax in hot tub, or even stare at TV screen when I have no
> strength left for anything else.
>
> I think boredom is more like running a car engine with the parking
> brakes on.  It's up and running but it's not going anywhere.  Which might
> be the problem with people who became content with their lives by avoiding
> anything that could upset the safe, familiar routine.  it might protect
> them from getting hurt, but it also makes them feel that they had seen
> everything by the age of 70, or even 30.  You can't get into an accident
> with your brakes on, but the safety of the garage might eventually make
> you see even death as a welcome change of landscape.  Which is what the
> arguments against living forever often sound like to me.
>
> That episode of X-Files about the immortal photographer, I think, was a
> good illustration of that.  The guy seemed like the type who got tired of
> living before he hit forty, so living forever was just an excuse for his
> misery.
>
> IMHO,
> Marina
>
> http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html
>
>                 "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society
>                         is selling at the time."
>                                                 Naomi Wolf
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:19:56 -0000
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From:         Lesley Hall <lesleyah@PRIMEX.CO.UK>
Subject:      Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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For the benefit of a friend of mine who will be going to Chicago later =
this year, any information on the above would be very gratefully =
received.
Thanks
Lesley
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>For the benefit of a friend of mine =
who will be=20
going to Chicago later this year, any information on the above would be =
very=20
gratefully received.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lesley</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Lesley Hall<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:lesleyah@primex.co.uk">lesleyah@primex.co.uk</A></FONT></D=
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:54:44 -0600
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From:         Marina <my0203@BRONCHO.UCOK.EDU>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
Comments: To: Olivia North Given <ogiven@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.SOL.3.96.990129101711.21803G-100000@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
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On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Olivia North Given wrote:

> but i think one thing that would have to bewilder you and get you down
> would be the forgetting.......i think this was talked about in the last
> immortality thread.  but <am i imagining this?> wasn't there one point
> where the x-files guy was like, "i went to city hall to look up my wife's
> name, because i forgot it."??  bummer.

yeah, that would not be a happy experience.  On the other side, I think
one can forget people after not seeing them for twenty years, or even for
five.  Even the strongest feelings tend to wear down, which is
fortunate, cause otherwise we would never be able to cope with loss. i
think it's rather good than bad.  If you don't remember people, you won't
miss them that much.

> i got the impression that he was taking pictures of death (in order to
> "catch death" or "look death in the eye") *because* he was such a
> miserable wretch, not the other way around (that he was a miserable wretch
> because he went around taking pictures of death).

well, for what I understood, he tried to take a picture of Death in order
to die.  He only started to do that when they invented photography.
However, he could tell who was going to die even before.  i think
that was what made him so miserable -- knowing that other people were
going to die and he could not.

In any case, I think his main problem was sticking around in New York (or
whatever was that Big Bad City) for two hundred years, going around
looking for almost-dead people.  I think that was a pretty masochistic
thing to do. I mean, if that's the only way he could think of using
immortality, he'd be probably better off dead indeed.

Life is what you make of it, including the eternal life, in my opinion.
And I think that spending it going around looking for death is kind of
pathetic.

By the way, I've heard some "big exposure" X-File episode is coming up in
two weeks.  they promised to tell who is the Sigarette Smoking Man, what
happened to Mulder's sister, and all that stuff.  I wonder if it means
they are cancelling the series, or is it just another "season's grand
finale"?  Does anyone know?

Marina

http://members.aol.com/Lotaryn/index.html

                "Femininity is code for femaleness plus whatever society
                        is selling at the time."
                                                Naomi Wolf
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:22:07 -0800
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From:         Sophia Hegner <shegner@MAIL.SDSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.A41.4.03.9901291431240.16092-100000@broncho.ucok.edu>
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>By the way, I've heard some "big exposure" X-File episode is coming up in
>two weeks.  they promised to tell who is the Sigarette Smoking Man, what
>happened to Mulder's sister, and all that stuff.  I wonder if it means
>they are cancelling the series, or is it just another "season's grand
>finale"?  Does anyone know?
>
>Marina

I just heard on the news that Gillian Anderson said that next year will be
their last... I also heard there's going to be a Krichek (sp?)  spin off.

Sophia
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:31:07 EST
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From:         Ildiko Paulovitch <IldikoPaul@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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I know of one wonderful shop in Chicago, Stars Our Destination.  Don't have
the address on hand, sorry.  ildiko
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:53:02 -0800
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From:         Freddie Baer <fbaer@WESTED.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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Stars Our Destination
1021 W. Belmont Ave, Chicago, IL, 60657
Voice (773) 871-2722 Fax (773) 871-6816
Email: stars@sfbooks.com
Hours: Monday to Saturday 11AM - 9PM; Sunday 12-6PM

About a block from one of the Chicago elevated train stops; really
easy to get to.


http://www.sfbooks.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:40 -0500
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From:         Suzanne Feldman <feldsipe@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: X-Files
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> I just heard on the news that Gillian Anderson said that next year will be
> their last... I also heard there's going to be a Krichek (sp?)  spin off.
>
> Sophia

Krichek?! I don't wanna watch a show about rat-boy!
Suze
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:27:54 -0800
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From:         Sophia Hegner <shegner@MAIL.SDSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: X-Files
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At 05:10 PM 1/29/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> I just heard on the news that Gillian Anderson said that next year will be
>> their last... I also heard there's going to be a Krichek (sp?)  spin off.
>>
>> Sophia
>
>Krichek?! I don't wanna watch a show about rat-boy!
>Suze
>

I agree! The news referred to him as "rogue agent Krichek." Pul-leeease.
Trying to make him sound all cool.

Sophia
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Date:         Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:04:59 EST
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From:         "H.H. Thompson" <Sylkenn@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
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In a message dated 99-01-29 11:39:42 EST, ogiven@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu
writes:

<< > That episode of X-Files about the immortal photographer, I think, was a
 > good illustration of that.  The guy seemed like the type who got tired of
 > living before he hit forty, so living forever was just an excuse for his
 > misery.

 i agree that whether or not (or how soon) you'd become a disgruntled
 immortal would probably depend a lot on your particular "zest for life",
 and whether or not you possess it in abundance.
  >>

Delurking momentarily...

I had the idea that perhaps once upon a time it was neat that he couldn't
die, but can you imagine knowing that someone was about to die and being
powerless to stop it?  When Scully went to intervene on the woman's behalf
and it didn't change the outcome -- I suppose I extrapolated that this man
had undergone perhaps many similar situations.  If that were me, I'd grow
disaffected pretty darn quickly regardless of what meaning life had for me
prior to having this ability.

Okay, I'll scuttle back into anonymity now. :)

Helen
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Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:29:42 +0000
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From:         Edward James <E.F.James@READING.AC.UK>
Subject:      FOUNDATION: THE INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF SCIENCE FICTION
Comments: To: FEM-SF <FEM-SF@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>,
          Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv <SF-LIT@RS8.LOC.GOV>,
          sfra-l@ebbs.english.vt.edu, sfuf@csd.uwm.edu
Comments: cc: Farah Mendlesohn <farah3@mdx.ac.uk>
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Dear All,

This is what we intend to be an annual reminder of the existence of
the Science Fiction Foundation and its journal FOUNDATION (Web-site
below). If you feel like writing an article on any aspect of science
fiction (including film, comics, etc), then do think of us. Get in touch
with us beforehand if you wish (e-mail addresses above), and even look at
our style sheet first (printed in FOUNDATION 73, attached to this
e-mail, and shortly to be available on the Web site), or at a sample
issue. We are an academic journal, but since our inception nearly thirty
years ago we have been happy to contemplate material which does NOT
conform to the usual academic fads, fashions and norms. As long as it is
interesting, new, and (preferably but not necessarily) controversial, we
are interested; from the beginning we have also been publishing criticism,
in the form of articles and reviews, by sf writers.

Ultimately we would like electronic copy (via e-mail, not --after our
experience with viruses -- on disk). If you prefer to start by
sending material on paper, please mail to the Assistant Editor, Dr Farah
Mendlesohn, Middlesex University, White Hart Lane, London N17 8HR, UK.

Hope to hear from you!

All best,

Edward

..............................................................................

Professor Edward James, Dept of History, Faculty of Letters and Social
Sciences, University of Reading, Whiteknights, READING RG6 6AA, UK

Director, Graduate Centre for Medieval Studies

Editor, FOUNDATION: THE INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF SCIENCE FICTION
Director of Studies, MA in Science Fiction: Histories, Texts, Media

http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~lhsjamse/fnd.htm

..............................................................................

	[unintelligible attachment deleted from list archive]


=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:06:45 -0800
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From:         Joyce Jones <hoop5@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject:      immortality again

OK, here's my little push for mortality again.  Those of us who have
children, you know how you look at them when they're 3 months or 3 years
old, all soft and cuddly and innocent and just wish they could stay that
way forever?  Then you know how proud you are of them when they're 15 or
25 and make some major life change or accomplishment?  What a shame it
would have been to have kept them in their innocent infancy and have
missed the wonderful adults they grow into.  I think the same is true with
mortality. No matter how much we love whatever we've made out of life, we
can't possibly know how much else there is.  The only way to know is to go
to that place no one ever returns from and find out.  Maybe it's just
dirt, but maybe it's different planets or being a different sex or a
different race or finally loving everyone and understanding how we're all
connected.

Whatever it is, even if it is just dirt, a part of humanity is facing our
mortality and living in spite of, or because of, it.  To wish, wish, wish
reality were different stunts our potential.  Life is a cycle, whether
we're destined for fertilizer or part of the all -knowing-oneness, our
destiny, the essence of our humanity, is to feel and accept our place in
that cycle. At least that's what I think.

Joyce

Life is the childhood of our immortality. -Goethe (1749-1832)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:15:37 -0600
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From:         Big Yellow Woman <shericks@PEOPLE-LINK.COM>
Subject:      Re: Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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Women and Children First Bookstore (in Chicago)is great! Sorry I don't
know the address.

Susan
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:39:53 EST
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From:         "S.M. Stirling" <JoatSimeon@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
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In a message dated 1/30/99 10:08:30 AM Mountain Standard Time,
hoop5@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes:

>Whatever it is, even if it is just dirt, a part of humanity is facing our
mortality and living in spite of, or because of, it.  To wish, wish, wish
reality were different stunts our potential.  >>

-- well, that's your viewpoint, and if you want to die, that's your privilege.

Myself, I don't want to cease to exist.  Ever.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:41:06 EST
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From:         "S.M. Stirling" <JoatSimeon@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
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PS: the "natural cycle" includes 60% infant mortality, and dying fairly young
of infectious disease.  Not to mention virtually permanent pregnancy or
lactation for women.

I don't notice anyone objecting to our elimination of _those_ 'natural'
features of human life... 8-).
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:09:37 -0700
Reply-To:     camiller@gte.net
Sender:       "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature"
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From:         Cathie Miller <camiller@GTE.NET>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
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re: not wanting to die, my desire to live forever is more in terms of
wanting to create something bigger than myself, that will live on in the
hearts and minds of women and men for centuries to come.  (and i don't
mean i want to birth the next messiah)  i want to do something amazing.
but after many conversations with others, it seems the general opinion
is that it is no longer possible to make those kinds of leaps.  in
memory for a decade or so, maybe, but not for centuries.

soo... i guess i'll have to be content to die in obscurity, like
everyone else.

ain't life grand?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:45:25 -0600
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From:         "D. Stone" <dcs@AMERITECH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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Big Yellow Woman wrote:
>
> Women and Children First Bookstore (in Chicago)is great! Sorry I don't
> know the address.
>

5233 N. Clark Avenue
Chicago
773-769-9299
http://www.womenandchildrenfirst.com/

Also, for a good general independent bookseller with an emphasis on
academic and university presses in all disciplines:

Seminary Co-op Bookstore
5757 S. University Ave (across from U of C quads)
Chicago
773-752-4381
http://www.semcoop.com/
___________________________
dcs@ameritech.net, dcs@cs-g.com
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:40:56 EST
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From:         Beth Brown <Doctorbeth@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: immortality and the x-files
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I just finished watching last week's taped episode of the x-files immortality
episode.

Spoiler alert!


So if I follow this correctly, the immortal guy got that way because the nurse
who died in his place took his place.  Now that he has taken Scully's place,
she is immortal.  Which would explain the character several seasons ago who
could see how people are going to die.  He's the one who told Mulder
"autoerotic asphyxiation is not a bad way to die."  When Scully asked him how
she would die, he said "You don't."

Beth
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Date:         Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:48:45 -0800
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From:         Ann <kmhouse@HALCYON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Chicago bookshop recommendations?
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Don't know if it's still there or if so, if it still has the feminist
emphasis it had six years ago, but Platypus in Evanston, just up scenic
Lakeshore Drive from downtown Chicago, was a great off-beat bookstore.
Plus, there were (as is true of Women and Children First, come to think of
it) great little eateries close by where you could take your just-bought
finds and indulge in the bliss of good food and good books.

The bookstore address is 606 Dempster Street, Evanston - the phone number
*was* (708) 866-8040.

Kathleen

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Lesley Hall wrote:

> For the benefit of a friend of mine who will be going to Chicago later
> this year, any information on the above would be very gratefully
> received.
> Thanks
> Lesley
> Lesley Hall
> lesleyah@primex.co.uk
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:35:47 -0800
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From:         Art McGee <amcgee@IGC.ORG>
Subject:      Movie: Cube
In-Reply-To:  <199901310604.AAA44718@piglet.cc.uic.edu>
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Greetings,

Has anyone here seen this movie? It just came out on video, after a short
run in theaters, and while I liked the concept, I was very disturbed by
the "hidden" racial and gender messages in the movie.

Maybe I've been reading too much bell hooks and need to go out and rob a
liquor store or two, but as a Black man, this movie scared the hell out of
me, and it had little to do with the overt plot.

Kind of reminds me of the first time I saw the movie "Kids" (which is
still the most racist movie I've ever seen, worse than Birth of a Nation).

The only other recent movie that disturbed me as much as "Cube" was "John
Carpenter's Vampires". I wasn't sure whether to shoot John Carpenter or
myself, but after seeing that, I felt the need to do something to atone
for such evil thinking on the parts of men.


Art
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 04:11:20 -0600
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From:         Santanico <trekkie@NLC.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Movie: Cube
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At 01:35 AM 31/01/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Has anyone here seen this movie? It just came out on video, after a short
>run in theaters, and while I liked the concept, I was very disturbed by
>the "hidden" racial and gender messages in the movie.
>
>Maybe I've been reading too much bell hooks and need to go out and rob a
>liquor store or two, but as a Black man, this movie scared the hell out of
>me, and it had little to do with the overt plot.

Oh, dammit. I was quite looking forward to this one (it hasn't premiered
around here yet) and now I learn it contains the same old crud. Sigh...I
mean, I could put up with Nicole DeBoer (Ezri "Ally McTrill" Dax on DS9) for
two hours if it were a really good movie, but...hmmmm...

Well, I think I'll probably go check it out anyway when it premieres, just
to decide for myself, but thanks for the advance warning at any rate.

>Kind of reminds me of the first time I saw the movie "Kids" (which is
>still the most racist movie I've ever seen, worse than Birth of a Nation).

Not to mention sexist. I mean, Jesus! I refuse to believe that the majority
of teenage girls, even the very young (13 and under) ones are stupid enough
to A) go to bed with someone without insisting on a condom (I've talked to
many teenage girls, and without fail, they've all said that they have used,
or plan to use, condoms), and B) go to bed with a slimeball like "Telly" in
the first place. I mean, if the kid community is as close-knit as the film
suggested, wouldn't word have spread about Telly's little hobby (deflowering
virgins)?

Furthermore, wouldn't teenage boys feel insulted to see themselves
invariably portrayed throughout the flick as shallow, unfeeling, ignorant
(check out the ludicrous scene where the boys claim to "not believe in
AIDS". To the best of my knowledge, absolutely _nobody_ really thinks this)
rapists? Yes, that'll give young boys a positive self-image, to know that
society at large sees them this way.

>The only other recent movie that disturbed me as much as "Cube" was "John
>Carpenter's Vampires". I wasn't sure whether to shoot John Carpenter or
>myself, but after seeing that, I felt the need to do something to atone
>for such evil thinking on the parts of men.

Well, I don't know about everyone else here, but shooting John Carpenter
doesn't sound like too bad of a start...;) Must say it's good to hear that
there are men out there who didn't get off immensely on this garbage; most
of the male reviewers on the Web seem to adore it, depressingly enough (and
off the Web, too - Siskel and Ebert, whither your powers of discernment?)

Sant.
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:54:15 -0800
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From:         Joyce Jones <hoop5@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject:      immortality again

S. M. Stirling wrote:

>>- well, that's your viewpoint, and if you want to die, that's your
privilege.

Myself, I don't want to cease to exist.  Ever.<<

Too funny.  I guess that means you think if you don't want to die you won't.
What planet did you say you came from?

Joyce
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:38:55 EST
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From:         "S.M. Stirling" <JoatSimeon@AOL.COM>
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In a message dated 1/31/99 3:11:41 AM Mountain Standard Time,
trekkie@NLC.NET.AU writes:

>Furthermore, wouldn't teenage boys feel insulted to see themselves invariably
portrayed throughout the flick as shallow, unfeeling, ignorant

-- well, most of the teenage boys I knew when I was one _were_ shallow,
unfeeling and ignorant, with brutish attitudes towards sex and girls.

Not all of them, of course.
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:40:56 EST
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In a message dated 1/31/99 9:55:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
hoop5@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes:

>I guess that means you think if you don't want to die you won't. What planet
did you say you came from?

-- the one where they just discovered why cells age, and how to stop it...
8-).

More seriously, I thought we were using the conditional-hypothetical mode
here?  SFnal, that is.
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:59:29 -0800
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From:         Pat <mathews@UNM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Movie: Cube
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On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, S.M. Stirling wrote:

> In a message dated 1/31/99 3:11:41 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> trekkie@NLC.NET.AU writes:
>
> >Furthermore, wouldn't teenage boys feel insulted to see themselves invariably
> portrayed throughout the flick as shallow, unfeeling, ignorant
>
> -- well, most of the teenage boys I knew when I was one _were_ shallow,
> unfeeling and ignorant, with brutish attitudes towards sex and girls.
>
> Not all of them, of course.

        What about the nerdboys? The worst I could ever say about them
was that they didn't consider nerdgirls to be One of Them. Of course,
that was ---
        :} 45 years ago!!>

Patricia (Pat) Mathews
mathews@unm.edu
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:56:12 -0500
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From:         Bertina Miller <bmiller@MEDMAIL.MCG.EDU>
Subject:      Re: immortality again
Comments: To: Cathie Miller <camiller@gte.net>
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Actually your right Cathie, life is grand as well as death! I want to die
in utter obscurity. Certainly dont want to be remembered for what I have
done!;-)

Bertina
bmiller@medmail.mcg.edu


On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Cathie Miller wrote:

> re: not wanting to die, my desire to live forever is more in terms of
> wanting to create something bigger than myself, that will live on in the
> hearts and minds of women and men for centuries to come.  (and i don't
> mean i want to birth the next messiah)  i want to do something amazing.
> but after many conversations with others, it seems the general opinion
> is that it is no longer possible to make those kinds of leaps.  in
> memory for a decade or so, maybe, but not for centuries.
>
> soo... i guess i'll have to be content to die in obscurity, like
> everyone else.
>
> ain't life grand?
>
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:08:30 EST
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In a message dated 1/31/99 1:51:09 PM Mountain Standard Time, mathews@UNM.EDU
writes:

>What about the nerdboys? The worst I could ever say about them was that they
didn't consider nerdgirls to be One of Them. Of course, that was --- :} 45
years ago!!


-- ah, well, I was a bit of a nerd myself... 8-)
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Date:         Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:09:49 EST
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From:         "Demetria M. Shew" <DMadrone@AOL.COM>
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In a message dated 1/31/99 12:56:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bmiller@MEDMAIL.MCG.EDU writes:

<<  to die in obscurity, >>

I have a book of poems by women and one, about an old woman dying, has a line:
"...the basket willow will miss me".

For a woman who lives well to die in obscurity is a little like Columbus
discovering America:  the Natives knew the land was here all along, and the
people, animals, plants and habitat in which we live will notice when we are
gone.

Madrone