From LISTSERV@listserv.uic.edu Fri Aug 25 16:34:42 2000 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:32:37 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University of Illinois at Chicago (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0005A" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:21:19 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: Intro. & Request Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jeez -- don't apologize! It was wonderful! Very thoughtful and thought-provoking. (Just my 2 cents....) -l. > > Sorry about the long response...I lost myself there. > -- joanie bassler > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:07:39 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pike Publishing Subject: Re: Intro. & Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Amen. I found Joanie Bassler's comments very worthwhile, too. Michael Morrison http://www.pikepublishing.org --- "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: > Jeez -- don't apologize! It was wonderful! Very > thoughtful and > thought-provoking. (Just my 2 cents....) > > > > -l. > > > > Sorry about the long response...I lost myself > there. > > -- joanie bassler > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:36:29 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Angela Barclay Subject: Re: Intro. & Request Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Joanie: While you apologized for your lengthy response, I value every (well-written!) word. You've alerted me to the importance of Wiscon and I like your point about the gender of the participants being a non-issue. Every respondent has helped me to put this complex topic in better perspective. I hope YOUR project is going well. Take care, Angela ---------- >From: Joanie Bassler >To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU >Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Intro. & Request >Date: Mon, May 1, 2000, 1:58 AM > > -- joanie bassler ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:59:23 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: F&SF Back Issues Go Online Comments: To: Melissa Holt , Virginia Ely , "follinge@astro.ocis.temple.edu" , Patti Kaiser , Matthew Connors , "srcdilbert@juno.com" , Robert Ivins Comments: cc: "sciencefiction-l@listserv.indiana.edu" , "horror@listserv.indiana.edu" , "bestsuspense@egroups.com" , SF-LIT@RS8.LOC.GOV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Marty Halpern Science Fiction Weekly #158 now on-line has the following information in the "News of the Week" column (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/news.html): ----- F&SF Back Issues Go Online The peanutpress.com Web site is now selling back issues of the award-winning Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, the company announced. Buyers can download electronic versions of the magazine for reading on Palm and Windows CE handheld devices. The first selection of back issues includes all 11 magazines from 1997. The standard issue is available for a price of $3.95, while the annual anniversary double issue will sell for $4.95. The first set of issues contains stories such as "Everything's Eventual" by Stephen King, "Borrowed Light" by Jo Clayton and "The Pipes of Pan" by Brian Stableford. In May, peanutpress.com will release all 1998 issues of F&SF, followed by all 1999 issues within two months. The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction is the original publisher of such SF classics as Stephen King's "Dark Tower," Daniel Keyes's "Flowers for Algernon" and Walter M. Miller's "A Canticle for Leibowitz." ----- -- Marty Halpern Golden Gryphon Press http://www.goldengryphon.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/7/_/423968/_/957287320/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:02:40 0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Re: Ditto on the stats request In-Reply-To: <200004251206.OAA31130@cserv.usf.uni-kassel.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Today, on the SF-Lit list somebody recommended the Locus polls as source for sf demographics. I just checked. They don't have the actual poll results online, only the results of the first two Locus Online Polls&Surveys last year (see http://locusmag.com/1999/Polls/Poll1Details.html and http://locusmag.com/1999/Polls/Poll2Comments2.html). 222 persons participated in the first survey, 33.5% were female (it is stated then: 'This is a significantly higher percentage of female voters than in any Locus magazine poll of the past decade, where the ratio has typically been 72%/28% male to female.') In the second poll 238 people voted, of which 26.1% were female. For both polls they list a lot of more detailed data but do not separate the results for male/female readers. What might be of interest here are the results for the 'Have you read ...?' questions: Vonda McIntyre's The Moon and the Sun (25% yes/67% no) MZB's The Mist of Avalon (33%/56%) Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (60%/32%) (These were the only books by female authors included (22 books total) and the results for Moon and Mist are more at the lower end of the yes range). Jane Yolen's 'Sister Emily's Lightship' (24% yes, 65% no) C.L. Moore's 'Vintage Season' (Kuttner not mentioned!) (49%/40%) Tiptree's 'Women Men Don't See' (43%/46%). The 'real' poll is only published in Locus Magazine (e.g. August 1999). Has anybody on this list read that and can say whether there they list survey results separate for men and women? Petra > On 23 Apr 00, Angela Barclay wrote: > > I would like to ditto Erica's request for (male vs female) stats > about sci > > fi readership . . . number of fem/sf books published or reissued . . > . > > percentage of sci fi works to "other" published . . . as many of us > on the > > list are both interested and/or conducting research. Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:21:33 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Michelle Warner Subject: how do I unsubscribe? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings all. Sorry to send this question on the list. My personal folder with my unsubscribe info got deleted. Again, sorry. ===== Ah, Lesbians. Yummmy. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:25:56 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Zerry Frank Subject: different gender=feminist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not male or female) be considered a feminist work? or would it be defined as something else? tks, Zerry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:12:29 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? In-Reply-To: <20000505212556.21473.qmail@web4103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Feminism is sort-of a circus: chaotic with multiple overlapping rings. Among the varying criteria for feminism might be: (1) advocating for equality among the genders/sexes. therefore a work with a differently-gendered protagonist might or might not be feminist by this criteria (2) a work which examines gender. the differently-gendered protagonist novel would be feminist according to this criteria. but you could run into problems; you could have a work which is anti-feminist (according to criteria 1) but feminist (according to criteria 2). (3) IMO: to be feminist, you either have to be (1) or you can be topical (like (2)) but you can't contradict (1). On Fri, 5 May 2000, Zerry Frank wrote: > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > would it be defined as something else? > tks, > > Zerry > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:19:17 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I vaguely remember when the reading discussion list was still here on this address, there was a book up for discussion or was brought up where there was a world with five genders I believe? It was during a busy time of my college life, so the memory is very hazy at this point...from what I understand exploring gender through science fiction fits this category, am sure others will confirm or correct me on the matter. Jo Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zerry Frank" To: Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > would it be defined as something else? > tks, > > Zerry > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:44:59 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? In-Reply-To: <001c01bfb6df$f54d2860$5c0cf4d8@w95s> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII melissa scott's SHADOW MAN On Fri, 5 May 2000, Jo Ann Rangel wrote: > I vaguely remember when the reading discussion list was still here on this > address, there was a book up for discussion or was brought up where there > was a world with five genders I believe? It was during a busy time of my > college life, so the memory is very hazy at this point...from what I > understand exploring gender through science fiction fits this category, am > sure others will confirm or correct me on the matter. > > Jo Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zerry Frank" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 2:25 PM > Subject: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > > would it be defined as something else? > > tks, > > > > Zerry > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:47:28 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Candioglos, Sandy" Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, it was one of Melissa Scott's books (the first one I read), and the general consensus on the list was that she didn't do a real good job of it; the idea had a LOT of potential that just wasn't lived up to by the book. The title is Shadow Man. -Sandy > -----Original Message----- > From: Jo Ann Rangel [mailto:jobe@SILENT-RUNNING.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 3:19 PM > To: FEMINISTSF@listserv.uic.edu > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > I vaguely remember when the reading discussion list was still > here on this > address, there was a book up for discussion or was brought up > where there > was a world with five genders I believe? It was during a > busy time of my > college life, so the memory is very hazy at this point...from what I > understand exploring gender through science fiction fits this > category, am > sure others will confirm or correct me on the matter. > > Jo Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zerry Frank" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 2:25 PM > Subject: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > > would it be defined as something else? > > tks, > > > > Zerry > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:51:19 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Candioglos, Sandy" Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just realized I should have put a caveat on that; I remember the general consensus on the list being that the book didn't live up to the potential of the ideas, _BUT_ I may be remembering incorrectly, because that's what I feel about the book. :) If there's an archive of the discussion, I'd encourage you to read it and see for yourself; I also remember the discussion being pretty lively on that one. -Sandy > -----Original Message----- > From: Candioglos, Sandy > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 3:47 PM > To: 'For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature' > Subject: RE: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > Yes, it was one of Melissa Scott's books (the first one I > read), and the general consensus on the list was that she > didn't do a real good job of it; the idea had a LOT of > potential that just wasn't lived up to by the book. The > title is Shadow Man. > > -Sandy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jo Ann Rangel [mailto:jobe@SILENT-RUNNING.COM] > > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 3:19 PM > > To: FEMINISTSF@listserv.uic.edu > > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > > > > I vaguely remember when the reading discussion list was still > > here on this > > address, there was a book up for discussion or was brought up > > where there > > was a world with five genders I believe? It was during a > > busy time of my > > college life, so the memory is very hazy at this point...from what I > > understand exploring gender through science fiction fits this > > category, am > > sure others will confirm or correct me on the matter. > > > > Jo Ann > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Zerry Frank" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 2:25 PM > > Subject: [*FSFFU*] different gender=feminist? > > > > > > > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > > > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > > > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > > > would it be defined as something else? > > > tks, > > > > > > Zerry > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > > > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:37:49 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Debbie Notkin Subject: Re: different gender=feminist? In-Reply-To: <001c01bfb6df$f54d2860$5c0cf4d8@w95s> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:19 PM 05/05/2000, Jo Ann Rangel wrote: >I vaguely remember when the reading discussion list was still here on this >address, there was a book up for discussion or was brought up where there >was a world with five genders I believe? It was during a busy time of my >college life, so the memory is very hazy at this point...from what I >understand exploring gender through science fiction fits this category, am >sure others will confirm or correct me on the matter. This would probably be Melissa Scott's SHADOW MAN. > > Just wondering, would a sci-fi novel with a > > transgender or differently-gendered main char. (not > > male or female) be considered a feminist work? or > > would it be defined as something else? Well, that depends. If the whole culture is gendered in some format other than male/female, it's hard to see how this could be a feminist book per se, although it's easy to see how it could be a book about people having the rights and privileges defended by feminism. THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS comes immediately to mind, where feminism is not an issue, but both Genly Ai's and Estraven's options, choices, and freedoms very much are. If the main character is differently gendered, but the world is our world, you could either have a clearly feminist book (i.e., Delany's TRITON, where the main character isn't differently gendered, but his love object is), or not (i.e., CRYGENDER by Thomas T. Thomas, which is--in my opinion--kind of a freak-show book with little or no political content). This is, by the way, one of the reasons the Tiptree Award is a gender exploration award rather than a feminist award. -- Debbie Notkin kith@slip.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:17:09 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: just testing please ignore Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII please ignore this message Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:23:36 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: test 2 - please ignore Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just another test, y'all. Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:35:39 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: from list-mistress - adding banner Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hey i added a banner to the bottom of the messages to tell people how to get off the list, so maybe this will decrease the confusion when people want to get off. let me know if you have ideas about ways to improve the list mgt .... Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.