From LISTSERV@listserv.uic.edu Fri Jan 26 13:40:03 2001 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:58:57 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0009A" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 23:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joyce Jones Organization: Microsoft Corporation Subject: dolphin humor A little dolphin humor on the eve of discussing Tepper's Singer from the Sea http://theonion.com/onion3630/dolphins_evolve_thumbs.html -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 22:49:48 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:29:11 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <51.651011.26e467cc@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 9/3/00 8:49 PM, Christine Ethier at EthierCN@AOL.COM wrote: > I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership > Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the > promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance > Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has > to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first > I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were > the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time > Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? Chris, offhand I can't think of many. There's a classic sf short story written in the 60s about the reincarnation of Jesus Christ as a young woman who stirs up the same kind of trouble the male version did 2000 years ago, but she's offstage the whole time, so it's a pretty weak example. I disremember both title and author, unfortunately. Sorry I can't be of more assistance. -l. -- Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com -------------------------------------------------------------- PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 20:50:37 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dave Samuelson Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------963F27DB73A0D67F82A0A3BC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------963F27DB73A0D67F82A0A3BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a Hindu myth about a great goddess (Cybele?) as the Promised One, and I know in the back of my mind there are a couple of sf stories (probably not novel-length) with such a deliberate reversal of the convention. What about Jeanne d'Arc? "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: > on 9/3/00 8:49 PM, Christine Ethier at EthierCN@AOL.COM wrote: > > > I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership > > Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the > > promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance > > Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has > > to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first > > I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were > > the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time > > Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? > > Chris, offhand I can't think of many. There's a classic sf short story > written in the 60s about the reincarnation of Jesus Christ as a young woman > who stirs up the same kind of trouble the male version did 2000 years ago, > but she's offstage the whole time, so it's a pretty weak example. > > I disremember both title and author, unfortunately. Sorry I can't be of > more assistance. > > -l. > -- > Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) > (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. --------------963F27DB73A0D67F82A0A3BC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="dnsmlsn.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dave Samuelson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dnsmlsn.vcf" begin:vcard n:Samuelson;Dave tel;fax:work: 562-985-2369 home: 949-858-7170 tel;home:949-858-7878 tel;work:562-985-4245 x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:dnsmlsn@csulb.edu fn:Dave Samuelson end:vcard --------------963F27DB73A0D67F82A0A3BC-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 00:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cindy Smith Subject: Re: Promised One >From: Dave Samuelson >Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] promised one >To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU >There's a Hindu myth about a great goddess (Cybele?) as the Promised One, and I >know in the back of my mind there are a couple of sf stories (probably not >novel-length) with such a deliberate reversal of the convention. What about >Jeanne d'Arc? >"Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: >> on 9/3/00 8:49 PM, Christine Ethier at EthierCN@AOL.COM wrote: >> > I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership >> > Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the >> > promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance >> > Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has >> > to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first >> > I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were >> > the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time >> > Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? >> Chris, offhand I can't think of many. There's a classic sf short story >> written in the 60s about the reincarnation of Jesus Christ as a young woman >> who stirs up the same kind of trouble the male version did 2000 years ago, >> but she's offstage the whole time, so it's a pretty weak example. >> I disremember both title and author, unfortunately. Sorry I can't be of >> more assistance. I'm not sure this is specifically related to feminist science fiction and fantasy, but I took a course recently in Women and Religion, and one of the textbooks we used was an excellent collection of stories called: _An Anthology of Sacred Texts By and About Women_ edited by Serinity Young, New York: The Crossroad Publishing Company, 1995. It is copyrighted 1993 by Serinity Young. This book is just what the title says, including stories and myths and fables that are both feminist and anti-feminist with excellent commentaries. The stories are segragated by religion and include a variety of religions including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, texts from the Ancient Near East, Northern European Paganism, Shamanism and Tribal Religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Alternative Religious Movements (I just quoted the major section titles from the table of contents). FWIW, the companion textbook we used in the course was a book edited by Arvind Sharma entitled _Women in World Religions_. This book contains much secondary material about the role of women in various world religions. It is published by the State University of New York Press, 1987. > Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) > (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx > -------------------------------------------------------------- Cindy Smith Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter GO AGAINST THE FLOW! \\ _\\\_ _///_ // A Real Live Catholic in Georgia cms@dragon.com >IXOYE=('> <`)= _<< "Delay not your conversion cms@romancatholic.org// /// \\\ \\ to the LORD, Put it not off cms@5sc.net from day to day" Ecclus/Sira 5:8 -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 01:40:16 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Santanico Subject: Re: promised one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? Hurmmm...Well, I haven't read it (though I'd like to), but there's a book called "The Second Greatest Story Ever Told", by Gorman Bechard, which is about a female, Gen-X version of Christ named Ilona Ann Coggswater. I don't know how serious an SF/F work it is, but it sounds like a lot of fun. There's info on it at Amazon, at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806512636/qid%3D968049372/002-709010 7-9430437 As you can see, it's currently out of print, but according to Bechard it's been optioned for filming, so you'll probably hear a bit more about it as time marches on. Sant. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 13:26:17 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Eike Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <51.651011.26e467cc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There is some kind of fantasy thing called "Raven, Swordsmistress of Chaos". I didn't read the book, so I don't know whether there's much feminism in the story (I don't think so, somehow. Male author.). But I found a description of Raven herself and it sounds a lot like a chosen one (not like a particular nice one, however): "From out of the bonds of slavery there arose a warrior... a warrior feared across all lands, a warrior whose blade was stained with the blood of thousands - man and beast - who smiled as she killed, with hair as gold as summer sun, eyes as blue as the heavens, and a body which invited only love yet dealt bloody, merciless death to her enemies. This was Raven, Swordsmistress of Chaos." (http://www.uq.net.au/~zzmwilco/holdstock/nov_kirk.html) Eike At 22:49 03.09.00 -0400, you wrote: >I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership >Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the >promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance >Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has >to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first >I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were >the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time >Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? > >Chris > >-------------------------------------------------- >This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > >Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 06:14:11 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Candioglos Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just remembered a female "promised one"...kinda. The Elvenbane is the title of the book, by Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey..one of the elements of the story is that humans are enslaved by Elves, and Shana is a halfblood born of a human slave woman and her elven master, and is raised by dragons (who neither elves or humans know exist). The downtrodden humans have a "prophecy" (spread and kept alive by the dragons playing practical jokes) about an "elvenbane" that would come free the humans. Shana ends up fulfilling the "created" prophecy. Reviews here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812511751/o/qid=968073291/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/102-0642165-1078503 There's also apparantly a sequel, called Elvenblood, which I don't think I've read. -Sandy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 13:53:53 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marianne Reddin Aldrich Subject: Re: promised one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I can think of two not previously mentioned (only because I *have* them on my shelves, I am terrible at these sorts of things otherwise). The first is _Only Begotten Daughter_, by James Morrow. Female second incarnation of Christ. However, female second incarnations of a chose one that is strongly identified as Male-with-a-capital-M in our culture sort of seem.... not quite the thing, to me. William Horwood's second Duncton Wood series (_Duncton Tales_, _Duncton Rising_, _Duncton Stone_) have at their center a female mole called Privet - she starts as more of a quest-figure, but the religious overtones of special purpose are strong at the end, strong enough that I would think she qualifies. I can't think off hand of any straightforward 'chosen one' narratives though, other than _Waking the Moon_ by Elizabeth Hand, which was already mentioned, but let me throw in my vote alongside. Marianne > >I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership >Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the >promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance >Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she >has >to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At >first >I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were >the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time >Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? > >Chris _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 12:47:33 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: Promised One MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For further sources: Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood: Our Goddess and Heroine Heritage, Volumes 1 & 2 compiled and edited by Merlin Stone (New Sybylline Books, 1979) Accounts of wise and poweful images of womanhood---as known throughout the ages and all over the world. Easily available from on-line out of print book sources such as AdAll.com at reasonable prices. Hope this helps. Amy > > I'm not sure this is specifically related to feminist science fiction > and fantasy, but I took a course recently in Women and Religion, and > one of the textbooks we used was an excellent collection of stories > called: _An Anthology of Sacred Texts By and About Women_ edited by > Serinity Young, New York: The Crossroad Publishing Company, 1995. It > is copyrighted 1993 by Serinity Young. This book is just what the > title says, including stories and myths and fables that are both > feminist and anti-feminist with excellent commentaries. The stories > are segragated by religion and include a variety of religions > including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, texts from the Ancient Near > East, Northern European Paganism, Shamanism and Tribal Religions, > Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Alternative Religious > Movements (I just quoted the major section titles from the table of > contents). > > FWIW, the companion textbook we used in the course was a book edited > by Arvind Sharma entitled _Women in World Religions_. This book > contains much secondary material about the role of women in various > world religions. It is published by the State University of New York > Press, 1987. > > > Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) > > (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Cindy Smith Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter > GO AGAINST THE FLOW! \\ _\\\_ _///_ // A Real Live Catholic in Georgia > cms@dragon.com >IXOYE=('> <`)= _<< "Delay not your conversion > cms@romancatholic.org// /// \\\ \\ to the LORD, Put it not off > cms@5sc.net from day to day" Ecclus/Sira 5:8 > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:04:21 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What about James Morrow's ONLY BEGOTTEN DAUGHTER? and what was Elizabeth Scarborough's old humorous fantasy where the main character rebels against being the chosen one? Plus James Clemen's WIT'CH series. Off the top of my head... Maryelizabeth Speaking of which, anyone else remember seeing an interview with J.K. Rowling where she said she made Harry Potter male 'cause girls would still read about him, but if she'd made the main character female she didn't believe boys would read the books? -- --- Maryelizabeth Hart Publicity Manager ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:42:00 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: SINGER FROM THE SEA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I liked this a lot, although since I'm already on to the next Tepper (THE FRESCO, due in December) I confess it's not as clear in my head as it might be. A lot of familiar Tepper themes (women and the environment saving the planet from men and war and stupidity). I liked the underground culture a lot. Hope this sparks some discussion! Maryelizabeth -- --- Maryelizabeth Hart Publicity Manager ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:47:04 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: April Goodwin-Smith Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii on 9/3/00 8:49 PM, Christine Ethier at EthierCN@AOL.COM wrote: > I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is > sorta a cross between _Watership Down_ and > _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most > movies and books the promised ones, the ones > prophecies are about are always male. For > instance Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). > If the promised one is female she has to be > protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do > much of anything. At first I though it was a > Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the > books were the promised figure is male are > anti-christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time > Series for instance. ARe there any books > where the chosen one is female? Hi. (I've never been very active in this group, but I've lurked consistently for over a year.) I can think of one "chosen one" who is female, and strong, and extremely decisive and effective on behalf of the cause she is recruited for, but there are no prophecies to herald her arrival: Eddi McCandry in Emma Bull's _War for the Oaks_, 1987, Ace Books, New York, (ISBN 0-441-87073-2). Although this was marketed as a throw-away fantasy book (fairies in Minneapolis), it is a very complex, funny/serious book. With regard to the "chosen one" theme, Eddi does not end up as a religious figure. Anyways - I'm always ready to champion Emma Bull's fiction, and to deprecate her decision to do screen-plays instead. I suppose there is more money there, but it is definitely a loss to SF. Ciao for now, April. ===== "Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things. Well-known fact." Esmerelda Weatherwax. (Pratchett, 1988) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 14:11:11 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft <103234.3341@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: SINGER FROM THE SEA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone, delurking to talk about Tepper -- I liked "Singer ...", but one problem I had with it was that so many generations of women on the planet had just given in and let stuff happen to them. And it''s justified by saying that their ancestors had given up their rights and freedom in order to live "decently" on that planet. Is that realistic? Is that what happened here? Dianne Kraft -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:26:29 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <200009040640.BAA61788@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII likewise james morrow wrote a similar story about jesus' sister ... both books are more satire & religious commentary. On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Santanico wrote: > >ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? > > Hurmmm...Well, I haven't read it (though I'd like to), but there's a book > called "The Second Greatest Story Ever Told", by Gorman Bechard, which is > about a female, Gen-X version of Christ named Ilona Ann Coggswater. I don't > know how serious an SF/F work it is, but it sounds like a lot of fun. > There's info on it at Amazon, at: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806512636/qid%3D968049372/002-709010 > 7-9430437 > > As you can see, it's currently out of print, but according to Bechard it's > been optioned for filming, so you'll probably hear a bit more about it as > time marches on. > > Sant. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:28:30 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <39B3D615.5EC81B2E@mystgalaxy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Also i believe WHITE QUEEN by Jane Yolen might fit in the parameters ... it's actually a duology, right? Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:30:39 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Laura Quilter wrote: > Also i believe WHITE QUEEN by Jane Yolen might fit in the parameters ... > it's actually a duology, right? oops, i think that's WHITE SISTER DARK SISTER. oh i can't remember. the sequel is JENNA ... blah blah blah. i'm too sleep to really do this. also, since someone mentioned SINGER FROM THE SEA, that female character was in fulfillment of a prophecy -- a women's prophecy. > > Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net > > Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Laura J. Mixon-Gould wrote: > > promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance > > Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has > > to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. There's a novel by Suzette Haden Elgin, probably out of print. I think it's called YONDER COMES THE FURTHER END OF TIME. Coyote Jones runs across a female Messiah.> Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 14:15:48 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Candioglos Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laura Quilter wrote: > oops, i think that's WHITE SISTER DARK SISTER. oh i can't remember. the > sequel is JENNA ... blah blah blah. i'm too sleep to really do this. It's "Sister Light, Sister Dark", that I believe you're thinking of...and yes, Jenna is another female "promised one"...I'd forgotten about that one. -Sandy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:43:51 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lydia Lynsdaughter Subject: Singer from the Sea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I enjoyed Singer from the Sea except that sometimes the main character drove me just about crazy. In some ways, she was such a diz-brain! When she was traveling in 'commonfolk' disguise, she kept putting her foot in her mouth (and putting everyone in danger) with remarks about having had dinner with the countess or repeating something that a duke had said to her. When they took her to spy on the 'ritual', they warned her not to make any noise as she would be putting them ALL in danger, and through the whole thing, she struggled and tried to make noise! I kept wanted to scream, 'Get it together, chickie!' I just found those parts really annoying. Lydia ------------------------------------------------------ Get the Latest News at CNN Interactive: http://CNN.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:22:50 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/2000 9:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marseillaise@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << William Horwood's second Duncton Wood series (_Duncton Tales_, _Duncton Rising_, _Duncton Stone_) have at their center a female mole called Privet - she starts as more of a quest-figure, but the religious overtones of special purpose are strong at the end, strong enough that I would think she qualifies. >> That one occured to me after sending the first email. She isn't truly a chosen one, but to degree figures as the Stone Mole of second series. chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:24:19 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/4/2000 1:47:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aprilgoodwinsmith@YAHOO.COM writes: << Anyways - I'm always ready to champion Emma Bull's fiction, and to deprecate her decision to do screen-plays instead. I suppose there is more money there, but it is definitely a loss to SF. Ciao for now, April. >> Have read some of her wonderful short fiction. Will check out the book. Thanks. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 03:34:10 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <200009050500.AAA45178@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT on 9/3/00 8:49 PM, Christine Ethier at EthierCN@AOL.COM wrote: > I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is > sorta a cross between _Watership Down_ and > _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most > movies and books the promised ones, the ones > prophecies are about are always male. For > instance Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). > If the promised one is female she has to be > protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do > much of anything. At first I though it was a > Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the > books were the promised figure is male are > anti-christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time > Series for instance. ARe there any books > where the chosen one is female? How about one of a trinity? In P.C. Hodgell's excellent series Godstalk, Dark of the Moon, & Seeker's Mask the protagonist (Jame) is one of a trinity of mythic chosen ones destined to redeem (or perhaps destroy) their people. It's a basic, Healer, Preserver, Destroyer division, with Jame as destroyer, her older brother as preserver, and a more distant relative as healer. -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:32:01 0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Petra Mayerhofer Subject: Tiptree and best feminist sf of the 90ties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As I've already announced here some time ago, a SF conference in Bremen (Germany) is organized on (among others) the topic feminist SF and utopias for December ( http://www.fortunecity.de/tatooine/metropolis/100/verschiedenes/out -of-this-world.html ). I'm invited as a speaker and intend to talk about the Tiptree award and the feminist sf in the nineties. At the moment I mull over what work(s) to focus on in the second half of my talk. First I thought to simply pick the Tiptree winners I like best. That approach, however, is problematic in several ways: (a) I realized I've read only half of them (in part because of availability, 2 novels I stopped to read after the first pages). (b) In part I like some other feminist sf books at least as well that were only short-listed for the award or not even that. (c) I have problems to 'rank' those winners I've read and liked (and understood, I was impressed by _White Queen_ but wouldn't dare to talk about it). So I introduced a second criterion: translated to German, which leaves _Ammonite_ and _China Mountain Zhang_. (d) That leaves me with the questions (which I also want to pose to the list): Are these books representative? Are any? What work is the best/the highlight of feminist sf of the nineties? What work of the nineties has added the most/something new to the body of work that existed before? These questions reminded me that some months back I discovered a website of an email list on women's literature that had compiled by vote a hot list of the best books by woman authors. And there are other email lists who vote on awards and so (HOMer?). So why not we, too? I'd be interested in such a thing as a one time effort (and ready to organize it). The highlights of feminist sf literature in the nineties! On the one hand that's the topic I'm most interested in at the moment, on the other hand there's already the Tiptree retro award for works from before 1991 and in a report from the last WisCon I've read that some award for the best of the last 30 years or so is planned for the next. What do you think? Petra Petra Mayerhofer mailto:mayerhofer@usf.uni-kassel.de -- BDG website http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:21:40 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have and have read all these and they are remarkably feminist for a fantasy/asventure written by a male author. It has been some years since I read these but I remember enjoying them very much. They're sort of 'gal Conan' yarns---refreshing if your tired of the guy getting all the action and doing all the rescuing. This time a woman gets to be heroic and mouth off the males who question her ability and right to do so! Amy > There is some kind of fantasy thing called "Raven, Swordsmistress of > Chaos". I didn't read the book, so I don't know whether there's much > feminism in the story (I don't think so, somehow. Male author.). But I > found a description of Raven herself and it sounds a lot like a chosen one > (not like a particular nice one, however): > > "From out of the bonds of slavery there arose a warrior... a warrior feared > across all lands, a warrior whose blade was stained with the blood of > thousands - man and beast - who smiled as she killed, with hair as gold as > summer sun, eyes as blue as the heavens, and a body which invited only love > yet dealt bloody, merciless death to her enemies. This was Raven, > Swordsmistress of Chaos." > (http://www.uq.net.au/~zzmwilco/holdstock/nov_kirk.html) > > Eike > > At 22:49 03.09.00 -0400, you wrote: > >I am reading _The Firebringer_ which is sorta a cross between _Watership > >Down_ and _Bambi_, when it occured to me that in most movies and books the > >promised ones, the ones prophecies are about are always male. For instance > >Neo in The Matrix and in Dune (book). If the promised one is female she has > >to protected by male, and she doesn't seem to do much of anything. At first > >I though it was a Christ figure allegory thing, but some of the books were > >the promised figure is male are anti christian, Horwood's Wolves of Time > >Series for instance. ARe there any books where the chosen one is female? > > > >Chris > > > >-------------------------------------------------- > >This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > > >Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:31:00 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The sequel is just as good as the first book and leaves one craving more! Amy > I just remembered a female "promised one"...kinda. The Elvenbane is the title of > the book, by Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey..one of the elements of the story > is that humans are enslaved by Elves, and Shana is a halfblood born of a human > slave woman and her elven master, and is raised by dragons (who neither elves or > humans know exist). The downtrodden humans have a "prophecy" (spread and kept > alive by the dragons playing practical jokes) about an "elvenbane" that would > come free the humans. Shana ends up fulfilling the "created" prophecy. Reviews > here: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812511751/o/qid=968073291/sr=8-1/ref =aps_sr_b_1_3/102-0642165-1078503 > > There's also apparantly a sequel, called Elvenblood, which I don't think I've > read. > > -Sandy > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:21:06 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elgin is a wonderful writer----I recommend anything by her---feminist but fun books for the most part except her Native tongue trilogy which is much darker (a la the Handmaid's tale but different type of oppression). Amy > > There's a novel by Suzette Haden Elgin, probably out of > print. I think it's called YONDER COMES THE FURTHER END OF TIME. Coyote > Jones runs across a female Messiah.> > > Patricia (Pat) Mathews > mathews@unm.edu > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: BG: Singer from the Sea Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, Lydia, I thought this was interesting as Tepper presented her as someone who'd assimilated a fair amount of social conditioning and was also somewhat a creature of impulse. Making her struggle to overcome some of her own flaws part of the struggle, instead of just having her struggle against outside forces. FWIW, Maryelizabeth Lydia Lynsdaughter wrote: > I enjoyed Singer from the Sea except that sometimes the main character drove me just about crazy. In some ways, she was such a diz-brain! > > When she was traveling in 'commonfolk' disguise, she kept putting her foot in her mouth (and putting everyone in danger) with remarks about having had dinner with the countess or repeating something that a duke had said to her. > > When they took her to spy on the 'ritual', they warned her not to make any noise as she would be putting them ALL in danger, and through the whole thing, she struggled and tried to make noise! > > I kept wanted to scream, 'Get it together, chickie!' I just found those parts really annoying. > > Lydia > -- --- Maryelizabeth Hart Publicity Manager ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:35:59 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > . ARe there any books > > where the chosen one is female? > > How about one of a trinity? In P.C. Hodgell's excellent series > Godstalk, Dark of the Moon, & Seeker's Mask the protagonist > (Jame) is one of a trinity of mythic chosen ones destined to > redeem (or perhaps destroy) their people. It's a basic, Healer, > Preserver, Destroyer division, with Jame as destroyer, her older > brother as preserver, and a more distant relative as healer. > > > -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com > Hodgell is BRILLIANT, A DELIGHT! Less brilliant but entertaining is Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody and Prophecy in which a woman is the 'chosen' one. Amy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:25:07 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There's a novel by Suzette Haden Elgin, probably out of >print. I think it's called YONDER COMES THE FURTHER END OF TIME. Coyote >Jones runs across a female Messiah.> Shouldn't that be _Star Anchored, Star Angered_? Drussa Silver is definitely a messiah figure, unlike Responsible of Brightwater. Coyote Jones has a knack of falling over female saviours - he also did this in _Furthest_ (and even had a daughter by her). Also, wouldn't Elizabeth Moon's Paksennarion count as a Chosen One? Lesley Hall lesleyah@primex.co.uk website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:03:26 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: promised one In-Reply-To: <007401c0176f$327040c0$650195c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Lesley Hall wrote: > >print. I think it's called YONDER COMES THE FURTHER END OF TIME. Coyote > >Jones runs across a female Messiah.> > > > Shouldn't that be _Star Anchored, Star Angered_? Drussa Silver is > definitely a messiah figure, unlike Responsible of Brightwater. Coyote Jones > has a knack of falling over female saviours - he also did this in _Furthest_ > (and even had a daughter by her). Right! My memory's at fault - it's been a long time. I forget how long. Thanks! > > Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:19:17 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lydia Lynsdaughter Subject: 'Wild Angel' book review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Book Reviews >In Gold Rush California (1850), hopeful settlers Rachel >and William McKenzie have their dreams cut short when >they are murdered by the ruthless robber Jasper Davis >In their camp not far from the boomtown of Selby. >Their 3 year old daughter Sarah, by hiding in a cave, >avoids death, finding her survival depends upon the >wolf pack led by the she-wolf Wauna that adopts her. >Like her special wolf-companion Beka, one of Wauna's >offspring, Sarah grows wild, strong, healthy and wary >of humans for many years until a chance encounter and >resulting friendship with Malila, a young Miwok Indian >woman and shaman who shows her that not all people are >to be feared. When reading a review like the above, when I get to the part "until a chance encounter", my heart starts to sink. I expect it to continue "until a chance encounter with a handsome young woodsman tames her and teaches her how to love again" or whatever and I'm so delighted when the 'chance encounter' is with another woman! Here's to friendship between women! Here's to untamed women! Well, here's to love, too, but it should never be used to 'tame' someone. ------------------------------------------------------ Get the Latest News at CNN Interactive: http://CNN.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:08:32 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/2000 6:49:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lesleyah@PRIMEX.CO.UK writes: << Also, wouldn't Elizabeth Moon's Paksennarion count as a Chosen One? Lesley Hall >> Wasn't sure about Paks. I haven't read the trioligy in awhile, and for some reason the first book as stood more. I never saw Paks as a chosen one, but as a kick-butt woman. But the last time I read them was when the last one came out. When I put out the quey I was thinking along the lines of a chosen on in a prophecy. There seems to be alot of woman who go and do things, but prophecy seems to always occur with men (unless you count the tragic one concerning Dedire). In Horwood's Duncton books, Privet is with a doubt a hero and suffers more then most of the males in novels. But Privet doesn't really fufill a prophecy. She writes the book of silence, but most thought the book already written. The prophecy in the Duncton books seem to be fulfilled by males (the Stone Mole, the anicent delvers). Perhaps woman don't fulfill prophecies because they refused to be controlled? chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:11:09 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: 'Wild Angel' book review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/2000 9:20:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gadfly@BEEN-THERE.COM writes: << When reading a review like the above, when I get to the part "until a chance encounter", my heart starts to sink. I expect it to continue "until a chance encounter with a handsome young woodsman tames her and teaches her how to love again" or whatever and I'm so delighted when the 'chance encounter' is with another woman! Here's to friendship between women! Here's to untamed women! Well, here's to love, too, but it should never be used to 'tame' someone. >> Should wonderfully different. I hate those chance encounters as well. But I also hate it when the female character is drawn as a really good, and wonderful bad guy. A great villian. Then she meets the hero and is reformed. AS the animaics would say: SPEW! Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:03:57 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marianne Reddin Aldrich Subject: Re: promised one / BDG: Singer from the Sea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Spoilers????(I never know.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Having finally finished Tepper's _Singer from the Sea_, I see both the protagonist, Genevieve, and even more so her ancestor Tenobia/Zenobia as 'chosen ones', in a pretty straightforward sense... Genevieve fulfils ancient prophecies AND is guided by the world-spirit, who speaks to her directly and through messengers. Zenobia not only became a great legend-figure of her people, a woman whom later generations saw as a savior, a model to be followed, but was born by divine intervention ("Tenopia's mother really was impregnated by a wave..."). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * END POSSIBLE SPOILERS _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:35:32 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Dall Subject: Re: promised one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Chris wrote: >When I put out the query I was thinking along the lines of a chosen on in a >prophecy. What about Hari in Robin McKinley's _The Blue Sword_? It's a while since I've read it, but I seem to remember she fulfilled a prophecy/legend about a female warrior, with a specific title (the Damar-something?). However, she sort of fell into the role accidentally rather than being specifically born to become it, so I'm not sure she's what you're after. It's a terrific read anyway. Alternatively, there's always Pratchett - cheers to the person who suggested Carrot and Angua as an example of a healthy relationship btw - _Equal Rites_ features the troubles that ensue when the baby destined to be the eighth son of an eighth son (and therefore prime wizard material) turns out to be a girl. >Perhaps woman don't fulfill prophecies because they refused to be >controlled? I'd like to think so. However, my favourite example of such behaviour comes again from Pratchett. Carrot, an orphan brought up by dwarves, with ancestral sword in tow and mysterious crown-shaped birthmark, refuses to have any truck with "return of the king" type legends, and consistently insists that the best thing any mysterious heir-to-the-throne could do would be to put in an honest day's work. Kate. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 01:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: 'Wild Angel' book review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not to worry folks---the Wild Angel never gets 'tamed'---but please read the book (it's OK to wait for the economical paperback or to go to the library) and find out how she manages that despite some other characters best efforts!!!! Cheers! Amy > << When reading a review like the above, when I get to the > part "until a chance encounter", my heart starts to > sink. I expect it to continue "until a chance encounter > with a handsome young woodsman tames her and teaches her > how to love again" or whatever and I'm so delighted when > the 'chance encounter' is with another woman! Here's to > friendship between women! Here's to untamed women! > Well, here's to love, too, but it should never be used > to 'tame' someone. > >> > Should wonderfully different. I hate those chance encounters as well. But > I also hate it when the female character is drawn as a really good, and > wonderful bad guy. A great villian. Then she meets the hero and is reformed. > > AS the animaics would say: SPEW! > > Chris > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 01:48:57 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joanie Bassler Subject: Re: "Alyx" I have copy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith, I happen to have a copy of "The Adventures of Alyx". I would rather not give up my copy, but I will search to see if I can find another one...or if you contact me via my JBassler@aol.com address we can chat. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 05:41:46 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Judith Subject: Re: "Alyx" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear all, thank you for your responses to my mail!I have someone searching for the book for me in UK and I'm hoping she'll find it. Has any of U read John Barth's "Chimera"? I'm doing it for a course and it disgusts me.It rewrites Greek Mythology and there's an offensive scene where one of his heroes rape an Amazon.I feel that this text is sexist and homophobic.Women get raped and degraded and there's a lot of emphasis on male sexual performance. There's a rude portrayal of a lisping effeminate gay man but most of the book's vitriol's directed at "bull-dykes".God, I really hate books like this!I hate studying it! BTW any Winterson fans out there? Judith --- Joanie Bassler wrote: > Judith, I happen to have a copy of "The Adventures > of Alyx". I would rather > not give up my copy, but I will search to see if I > can find another one...or > if you contact me via my JBassler@aol.com address we > can chat. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the > message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there > are problems. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:30:00 PDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Alex Wells Subject: Re: promised one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi y'all, I'm going to de-lurk and suggest another "sort of" promised one: what about Marghe in Nicola Griffith's Ammonite? She fulfills all the prophecies of a tribe who is expecting the goddess of death to return. 'Course, she does it in her own way... Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:03:32 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: GUNES Evrim Didem Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C01812.D638EB0A" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C01812.D638EB0A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, How about LeGuin's The Tombs of Atuan's.....shit!, I don't remember the name of the character, I remember Ged, but not the female one !:( ( and then LeGuin would say it's not a real character) Anyway, she was the heroin wasn't it??? evrim -----Original Message----- From: Alex Wells [mailto:wildflag@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 4:30 PM To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] promised one Hi y'all, I'm going to de-lurk and suggest another "sort of" promised one: what about Marghe in Nicola Griffith's Ammonite? She fulfills all the prophecies of a tribe who is expecting the goddess of death to return. 'Course, she does it in her own way... Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C01812.D638EB0A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [*FSFFU*] promised one

Hi all,

How about LeGuin's The Tombs of Atuan's.....shit!, I = don't remember the name of the character, I remember Ged, but not the = female one !:( ( and then LeGuin would say it's not a real = character)

Anyway, she was the heroin wasn't it???

evrim
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Wells [mailto:wildflag@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 4:30 PM
To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU
Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] promised one


Hi y'all,
  I'm going to de-lurk and suggest another = "sort of" promised one:  what
about Marghe in Nicola Griffith's Ammonite?  = She fulfills all the prophecies
of a tribe who is expecting the goddess of death to = return.  'Course, she
does it in her own way...
        = Alex
_______________________________________________________________= __________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own = public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

--------------------------------------------------
This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only = for
discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. = To
unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message = to
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the = message say:
          &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;  unsubscribe FEMINISTSF

Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there = are problems.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C01812.D638EB0A-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:26:17 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Deborah A. Oosterhouse" Subject: Re: promised one MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GUNES Evrim Didem wrote: > Hi all, > How about LeGuin's The Tombs of Atuan's.....shit!, I don't remember > the name of the character, I remember Ged, but not the female one !:( > ( and then LeGuin would say it's not a real character) > > Anyway, she was the heroin wasn't it??? > > evrim Tenar, the heroine of *The Tombs of Atuan* and of *Tehanu*, is believed from a very young age to be the Eaten One reborn and she is taken away from her family to be a high priestess at the Place of the Tombs. There are no specific prophecies about her, just a search much like the search for incarnations of Tibetan lamas, and Tenar ultimately turns her back on the life she was forced into. Deborah -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:48:44 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: promised one Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kate Dall writes: What about Hari in Robin McKinley's _The Blue Sword_? It's a while since I've read it, but I seem to remember she fulfilled a prophecy/legend about a female warrior, with a specific title (the Damar-something?). However, she sort of fell into the role accidentally rather than being specifically born to become it, so I'm not sure she's what you're after. It's a terrific read anyway. Alternatively, there's always Pratchett - cheers to the person who suggested Carrot and Angua as an example of a healthy relationship btw - _Equal Rites_ features the troubles that ensue when the baby destined to be the eighth son of an eighth son (and therefore prime wizard material) turns out to be a girl. I'd like to think so. However, my favourite example of such behaviour comes again from Pratchett. Carrot, an orphan brought up by dwarves, with ancestral sword in tow and mysterious crown-shaped birthmark, refuses to have any truck with "return of the king" type legends, and consistently insists that the best thing any mysterious heir-to-the-throne could do would be to put in an honest day's work. Kate. ::::Basngs head upon desk:::: Should've remembered Carrot and the Blue Sword. Thanks for the cheers Kate. Nice to know there are discworld friends on this list. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:49:49 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: "Alyx" I have copy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the Sci-Fi book club might have an ominbus edition of the Alyx book or books. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.