From LISTSERV@listserv.uic.edu Fri Jan 26 13:39:37 2001 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:59:00 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0009E" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:13:28 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Jennifer R. J." Subject: introduction & McCaffrey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, my name is Jennifer. I was a member of this list briefly before and I don't remember why I unsubbed. I think the list wasn't very active at the time or maybe I hadn't read many of the authors that were being discussed. I have read many authors that are new to me in the past year and a half, so I think I might have a better background now. I read through the archives a bit today and I really liked the discussion about Anne McCaffrey's female characters. I used to love her books too, but I found that once I got to be an adult, I had a completely different perspective on her works. I hate the way she portrays female characters- especially in light of the fact that she thinks she's giving women a better place in SF. Maybe it was a better place for them in the 60's than the male authors at that time put them in, but many younger authors have surpassed her with their female characters. I used to belong to some Anne McCaffrey discussion forums because I still liked certain aspects of her books, but I got sick of all of her die-hard fans making so many excuses for her treatment of women characters. I've gotten to the point now though that I can't even bear to read her books anymore, especially the earlier ones. But I almost threw Nimisha's Ship at the wall too (not only because of the female characters, but because of the formulaic style she's been using lately)! That was pretty much the last straw for me. However, I might never have gotten into reading female SF authors if it hadn't been for McCaffrey, so something good came out of it anyway. Some of my favorite authors include Sheri S. Tepper, Robin McKinley, Catherine Asaro, Lois McMaster Bujold, Ursula K. LeGuin, Madeleine L'Engle, Octavia E. Butler, Marion Zimmer Bradley, and Mercedes Lackey. I have many more books by female authors yet to read, so my favorites may be added to in the future. Jennifer -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:17:44 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Jennifer R. J." Subject: more about McCaffrey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I realized that I wasn't nearly done expressing my feelings on McCaffrey, so this will be VERY long. When I said I got sick of her die-hard fans excusing her treatment of female characters, I probably should have explained a bit. It's not like I purposely tried to anger them by criticizing her, but the topic came up and I felt I had to say something. Most of the people just told me and other people to shut up and stop criticizing her. They also said she was a product of her time, but every other female author who is a contemporary of hers writes better female characters (LeGuin, Tepper, MZB, and L'Engle all come to mind). And they excused the treatment of women on Pern with the fact that Thread came along and forced women to have lots of babies so they couldn't be green riders or any type of leader anymore. But I see this sort of treatment of female characters in almost every single book she has ever written, including ones with high technology. She has only had a handful of women characters who have ever stayed strong, whereas most of them might do something truly great and powerful, but they always end up taking second place to their man and losing lots of power once they "settle down" and get married. The ones I can think of who I admire are Moreta, Sassinak (although Elizabeth Moon probably had a lot to do with her being strong), Rhyssa Owen, Hypatia, and to a certain extent, Menolly. Characters like Lessa, the Rowan, Damia, etc. all did great things but then they fell in love, got married, had a lot of babies and never did much of anything significant again. Menolly is about the only one I can think of who had a bit of both. This leads to another pet peeve of mine. A lot of the reason her characters never do anything significant again is that she must move on to the next generation of characters, so their parents aren't very important anymore. I get attached to characters, then they become just bit players. Mercedes Lackey does this a lot too. I also, as many of you have mentioned, strongly objected to her rape scenes. Many people on a Pern discussion forum told me I was a complete idiot for thinking that F'lar raped Lessa and F'nor raped Brekke. They told me to go back and reread the books. Well, I had already read them several times and I knew what I was talking about. If they chose to disregard F'lar's violence toward Lessa, fine, but I will not. He forced her to have sex on numerous occasions when he knew she didn't like it, but eventually she grew to love sex and to love F'lar. Then the scene with F'nor and Brekke reminded me of 70's romance novels in which the "hero" takes the woman's virginity by force and she realizes she loves it. Yes, these books were written in the 60's and 70's when almost all sex scenes were of the rape/ seduction variety, but it still disturbs the hell out of me. I must admit that this aspect of McCaffrey's writing has improved with time though. But I'm still not too pleased with the way she handles sexuality and reproduction. I don't have a problem with women becoming mothers, but every single one of McCaffrey's characters seems obsessed with being pregnant. None of them chose to not get married or not have babies. I've been reading some romance novels lately and McCaffrey seems to follow the formula of girl meets boy, they fight, then fall in love, then have tons of children. I like a good romance, but it seems to be McCaffrey's main focus in all of her books. I like more of a combination of other action with romance thrown in. I must also mention one thing that really bothers me. Lady Thella wanted to be a Lord Holder rather than be married to one, and she was portrayed as evil. I don't think the author consciously was trying to state that women who want to have a stereotypically male job are evil, but I certainly got that feeling. Thella's sister Kylara was also evil, both for wanting power and for being very sexual. McCaffrey says that dragonriders must be open to anyone as a sexual partner at the whim of their dragons' mating habits, but all of her "good" women only have one partner except for Moreta. Kylara goes against this, so she must be a bad person. I also object to McCaffrey's treatment of gays and lesbians. The gay men in the Pern series seem like token characters to me and they can never have very much power. Sure, they are respected for being dragonriders, but they are at the very lowest rank and can never move up. I know some people say that she is trapped by the rules that she made to start with, but I don't see it that way. She has broken a lot of the original rules on Pern and she's the one who set them up to begin with. She wasn't very forward thinking to begin with, but I don't think she's changed a whole lot to want to suddenly change her structure of Pernese society anyway (as evidenced by her newer books, which seem to follow the same basic formula). Sometimes it seems like she is trying to change things for women and gays, but she goes about it in such a way that it doesn't look very sincere. Anyway, I have only seen two lesbian pairs in all of McCaffrey's works. One was well done, but the series was a collaboration with Elizabeth Ann Scarborough, so maybe it was her influence. The other was mentioned briefly in Nimisha's Ship. Lesbians apparently don't exist on Pern and they really serve no purpous in McCaffrey's scheme of things on Pern- they can't be dragonriders and they probably won't be reproducing, so why mention them at all? Finally, I have to agree with what some people on this list or the Feminist SF Lit said about the weyrwomen being doomed to not be real leaders, while the man is the WeyrLEADER. She states that the queen riders are the most powerful people on Pern, but she never illustrates it. Or maybe how she portrays weyrwomen is her idea of how strong women are. Anyway, I hope this isn't considered off topic because I'm ranting about how ANTI- feminist an author is rather than talking about how feminist one is. It's just something I had to get off my chest. I was so excited to find a forum in which some people have the same viewpoint that I do. Not that I think everyone needs to agree with me, but it's refreshing to know that I might not get screamed at or called an idiot for my views about McCaffrey. Jennifer- thinking I could still say a whole lot more on this issue -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:04:56 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: introduction & McCaffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/29/2000 2:00:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jenjavar@SUPERIOR.NET writes: << Some of my favorite authors include Sheri S. Tepper, Robin McKinley, Catherine Asaro, Lois McMaster Bujold, Ursula K. LeGuin, Madeleine L'Engle, Octavia E. Butler, Marion Zimmer Bradley, and Mercedes Lackey. I have many more books by female authors yet to read, so my favorites may be added to in the future. >> LEt's see. Well, first off I've only ever read McCaffery's Dragon books, and _The Colurea_ and I though those books were pretty good. As for Lackney, when she is on, she is great. _THe Black Swan_ is an excellent book. But at times, her romances between her characters seemed forced. For Elspeth and the hawk brother (I can't remember his name). Bradley is excellent as well, just sometimes I wish she didn't make her men, for the most part, so weak. McKinely, in my opinion, is finely being seen and not overlooked. About time. I read _The Hero and the Crown_ so much in by 7 grade (i got it in 6th) the cover was falling off. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:11:43 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: more about McCaffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/29/2000 8:00:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jenjavar@SUPERIOR.NET writes: << Lessa, the Rowan, Damia, etc. all did great things but then they fell in love, got married, had a lot of babies and never did much of anything >> Would disagree about Lessa, just a little. I was disappointed in her treatment of Lessa after the first one. But it seemed to be McCaffery lost interst in her, not that she did anything intersting. As for the rape scene, admitting haven't haven't read that one in awhile, but yes, you're right. There was a strong feeling of rape. In fact, it is rape. I remember reading the first time, and wondering "well that doesn't sound very nice". I was 13 want do you except? Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:47:04 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Le Guin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you didn't know. Le Guin has a short story and a poem in _The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror Vol. 13_ . The short story takes place on Earthsea and deals with love vs. magic. I liked it because the woman said to the guy, "you excepted me to wait and you never wrote?" . Title is Darkrose and Diamond. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 03:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Jennifer R. J." Subject: Re: intro & McCaffrey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Chris, If it's okay, I'll just answer both of your posts in one. >LEt's see. Well, first off I've only ever read McCaffery's Dragon books, and >_The Colurea_ and I though those books were pretty good. I think part of my McCaffrey problem is that I read way too many of her books. I've sort of burned myself out on her books. >As for Lackney, when she is on, she is great. _THe Black Swan_ is an >excellent book. But at times, her romances between her characters seemed >forced. For Elspeth and the hawk brother (I can't remember his name). I agree about Lackey. I loved the Last Herald Mage and Arrows books, liked the Tarma and Kethry books and By the Sword and thought the rest of the Velgarth series was just okay. I haven't read the last 4 Velgarth books yet though. The only other book of hers that I've read so far is The Ship Who Searched which she co-wrote with Anne McCaffrey. I have a bunch of her books to read yet, but I don't want to get sick of her books too. I'm not sure how I felt about Elspeth's romance. I know I liked Vanyel's, Talia's, and Kethry's a lot more though. >Bradley is excellent as well, just sometimes I wish she didn't make her men, >for the most part, so weak. I've only read two MZB books so far, so I really can't judge her style totally, but I did love both of the books I read and I have a lot more on my to read list. >McKinely, in my opinion, is finely being seen and not overlooked. About >time. I read _The Hero and the Crown_ so much in by 7 grade (i got it in >6th) the cover was falling off. >Chris I love Robin McKinley's books! I've met a lot of McKinley fans online, so maybe you're right and she's gaining some readers. I hope so. I highly recommended her books to my best friend. I first read Hero, The Blue Sword, and Beauty when I was in 7th grade. I just reread Beauty and I will be rereading Hero and The Blue Sword soon. I've forgotten so much about them in the past 13 years. >Would disagree about Lessa, just a little. I was disappointed in her >treatment of Lessa after the first one. But it seemed to be McCaffery lost >interst in her, not that she did anything intersting. I think she lost interest too. It would have been really interesting if she had pursued Lessa's psychic abilities more in later books instead of either tying them in with becoming a dragonrider or forgetting about them in later books. But because she seemed so often to pretty much end a character's main story line once the person fell in love and got married, I see her as doing it to Lessa too because it's so common with her other characters. Like I said, it's a pet peeve of mine that she moves on from one character to another so quickly, but I guess she feels the need to write about young people most of the time. >As for the rape scene, >admitting haven't haven't read that one in awhile, but yes, you're right. >There was a strong feeling of rape. In fact, it is rape. I remember reading >the first time, and wondering "well that doesn't sound very nice". I was 13 >want do you except? >Chris I was 13 also, and I don't even think I really noticed it the first time, but the second time, I got very angry. And it wasn't until a discussion on an online forum that I really realized that F'nor did the same thing to Brekke. Then again, the fact that most blue and green riders were gay went completely over my head when I was 13 too, but when I was 18 or so, I understood it all. I think my growing up had a lot to do with my loss of interest in McCaffrey; also, finding new authors who resonated with me more in some way pushed McCaffrey's books farther from me. Jennifer- finally able to rant about this without fear of being told to shut up because I'm stupid; I know some people may argue with me, but at least I won't be silenced here; and I think I'm done ranting about this now -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 08:55:48 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joanne Campbell Tidwell Subject: Re: McKinley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just a little sidenote on McKinley: she's recently rewritten the Beauty and the Beast myth again in a book entitled Rose Daughter. She changed the ending and altered some of the characterizations, but there's enough of an echo to draw a reader of her Beauty in. She said as she grew older the ending of Beauty just didn't work for her anymore. I'd also recommend The Door in the Hedge, a book of short stories, and there's also Deerskin, although it's been so long since I read Deerskin that I don't honestly remember if I liked it or not. Just else something for McKinley readers to enjoy! Joanne Campbell Tidwell Graduate Teaching Assistant Auburn University, Alabama > I love Robin McKinley's books! I've met a lot of McKinley fans > online, so maybe you're right and she's gaining some readers. I hope > so. I highly recommended her books to my best friend. I first read Hero, > The Blue Sword, and Beauty when I was in 7th grade. I just reread Beauty > and I will be rereading Hero and The Blue Sword soon. I've forgotten so > much about them in the past 13 years. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:32:24 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: more about McCaffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer! It's such a pleasure to find someone who 'hates' McCaffrey as much as I do! I got so sick of her books years ago after reading Moreta, Dragonlady of Pern and it was the EXACT same plot as all her previous books and enough was enough, not to mention all the anti-feminist things. Amy > I realized that I wasn't nearly done expressing my feelings on > McCaffrey, so this will be VERY long. When I said I got sick of her > die-hard fans excusing her treatment of female characters, I probably > should have explained a bit. It's not like I purposely tried to anger them > by criticizing her, but the topic came up and I felt I had to say > something. Most of the people just told me and other people to shut up and > stop criticizing her. They also said she was a product of her time, but > every other female author who is a contemporary of hers writes better > female characters (LeGuin, Tepper, MZB, and L'Engle all come to mind). And > they excused the treatment of women on Pern with the fact that Thread came > along and forced women to have lots of babies so they couldn't be green > riders or any type of leader anymore. But I see this sort of treatment of > female characters in almost every single book she has ever written, > including ones with high technology. She has only had a handful of women > characters who have ever stayed strong, whereas most of them might do > something truly great and powerful, but they always end up taking second > place to their man and losing lots of power once they "settle down" and get > married. The ones I can think of who I admire are Moreta, Sassinak > (although Elizabeth Moon probably had a lot to do with her being strong), > Rhyssa Owen, Hypatia, and to a certain extent, Menolly. Characters like > Lessa, the Rowan, Damia, etc. all did great things but then they fell in > love, got married, had a lot of babies and never did much of anything > significant again. Menolly is about the only one I can think of who had a > bit of both. This leads to another pet peeve of mine. A lot of the reason > her characters never do anything significant again is that she must move on > to the next generation of characters, so their parents aren't very > important anymore. I get attached to characters, then they become just bit > players. Mercedes Lackey does this a lot too. > I also, as many of you have mentioned, strongly objected to her rape > scenes. Many people on a Pern discussion forum told me I was a complete > idiot for thinking that F'lar raped Lessa and F'nor raped Brekke. They > told me to go back and reread the books. Well, I had already read them > several times and I knew what I was talking about. If they chose to > disregard F'lar's violence toward Lessa, fine, but I will not. He forced > her to have sex on numerous occasions when he knew she didn't like it, but > eventually she grew to love sex and to love F'lar. Then the scene with > F'nor and Brekke reminded me of 70's romance novels in which the "hero" > takes the woman's virginity by force and she realizes she loves it. Yes, > these books were written in the 60's and 70's when almost all sex scenes > were of the rape/ seduction variety, but it still disturbs the hell out of > me. I must admit that this aspect of McCaffrey's writing has improved with > time though. But I'm still not too pleased with the way she handles > sexuality and reproduction. I don't have a problem with women becoming > mothers, but every single one of McCaffrey's characters seems obsessed with > being pregnant. None of them chose to not get married or not have > babies. I've been reading some romance novels lately and McCaffrey seems > to follow the formula of girl meets boy, they fight, then fall in love, > then have tons of children. I like a good romance, but it seems to be > McCaffrey's main focus in all of her books. I like more of a combination > of other action with romance thrown in. > I must also mention one thing that really bothers me. Lady Thella > wanted to be a Lord Holder rather than be married to one, and she was > portrayed as evil. I don't think the author consciously was trying to > state that women who want to have a stereotypically male job are evil, but > I certainly got that feeling. Thella's sister Kylara was also evil, both > for wanting power and for being very sexual. McCaffrey says that > dragonriders must be open to anyone as a sexual partner at the whim of > their dragons' mating habits, but all of her "good" women only have one > partner except for Moreta. Kylara goes against this, so she must be a bad > person. > I also object to McCaffrey's treatment of gays and lesbians. The gay > men in the Pern series seem like token characters to me and they can never > have very much power. Sure, they are respected for being dragonriders, but > they are at the very lowest rank and can never move up. I know some people > say that she is trapped by the rules that she made to start with, but I > don't see it that way. She has broken a lot of the original rules on Pern > and she's the one who set them up to begin with. She wasn't very forward > thinking to begin with, but I don't think she's changed a whole lot to want > to suddenly change her structure of Pernese society anyway (as evidenced by > her newer books, which seem to follow the same basic formula). Sometimes > it seems like she is trying to change things for women and gays, but she > goes about it in such a way that it doesn't look very sincere. Anyway, I > have only seen two lesbian pairs in all of McCaffrey's works. One was well > done, but the series was a collaboration with Elizabeth Ann Scarborough, so > maybe it was her influence. The other was mentioned briefly in Nimisha's > Ship. Lesbians apparently don't exist on Pern and they really serve no > purpous in McCaffrey's scheme of things on Pern- they can't be dragonriders > and they probably won't be reproducing, so why mention them at all? > Finally, I have to agree with what some people on this list or the > Feminist SF Lit said about the weyrwomen being doomed to not be real > leaders, while the man is the WeyrLEADER. She states that the queen riders > are the most powerful people on Pern, but she never illustrates it. Or > maybe how she portrays weyrwomen is her idea of how strong women are. > Anyway, I hope this isn't considered off topic because I'm ranting > about how ANTI- feminist an author is rather than talking about > how feminist one is. It's just something I had to get off my chest. I > was so excited to find a forum in which some people have the same viewpoint > that I do. Not that I think everyone needs to agree with me, but it's > refreshing to know that I might not get screamed at or called an idiot for > my views about McCaffrey. > Jennifer- thinking I could still say a whole lot more on this issue > > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:15:41 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Mary Shelley Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01C02B2B.F8755100" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C02B2B.F8755100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Out of the corner of my eye this week I noticed someone asking for info = on biographies of Mary Shelley but I've deleted the messages and can't = remember which of the 2 lists this appeared on. There is a new bio of Shelley by Miranda Seymour (London: John Murray, = GBP25) although amazon.co.uk alleges this is not yet published (though = the _Literary Review_, where I just read the review of it, is already = offering it via their bookship at a reduced price) - however, their = listing under Mary Shelley cites numerous studies, also her published = letters, as well numerous editions of Frankenstein and other works. This = should provide some suggestions for things to look up in libraries or = get them to access for you. The Seymour book doesn't seem to be listed yet on amazon.com but = 'Mary Shelley' brings up 365 hits! Lesley Hall lesleyah@primex.co.uk website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C02B2B.F8755100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Out of the corner of my eye this = week I noticed=20 someone asking for info on biographies of Mary Shelley but I've deleted = the=20 messages and can't remember which of the 2 lists this appeared = on.
There is a new = bio of=20 Shelley by Miranda Seymour (London: John Murray, GBP25) although = amazon.co.uk=20 alleges this is not yet published (though the _Literary Review_, where I = just=20 read the review of it, is already offering it via their bookship at a = reduced=20 price) - however, their listing under Mary Shelley = cites=20 numerous studies, also her published letters, as well numerous editions = of=20 Frankenstein and other works. This should provide some suggestions for = things to=20 look up in libraries or get them to access for you.
    The Seymour book doesn't seem to = be listed=20 yet on amazon.com but 'Mary Shelley' brings up 365 hits!
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
websit= e http://homepages.primex.= co.uk/~lesleyah
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C02B2B.F8755100-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:50:34 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: intro & McCaffrey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/30/2000 3:08:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jenjavar@SUPERIOR.NET writes: << I just reread Beauty >> You've read Rose Daughter, right? And I agree about Talia and Kethry. Nothing wromg with ranting. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:08:35 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: McKinley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I loved Deerskin. Its a retelling of the Donkeyskin french Fiary tale. Girls looks like her dead mother, father tries to rape her, she runs away disguised as an old woman, meets prince etc. What I liked best about it was the use of dogs in the story. THe princess in the story is an expert on dogs. Also McKinely has a new book out, forgot the title, it is a retelling of Sleeping Beauty. And it is in HARDCOVER. Which has to mean she is getting popular. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.