From LISTSERV@listserv.uic.edu Fri Jan 26 13:40:28 2001 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:59:11 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0012C" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:22:04 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: FW: [RWWATCH] Myth vs. Fact: The Right's Spin on Reproductive Rights In-Reply-To: <0.1600003522.518105107-212058698-976850649@topica.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I thought the following was an excellent, thoughtful analysis and wanted to share it with y'all. -l. -- Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com -------------------------------------------------------------- PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx -------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- From: Rich Cowan Reply-To: rich@organizenow.net Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:24:09 -0800 To: rwwatch@topica.com Subject: [RWWATCH] Myth vs. Fact: The Right's Spin on Reproductive Rights The the purpose of this e-list is to respond to right-wing campaigns, coming from any party, to misrepresent the truth. The article below from the NOW Legal Defense & Education Fund's http://womensenews.org, on the abortion issue, does that well. Having witnessed the way that right-wing think tanks and media groups manipulate public opinion, it will also be critical in the next six weeks to focus attention on the groups behind this manipulation -- who often have a level of credibility that is undeserved. For tax-exempt groups going over the edge, we can even challenge them on whether they are "educational". See: http://www.courttv.com/legaldocs/government/gopac4.html A group that has long provided the information on the groups behind the Backlash is Political Research Associates. This week they have released a new activist kit, in paper form, on the reproductive rights issue. You can order copies at: http://www.publiceye.org/ark/repro_rights/brochure2.htm For questions regarding bulk orders, discounts, etc. contact: > Jesse Ward Putnam > Director of Development and Communications > Political Research Associates > 617-666-5300 / fax:617-666-6622 > http://www.publiceye.org -rich cowan Organizers' Collaborative (OC) >Anti-Choice Abortion Laws Collide With Facts > >Run Date: 12/13/00 > >By Richard North Patterson WEnews contributor > >The politicization of "partial birth" abortion and parental consent >laws by anti-choice forces has opened a chasm between myth and >reality, argues a noted author. Researching his latest novel, he >came to believe the facts are intentionally obscured. > >(WOMENSENEWS)--Two years ago, I set out to research and write a >novel of abortion politics focused on the two most vexing issues >confronting the pro-choice movement: so-called "partial birth" >abortion and parental consent laws. To do so, I imagined a new >federal law, "The Protection of Life Act," which restricted >post-viability abortions for minors to cases in which, one, the >minor gained the consent of a parent, based on a doctor's advice >that the pregnancy posed a "substantial risk" to "life or physical >health," or two, a federal court determined that such a risk >existed. > >My aim was a book, "Protect and Defend," that was neither pro-choice >nor pro-life, but pro-truth, in order to determine whether the >understanding of the general public squared with actuality. And what >I found was that the politicization of those issues by pro-life >forces has created a yawning--and frequently inhumane--gap between >reality and myth. > >Take so-called "partial birth" abortion, the subject of such >incendiary rhetoric. The majority of the public seems to believe >that such procedures are common, that they are a belated means of >birth control, performed by callous doctors on the healthy mothers >of normal and viable fetuses, and, therefore, that they are a >particularly distasteful form of abortion on demand. > >The emotional power of this portrait has served the pro-life forces >well, allowing them to intimidate politicians while casting >pro-choice activists as, at best, oblivious to the moral >implications of abortion, even at its most extreme. > >The only problem is that none of this is so. > >Political Version of 'Partial Birth' Abortion Is Light Years From >Reality > >I interviewed doctors who performed post-viability abortions, women >who have had them and a myriad of experts including lawyers, judges, >ethicists, activists and mental health professionals. To my regret, >the only stakeholders who refused to see me, or to support their >argument with fact, were two of the most prominent pro-life groups >(though one faxed me grisly diagrams portraying a late-term >abortion). I can only speculate as to their reasons. But one thing >became very clear: The political version of "partial birth" abortion >is light years from reality. > >To start, the term itself is not medical, but invented by the >pro-life movement to evoke images of fetuses aborted moments from >birth. Yet it is so vaguely defined that many state laws banning >"partial birth" have been struck down by the courts as embracing >pre-viability abortions. True late-term abortion is exceedingly >uncommon: Only 1 in 1,000 abortions takes place after 24 weeks, out >of the total of 1.2 million abortions in the U.S. And because of the >risks of harassment or worse, the doctors willing to perform them >are about as rare. > >To learn about a think tank's pro-choice resource guide, click here: >http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?aid=370&mode=today > >Why perform them at all? Not, as we are led to believe, because a >prospective mother has tardily concluded that she does not wish to >be one. Rather, they result from severe fetal anomalies, a palpable >risk to a woman's life or health--or both. Each of the women I >interviewed was pregnant with wanted children; none contemplated >abortion until faced with pregnancies gone hideously wrong--some of >which threatened their own life and health. Yet even though >termination was clearly in the interests of both the women and their >families, none could relive this experience without lapsing into >speechlessness, or even tears. I am aware of no evidence refuting >these women as the human face of late-term abortion--certainly the >pro-life groups I contacted provided none. > >But because the procedures required for late-term abortion are not >pleasant, the distasteful picture operates to obscure the medical >reasons for it. In turn, that has allowed the pro-life movement to >vilify a handful of already traumatized women in the service of a >larger goal: to erode public support for the right to choose, >protected by the U.S. Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade. > >In this case, as happens so often, truth is the first casualty of >politics. > >Parental Consent Laws: Pointless to Dangerous > >This maxim also applies to parental consent laws: the requirement of >most states that pregnant minors obtain the consent of, or at least >notify, one parent before procuring an abortion. The only >alternative is for the minor to persuade a court that she is able to >make a mature decision, or that abortion is otherwise in her best >interests. To many parents, such laws make intuitive sense: We're >good parents, we like to believe, and any good parent would want to >counsel a daughter at such a moment. > >But this Norman Rockwell assumption dissolves on more serious >reflection. To begin with, a functional family should not need or >require a state or federal law to promote familial closeness. If >such a trusting and supportive relationship has not already been >established, it is unlikely legislators can create in a moment of >crisis what the family has not developed over the course of a >child's life. > >And the reasons for such a lack of trust too often involve causes we >do not wish to contemplate--ranging from neglect, sexual shame and >cultural disdain for women, to insanity, abuse and incest. (One >irony, I learned through doctors at urban hospitals, is that incest >is a leading cause of the fetal anomalies that lead to late-term >abortions.) > >Thus the effect of such laws can range from pointless to dangerous. >One pregnant girl, afraid to disappoint her loving parents by >seeking consent, died from an illegal abortion; another was killed >by her own father after disclosing to her mother that he had raped >her. > >The most common effect of such parental consent and notification >laws is that more teen-agers become mothers because they are afraid >to ask permission or their parents refuse. In moments of candor, >pro-life advocates privately admit that this is a principal aim of >such laws, predicting that their passage will lessen the number of >abortions. > >Teen Mothers Likely Depressed, Dropping Out, Facing Dim Economic >Future > >But even were this consequence unintended, it is inevitable: What >teen-ager afraid to confront her parents would then have the >resources to hire a lawyer or face a judge? And logic dictates that >the burdens of teen motherhood will fall on those least equipped for >it: the poorest, the least educated, the least resilient. But >regardless of demographics, experts tell us that a predictable >result of motherhood for any adolescent is depression, economic >marginalization and a failure to complete her education. > >What, then, are the virtues of such laws? Proponents tell us that >parental involvement can spare a minor the psychological trauma of >abortion. But experts in adolescent psychology tell us that for most >teens an unwanted pregnancy is far more traumatic than abortion and >that the best predictor of emotional peace is the ability to decide >about it for herself. > >An unwilling parent is unlikely to be a good parent; the unwanted >children are far more likely to drop out of school or commit acts of >violence than children who are wanted, nurtured and well parented. >All of these consequences suggest the ultimate failure of such laws: >that childbirth compelled by parents, or a fear of parents, leads to >familial rupture, not unity. > >To me, the clearest lesson is that, in substituting fact for myth, >politics debases the serious moral argument that should surround >abortion, substituting myth for fact. For the facts impel a >conclusion that Americans at large may find surprising: that in the >areas of late-term abortion and parental consent, it is the >pro-choice forces that can better claim the moral high ground. > >Author and attorney Richard North Patterson's book, "Protect and >Defend," is a novel of the Supreme Court and abortion politics. It >will be available in book stores today, December 13. > >For further information about "Protect and Defend," visit Alfred A. >Knopf: http://www.aaknopf.com/. Organizers' Collaborative PO Box 400897, Cambridge MA 02140 org-c@organizenow.net www.organizenow.net |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This message was sent via RWWATCH, a low-traffic forum that responds to right-wing campaigns (coming from any party) to misrepresent the truth in order to undermine democracy. info page www.topica.com/lists/rrwwatch subscribe: rwwatch-subscribe@topica.com (send a blank email) unsubscribe: rwwatch-unsubscribe@topica.com |- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Please support our efforts to foster online communication and resource sharing by social change groups by joining OC at http://organizenow.net ___________________________________________________________ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:24:01 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: janet Dowling Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 7 Dec 2000 to 15 Dec 2000 (#2000-65) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi- any one there I haven't seen this list for ages- I requested the digest form some time ago, and then forgot about it until this digest turned up . It covers 8 days, and only one posting. Has this list died out, or are the mailings disappearing into the ether and not reaching me. I was on this list some years ago, and had to unsubscribe because of the volume of all the mailings ( this was before i found out about digests) have people stop talking here- or are they all some where else- or do they just not talk to me. I feel like I just woke up, realised there was nobody, and wondered where they all were. hello- any body thereeeeeeeeeeeeee! Janet ( who knows that the truth is out there- I think) -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:49:20 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 7 Dec 2000 to 15 Dec 2000 (#2000-65) In-Reply-To: <68.a3dbc77.276d2961@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi! We're here, just rather quiet these days. -l. -- Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com -------------------------------------------------------------- PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:15:21 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Angela Barclay Subject: reading response survey Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3059835325_1768783_MIME_Part" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3059835325_1768783_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear friends in feminist science fiction: I assume most of you will have received this survey as an FSF-Lit post, but decided to send it to both lists in case there are members that belong to this list only. Looking forward to hearing from you, Angela Barclay Happy holiday season, everyone: I have been a longtime fan of fantasy and science fiction (particularly the work of Angela Carter, Guy Gavriel Kay, Tanith Lee and Sherri S. Tepper) an= d a member of this mailing list since last October. Since then I have enjoye= d being introduced to new authors and ideas and to the rich and diverse discussion of this group. I have chosen to study the listserve for my Masters in Communications (MCS) final project, which is much like a Thesis. I am interested in how the opportunities created by the mailing list affect the reading, writing and publication/marketing of feminist fantasy and science fiction. Members who have been around since April may recall that I already introduced conducted a mini-survey. Thank-you very much to those who replied. Your detailed and personable responses are greatly appreciated, and will be used in my final analysis. (Feel free to also answer the expanded survey below.) I am reintroducing myself and my project because I=BAd like to add some questions to my initial survey and because membership of an electronic mailing list is never static. If you have some time I=BAd appreciate your responses to any or all of the questions listed below. Just insert your answer after the applicable questions. **Please email the entire survey back to me, by January 19, at barclaya@telusplanet.net and not to the listserve.** A. The List 1. How did you find out about this mailing list? 2. Why did you join this mailing list? 3. How long have you been a member of this mailing list? 4. Did you experience any difficulties joining this list? 5. How do you benefit personally and/or professionally from being a member of this list? 6. What do you most enjoy about being a member of this list? 7. What elements of list membership or discussion do you least enjoy? 8. To what extent do you participate in online discussion? Explain, if possible, your level of participation. 9. Do you participate in the book nomination and/or voting processes? If yes, which processes and why? If no, why not? 10. Are you or have you been a member of other mailing lists and if so how have they differed from this list in terms of purpose, function and dynamics? 11. What elements of this list make it female-friendly? Are there element= s that are =D1unfriendly=E6? 12. Do you participate in off-line discussion with other list members? Ho= w frequently? For what purpose? 13. Has joining the listserve led to any positive personal or professional contacts or experiences? 14. Do you think our discussions have political or social or other impacts that extend beyond our =D1community=E6? If so, what are they and how do they occur? B. The Literature 1. Reading Preferences: a. What about feminist fantasy and science fiction is particularly appealing or meaningful to you? b. Has joining the listserve altered what literature, aspects of literatur= e or authors you find appealing or meaningful? Please explain. c. Has participating in or observing listserve discussion altered how you make meaning or sense of what you read? If so, how? 2. Reading Practices: a. Approximately how many works of fiction do you read for pleasure each month? b. What approximate percentage of the works of fiction you read are feminist science fiction, fantasy or utopian/dystopian? c. What other types of fiction do you read? d. Before you joined the listserve did you discuss the feminist science fiction you read with others? With whom? How frequently? e. In addition to following listserve discussion, do you currently discuss what you read with others not on the list? With whom? How frequently? f. Where do you acquire most of the novels you read? g. Has joining the listserve altered your reading practices in any way I have failed to mention? C. You, the Reader a. If you don=BAt find this an invasion of privacy, briefly describe yourself. The reason I ask for a some personal information is so that I might be able to =D1take a snapshot=E6 of our community at this time. Aside from being a group of feminist science fiction aficionados, who are we? (For example, I am a 37 year old woman who hopes to move beyond the stresse= s of teaching in the public school system by completing my Masters degree- hence this survey. My dream is ultimately to teach science fiction, communication and cultural studies at the university level. When I am not working or studying I can be found curled up with a couple of cats and a book, or hacking hopelessly about on the golf course.) I appreciate your participation very much, Angela Barclay University of Calgary Calgary, Alberta, Canada --MS_Mac_OE_3059835325_1768783_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable reading response survey Dear friends in feminist science fiction:

I assume most of you will have received this survey as an FSF-Lit post, but= decided to send it to both lists in case there are members that belong to t= his list only.  

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Angela Barclay
Happy holiday season, everyone:  = ;

I have been a longtime fan of fantasy and science fiction (particularly the= work of Angela Carter, Guy Gavriel Kay, Tanith Lee and Sherri S. Tepper) an= d a member of this mailing list since last October.  Since then I have = enjoyed being introduced to new authors and ideas and to the rich and divers= e discussion of this group.

I have chosen to study the listserve for my Masters in Communications (MCS)= final project, which is much like a Thesis.  I am interested in how th= e opportunities created by the mailing list affect the reading, writing and = publication/marketing of feminist fantasy and science fiction.

Members who have been around since April may recall that I already introduc= ed conducted a mini-survey.  Thank-you very much to those who replied. =  Your detailed and personable responses are greatly appreciated, and wi= ll be used in my final analysis.  (Feel free to also answer the expande= d survey below.)

I am reintroducing myself and my project because I=BAd like to add some quest= ions to my initial survey and because membership of an electronic mailing li= st is never static.  If you have some time I=BAd appreciate your response= s to any or all of the questions listed below.  Just insert your answer= after the applicable questions.  **Please email the entire survey back= to me, by January 19, at barclaya@telusplanet.net<= /U> and not to the listserve.**
    
A.  The List
1.  How did you find out about this mailing list?
2.  Why did you join this mailing list?
3.  How long have you been a member of this mailing list?
4.  Did you experience any difficulties joining this list?
5.  How do you benefit personally and/or professionally from being a m= ember of this list?
6.  What do you most enjoy about being a member of this list?
7.  What elements of list membership or discussion do you least enjoy?=
8.  To what extent do you participate in online discussion?  Expl= ain, if possible, your level of participation.
9. Do you participate in the book nomination and/or voting processes?  = ;If yes, which processes and why?  If no, why not?
10.  Are you or have you been a member of other mailing lists and if s= o how have they differed from this list in terms of purpose, function and dy= namics?
11.  What elements of this list make it female-friendly?  Are the= re elements that are =D1unfriendly=E6?
12.  Do you participate in off-line discussion with other list members= ?  How frequently?  For what purpose?
13.  Has joining the listserve led to any positive personal or profess= ional contacts or experiences?

14.  Do you think our discussions have political or social or other im= pacts that extend beyond our =D1community=E6?  If so, what are they and how= do they occur?

B.  The Literature
1.  Reading Preferences:
a.  What about feminist fantasy and science fiction is particularly ap= pealing or meaningful to you?
b.  Has joining the listserve altered what literature, aspects of lite= rature or authors you find appealing or meaningful?  Please explain. c.  Has participating in or observing listserve discussion altered how= you make meaning or sense of what you read?  If so, how?  
 
2.  Reading Practices:
a.  Approximately how many works of fiction do you read for pleasure e= ach month?   
b.  What approximate percentage of the works of fiction you read are f= eminist science fiction, fantasy or utopian/dystopian?
c.  What other types of fiction do you read?
d.  Before you joined the listserve did you discuss the feminist scien= ce fiction you read with others?  With whom?  How frequently?
e.  In addition to following listserve discussion, do you currently di= scuss what you read with others not on the list?  With whom?  How = frequently?
f.  Where do you acquire most of the novels you read?  
g.  Has joining the listserve altered your reading practices in any wa= y I have failed to mention?  

C.  You, the Reader
a.  If you don=BAt find this an invasion of privacy, briefly describ= e yourself.  The reason I ask for a some personal information is so tha= t I might be able to =D1take a snapshot=E6 of our community at this time.  = Aside from being a group of feminist science fiction aficionados, who are we= ?  (For example, I am a 37 year old woman who hopes to move beyond the = stresses of teaching in the public school system by completing my Masters de= gree- hence this survey.  My dream is ultimately to teach science ficti= on, communication and cultural studies at the university level.  When I= am not working or studying I can be found curled up with a couple of cats a= nd a book, or hacking hopelessly about on the golf course.)

I appreciate your participation very much,
Angela Barclay
University of Calgary
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
  



 --MS_Mac_OE_3059835325_1768783_MIME_Part-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:26:20 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 7 Dec 2000 to 15 Dec 2000 (#2000-65) In-Reply-To: <68.a3dbc77.276d2961@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >have people stop talking here- or are they all some where else- or do they >just not talk to me. The FEMINISTSF-LIT list had a lot of traffic, with the Book Discussion Group going strong. You might want to subscribe to that list also. ----- Beware the man of one book. Chris Shaffer chris_shaffer@yahoo.com http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:43:02 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Vivian Lee Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 7 Dec 2000 to 15 Dec 2000 (#2000-65) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001216172459.00ab5450@pop.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What's the URL for the Book Discussion Group, by the way? Thanks, Vivian >> have people stop talking here- or are they all some where else- or do they >> just not talk to me. > > The FEMINISTSF-LIT list had a lot of traffic, with the Book Discussion > Group going strong. You might want to subscribe to that list also. > ----- > Beware the man of one book. > Chris Shaffer chris_shaffer@yahoo.com > http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:40:38 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Re: FEMINISTSF Digest - 7 Dec 2000 to 15 Dec 2000 (#2000-65) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304/ Chris chris_shaffer@yahoo.com At 01:43 PM 12/17/00, you wrote: >What's the URL for the Book Discussion Group, by the way? > >Thanks, > >Vivian > > >> have people stop talking here- or are they all some where else- or do they > >> just not talk to me. > > > > The FEMINISTSF-LIT list had a lot of traffic, with the Book Discussion > > Group going strong. You might want to subscribe to that list also. > > ----- > > Beware the man of one book. > > Chris Shaffer chris_shaffer@yahoo.com > > http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > >Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:15:35 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dunja Mohr Organization: University of Trier, English Department Subject: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be for me) I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body (e.g. human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st Century in the light of gender and body discourses. Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, robots) I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! Dunja Mohr PhD candidate English Department University of Trier Germany -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:15:55 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies Comments: cc: mohrd@UNI-TRIER.DE > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. Are human/animal hybrids included? E.g. for a few examples, HG Well's 'The Island of Dr Moreau', the modified humanoid animals of Cordwainer Smith's universe. If you don't already know about the Histsex discussion list for historians of sexuality, you might get some useful answers there. This list can be subscribed to either by sending a message to histsex-subscribe@listbot.com or via the list homepage, http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/listinf.htm Lesley Hall lesleyah@primex.co.uk -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:09:27 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm.... I recently read Man Plus by Frederick Pohl - that would seem to fit your specifications pretty well.... it's available in the SF Masterworks series (not sure if published in the US) Written I think a couple of decades ago, about an attempt o create a cyborg- a human astronaut altered surgically into a cyborg capable self-sufficient living on the surface of Mars. From the point of view of the astronaut. How he adjusts to his new body- ie his sexuality- the horror of having his penis and testicles removed, etc. I guess it's a bit dated now, because of the fact that they surgically alter this poor bloke into a half-man half-machine, whereas nowadays I guess genetic engineering would be the go. Anyway, it's highly regarded- the SF Masterworks is a collection of the centuries best sf classics, some previously out of print. Would Xenogenesis be completely off the track? I am referring to the second generation crosses between the human and alien ie the human ollooi (spelling?) I guess there are quite a few sf stories a long the lines of spaceships with human brains as pilots ie Anne McCAffrey The ship who Sang, ... I read a short story by Philip K. Dick also with that idea- there a quite a few. Then.. of course.. there is the Terminator. (Arnie) well- technically he is a cyborg! I remember a sf story I read about a very beautiful and famous dancer whose body was destroyed by fire, and doctors placed her brain in a tasteful, aesthetic but metallic body. From the POV of one of her best friends, it was about the decision whether to perform again or not, whether the audience would accept her or find her grotesque, whether SHE could accept her new body or found it grotesque, It wasn't contemporary written at least 2 decades ago (or is that only the 80's now!) the 60's or 70's I should say. anyway. But .. I'm sure this is very interesting but I can't member the name or author. Anyway, good luck- I'll send more suggestions if I think of anyway. I'm sure Man plus would have something useful in it. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:32:05 GMT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lesley Hall Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies > I remember a sf story I read about a very beautiful and famous dancer whose > body was destroyed by fire, and doctors placed her brain in a tasteful, > aesthetic but metallic body. From the POV of one of her best friends, it was > about the decision whether to perform again or not, whether the audience > would accept her or find her grotesque, whether SHE could accept her new body > or found it grotesque, It wasn't contemporary written at least 2 decades ago C L Moore, 'Of Woman Born' - 1940s or 50s to my recollection. (At least, I don't think she was still active in the 60s) Lesley Hall lesleyah@primex.co.uk -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: <3A40BF07.4DFB707D@uni-trier.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 12/20/00 7:15 AM, Dunja Mohr at mohrd@UNI-TRIER.DE wrote: > Dear all, > > I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I > would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the > body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was > asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am > caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be > for me) > > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > > Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) > to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. > Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, > robots) > I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. You might check out THE SILVER METAL LOVER by Tanith Lee. And METROPOLIS by (crikey, I can't believe I forgot the name!). Jewish folklore regarding the Golem might also be of interest. Good luck! -l. -- Laura J. Mixon | ljm@digitalnoir.com | www.digitalnoir.com -------------------------------------------------------------- PROXIES- Future-noir with a heart of gold (and buns of steel) (Tor, Oct 1999 ISBN 0812523873) http://www.digitalnoir.com/prx -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:16:53 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies: Hall after Shanahan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually, "No Woman Born." (First in ASTOUNDING SCIENCE FICTION, 1944.) Catherine Moore retired after the premature death of her husband and frequent collaborator, Henry Kuttner, in 1958. TM -----Original Message----- From: Lesley Hall [mailto:lesleyah@PRIMEX.CO.UK] > I remember a sf story I read about a very beautiful and famous dancer whose > body was destroyed by fire, and doctors placed her brain in a tasteful, > aesthetic but metallic body. From the POV of one of her best friends, it was > about the decision whether to perform again or not, whether the audience > would accept her or find her grotesque, whether SHE could accept her new body > or found it grotesque, It wasn't contemporary written at least 2 decades ago C L Moore, 'Of Woman Born' - 1940s or 50s to my recollection. (At least, I don't think she was still active in the 60s) -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:38:33 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Vivian Lee Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: <3A40BF07.4DFB707D@uni-trier.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In Greg Egan's novel _Distress_ , the future contains a group of people described as 'asex' (asexual) who willingly render themselves sexless through surgery.. as a means of protest. If I recall correctly there were some depictions of transgendered people as well, (M to F and vice versa). It's been a few years since I read _Distress_ but I personally recommend it to anyone; it was a great read. Vivian > Dear all, > > I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I > would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the > body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was > asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am > caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be > for me) > > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > > Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) > to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. > Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, > robots) > I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. > > Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! > > Dunja Mohr > PhD candidate > English Department > University of Trier > Germany > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:41:03 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Vivian Lee Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: <3A40BF07.4DFB707D@uni-trier.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oops. I almost forgot this; long ago when I was into Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover novels, I recall a group of people called 'enmasca'... considered freaks by those with gender identities because of their sexlessness.. Anyone out there remember this well enough to expound on it? Vivian > Dear all, > > I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I > would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the > body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was > asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am > caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be > for me) > > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > > Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) > to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. > Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, > robots) > I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. > > Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! > > Dunja Mohr > PhD candidate > English Department > University of Trier > Germany > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:24:40 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dave Samuelson Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies: Hall after Shanahan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, Catherine Moore did not retire from writing (she continued to write screenplays) or from science fiction (she gave talks and workshops), but she did retire from writing science fiction after the death of her longtime collaborator. Dave Samuelson Todd Mason wrote: > Actually, "No Woman Born." (First in ASTOUNDING SCIENCE FICTION, 1944.) > Catherine Moore retired after the premature death of her husband and > frequent collaborator, Henry Kuttner, in 1958. TM > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lesley Hall [mailto:lesleyah@PRIMEX.CO.UK] > > > I remember a sf story I read about a very beautiful > and famous dancer whose > > body was destroyed by fire, and doctors placed her > brain in a tasteful, > > aesthetic but metallic body. From the POV of one of > her best friends, it was > > about the decision whether to perform again or not, > whether the audience > > would accept her or find her grotesque, whether SHE > could accept her new body > > or found it grotesque, It wasn't contemporary > written at least 2 decades ago > > C L Moore, 'Of Woman Born' - 1940s or 50s to my > recollection. (At least, I don't think she was still > active in the 60s) > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:40:06 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies: Samuelson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Fair enough. Under the (false?) impression she was mostly a script "doctor." More money in it, and probably not too much less satisfaction at the time. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Samuelson [mailto:dnsmlsn@CSULB.EDU] Actually, Catherine Moore did not retire from writing (she continued to write screenplays) or from science fiction (she gave talks and workshops), but she did retire from writing science fiction after the death of her longtime collaborator. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:02:29 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joyce Jones Subject: Brosnan, Harlin team for 'Thunder' I just read this story, based on this groups recommendation, and don't remember thinking of Pierce Brosnan. Joyce Brosnan, Harlin team for 'Thunder' LOS ANGELES (The Hollywood Reporter) - Pierce Brosnan and Renny Harlin are teaming on a big-screen adaptation of Ray Bradbury's short story "A Sound of Thunder." The pair are in final negotiations to star in and direct, respectively, the time-travel project for Franchise Pictures. The filmmakers hope to bring the project before cameras during the first quarter, before a possible actors strike. The project reteams Harlin with Franchise, where he most recently directed the upcoming Sylvester Stallone starrer "Driven." Adapted by Thomas Dean Donnelly and Joshua Oppenheimer, "Thunder" is about a game hunter who goes on a time-traveling safari to hunt dinosaurs in the prehistoric era. When confronted by a tyrannosaurus, he loses his nerve, stumbles off the appointed path and inadvertently changes history. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:23:29 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Brosnan, Harlin team for 'Blunder': Jones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Look forward to much bloat in this adaptation of a brief, well-honed short story. -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Jones [mailto:hoop5@LVCM.COM] I just read this story, based on this groups recommendation, and don't remember thinking of Pierce Brosnan. Brosnan, Harlin team for 'Thunder' LOS ANGELES (The Hollywood Reporter) - Pierce Brosnan and Renny Harlin are teaming on a big-screen adaptation of Ray Bradbury's short story "A Sound of Thunder." -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:29:57 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Margaret Poore Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies:emmasca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in reference to MZBradley's emmasca: In the Darkover universe the source of much of the psi powers of the elite caste, the Comyn, came from early crossbreeding between the humans and a native race called the chieri. The chieri were serially hermaphroditic; becoming male or female depending upon the gender of the human they were with (a little like Ursula LeGuin's people on the planet Winter in the novel The Left Hand of Darkness). A side effect of this genetic heritage is that sometimes a child would be born which never developed into either male or female and tended to live extremely long; much as the chieri, who were practically immortal. Some of the Comyn rulers were emmasca, which caused succession problems. None of these emmasca ever play a prominent role in any of the stories or novels, that I can recall. A second type of emmasca were women who had undergone a drastic surgical procedure - highly secret and illegal - which removed all female organs. The most prominent of the emmasca in the Darkover novels is Camilla, a Renunciate who is one of the main characters in City of Sorcery and who appears in other novels and stories as well. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:49:13 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: woltonb Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many of the novels of Jeff Noon (especially Vurt) include hybrid or modified people, including half human half robots. He also wrote a novel called The Automated Alice which features a robotic Alice in Wonderland. These novels are very contemporary, but are not quite your usual 'Cyborg' idea. Not sure who publishes Noon outside the UK though. Michelle Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: Dunja Mohr To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:15 PM Subject: [*FSFFU*] Query: hybrid bodies > Dear all, > > I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I > would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the > body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was > asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am > caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be > for me) > > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > > Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) > to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. > Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, > robots) > I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. > > Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! > > Dunja Mohr > PhD candidate > English Department > University of Trier > Germany > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:21:15 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: <3A40BF07.4DFB707D@uni-trier.de> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John Varley's works of the '70s and '80's included people switching from male to female and back on a fairly regular basis. -l. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:36:47 -0500 Reply-To: scolling@julian.uwo.ca Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sharon Collingwood Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget Virginia Woolf's ORLANDO Dunja Mohr wrote: > > Dear all, > > I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I > would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the > body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was > asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am > caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be > for me) > > I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body > (e.g. > human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English > literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st > Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > > Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) > to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. > Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, > robots) > I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. > > Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! > > Dunja Mohr > PhD candidate > English Department > University of Trier > Germany > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:47:27 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Dall Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dunja Mohr wrote: >I would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the >body as locus of cultural trans-difference...I am to research changing >images, representations of the hybrid body (e.g.human/machine, >transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English literature and cultural >practice from the Renaissance to the 21st Century in the light of gender >and body discourses. Dunja, I'd like to help, but I must confess I'm having difficulty understanding the parameters of your project. What on earth is "cultural trans-difference"? Are you making a clear distinction between cultural and other kinds, eg "biological" of trans-difference? If so, does genetic engineering constitute cultural or biological trans-difference? And what is "a locus of trans-difference" anyway? A place at which differences are overcome? A place at which different differences meet? Since you are interested in hybrid bodies, I assume you are using something similar to my second, somewhat clumsy, definition, of a place where different umm, qualities?, meet. Perhaps fusing, perhaps existing in uneasy relation. I can understand human/machine and human/animal hybrid bodies, hermaphrodism makes sense, but I have difficulty seeing transvestism, bisexuality and androgyny as hybrid examples of _the body_, without a much more flexible definition of "the body" than I am used to. Anyway, suggestions from my nitpicking and limited perspective. * I heartily recommend Maire's suggestion of Octavia Butler's later Xenogenesis books, for a fascinating exploration of human/alien hybridity. * Theory-wise, anything Donna Haraway has ever written, especially the "Cyborg Manifesto" and an essay published in Grossberg's _Cultural Studies_ called, I think, "Promising Monsters". * Michel Foucault has written a piece about a 17th or 18th century hermaphrodite. I haven't read it and can't remember its name, but from what I've heard about it, it would probably be useful to your project. Can't think of much else off the top of my head, particularly older stuff. There are interracial marriages in Shakespeare, but I can't think of anything that explores the experiences of a child of such a marriage, or even mentions such a child's existence. Will let you know if anything else occurs to me. Kate. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:23:27 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:38 AM 12/20/00 -0700, "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: > >You might check out THE SILVER METAL LOVER by Tanith Lee. And METROPOLIS by >(crikey, I can't believe I forgot the name!). > Thea von Harbou (sp?) Neil -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:33:16 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: <3A40BF07.4DFB707D@uni-trier.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:15 PM 12/20/00 +0100, Dunja Mohr wrote: > >I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body >(e.g. >human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English >literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st >Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > I don't know if it will ad to what ou are trying to do, but there is another dimension to the 50 years you are covering. "Childhood" was "invented" in the Renaissance. (It is notorious that in medieval paintings, children are miniature adults, not the differently proportioned bodies we see tham as.) "Adolescence" was invented in the later nineteenth century. We may be at the invention of yet another stage, "between college and kids," running for another decade after adolescence. The first two are pretty well documented; the last is my own observation. Please let us know how your work goes! Neil Rest -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:50:03 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's right- I actually just started reading this a couple of weeks ago, but t haven't got too far, just because of every thing else I am also reading. As part of the background on the future society that the plot takes place, the 2 sexes have differentiated into O think about 5 genders via genetic alterations (extremely simply achieved). I cant remember the names for them all, they are something like nfem and nmas (normal, unaltered man and woman) and then there asex- a group that, as a political protest, renounce their sex, from either just adopting an asexual name and clothes, to becoming literally physically asexual. Then, to either extreme, there are the sexes something like efem and emas- that enhance their sexual characteristics- I only got so far in the book as encountering briefly a male one- he had bulging muscles, aggressive stance etc- as a protest against the perceived weakness and increasing emasculation of the male sex. Would the short story collection 'Not of Woman Born' be any use- the first story in that is about young man who has had had cougar added to his genetic mix. Not sure where I read it- maybe in 'Not of Woman Born'? - a short story about a future where some extremely ...eccentric person has released a virus which as resulted in three sexes. The male (as per normal) the female (with ovipositor, instead of vagina, a long thin organ which uncurls at arousal) and the third entirely new sex, with appearance approximating a eunuch ie tall, feminine face, no breasts, but with vagina which of course I have forgotten the name of, which acts as the 'mixing bowl' the man and woman stand (or lie) to front of back of the third, and insert their respective organs, releasing their respective gametes. The third then has some mechanism which determines the genetic suitability of the potential offspring, and if it turns out to be a good mix, will allow fertilisation- the third then carries the resulting baby to term. Doesn't really seem fair to the third sex.. I can't remember the name and author, but I have the book handy, so if you are interested I will find out for you. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:54:23 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They were women who had basically had such a horrific time of it in Darkover's patriarchal and feudal society, that they had undergone a primitive surgical procedure to remove their female sex organs ie breasts and vagina. And subsequently may pass as men, or 'youths' ie older boys, or if they are lucky come across the Free Amazons. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:03:15 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Candioglos, Sandy" Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > We may be at the invention of yet another stage, "between college and > kids," running for another decade after adolescence. Of course, that still presupposes that everyone has kids, sooner or later. The number of people CHOOSING not to have any children at all is increasing drastically as people in the USA grow up who have never known a time when abortion was illegal and when safe effective contraception wasn't realistically available to just about anyone. Please don't assume that "kids" is something everyone arrives at eventually; the latest numbers are something like 19% of women age 40 in this country have never had a child (don't quote me on that; I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what I remember seeing). -Sandy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:52:29 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Maire Shanahan wrote: > That's right- I actually just started reading this a couple of weeks ago, but > t haven't got too far, just because of every thing else I am also reading. As > part of the background on the future society that the plot takes place, the 2 > sexes have differentiated into O think about 5 genders via genetic > alterations (extremely simply achieved). I cant remember the names for them > all, they are something like nfem and nmas (normal, unaltered man and woman) > and then there asex- a group that, as a political protest, renounce their > sex, from either just adopting an asexual name and clothes, to becoming > literally physically asexual. Then, to either extreme, there are the sexes > something like efem and emas- that enhance their sexual characteristics- I > only got so far in the book as encountering briefly a male one- he had > bulging muscles, aggressive stance etc- as a protest against the perceived > weakness and increasing emasculation of the male sex. The SHADOW MAN by Melissa Scott? > Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:35:47 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/20/2000 9:32:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, NeilRest@ENTERACT.COM writes: << > >You might check out THE SILVER METAL LOVER by Tanith Lee. And METROPOLIS by >(crikey, I can't believe I forgot the name!). > Thea von Harbou (sp?) Neil >> Also by Tanith Lee there is _Biting the Sun_. It deals with a culture that can get a new body when the previous one dies. So if you are a female and then deicide to become male, all you have to do is commit suicide. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:37:46 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And equally- don't forget that portion of the population who arrive at the 2 stages at the same time - I am a student and a mother. By the way- just as you should not assume that parenthood is universal, you should definitely not assume that everyone goes to college. At least you can make a choice not to have children (unless you are infertile). College, or university is not an option for everyone. I think that society likes to fondly imagine that most people go through this relatively carefree stage, nowadays - ie the many sitcoms featuring this sector- where they can concentrate on career etc. In fact it is just s small and privileged sector of society. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:42:04 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No... I 'm pretty sure it was Distress by Greg Egan... I should remember (don't tell me I am finally going completely bonkers) as the couple in the book live in Sydney, Australia, in a suburb about 2 kms from me. I haven't started Shadow Man yet, I just got it.... or have I... you are getting me worried. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:48:10 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh.. sorry... I realise my error now That's right- I actually just started reading this a couple of weeks ago, but > t haven't got too far, just because of every thing else I am also reading. I was adding on to someone else's post about Distress, but didn't make it clear what book I was talking about. I can well understand your thinking, given that I usually have no idea of the title or author of any book I talk about Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:25:07 +0930 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Serena Kuhl Subject: Re: Query: hybrid bodies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Storm Constantine, an English writer, has written a few books proposing variations on genders. "Hermetech" has "intersexed" individuals created by surgery, the "Wraetthu" (not sure how this is spelt) books focus on a mutated race that are formed from human men by infusing them with "Wraetthu" blood, causing them to change into an androgynous(?) race of masculine looking but child bearing "har". There's a lot of that Eighties thing of women writers creating gay male characters as a way of getting beyond the "oppressive hetrosexual paradigm" :) >From: Dunja Mohr >Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" > >To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU >Subject: [*FSFFU*] Query: hybrid bodies >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:15:35 +0100 > >Dear all, > >I am aware that most of you are off to the festive season, however, I >would be very grateful for some suggestions concerning a study of the >body as locus of cultural trans-difference. On very short notice I was >asked to submit a study proposal till the beginning of January and am >caught sort of empty handed...(not much of a x-mas holiday that will be >for me) > >I am to research changing images, representations of the hybrid body >(e.g. >human/machine, transvestism, bisexuality, androgyny) in English >literature and cultural practice from the Renaissance to the 21st >Century in the light of gender and body discourses. > >Does anyone have suggestions what other texts (drama, novels, early sf) >to look into apart from the obvious that popped up in head rightaway (M. >Shelley, E.T.A. Hoffmann, A. Carter, the Cyborg as in Gibson, Piercy, >robots) >I am especially looking for non-contemporary texts. > >Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated! > >Dunja Mohr >PhD candidate >English Department >University of Trier >Germany > >-------------------------------------------------- >This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > >Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.