From LISTSERV@listserv.uic.edu Fri Jan 26 13:39:51 2001 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:58:48 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Quilter Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0004A" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 12:28:06 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Re: Syllabi In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000331231342.007f55b0@julian.uwo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Actually I would love to start a syllabus archive on the femsf web site. So if anybody has taught classes & will give permissions for me to archive the syllabus / reading lists I would love it - let me know Laura Quilter On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, sharon collingwood wrote: > I'm just finishing teaching my Femiunist SF, and it went pretty well. If > you'd like to chat off-line, I'd be glad to give what help I can. > > Sharon Collingwood > Centre for Women's Studies and Feminist Research > University of Western Ontario > > At 09:52 PM 3/31/00 EST, you wrote: > >I would like to thank you all for the feedback that I've gotten from this > >list. I am new to the field of Feminist SF & F, so regrettably I cannot > >return the favor...yet. :) I have another question though: > > > >Does anyone know where I can get my hands (or my web viewer) on information > >that might help me to design a Feminist SF & F class? Names of instructors > >or universities that offer the class already would even be helpful. I tried > >a search through Dogpile, but it wasn't very helpful. > > > >I am pushing Chico State (a tiny California College) to offer a Feminist SF & > >F literature class. I have a couple of Feminist Literature instructors that > >are willing to teach the course, but I'd like to help them in developing the > >course itself. And if we can show the "higher-ups" that other institutions > >offer the course, then it might help to convince them that we need to add > >this course to our curriculum. > > > >Again, many thanks! joanie > > > Sharon Collingwood > Centre for Women's Studies and Feminist Research > University of Western Ontario > London, Ontario > Laura Quilter lauraq@exploratorium.edu ph: 415.353.0465 / 415.561.0343 Learning Center Facilities Manager Exploratorium, San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 00:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Amazon.com (was Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominiation Comments: To: FEMINISTSF@uic.edu Comments: cc: feministsf-lit@uic.edu In-Reply-To: <001501bf9df5$f96bc080$5b3f45cf@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:23 AM 4/4/00, you wrote: >I nominate _The Divided_ by Katie Waitman.1999, Ballantine (Del Rey). $12.95 >PB. ISBN 0345414373. I recommened on-line ordering from Powells.com for >those of you who like to support independents. (someone told me that Amazon >owns Bibliofind. Can anyone confirm or deny this?) (original message posted to the on-topic list at feministsf-lit@uic.edu, please post all replies to the off-topic list at feministsf@uic.edu) Yes, Amazon.com bought Bibliofind. See (http://www.bibliofind.com/news.htm). I've heard some scary things about Amazon.com's (http://www.amazon.com) actions in the trial/settlement with Amazon Bookstore (http://www.amazonfembks.com/) - can anyone confirm that Amazon.com acted in a distinctly anti-feminist way during that dispute? p.s. I have ordered a few things from Amazon Bookstore and their customer service and delivery times are good. Powells is a good independent bookseller as well, though I've never used their online ordering. ----- Librarians - Information Technology Leaders since 3000 BC Chris Shaffer http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ chris@bsinc.net AIM:ChrisShaff ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Trudy Mercer Subject: Re: Syllabi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Joanie, I have quite a few links to courses & syllabi that are online on my website: http://drizzle.com/~tmercer/fsfsff/reference/courses.shtml There are also links to study guides & some info on teachining on other pages (just follow the links...) Good luck!! Trudy --- Joanie Bassler wrote: > I would like to thank you all for the feedback that I've gotten from this > list. I am new to the field of Feminist SF & F, so regrettably I cannot > return the favor...yet. :) I have another question though: > > Does anyone know where I can get my hands (or my web viewer) on information > that might help me to design a Feminist SF & F class? Names of instructors > or universities that offer the class already would even be helpful. I tried > a search through Dogpile, but it wasn't very helpful. > > I am pushing Chico State (a tiny California College) to offer a Feminist SF & > F literature class. I have a couple of Feminist Literature instructors that > are willing to teach the course, but I'd like to help them in developing the > course itself. And if we can show the "higher-ups" that other institutions > offer the course, then it might help to convince them that we need to add > this course to our curriculum. > > Again, many thanks! joanie > ===== *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* Trudy Mercer tmercer00@yahoo.com http://geocities.com/SoHo/Study/9137/ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:17:51 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Re: Amazon.com (was Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amazon.com anti-feminist? What, you mean things like claiming that the sexuality of staff members and the focus of the original Amazon's books meant they weren't really able to serve the community at large, $hit like that? Maryelizabeth -- Maryelizabeth Hart Publicity Manager ****************************************************************** Mysterious Galaxy Local Phone: 858.268.4747 3904 Convoy Street, #107 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:53:41 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: sharon collingwood Subject: Re: Amazon.com (was Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominiation In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20000404004947.00b50e00@tigger.cc.uic.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's what Holt Uncensored had to say about it at the time of the trial. The outcome of the trial was that they settled out of court, so we don't know all the details, but I believe Amazon Bookstore got money & permission to keep using their name (very big of AZ.com). The gossip I heard about it from other feminist booksellers is that Amazon was extremely piggy about the whole thing (never mind the rampant homophobia). Sharon P.S. "Bezos" is an anagram of "Lezbos" with only the "l" missing. Obviously a very suspicious character, eh? >*************************** >I've heard some scary things about Amazon.com's (http://www.amazon.com) >actions in the trial/settlement with Amazon Bookstore >(http://www.amazonfembks.com/) - can anyone confirm that Amazon.com acted >in a distinctly anti-feminist way during that dispute? > >p.s. I have ordered a few things from Amazon Bookstore and their customer >service and delivery times are good. Powells is a good independent >bookseller as well, though I've never used their online ordering. > ****************************** >HOLT UNCENSORED > >To New Readers: "Holt Uncensored" is a free online column about books and >the book industry written by former San Francisco Chronicle book editor and >critic Pat Holt. You can subscribe or "unsubscribe" by >clicking http://www.nciba.com/patholt.html . > >Contents for Holt Uncensored #100 >Tuesday, October 19, 1999: > >AMAZON V. AMAZON: > SEX, LIES AND DEPOSITIONS >LETTERS > >-------- > > >AMAZON V. AMAZON: > SEX, LIES AND DEPOSITIONS > >So here's the scene: One of the five owners of Amazon Bookstore in >Minneapolis - the oldest feminist bookstore in the country - is being >deposed by lawyers representing Amazon.com, the online bookseller based in >Seattle - when a very strange thing happens. > >Q (AMAZON.COM LAWYER): Have you had any particular interest in feminism? >A (AMAZON BOOKSTORE CO-OWNER): Yes. >Q: Dating back to when? >MR. SAMUEL (Amazon Bookstore lawyer): Objection, Vague. >A. I don't know. I don't remember. >Q. Seventies, college, before? >A. Possibly. >Q. Have you had any interest in promoting lesbian ideals in the community? >MR. SAMUEL: Object to the question as vague. Also it's completely >irrelevant. >A. I don't know exactly. Can you be a little clearer? >Q. I'll ask you this, are you gay? [To Mr. Samuel] And let me say this, >Matt, you know the objections. I understand you have a job to do, and I'm >going to ignore you for the rest of the deposition . . . > >Good heavens. As you may remember (see #80), Amazon Bookstore (founded in >1970) is suing Amazon.com (founded in 1995) for trademark infringement. The >Minneapolis bookstore contends that it has lost money for years because of >confusion created by customers and vendors who mistake Amazon Bookstore for >Amazon.com. Attempts by Amazon Bookstore to find a peaceful solution through >talks with Amazon.com were rebuffed, they say, and they sued. > >So now: What does sexual orientation have to do with trademark infringement? >Let's get back to the deposition after a number of objections and >discussions have followed. > >Q: In 1987, was the purpose of the entity for which you worked to just sell >books for profit? >A: We sell books to stay in business for a profit, yeah. I guess I would say >that. >Q: You sell books, but has the purpose remained the same since 1987? >A: The purpose is - has been to sell books. >Q: Nothing else? >A: Not in my opinion. >Q. Okay. . . Are any of the employees at the Bookstore gay, and forgive me >for asking this question. >MR. SAMUEL: I'm going to object to the question as irrelevant. Calls for >speculation. >A: You're asking me to speculate on my coworkers' sexuality, is that the >question? >Q: I'm asking if you know. > >And here the Amazon.com lawyer inserts what is to him an analogy that will >explain all. > >Q: I think, for example, if I tell people or introduce them to my wife and >tell them this is my wife, I'm married to her, if somebody asks me if I'm >married or asks somebody else to whom I've just introduced my wife whether >I'm married, that person can say yeah, he's married, to my knowledge to a >woman. >So I'm asking you if you know if any of the individuals that you work for >are gay to your knowledge. > >MR. SAMUEL: Counsel, that's an absurd comparison, and you know that. You're >not asking - you can ask her if any of the women at the Bookstore are >married. >Q: You accused me of stereotypes. What's the difference of being married to >a man or woman? Essentially, that's what I'm asking. Do you know if any of >the women at the Bookstore, are any of the women at the bookstore married to >a woman? >A: It's not legal to be married to a woman. >Q: Do they have partners? > >We don't know from this public record if everyone laughed out loud at the >Amazon.com's lawyer's confusion over what his wife is doing in a story >that's supposed to elicit answers about gay identity. > >But let's give some points to the Amazon Bookstore co-owner for helpfully >pointing out something he should know as a lawyer - that women can't be >married to one another. Why >she doesn't bonk him on the head with a law book is a puzzlement. > >And what any of this has to do with trademark infringement is a mystery. >Could it be that Amazon.com has no defense, and its lawyers know it? > >Ah, but the next day the Amazon.com lawyer is fresh and anxious to do the >right thing as he begins deposing another co-owner of Amazon Bookstore, to >whom he shows a document. > >Q: You see in the E-mail it states, all the owners at this time of Amazon >Bookstore Cooperative and historically have been all lesbians. Do you see >that? >A: No. Where is that? >Q: Is that an accurate statement, to your knowledge? I don't mean to ask a >personal question, and I apologize for doing so. >MR. SAMUEL: Yeah. Just hold on for a second. . . >(OBJECTIONS AND OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSIONS FOLLOW) >Q: Do you know whether any of the current owners or employees of Amazon >Bookstore Cooperative are partners? >MR. SAMUEL: Same objection . . . this question is invasive, and it's clearly >irrelevant. (MORE OBJECTIONS) > >Finally the Amazon.com lawyer decides to state why he thinks the question is >relevant. He stops the proceedings and says the following: > >"I think it's important, as I said yesterday, that a jury understands how >Amazon Bookstore Cooperative represents itself to the public, and I think as >part of that, it's important for the jury to know, for example, whether the >people who work in the Bookstore have a particular sexual orientation >because obviously from the perspective of my client, we think that's >important to the case, the defense's case, and that is one of the grounds >for relevance." > >You can skip the rest of his explanation, but in deference to what I think >he is trying to say I've transcribed it anyway: > >"And on the question of whether people are partners, in deposing people, >and if we continue to depose employees at the Bookstore, I would certainly >like to know if they have a relationship with somebody else at the >Bookstore. And it would be more likely than not that they would have access >to the same information, similar to a man and a woman who are married." > >Well, there he goes again (not listening to yesterday's witness, by the >way), though it's clear he's not comfortable with the line of questioning >and has one thing further to say: > >"And, again, I don't take any pleasure in asking these questions, and from >my perspective, I ask them - to me, it's like asking somebody if they have >red hair. I don't particularly put a label on somebody because they have a >particular sexual orientation. To me if you're married, it doesn't matter if >you're married as a man and a woman, woman and woman or man and a man." > >So that's very gracious of Amazon.com's lawyer, and we're sure the co-owners >of Amazon Bookstore, who had to sit through many days of questions and >assumptions >that were just as irrelevant as these, felt a lot better when he explained >himself. > >Meanwhile, it's worth looking at such testimony to appreciate why the court >makes these kinds of depositions public: If Amazon.com thinks it's playing >some >kind of hardball by disclosing the sexual identity and relationships of the >staff of Amazon Bookstore, we should know it. > >And we should know that all of these questions are being asked not just by >some attorney fishing for bait he can use later but "from the perspective of >my client," which is to say the people who own and operate Amazon.com. > >Can't you see some strategist in a back room somewhere suddenly looking as >if the light has dawned. Say, he says to himself, these women are dykes! We >can't lose! Our 'defense' is proof they're a bunch of lezbos and we walk >away with the trial! > >Otherwise, why ask how "the Amazon Bookstore Cooperative represents itself >to the public" when it's clear on every identifying statement made by that >store that it's a feminist bookstore? Its website is >http://www.amazonFEMBKS.com (emphasis mine). Its purpose is the >same as every other independent bookstore in the country - to "sell books to >stay in business for a profit" as the co-owner testified. Of course it >sells a lot of lesbian books - so does Amazon.com! > >To Matt Samuel, the Amazon Bookstore lawyer who appears to be getting madder >and madder during the depositions, "this line of questioning by Amazon.com >borders on the outrageous," as he said on the phone yesterday. To stop it, >on October 8 he moved for a protective order "to prevent Defendant >Amazon.com from inquiring into the sexual orientation or relationships of >any witness in >this case." > >In this motion, Samuel makes the astute observation that >"under Amazon.com's view of the law, Amazon Bookstore could and should have >asked Amazon.com's President, Jeff Bezos, if he is gay or straight, and >whether he is sleeping with anyone in his company who also might be a >witness. > >"One would think that both Mr. Bezos and his counsel would have taken >offense at this line of questioning, and refused to answer. The principals >of Amazon Bookstore are entitled to every bit as much respect and protection >from harassment as Mr. Bezos." > >So come on, Jeff, one wants to say: Call off the dogs. This suit is a >legitimate attempt to determine trademark infringement. It's not about >anything else. If you think it is, you're not fighting fair. (And by the >way, have you ever had a boyfriend?) > >Note: The hearing on this motion is set for October 27. Anyone who'd like to >contribute to the Amazon Bookstore Legal Defense Fund can send checks >to the store (Amazon Bookstore, 1612 Harmon Place, Minneapolis MI 55403. >Should Amazon Bookstore win or settle the suit, all donations will be >returned. You can also buy AmazonNOTcom buttons ($2 each plus .75) or >t-shirts ($18 plus $4 shipping & handling) that say "I support the original >Amazon Bookstore. Since 1970" by contacting amazon@amazonfembks.com . Sharon Collingwood Centre for Women's Studies and Feminist Research University of Western Ontario London, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 02:01:01 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lee Chalmers Subject: Re: Amazon.com (was Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, what exactly is the claim against Amazon here? Details please.... Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Maryelizabeth Hart To: Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Amazon.com (was Re: [*FSF-L*] BDG Nominiation > Amazon.com anti-feminist? What, you mean things like claiming that the > sexuality of staff members and the focus of the original Amazon's books > meant they weren't really able to serve the community at large, $hit > like that? > > Maryelizabeth > > > -- > > Maryelizabeth Hart > Publicity Manager > > ****************************************************************** > Mysterious Galaxy Local Phone: 858.268.4747 > 3904 Convoy Street, #107 Fax: 858.268.4775 > San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 > http://www.mystgalaxy.com Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com > ****************************************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:06:41 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dunja Mohr Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Universit=E4t?= Trier Subject: Room-Sharing at WisCon 24, Madison Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU, iafa-l@ebbs.english.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4C61EAF66D74151180C5CFDB" --------------4C61EAF66D74151180C5CFDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** Apologies for any cross-postings*** Hi there, if you are female and going to attend the feminist SF gathering WisCon 24 in Madison, Wisconsin, on Memorial Weekend the 26-29th of May 2000, or know of any women friends attending, and are willing to share a room (the flat rate is 83 $), please contact me off-list. Dunja Mohr __________________ University of Trier English Department Germany mohrd@uni-trier.de --------------4C61EAF66D74151180C5CFDB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** Apologies for any cross-postings***

Hi there,

if you are female and going to attend the feminist SF gathering WisCon 24 in Madison, Wisconsin, on Memorial Weekend the 26-29th of May 2000, or know of  any women friends attending, and are willing to share a room (the flat rate is 83 $), please contact me off-list.
 

Dunja Mohr
__________________
University of Trier
English Department
Germany

mohrd@uni-trier.de
 
  --------------4C61EAF66D74151180C5CFDB-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:32:16 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sofia Oliveira MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9F4E.CC142140" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9F4E.CC142140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is feminist literature a genre in itself? Sofia Oliveira ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9F4E.CC142140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is feminist literature a genre in=20 itself?
 
Sofia = Oliveira
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BF9F4E.CC142140-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:12:48 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Define genre? -----Original Message----- From: Sofia Oliveira [mailto:sofia@SOLIVEIRA.FSNET.CO.UK] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 5:32 PM To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Subject: [*FSFFU*] Is feminist literature a genre in itself? Sofia Oliveira ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:51:10 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Trudy Mercer Subject: Genre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My dictionary of literary terms states that "A literary genre is a recognizable and established category of written work employing such common conventions as will preent readers or audiences from istaking it for another kind. Much of the confusion surroundg the term arrises fromteh fact that it isused simultaneously for the most basic modes of literary art (lyric, narrativedramatic), for the broades categories of compositin (poetry, Prose fiction), and for more specialized sub-categories, which are defined according to several different criteria including formal structure...length...iintention,...effect,...origin, and subject-matter.... While some genres, such as the pastoral elegy or the melodrama, havenumerous conventions governing subject, style, and form, others--like thenovel--have no agreed rules, although they may include more limited subgenres." I suspect that some might consider feminist literature a genre, but that it would be contested by others. I consider science fiction a genre, and feminist science fiction a subgenre because it is type of science fiction. Is there a particular reason or argument you are trying to make in classing feminist literature as a genre? Trudy Mercer --- Todd Mason wrote: > Define genre? > > Is feminist literature a genre in itself? > > Sofia Oliveira > ===== *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* Trudy Mercer tmercer00@yahoo.com http://geocities.com/SoHo/Study/9137/ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:24:46 PDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Daniel Krashin Subject: Re: Genre Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Sofia Oliveira >Subject: >Is feminist literature a genre in itself? FWIW, I think there are a lot of different definitions of "genre" floating around. As a working writer (part-time, unfortunately) I sometimes find it more helpful to think in terms of "market category" rather than genre (which is an academic, even philosophical term). Women's literature certainly seems to be a market category, as evidenced by the existence of "women's bookstores". Also, every used bookstore I know has a "Women's" section. This suggests to me that there is a readership out there that consciously is looking for "women's literature." However, I also think the publishers group books into smaller niches: Romance, Lesbian, Women's Self-help, Feminist theory... and "Books mentioned by Oprah" probably fit in there somewhere, too. Danny ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:58:54 +0100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sofia Oliveira MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF9FF1.C5DD1B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF9FF1.C5DD1B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is feminist literature in itself? Genre: a French term for a kind, a literary type or class. The major = Classical genres were: epic, tragedy, lyric, comedy and satire, to which = would now be added novel and short story. From the Renaissance and until = well on into the 18th century the genres were carefully distinguished, = and writers were expected to follow the rules prescribed for them Cuddon = (1999). Sofia Oliveira ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF9FF1.C5DD1B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Is feminist literature in = itself?
 

Genre:=20 a French term for a kind, a literary type or class. The major = Classical=20 genres were: epic, tragedy, lyric, comedy and satire, to which would now = be=20 added novel and short story. From the Renaissance and until well on into = the=20 18th century the genres were carefully distinguished, and = writers=20 were expected to follow the rules prescribed for them Cuddon=20 (1999).

Sofia = Oliveira

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BF9FF1.C5DD1B80-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:13:45 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Using the model of Classical genre referred to below, I've followed Algis Budrys in suggesting that genre seems, at least, to imply a single model; if that's the case, then no, neither feminist literature nor science fiction nor Speculative Fiction is a genre, the way a novel can be said to be (fairly broadly these days) or a bildungsroman or locked-room mystery can be said to be...or so I say. -----Original Message----- From: Sofia Oliveira [mailto:sofia@SOLIVEIRA.FSNET.CO.UK] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:59 PM To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Subject: [*FSFFU*] Is feminist literature in itself? Genre: a French term for a kind, a literary type or class. The major Classical genres were: epic, tragedy, lyric, comedy and satire, to which would now be added novel and short story. From the Renaissance and until well on into the 18th century the genres were carefully distinguished, and writers were expected to follow the rules prescribed for them Cuddon (1999). Sofia Oliveira ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:45:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Genre: Mercer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Whereas, not solely to be difficult, I tend to think of sf as a collection of genres with some work, admittedly not much, which is sui generis. SF, which encompasses sf in my philosophy, same but moreso. Feminist lit can only be a genre if the term is very broad, essentially synonymous with "type". Then good luck, as with all such things, deciding what does and doesn't qualify. -----Original Message----- From: Trudy Mercer [mailto:tmercer00@YAHOO.COM] My dictionary of literary terms states that "A literary genre is a recognizable and established category of written work employing such common conventions as will preent readers or audiences from istaking it for another kind. Much of the confusion surroundg the term arrises fromteh fact that it isused simultaneously for the most basic modes of literary art (lyric, narrativedramatic), for the broades categories of compositin (poetry, Prose fiction), and for more specialized sub-categories, which are defined according to several different criteria including formal structure...length...iintention,...effect,...origin, and subject-matter.... While some genres, such as the pastoral elegy or the melodrama, havenumerous conventions governing subject, style, and form, others--like thenovel--have no agreed rules, although they may include more limited subgenres." I suspect that some might consider feminist literature a genre, but that it would be contested by others. I consider science fiction a genre, and feminist science fiction a subgenre because it is type of science fiction. Is there a particular reason or argument you are trying to make in classing feminist literature as a genre? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:50:13 +0200 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Anne GASPARD Subject: Re: Genre: Mercer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Couldn't we consider that the implicit political nature of feminist SF is making a genre of it, just like utopia/dystopia (which is the origin of SF to me) ? Description of an unpleasant to horrific world / transformation of the world / description of a better world (and its variations : visit of an utopian born traveller = vision of a feminist/strong female character in the normal world ; critics of the actual world but no better world at bay ; flashback explaining the imaginary better world ; etc) are quite frequent figures of feminist SF and Utopia as well. In this case we could enlarge the picture and consider political or critical SF of any kind as belonging to that trend. We should also admit that SF is not an united genre in itself. For example, Heroic fantasy, space op, etc would be derived from "adventure fiction" , just like the "western" books of the 50's (?), exotic novels, pirates novels, part of the crime novels, etc.( Not that I want to put "adventure fiction" down. It can be just great. But its aim is different.). But what to do with all that SF we can consider feminist because of the heroin, because of what we know of the author, because of the interpretation we can make of an apparently patriarcal book (typical exemple for the french readers : Gilles Thomas aka Julia Verlanger), etc, all the SF that is not openly analytic or critical ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd Mason To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Genre: Mercer > Whereas, not solely to be difficult, I tend to think of sf as a collection > of genres with some work, admittedly not much, which is sui generis. SF, > which encompasses sf in my philosophy, same but moreso. Feminist lit can > only be a genre if the term is very broad, essentially synonymous with > "type". Then good luck, as with all such things, deciding what does and > doesn't qualify. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trudy Mercer [mailto:tmercer00@YAHOO.COM] > My dictionary of literary terms states that > > "A literary genre is a recognizable and established category of written work > employing such common conventions as will preent readers or audiences from > istaking it for another kind. Much of the confusion surroundg the term > arrises > fromteh fact that it isused simultaneously for the most basic modes of > literary > art (lyric, narrativedramatic), for the broades categories of compositin > (poetry, Prose fiction), and for more specialized sub-categories, which are > defined according to several different criteria including formal > structure...length...iintention,...effect,...origin, and subject-matter.... > While some genres, such as the pastoral elegy or the melodrama, havenumerous > conventions governing subject, style, and form, others--like thenovel--have > no > agreed rules, although they may include more limited subgenres." > > I suspect that some might consider feminist literature a genre, but that it > would be contested by others. I consider science fiction a genre, and > feminist > science fiction a subgenre because it is type of science fiction. > > Is there a particular reason or argument you are trying to make in classing > feminist literature as a genre? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:57:39 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Re: Genre: Mercer In-Reply-To: <004e01bfa009$b5bbd940$870581d4@pbncomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >But what to do with all that SF we can consider feminist because of the >heroin, The heroin? Drugs make a story feminist? Gee, guess I've been confused all along... grin ----- As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way. Chris Shaffer http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ chris@bsinc.net AIM:ChrisShaff