From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 15:29:31 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:28:05 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0101E" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:07:41 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lyle Burness Organization: Medical Society Bookshop Subject: Re: Gender Differences On-Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *smiling warily* While this listserv, for example, may be reasonably 'civilized', you can still read elements of gender (and other) disourses in posts. Actually, it would be interesting to do a little discourse analysis on some of the flaming which has occured here recently.... lyle Phoebe Wray wrote: > In a message dated 1/29/01 12:35:08 AM, scandiog@YAHOO.COM writes: > > << Do I just have an atypical-for-a-female viewpoint, or is my view skewed > from > being mostly on mailing lists that are reasonably civilized, rather than > wading > through unmoderated usenet? :) >> > > I can't answer that question, but I certainly have noticed the gender > differenes that are pointed out in this article. > > What fascinates me is how it is possible -- from syntax, sentence length etc > --to pick up emotional tags when emailing or talking to people on instant > messages. There -- I just said the magic word -- *talking*!! Of course, we > are not *talking* we are *writing*. > > More needs to be thought along these lines. > > lightly, lightly, > phoebe w > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:23:47 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: Gender Differences On-Line In-Reply-To: <200101290610.AAA19692@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: > > Here is an absolutely fascinating academic look at flaming and online > discourse: > > http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt Interesting article in several ways. It very much goes along with my experience on usenet and mailing lists in that era (I got on the net in 1993). However, I have noticed that at least on mailing lists (these days I mostly avoid usenet) standards of politeness seem to have in general risen substantially in the last 3 or 4 years. I have especially noticed far less tolerance for flamers on most mailing lists and (from what I've heard) a growing preference for moderated newsgroups. It was also very odd to read that back then usenet was around 95% male, since the most recent survey of internet use I saw indicated that women now make up ~51% of folks online. Perhaps the decrease in flaming is due to the internet becoming less male dominated (both because of women having differing communication norms and because most men communicate differently in all-male or mostly male environments). Interesting... -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:49:38 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: Gender Differences On-Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very edifying! Thanks for sharing! Amy > Here is an absolutely fascinating academic look at flaming and online > discourse: > > http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt > > > > > -l. > -- > Laura J. Mixon * ljm@digitalnoir.com * www.digitalnoir.com > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > _Proxies_: A Tor Books SF paperback Nov 1999 * ISBN 0-812-52387-3 > "At Tide's Turning:" terraforming run amok * Asimov's SF- 4/01 > _Burning the Ice_: on a Jovian moon, hi-tech mystery, betrayal & intrigue > A Tor Books hardback 2001 * watch for the webpage! > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:40:18 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Polity Differences On-Line: Snead after Mixon-Gould MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I suspect it might have more to do with the civilian, nonacademic net becoming less the exclusive province of the juvenile and socially maladapted. Which it certainly has. TM -----Original Message----- From: John Snead [mailto:sneadj@MINDSPRING.COM] "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" wrote: > > Here is an absolutely fascinating academic look at flaming and online > discourse: > > http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt It was also very odd to read that back then usenet was around 95% male, since the most recent survey of internet use I saw indicated that women now make up ~51% of folks online. Perhaps the decrease in flaming is due to the internet becoming less male dominated (both because of women having differing communication norms and because most men communicate differently in all-male or mostly male environments). -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:08:00 +1300 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jenny Rankine Subject: Gender Differences On-Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08A37.8FD323D0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08A37.8FD323D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I found this article (http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt) fascinating. I really enjoy the tone of this list. It's been encouraging, diverse and largely accepting of different viewpoints. This is so consistent that it is really noticeable when someone uses a more adversarial style of communicating. I've been on it long enough to remember three *situations* involving people who made strong, often contentions assertions, lengthy and/or frequent posts, and used an adversarial style, sarcasm and/or put-downs with anyone who disagreed with them. Interestingly enough for a women-dominated list, two of them identified themselves as men and one as a woman. One thing that was true of all three was that they didn't want to confine their opinions or their sarcasm to fssf - they wanted to have vigorous and acrimonious debate about all their hobby horses with any comers. When I see that kind of post starting up from someone now, I usually expect it to escalate into flaming fairly shortly. Jenny Rankine Aotearoa New Zealand (( ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08A37.8FD323D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [*FSFFU*] Gender Differences On-Line

I found this article (http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt) = fascinating. 

I really enjoy the tone of this list.  It's been = encouraging, diverse and largely accepting of different = viewpoints.  This is so consistent that it is really noticeable = when someone uses a more adversarial style of communicating.  =

I've been on it long enough to remember three = *situations* involving people who made strong, often contentions = assertions, lengthy and/or frequent posts, and used an adversarial = style, sarcasm and/or put-downs with anyone who disagreed with = them.  Interestingly enough for a women-dominated list, two of = them identified themselves as men and one as a woman.  One thing = that was true of all three was that they didn't want to confine their = opinions or their sarcasm to fssf - they wanted to have vigorous and = acrimonious debate about all their hobby horses with any comers.  = When I see that kind of post starting up from someone now, I usually = expect it to escalate into flaming fairly shortly.

Jenny Rankine
Aotearoa  New Zealand

((

------_=_NextPart_001_01C08A37.8FD323D0-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Zerry Frank Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -----------unsubscribe------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:14:31 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Dall Subject: Re: Pratchett and feminism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thankyou, Jane, for such a clear and considered response. I'm still not convinced that Pratchett cannot be called a feminist though. Jane Fletcher wrote: >I cannot consider Terry Pratchett to be a feminist writer. In fact, it > >would be very easy to build the case that his work is inherently >sexist. >E.g.Cheery Littlebottom ^Ñcoming out^Ò as female shows itself >almost >entirely as a wish to wear make-up. Cheery is asserting her right to look however she wants, against some very strong social expectations. She doesn't change anything about herself that would affect her competence in any way. She is resisting a cultural norm that expects her to look and act like a man in order to succeed. >Women do not occupy positions of authority in any political, religious >or >academic institutions, and never seem dissatisfied about it. While >the >wizards come off worse than the witches I am unhappy with the >equation of >male = intellectual / hierarchical, female = intuitive/ > >anti-authoritarian. As Chris has pointed out, the dwarf king turned out to be female in the _Fifth Elephant_ (although, unlike Cheery, she has had to look and act like a man to get there). But generally, I don't think the Discworld would be much use as a satire of our own culture if it was utopian - women seem to have about as much power there as they do here - and if they aren't sitting around whining about the situation, it's because they're out using all the power they do have, and getting more all the time. Nobody could argue Granny and Nanny are powerless. You could, and do, make the argument that they only wield a particularly feminine kind of power - over family, village life, etc. Even though they interfere quite regularly in public politics, this does tend to be a "power behind the throne" kind of activity. I would argue, though, that this is generational, and does not represent the kind of power the young women are aiming for, or the kind of power Granny and Nanny want them to have. Despite their overt disapproval of Magrat for thinking a queen has more power than a witch, they plotted to put her on the throne - where she quickly discovered that the queen is the most important piece on the chessboard. And Angua and Cheery are moving up the hierarchy of the Watch quite quickly, through intelligence and competence. >Women who are having social problems can invariably solve them by >marrying >the right man. I can't think of _any_ examples of this. Whom did you have in mind? >The book where Pratchett attempted to tackle sexism ^ÑEqual Rites^Ò, is >IMO >his worst book. It is several years since I read it and I don^Òt >have a >copy on hand to refer to, but my impression was that he was >saying ^Ñ Women >can^Òt compete with men in the male domain, and shouldn^Òt >try, but should >concentrate on their own fields (and marry the right >man)^Ò. I agree _Equal Rites_ is pretty bad, but then I don't like any of the early Discworld novels much. But I didn't get that impression, particularly - although, like you, I don't remember a lot about it. >However I still count myself as a Pratchett fan. His writing is marked by >enormous compassion, and a hated of intolerance, ignorance, arrogance and >cruelty. His heart is in the right place. His failings are more in the >nature of oversights. E.g. Most of his work shows no awareness that it is >possible to be homosexual ^Ö even for the dwarfs, for whom courtship >involves >burrowing through the other dwarf^Òs clothes to find out what sex they are. >However, when in ^ÑThe Last Continent^Ò, a group of drag queens make an >appearance (in tribute to ^ÑPricilla, Queen of the Desert^Ò) it is quiet >clear >that Pratchett is on their side. The butt of the jokes is Rincewind who is >too naive to realise what is going on around him. Criticism is reserved for >the hostile rednecks who start the fighting (and lose). And, personally >speaking, I can forgive virtually anything for lines like ^ÑFemale >impersonator is no job for a woman.^Ò No argument about any of that. >Terry Pratchett is on the side on the underdog. He is a moral writer, but >he >doesn^Òt go for a simplistic story of good versus evil or right versus >wrong, >but the human muddle of righter versus wronger. Even his bad characters are >more to be pitied than despised. The overwhelming feel of his writing is >that he likes the human race and wants the best for it, unlike Octavia >Butler who give the impression she thinks the human race deserves whatever >it gets. It might be argued that it is easy for Pratchett to be complacent >since he is white, male and heterosexual, unlike Butler, who isn^Òt. However >I match Butler on two counts out of three, and I still feel vastly more >comfortable with Pratchett^Òs world view. > >Jane Or that, as regards Pratchett. A few hours in the Discworld always makes me feel better about the world - and almost convinces me that those in power actually care about the underdogs of the world (even Gaspode). However, I am more than a little suspicious that Pratchett is catering to my fantasies, while Butler is telling it like it is. Kate. >-------------------------------------------------- >This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for >discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To >unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > >Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:41:54 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Terri Subject: Last Call for Votes Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" If you haven't voted yet for your choices for the next four BDG reads, you have until midnight tonight EST. :o) Instructions for voting are below........ Thanks! Terri Wakefield Please send your votes for your FOUR (4) choices for the next BDG group read to me at...... not to the list!! You should receive a reply from me within 24 hours that I have received your votes. If you do not receive a confirmation from me, please let me know. We don't want anyone's votes to be lost in cyber space! :o) The voting period is from now until midnight, January 29th, USA, EST. The winners will be announced on Tues. Jan. 30th. Everyone please vote. Last selection period was so close it wasn't apparent until the very last moment which nominations were the winners! Your votes do count. Final nominations (14): Dorothy Bryant: The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You. List Price: $11.95, Paperback Reprint edition (April 1997), Random House (Paper); ISBN: 0679778438 Octavia Butler: Lilith's Brood. Published by Warner Books - ISBN: 0446676101, retail price: 13.95 Keith Hartman: The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse. Meisha Merlin Publishing; ISBN: 1892065053; List Price $16.00 Nancy Kress: Beggars in Spain. Mass Market Paperback Reprint edition (March 1994), Avon; ISBN: 0380718774, $6.99US, also available as audio cassette Ursula K. Le Guin, Todd Barton, Margaret Chodos-Irvine, George Hersh: Always Coming Home (California Fiction). Amazon Price: $14.95, Paperback - 525 pages (February 5, 2001), Univ California Press; ISBN: 0520227352. This item will be published on February 5, 2001. Elizabeth A. Lynn: The Northern Girl. 470 pages, ISBN: 0441007279, List Price: $14 Louise Marley: The Terrorists of Irustan. List Price: $5.99, ISBN: 0441007430 Sharyn McCrumb: Bimbos of the Death Sun. List Price: $5.99, Mass Market Paperback - 212 pages, Reprint edition (February 1997), Ballantine Books; ISBN: 034541215X Maureen F. McHugh: Mission Child. List Price: $6.99, Mass Market Paperback - 370 pages (November 9, 1999), Eos (Mass MMarket); ISBN: 0380791226 (UK edition Orbit, ISBN 1- 85723-861- 3, paperback 6.99 GBP) Vonda N. McIntyre: The Moon and the Sun. List Price: $6.99, Mass Market Paperback - 496 pages (September 1998), Pocket Books; ISBN: 0671567667 Pat Murphy: The Falling Woman. List Price: $11.95, Paperback, Reprint edition (August 1993), Tor Books; ISBN: 0312854064. First published in 1986. Alice Nunn: Illicit Passage. Trade paperback, 250 pages. J. Neil Schulman: The Rainbow Cadenza. List Price: $27.50, Paperback - 394 pages (July 1999), Unknown; ISBN: 15884451238 Virginia Woolf: Orlando : A Biography. Paperback (December 1999), Wordsworth Edition; ISBN: 1853262390, $4.95 -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:08:44 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: eva Subject: Re: Pratchett and feminism In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit piggybacking on kate--sorry for the weird formatting. > Jane Fletcher wrote: > > >The book where Pratchett attempted to tackle sexism ^ÑEqual Rites^Ò, is >IMO > >his worst book. It is several years since I read it and I don^Òt >have a > >copy on hand to refer to, but my impression was that he was >saying ^Ñ Women > >can^Òt compete with men in the male domain, and shouldn^Òt >try, but should > >concentrate on their own fields (and marry the right >man)^Ò. holy cow! _equal rites_ was one of my favorite discworld novels in the early days, and i didn't get that impression at all. i interpreted it as a light-hearted critique of all the stereotypes of "male" vs. "female" magic that exist in more traditional fantasy novels. in fact i've always thought of it as being very feminist-friendly if not explicitly feminist. the main female character, esk, doesn't succeed as a wizard at unseen university, but she is equally unhappy when training under granny to be a nice traditional witch. that's the conflict that drives the whole book--her frustration with the limitations of the "separate but equal" magical systems. as for marrying the right man, i don't think the romantic interest was a major plot point, but i may be misremembering. -> eva -- http://mrow.net -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:30:34 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Gender Differences On-Line In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:39 PM 1/28/01 -0700, you wrote: > >http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt > Hey, thanks for this one. It's a beaut. Neil Rest -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:09:11 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: WICKED from ZENtertainment Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 'WICKED WITCH' MINISERIES AT ABC > According to The HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, ALLIANCE > ATLANTIS > will produce a four-hour miniseries adaptation of Gregory > Maguire's novel WICKED: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THE > WICKED > WITCH OF THE WEST for ABC. The fantasy adventure is a > dark > take on L. Frank Baum's Oz novels focusing on the Wicked > Witch. > http://www.allianceatlantis.com > http://www.abc.com > -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:22:32 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: woltonb Subject: Re: Gender Differences On-Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03C8_01C08B0B.23DD9840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03C8_01C08B0B.23DD9840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [*FSFFU*] Gender Differences On-LineI thank God that this kind of thing = has only happened 3 times! I have just spent the most tedious hour = deleting over 150 emails (teach me not to check my email for a couple of = days) and I do not want to have to do that again in a hurry. For some of = us poor foreigners, not only was the last weeks discussion baffling, it = was also expensive! half an hour to collect my bag load of emails, = paying for my internet connection by the minute - I spend less money = phoning my Mother!=20 (Sorry - my two pennies worth spent, I will shut up about this topic = now) Michelle Taylor Merry Olde England ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jenny Rankine=20 To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:08 PM Subject: [*FSFFU*] Gender Differences On-Line I found this article (http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt) = fascinating. =20 I really enjoy the tone of this list. It's been encouraging, diverse = and largely accepting of different viewpoints. This is so consistent = that it is really noticeable when someone uses a more adversarial style = of communicating. =20 I've been on it long enough to remember three *situations* involving = people who made strong, often contentions assertions, lengthy and/or = frequent posts, and used an adversarial style, sarcasm and/or put-downs = with anyone who disagreed with them. Interestingly enough for a = women-dominated list, two of them identified themselves as men and one = as a woman. One thing that was true of all three was that they didn't = want to confine their opinions or their sarcasm to fssf - they wanted to = have vigorous and acrimonious debate about all their hobby horses with = any comers. When I see that kind of post starting up from someone now, = I usually expect it to escalate into flaming fairly shortly. Jenny Rankine=20 Aotearoa New Zealand=20 ((=20 ------=_NextPart_000_03C8_01C08B0B.23DD9840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [*FSFFU*] Gender Differences On-Line
I thank God that this kind of thing has = only=20 happened 3 times! I have just spent the most tedious hour deleting over = 150=20 emails (teach me not to check my email for a couple of days) and I do = not want=20 to have to do that again in a hurry. For some of us poor foreigners, not = only=20 was the last weeks discussion baffling, it was also expensive! half an = hour to=20 collect my bag load of emails, paying for my internet connection by the = minute -=20 I spend less money phoning my Mother!
 
(Sorry - my two pennies worth spent, I = will shut up=20 about this topic now)
 
Michelle Taylor
Merry Olde England
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jenny=20 Rankine
To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU =
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 = 9:08=20 PM
Subject: [*FSFFU*] Gender = Differences=20 On-Line

I found this article (http://www.cpsr.org/cpsr/gender/herring.txt)=20 fascinating. 

I really enjoy the tone of this list.  It's = been=20 encouraging, diverse and largely accepting of different = viewpoints.  This=20 is so consistent that it is really noticeable when someone uses a more = adversarial style of communicating. 

I've been on it long enough to remember three = *situations*=20 involving people who made strong, often contentions assertions, = lengthy and/or=20 frequent posts, and used an adversarial style, sarcasm and/or = put-downs with=20 anyone who disagreed with them.  Interestingly enough for a=20 women-dominated list, two of them identified themselves as men and one = as a=20 woman.  One thing that was true of all three was that they didn't = want to=20 confine their opinions or their sarcasm to fssf - they wanted to have = vigorous=20 and acrimonious debate about all their hobby horses with any = comers. =20 When I see that kind of post starting up from someone now, I usually = expect it=20 to escalate into flaming fairly shortly.

Jenny Rankine
Aotearoa  New=20 Zealand

((

------=_NextPart_000_03C8_01C08B0B.23DD9840-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.