From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 15:29:37 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:28:06 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0102A" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:28:06 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joyce Jones Subject: Another Oz movie Comments: To: CRONE Brandy considering 'Oz' remake LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - After her star turn as Cinderella, R&B singer/actress Brandy is taking on another classic character - Dorothy. Brandy is in advanced negotiations to star in Fox's star-studded hip-hop rendition of L. Frank Baum's classic "The Wizard of Oz," tentatively titled "The O.Z." Brandy joins Queen Latifah (Glenda the Good Witch), Busta Rhymes (Cowardly Lion), Little Richard (the Wizard), Ginuwine (the Scarecrow) and R&B group IMX (the flying monkeys), all of who have agreed to do the Fox TV Pictures project, though no deals have been signed. In the new take on the classic story, to be directed by Randall Kleiser, Dorothy will be a successful but lonely hip-hop musical producer in Los Angeles. After a massive earthquake, she and her sidekick Toto find themselves in a strange, wondrous land called the Big O.Z. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:53:14 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Angela Barclay Subject: suggestions to streamline Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3063901996_1962531_MIME_Part" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3063901996_1962531_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michelle Taylor from England wrote: "I have just spent the most tedious hour deleting over 150 emails . . . For some of us poor foreigners, not only was the last weeks discussion baffling, it was also expensive! half an hour to collect my bag load of emails, paying for my internet connection by the minute - I spend less money phoning my Mother!" This was a good reminder to people like me who have unlimited internet priviledges to be more cognizant of what we type before we hit send. It is unlikely we all are going to be interested in all of the posts in our inboxes, but I think we could see less repetition. Instead of tacking our responses to another member's entire post (or an entire thread), I would like to suggest we streamline by snipping out what is necessary; and, like another member recently suggested, changing the subject lines of our posts, so subscribers can more easily pick and choose what to read. let's make our posts more reader friendly --MS_Mac_OE_3063901996_1962531_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable suggestions to streamline Michelle Taylor from England wrote:
"I have just spent the most tedious hour deleting over 150 emai= ls  . . . For some of us poor foreigners, not only was the last weeks d= iscussion baffling, it was also expensive! half an hour to collect my bag lo= ad of emails, paying for my internet connection by the minute - I spend less= money phoning my Mother!"

This was a good reminder to people like me who have unlimited internet priv= iledges to be more cognizant of what we type before we hit send. It is unlik= ely we all are going to be interested in all of the posts in our inboxes, bu= t I think we could see less repetition.  Instead of tacking our respons= es to another member's entire post (or an entire thread), I would like to su= ggest we streamline by snipping out what is necessary; and, like another mem= ber recently suggested, changing the subject lines of our posts, so subscrib= ers can more easily pick and choose what to read.

let's make our posts more reader friendly


--MS_Mac_OE_3063901996_1962531_MIME_Part-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:38:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Jennifer R. J." Subject: stories about menses Comments: cc: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I was recently reading a lot online about menstruation and the story "Even the Queen" by Connie Willis was mentioned on The Museum of Menstruation, so I read it. I was a little disappointed in the story because I wanted to read something more "menstrual positive." I couldn't tell if Willis was making fun of her characters or if she was agreeing with them (this was my first experience with reading Willis, so I'm not sure what her usual tone is). So I was wondering if there are any other SFF stories or novels about menstruation and if any of them might celebrate it. Thank you. Jennifer -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cindy Smith Subject: Re: Stories About Menses >From: "Jennifer R. J." >Subject: [*FSFFU*] stories about menses >Comments: cc: FEMINISTSF-LIT@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU >To: FEMINISTSF@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > I was recently reading a lot online about menstruation and the story >"Even the Queen" by Connie Willis was mentioned on The Museum of >Menstruation, so I read it. I was a little disappointed in the story >because I wanted to read something more "menstrual positive." I couldn't >tell if Willis was making fun of her characters or if she was agreeing with >them (this was my first experience with reading Willis, so I'm not sure >what her usual tone is). So I was wondering if there are any other SFF >stories or novels about menstruation and if any of them might celebrate >it. Thank you. I remember reading Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series, and one of the books deals with painful menstruation. It's been 20 years since I read the story and so I don't recall the title. As I recall, you need a certain number of people to do psychic phenomena like clairvoyance on the Darkover world, and one woman who was selected to be the leader had terrible menstruation pains. Others would try to help ease her pain psychically but to no avail. The circle needed her desperately to ward off some terrible evil. I don't think it was _Hastur of Hastur_ (though that was an excellent novel) nor do I think it was _Oath of the Renunciates_ (another goodie about the Free Amazons). Maybe it was one of the short stories. Hopefully, someone on the list can remember the title. At any rate, I sympathized with the main character because I used to have terrible menstrual pains every month when I was a teenager. I used to stay home from school at least one day out of the month because I was doubled over in pain. The doctor told me that, in order for the pains to stop, I'd have to have a baby. He was right. After my firstborn son, I ceased having such painful periods. Gadzooks, I wouldn't want to go back to those days! > Jennifer Cindy Smith Spawn of a Jewish Carpenter GO AGAINST THE FLOW! \\ _\\\_ _///_ // A Real Live Catholic in Georgia cms@dragon.com >IXOYE=('> <`)= _<< "Delay not your conversion cms@romancatholic.org// /// \\\ \\ to the LORD, Put it not off cms@5sc.net from day to day" Ecclus/Sira 5:8 -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:08:15 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: janet Dowling Subject: re suggestions to streamline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/01 6:10:29 AM GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU writes: << Michelle Taylor from England wrote: "I have just spent the most tedious hour deleting over 150 emails . . . For some of us poor foreigners, not only was the last weeks discussion baffling, it was also expensive! half an hour to collect my bag load of emails, paying for my internet connection by the minute - I spend less money phoning my Mother!" >> Missed the original posting but taking half an hour to collect e-mail seems a lot- is there a reason that Michelle can not download and read off line at no cost( it took me ages to realise that i could do that ) , or to get the list in digest form whcih is much handier, as i can just zoom down the posts reading the ones I want and ignoring the ones i don't. ( again I didn't realise for ages that I could get the digest form- now i use them all the time) Hope this helps Back to lurking janet -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:19:06 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Re: re suggestions to streamline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Missed the original posting but taking half an hour to collect e-mail seems a >lot- is there a reason that Michelle can not download and read off line at no >cost( it took me ages to realise that i could do that ) , or to get the list >in digest form whcih is much handier, as i can just zoom down the posts >reading the ones I want and ignoring the ones i don't. ( again I didn't >realise for ages that I could get the digest form- now i use them all the >time) She probably is reading offline and is using a slow connection to download all those emails in the first place. The "half an hour to collect my bag load of emails" implies she downloads them all at once. Digest form would probably reduce her download time by 20% or so, due to reduced mail headers, but wouldn't reduce the actual list content. Michelle has the unfortunate problem (for Internet access) of living in England, where all phone calls are billed by the minute. From what friends have told me, her problems will probably be solved by the government changing the fee structure for telephone and Internet in the next few years. In the meantime, here are a few suggestions for Michelle: 1) As I noted above, using the daily digest will reduce overall load by about 20%. 2) The FSF-L list is devoted to on-topic messages only - perhaps you should unsubscribe to FSFFU where off-topic emails are explicitly permitted and subscribe only to FSF-L. Streamlining the list is the whole purpose of FSF-L. 3) My friends in England tell me that there are some deals you can sign up for where your off-peak (night and weekend) dialin to the Internet is free, and you only pay per-minute charges during peak (business) hours. The monthly fee is slightly higher than what you're paying now, but you could configure your computer to upload and download your mail every night for daytime reading. 4) Faster modems are nicer :-) 5) Finally, in case you aren't already doing so, you should use a program like Eudora (www.eudora.com) to read your mail offline. You can receive and send mail at night, but do your actual reading/writing anytime you want. ----- "The self, myself, the self as I see it, is composed mainly of selected memories from my history. I am not what I am doing now. I am what I have done, and the edited version of my past seems more real to me than what I am at this moment." --Zebra, in _Katherine_ by Anchee Min Chris Shaffer chris@bsinc.net http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:03:11 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: A pretty good Kathe Koja story online...printable or readable Comments: cc: "sciencefiction-l@listserv.indiana.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A pretty good Kathe Koja story, for those who'd like to see something from her middle range (from the website where Ellen Datlow edits the speculative fiction; Marcy Steiner [BEST WOMEN'S EROTICA annual] edits in some other capacity): http://www.theposition.com/sexlibris/fantasy/00/08/07/fantasy/default.shtm -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:52:10 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kristina Solheim Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - -Infro about how to try to avoid rape situtions In-Reply-To: <6d.ea202e6.27a3a12f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Just wanted to respond with some up-to-date information about the myths mentioned in the email being circulated and some URL's that you can go to. http://www.cs.utk.edu/~bartley/saInfoPage.html this page mostly just links to other pages - but it's a great list of resources that I have used quite often. You explore by topic. http://www.rapenetwork.com/mythsandreality2.html a good myths & realities page that is attached to another good site (with other resources, of course). http://www.rainn.org not a great site (not too much data) but a very popular site since it was established by Tori Amos. Gives out stats and referrals, ways to get involved. see my comments in the text below: At 10:57 PM 1/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The #1 thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are >most likely to go aft! ! ! er a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid, or >other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. MYTH. This is not true. Men look for a situation where they can demonstrate power over another individual. They do not look specifically for a hairstyle. >The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's >clothing is easy to remove quickly. Another MYTH. In study after study, convicted rapists have reported that clothing had nothing to do with how they chose their victims. >The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the >early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m. Huge MYTH! Recent research has shown that the most common time for sexual assault is between 3:00 and 5:00 PM. >The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store >parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is >public restrooms. Another complete Myth. The #1 place people are attacked is in the home. I think it's about 75% of all sexual assault is by someone the victim knows (the statistic might be higher). >If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it >only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't >worth it because it will be time-consuming. not true. Struggling is part of the assault. They expect you to resist. But... yelling, and a few swift kicks (top of the foot, 20 lbs of pressure to the kneecap, palm of hand to the nose) can stop an attack and attract attention. >* After the initial hit, always go for the groin. MYTH. Never try to disable your attacker by hitting/kicking him in the groin. If you practice with friends/family members, you will see that they have incredibly strong reflexes. Jump on the tops of their feet (not the toes, but the actual bridge part), land a good kick to their kneecaps (as little as 20 lbs of force can dislocate a kneecap), land one good blow to their nose (heel of your palm out, fingers tucked in... hit with the heel of your palm NOT your fist). I got all this information from both my sister (who heads up the Self-Defense Program at Stanford University) and Rebecca Rodregis who is the Outreach Counselor at the Rape Crisis Center of the Mid-Peninsula YMCA in California. I'm happy to give you information to reach either of them if you have any questions or want to see the research I mentioned. ciao! Kristina -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:05:21 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - -Infro about how to try to avoid rape situtions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/2001 1:52:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, solheimk@STANFORD.EDU writes: << I got all this information from both my sister (who heads up the Self-Defense Program at Stanford University) and Rebecca Rodregis who is the Outreach Counselor at the Rape Crisis Center of the Mid-Peninsula YMCA in California. I'm happy to give you information to reach either of them if you have any questions or want to see the research I mentioned. >> True, but infromation varies. I've seen so many different techniques on how to avoid being raped and what to do in the sitution. That I would never know what to do. And times seem to differ depending on the city. In Philly the time seems to be from 12 am to 8 am. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:23:14 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Mists of Avalon Movie on TNT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you do not already TNT filmned an adeptationof Bradley's novel. Web address for the complete description is www.tnt.turner.com/movies/tntoriginals/mists. The infromation is too much to copy on to an email. They haven't given the film an extact showing date yet, but I did see a 3-5 min. ad for it. It looks intersting. Thought I can't see Juliana Margulies as Morgaine. And A. Houston is would make a good Vivane (except she's too tall but then there is that power thing). But one thing about the ad really distrubed. I really don't remember Arthur, Gwen, and Lance in the same bed (but I haven't read it in a while, maybe I blocked it out). Gavin Scott wrote the script, but the website does not offer any infromation about anything else he worked on. The team that produced L.A. Confidental are the ex. producers. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:27:15 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC in Philly: Ethier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In Center City and by the waterfront, at the very least. Frustrated thugs after work or after getting ever angrier as they contemplate their afterwork lives. TM -----Original Message----- From: Christine Ethier [mailto:EthierCN@AOL.COM] True, but infromation varies. And times seem to differ depending on the city. In Philly the time seems to be from 12 am to 8 am. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:38:29 +0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Angela Barclay Subject: open mouth, insert computer Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The other day I suggested we make our posts more reader friendly by refraining from tacking onto entire posts or threads, and (as another subscriber recently pointed out) by changing our subject lines when we change topic. A more computer savvy listmember ever so politely pointed out to me that my own messages have not been reader friendly because they are in HTML format and not plain text and directed me to a site which contains detailed instructions on setting 'plain text' in ones email program: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1236/nomime.html Here's a snippet from the site which was news to me: Plain text is how your messages should be formatted when sending Email to mailing lists and Usenet newsgroups or to any other recipient. Though this rule is not yet cast in "Netiquette" stone, it is a good policy to follow if you want quick and informative responses to your questions and wish to avoid being "flamed" as a clueless newbie. (Thanks for not "flaming" me- my face is flaming as it is!) HTML is meant for the WWW; not for mailing lists, Usenet newsgroups postings, proper business Email correspondence and preferably not for personal Email unless the recipient is expecting it. MIME encoded mail is used to send attachments that consist of pictures, sound files, spreadsheets, word-processing documents, zip files, or other binary files to recipients that have use the same operating system, the same word processing program and a common Email program such as Eudora, Pegasus, Netscape, or Outlook. These types of files are not wanted on mailing lists, Usenet newsgroups postings, business Email correspondence, and preferably not for personal Email unless the recipient is expecting it. Angela who is crossing her fingers that this isn't followed by computer babble -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Deborah A. Oosterhouse" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - -Infro about how to try to avoid rape situtions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christine Ethier wrote: > I've seen so many different techniques on how to avoid being raped and what to > do in the sitution. That I would never know what to do. This reminds me of a story I once heard at a Citizens Against Crime seminar. A woman was going through a park when she was grabbed and thrown to the ground. The only thing she saw was all this grass around her so she started grabbing handfuls of it, shoving it in her mouth, and mooing like a cow. The guy was startled enough to back off for just long enough for her to get out of there. The point of the story being, of course, do whatever it takes, no matter how bizarre or grotesque (urinating and/or defecating on yourself was also suggested). Deborah -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:51:05 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: open mouth, insert computer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nod, the other day a listmember offlist asked me to refrain from HTML and I had no idea I was spewing it everywhere! I found under options in Outlook to set it to plain text, which another good reason to do it is a lot of students use Unix systems when they get free email programs and it makes it a lot easier to read plain text that way. Of course for all I know things have changed with university email systems since I graduated in 1999. The free email and Unix system I participated in allowed you to find text based webpages on the net, but if the webperson used Java or some such language you were out of luck and got a blank screen. Jo Ann -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:34:06 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: janet Dowling Subject: Fwd: [*FSFFU*] re suggestions to streamline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_af.6a5dc2a.27ad62ce_boundary" --part1_af.6a5dc2a.27ad62ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << In a message dated 2/3/01 4:14:44 AM GMT Standard Time, NeilRest@enteract.com writes: << All phone calls in England are charged by the minute. That's why there's so little Web-surfing there! >> I happen to be in England, spend a lot of time on the web and I get a cheap connection for my internet use. I'll have to find the details, but its through AOL Janet --part1_af.6a5dc2a.27ad62ce_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: JADowling@aol.com Full-name: JADowling Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:28:37 EST Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] re suggestions to streamline To: NeilRest@enteract.com, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 In a message dated 2/3/01 4:14:44 AM GMT Standard Time, NeilRest@enteract.com writes: << All phone calls in England are charged by the minute. That's why there's so little Web-surfing there! >> I happen to be in England, spend a lot of time on the web and I get a cheap connection for my internet use. I'll have to find the details, but its through AOL Janet --part1_af.6a5dc2a.27ad62ce_boundary-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 07:56:15 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Re: Mists of Avalon Movie on TNT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a little more information on the writer from the IMDB link... http://us.imdb.com/Title?0244353 Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:37:31 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Candioglos Subject: Re: Mists of Avalon Movie on TNT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But one thing about the ad really > distrubed. I really don't remember Arthur, Gwen, and Lance in the same bed > (but I haven't read it in a while, maybe I blocked it out). You probably did; I remember it being there; it was Arthur's attempt to get an heir, because he was aware, even though he couldn't admit it publicly, that the reason he didn't already have one was him, not her. At least, that's the way I remember it, but it's also been several years since I read it. -Sandy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:43:01 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: Mists of Avalon Movie on TNT/Art.Gwen.Lance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/2001 2:46:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, scandiog@YAHOO.COM writes: << ou probably did; I remember it being there; it was Arthur's attempt to get an heir, because he was aware, even though he couldn't admit it publicly, that the reason he didn't already have one was him, not her. At least, that's the way I remember it, but it's also been several years since I read it. -Sandy >> You're right. I'm just re-reading the novel. I did block it out. The scene occurs during Beltane. Though in the TNT ad, Lance looks upset at the idea, his reaction in the book is different. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:27:35 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: heistant forward [OT] Comments: To: ChiIntegMed@yahoogroups.com, gt-pfrc@gt.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Got this from a friend.... sounds good to me. >> >>Donna >> >> I recieved a mesaage at home. It suggests that, in honor of >>Presidents' Day coming up, people send donations to Planned >>Parenthood and have them send a card to George W saying that "A >>donation has been made in your honor to Planned Parenthood." I'm >>going to! >> >> Personally, I like it! Neil Rest -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:20:43 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jane Fletcher Subject: Re: Pratchett and feminism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I certainly would not count Pratchett as an unpleasantly sexist writer. He is very much in the business of holding up a mirror to our own society and showing us what is there - sexism and all. He clearly feels that people have to right to self-determination, however I am left with nagging doubts that he has limited ideas about what women might want to be. In terms of 'finding the right man', Pratchett is a romantic, which I am in no position to criticise with regard to my own writing. I got _The Fifth Elephant_ for Christmas. It is currently working its way up my 'to read' pile. Finally, Kate wrote: <> I would say that Pratchett is actually far more realistic than Butler. E.g. In my 45 years I have met a large number of human beings. I can safely say that the overwhelming majority, both male and female, are both likeable and well-meaning. This is not something one would ever suspect from reading Butler's work. Jane -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Jennifer R. J." Subject: Re: Mists of Avalon In-Reply-To: <3A7C5DFA.FB87D460@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:37 AM 2/3/01 -0800, you wrote: >You probably did; I remember it being there; it was Arthur's attempt to get an >heir, because he was aware, even though he couldn't admit it publicly, >that the >reason he didn't already have one was him, not her. >At least, that's the way I remember it, but it's also been several years >since I >read it. > -Sandy For everyone who hasn't read Mists, this is a big spoiler. Gwen was pregnant and miscarried a few times, so it wasn't Arthur's fault that they couldn't conceive. But I don't remember if she had been pregnant before Beltane so he may have still been thinking it was his fault. The reason Gwen couldn't carry a pregnancy to term was that Morgause and Viviane conspired to have some kind of spell on Gwen to keep her from giving Arthur an heir so Mordred could be the heir. Jennifer -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 22:07:50 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: a missing middle word In-Reply-To: <004601c08ec8$0816f6e0$f424fc3e@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:20 PM 2/4/01 -0000, Jane Fletcher wrote: >I certainly would not count Pratchett as an unpleasantly sexist writer. He >is very much in the business of holding up a mirror to our own society and >showing us what is there - sexism and all. He clearly feels that people have >to right to self-determination, however I am left with nagging doubts that >he has limited ideas about what women might want to be. > A couple of times recently, the question has been asked, "Is it feminist?" I've read only a couple of Pratchetts, not being my cuppa, and my imprssion is much like Jane's. It's the nature of the sort of satire he does that some of his targets are the same as feminism's. So while feminism is not a central concern of his, and to the extent that "feminism" means actively promoting, he's not, particularly, it seems to me that his work is very consistent with feminism (not digressing into finer-focused precision -- his stronger and weaker specifics are not germane to my point). So is there a term for "consistent with feminism, although having other central concerns"? Neil Rest -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:17:18 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: FW: Arthur C Clarke Award Comments: cc: SF-LIT@sun8.loc.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kincaid The shortlist for this year's Arthur C Clarke Award has been announced. The full shortlist is: PARABLE OF THE TALENTS Octavia Butler (Women's Press) ASH: A SECRET HISTORY Mary Gentle (Gollancz) COSMONAUT KEEP Ken MacLeod (Orbit) PERDIDO STREET STATION China Miéville (Macmillan) REVELATION SPACE Alastair Reynolds (Gollancz) SALT Adam Roberts (Gollancz) The Award is to be presented at the Science Museum on Saturday 19 May, the winner receives an engraved bookend and a cheque for £2001. -- Paul Kincaid Administrator, Arthur C Clarke Award clarke@appomattox.demon.co.uk -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:25:10 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Rose Reith Subject: Interesting article on Lynne Cheney as a feminist intellectual In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i05/05b01101.htm According to the above referenced article in the Chronicle of Higher Education, Lynne Cheney, wife of our new v.p. has written a couple of novels that she doesn't currently list on her c.v. Among the less familiar items on her bibliography are three novels written in the late 1970's and 1980's: Executive Privilege: A Washington Novel (1979); Sisters (1981), and The Body Politic (1988), written with Victor Gold (who also served as a coauthor of George H. W. Bush's "autobiography" Looking Forward). According to the article, the second novel, _Sisters_, includes a "19th-century heroine [who] forcefully defends a woman's right to use contraception. " -- Information is not knowledge. ~Caleb Carr, KILLING TIME -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:16:11 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: Broad Universe listserve (fwd) Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fyi y'all Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- BROAD UNIVERSE HAS A LISTSERVE! It's an open listserve and fans of women's writing and artwork in science fiction, fantasy and horror are welcomed to join. Women, men, transgendered -- anyone interested in the works of women in the field is welcome. As a founding member of the listserve, you can help get the fun started -- to begin discussing books by your favorite women authors, to appreciate the work of women artists, to brainstorm fun panels for upcoming conventions, to laugh about weird cover art and in general, meet others with the same interest as you. Authors can use the listserve to coordinate joint book tours, to announce upcoming readings and signings, and in general to let readers know what you're doing. If you'd like to join the listserve, send a message to listmother Sarah Palmero at broaduniverse_subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Let Sarah know if you want to receive posts all together once the compilation reaches a certain size (digest mode) -- otherwise you'll get them individually as they're sent. At this point, our only rule is No Flames. With the added exhortation that if you don't understand the need for this endeavor, it's probably not the right place for you. If you want to ask nicely, we'll reply. If you only want to berate the effort, Sarah will remove you from the list. Other than that, we'll work out the details as we go along. And keep your eye on our website, www.broaduniverse.org. We've got a book catalog in the works and a newsletter coming out in a few months. See you there! Amy Hanson ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981410628/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:24:49 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: FW: Arthur C Clarke Award In-Reply-To: <200102060606.AAA49798@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Todd Mason wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kincaid > > The shortlist for this year's Arthur C Clarke Award has been > announced. > > The full shortlist is: > > PARABLE OF THE TALENTS Octavia Butler (Women's Press) > ASH: A SECRET HISTORY Mary Gentle (Gollancz) > COSMONAUT KEEP Ken MacLeod (Orbit) > PERDIDO STREET STATION China Miéville (Macmillan) > REVELATION SPACE Alastair Reynolds (Gollancz) > SALT Adam Roberts (Gollancz) Just a note to anyone looking for something good to read. I've read Ash, Cosmonaut Keep, and Revelation Space, and they are all *wonderful*!!! If I had to pick I'd place Cosmonaut Keep first, quickly followed by Ash and then Revelation Space. Ash, and its three sequels are also excellent feminist books. China Mieville is also good, although I've only read "King Rat". I'm not familiar with the others, except that I know to avoid Butler, because I find her work *way* too depressing and ugly. -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft Subject: Recommendations off the Arthur C Clarke Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the recommendations re: the other Clark nominees, but let me just put in a plug for Butler. She may be a little bleak, but I find her one of the most compelling and interesting writers in our genre these days. Her books stay with me longer than most fiction does, and her images of possible futures *feel* all too possible to me. So if anyone hasn't read her, please give her a try. Butler is a recipient of a MacArthur ("genius") fellowship, and one she richly deserved. Dianne K. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:34:55 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Laura Quilter Subject: broad universe listserve Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu, feministsf-lit@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ummm ... it seems like the person that had a problem got on after all, but here's a correction to the original list subscription info. for more info go to: www.broaduniverse.org Laura Quilter / lquilter@exo.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:12:40 -0500 From: Amy Hanson Oops! Already a glitch. To sign up for the Broad Universe listserve, send an email to: broaduniverse-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. The previous address was incorrect. Sorry for the inconvenience. Amy -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:34:19 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Dune (was Re: Califia-Rice: Vasquez:Male FSF authors) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently another Discussion Group I was watching had a huge debate about whether or not the giant sand worms in Dune were phallic symbols....... Anyway, IMO, I wouldn't consider it feminist either. I remember finding it slightly annoying when reading the book because I felt there was a message that part of the reason Paul was so wonderful etc, the desired result of the Benne Gesserit breeding program etc because he was a man. I think it is really clutching at straw to say that Herbert is feminist because he included the female 'power behind the throne' cult Bene gesserit- when the entire society is fundamentally patriarchal- ie Paul's mother is a concubine, and similarly h never marries the freman lover he meets in Dune- and whom we never learn very much about, and for a grand passion, does not seem to be very important in Paul's life, or the grand scheme of things. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:45:29 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: ashcroft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excuse me if this sounds stupid.. I am an Australian, and am not sure hat current events you are referring to, but even so- is this post a joke? Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:13:49 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: ashcroft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hear a lot of people saying that 'as a woman, they don't want to be given a job just because they are a woman etc, in relation to equal employment , affirmative action or whatever it's called. However, I strongly disagree. If you start from the position that women and men (and also, people of whatever race) have an equal ability to perform any job (maybe not those requiring brute strength, of which there are few these days; or breastfeeding etc, ie being a mother) then you should also agree that there should be an equal percentage of each sex, race etc in each job. However, because of the way our society is structured, it is harder for women and minority groups to progress throughout the ranks, get qualifications, whatever. But- they have JUST THE SAME ABILITY TO PERFORM THE JOB. If a firm has 95% men in executive position and only 5% women- why ids that- surely no one believes it id because women are less able to perform the job? No, it is because of discrimination- some times very subtle discrimination that makes it harder for any one other than white males. Now that we are trying to redress the balance, making sure that a certain percentage of position are filled by women ie the Australian Govt is aiming for 35% Govt positions ie senators to be women; is a good place to start. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:32:53 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Urania's Daughters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just received my copy of the bibliography Urania's Daughters by Roger C. Schlobin, his bibliography of women SciFi writers from 1692-1982, and something interested me as I quickly scanned some pages. He lists Ayn Rand's _Anthem_ and _The Fountainhead_ in this index as SciFi, would this be because he is characterizing it as Social Science Fiction due to the nature of her philosophical views expressed through these stories? Am a bit perplexed at the moment, hehe. Jo Ann -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:37:49 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Ashcroft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think most people, especially say, scientists and ob-gyns, consider conception when the egg and sperm meet. In fact, what happens os the sperm touches the egg and inserts its DNA. The DNA is the size of an ant in comparison to the egg, and is has to spend about 24 hours wandering about insider the egg, looking for the eggs DNA, so that they can meet, combine and create the genetic material for a new person. This 24 hour period, is the amount of time that scientists are allowed to experiment on fertilised eggs, incidentally. When the fertilised egg implants on the wall, is called implantation. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:50:46 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Neil Rest Subject: Re: Recommendations off the Arthur C Clarke Award In-Reply-To: <200102061039_MC2-C460-8C7B@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:38 AM 2/6/01 -0500, Dianne Kraft wrote: >Thanks for the recommendations re: the other Clark nominees, but let me >just put in a plug for Butler. She may be a little bleak, but I find her >one of the most compelling and interesting writers in our genre these days. > Her books stay with me longer than most fiction does, and her images of >possible futures *feel* all too possible to me. > >So if anyone hasn't read her, please give her a try. Butler is a >recipient of a MacArthur ("genius") fellowship, and one she richly ^^^^^^^^ >deserved. One delicate quibble -- she hates it when it's called that. But read everything of hers, regardless. Neil Rest -- NeilRest@enteract.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:54:10 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Ashcroft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm a little curios about a statement incorporated into the 'Points of conservative feminism'- you say that there are more conservative feminists than liberal feminist. For the sake f accuracy, first I would say that I very much doubt this is true. Secondly, even if it were true- that there were more conservative feminist than liberal- so what? Are you implying that that means your position is more correct? Isn't that sort of 'might=right' philosophy completely at odds with feminism? Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:07:25 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: The best contraceptive is a stout pair of knickers! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also- OK, so if you agree to have sex, then you should take responsibility for contraception and, according to you any resulting pregnancy. Too bad if you got raped, or molested by your father hey. Or what about if you find out you have cancer and need chemo/ radiation which might cause birth defects/ kill the baby anyway etc etc Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:15:02 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: OT: NCers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe you could expand a bit on what the good things about the South actually were? Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:33:31 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Ashcroft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember years ago, in Dublin (well, 5 years ago, anyway) being horrified by the sight of one of those anti-abortion groups in the main square, with pictures of 'aborted foetuses' (which are always the size of 6-month foetuses) etc taking petitions. What particularly struck me was all the 18-year-old boys lining up to sign the petition. These are people who probably cant even get a root (I mean, find someone to have sex with) let alone deal with the reality of unwanted pregnancy. Of course, when a young girl gets pregnant, it is usually her boyfriend who is the first to suggest that 'we consider our options' ie he thinks termination is the way to go. In my experience, those who shout loudest ie object to abortion the most are those who feel pretty confident they will never even be in that position However, I also feel that with all the furore over women's reproductive rights etc, those who hold have women's rights important, have made inroads into making abortion available, but the right to keep an unplanned pregnancy is overlooked. While some people abhor abortion, some also can not understand the idea of keeping an unplanned baby when abortion is easily available. I thank God that abortion is so readily available, but at he same time, I wish there was more support for women wishing to keep their pregnancies. I believe true reproductive rights include the right not only to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, but to be able to continue with an unplanned pregnancy without it jeopardising their social, professional, financial future etc. Maybe if the right-to-lifers spent more time making continuing unwanted pregnancies a viable option for women, instead of bombing clinics, they would have more success lowering termination rates maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:32:17 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Laura J. Mixon-Gould" Subject: Re: Ashcroft In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 2/6/01 9:33 PM, Maire Shanahan at MaireShanahan@AOL.COM wrote: > Maybe if the > right-to-lifers spent more time making continuing unwanted pregnancies a > viable option for women, instead of bombing clinics, they would have more > success lowering termination rates > maire Here in the US there are numerous agencies to help a woman with her pregnancy. Planned Parenthood doesn't advocate for abortion per se, merely provides counsel to hels a woman decide the best choice for her. If the woman decides to keep her baby, PP gives plenty of support. And, in fairness to the anti-abortionists, they also have numerous agencies that help women with unplanned pregnancies get good health care and find people to adopt the child, once born. It may well be different in other countries. -l. -- Laura J. Mixon * ljm@digitalnoir.com * www.digitalnoir.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:49:08 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: Urania's Daughters In-Reply-To: <003801c090b6$a8c67580$838cb3d1@JoAnnRangel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Jo Ann Rangel wrote: > I just received my copy of the bibliography Urania's Daughters by Roger C. > Schlobin, his bibliography of women SciFi writers from 1692-1982, and > something interested me as I quickly scanned some pages. He lists Ayn > Rand's _Anthem_ and _The Fountainhead_ in this index as SciFi, would this be > because he is characterizing it as Social Science Fiction due to the nature > of her philosophical views expressed through these stories? > > Am a bit perplexed at the moment, hehe. > > Jo Ann > ANTHEM is science fiction. Very bad science fiction. ATLAS SHRUGGED can be called science fiction, or could when it was published. THE FOUNTAINHEAD was contemporary in its day and a period piece now.> Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:51:56 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: OT: NCers In-Reply-To: <11.f7b5140.27b225c6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Maire Shanahan wrote: > Maybe you could expand a bit on what the good things about the South actually > were? > Maire > According to Tom Lehrer, they were "Whupping slaves and selling cotton, and awaiting for the Robert E. Lee, it was never there on time.....> Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:00:21 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: Urania's Daughters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah okee I understand what I did now, was thinking of _We The Living_ instead of Anthem, but in a way I thought Fountainhead was more strictly philosophical and social, moreso that something out of science fiction. Jo Ann -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 04:29:47 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: Recommendations off the Arthur C Clarke Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you about Butler 100%----brilliant writer! Amy > Thanks for the recommendations re: the other Clark nominees, but let me > just put in a plug for Butler. She may be a little bleak, but I find her > one of the most compelling and interesting writers in our genre these days. > Her books stay with me longer than most fiction does, and her images of > possible futures *feel* all too possible to me. > > So if anyone hasn't read her, please give her a try. Butler is a > recipient of a MacArthur ("genius") fellowship, and one she richly > deserved. > > Dianne K. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Rebecca Tolley-Stokes Organization: ETSU Libraries Subject: Re: conception is...........was Ashcroft In-Reply-To: <5b.118bcb7d.27b21d0d@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On a relted note, someone told me the other day about a young man who was on scholarship at a major university. He was picked up for underage drinking, since he was under 21, but a bit over 20. He successfully sued the university to have his scholarship re- instated because he claimed that he was REALLY 20 and 9 months if you count the 9 months he spent in utero.................... Rebecca Tolley-Stokes On 6 Feb 2001, at 22:37, Maire Shanahan wrote: > I think most people, especially say, scientists and ob-gyns, consider > conception when the egg and sperm meet. In fact, what happens os the > sperm touches the egg and inserts its DNA. The DNA is the size of an > ant in comparison to the egg, and is has to spend about 24 hours > wandering about insider the egg, looking for the eggs DNA, so that > they can meet, combine and create the genetic material for a new > person. This 24 hour period, is the amount of time that scientists are > allowed to experiment on fertilised eggs, incidentally. When the > fertilised egg implants on the wall, is called implantation. Maire > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ¤º°`°º¤o,,,,o¤º°`°º¤o,,,,o¤º°`°º¤o,,,,o¤º°`°º¤o,,,,o¤º°`°º¤ Rebecca Tolley-Stokes Non-print media cataloger Sherrod Library East Tennessee State University Johnson City, TN 423.439.4365 fax)423.439.4410 tolleyst@etsu.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.