From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 15:51:22 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:48:01 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0103C" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:28:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cynthia Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Re: Harry Potter and gender fear: Ethier after Cynthia I am aware the publishers believe boys won't read books about girls and figured Rowley must believe it too. Now since the story goes that she was in desperate need of money, she wrote to sell. OK. But now surely money concerns are over! The argument that boys won't read books about girls but girls will read about boys has always been one of those things that make me gnash my teeth. If their are no books about girls, what choice do they have? As a few people have pointed out, boys will and do read about girls. When my 3rd teacher read the class Pippi Longstockings, no boy said, "Don't read us that! That's about a girl!" They listened and enjoyed. Similarly in 4th grade, when the teacher read a story of mine to the class, none of the boys said, "We dont' want to hear it because its about a girl duck!" When asked if I should write more stories, the whole class, not jut the girls said yes. Then of course, as so many have pointed out, boys are encouraged to be lazy intellectually and active physically. And this means that the majority of readers are girls and (probably women considering that romance novels constitute 50% of all fiction sales). Usually businesses what to appeal to their actual customers. Girls are the customers! I don't think the prejudice that favors sports and disfavors intellect is a good lesson, and these are supposed to be books for children. Nobody even mentions that if only Hermoine were old enough to enter the witch contest, Hogwarts would be sure to win. The elder brother of Ron is made a negative character because he did well in school and is ambitious about an intellectual career. In the book about the witch contest, it struck me that a romance between Ron and Hermoine is being established. Well Ron is so intellectually lazy, Hermoine should turn him down for it. Then Ron could start studying and become a more fitting hero. And yes, if brain power is like muscle power, use it or loose it. Children do become mentally retarded if not given sufficient intellectual stimulation. The gap between Hermoine and the boys gets bigger every day. I'll wind this down and get to the point. Rowley has probably made her pile, now she ought to honor girls by making a girl the main character. The slights against girls and intellectuals need to be amended! (: Cynthia -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:14:25 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Chris Shaffer Subject: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter and gender fear: Ethier after Cynthia In-Reply-To: <003401c0ad6c$f8e1e180$cdb8ffd1@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I'll wind this down and get to the point. Rowley has probably made her pile, >now she ought to honor girls by making a girl the main character. The >slights against girls and intellectuals need to be amended! Has anyone here read any of Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci Castle novels, which are supposed to compare favorably vs. the Harry Potter series in regards to feminist issues? Any comments? They're hard to find in the US, though apparently can be ordered via Powells. A good website about her work is at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/ . There's even links to articles comparing her work to Rowling's at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/potter.html . I've read "A Sudden Wild Magic" (a fantasy books for adults), but never read the children's novels (we gave one to my niece for solstice last year, but I didn't have time to read it before gifting it). While her name is mentioned on the feministsf.org website, there aren't any reviews of her work. ----- "The right wing would much rather see outre' urban queers throwing drunken kisses off bar floats than two nice married girls move in next door ... demonstrating to every neighborhood kid that a good marriage is defined from the inside out, that sodomy is a sin only in the eye of the beholder." --E.J. Graff Chris Shaffer http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ chris@bsinc.net AIM:ChrisShaff -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:48:09 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Marsha Valance Subject: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter andgenderfear: Ethier after Cynthia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jones is wonderful, and her heroines definitely are strong. Try HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE. Marsha Valance Regional Librarian Wisconsin Regional Library f/t Blind & Physically Handicapped 813 West Wells St. Milwaukee, WI 53233 1.800.242.8822 [in-state] -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:04:58 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Michael J. Lowrey" Organization: The Working Class Subject: Re: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter andgenderfear: Ethier after Cynthia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Shaffer wrote: > Has anyone here read any of Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci Castle novels, > which are supposed to compare favorably vs. the Harry Potter series in > regards to feminist issues? Any comments? They're hard to find in the US, > though apparently can be ordered via Powells. A good website about her > work is at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/ . There's even links to articles > comparing her work to Rowling's at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/potter.html . > > I've read "A Sudden Wild Magic" (a fantasy books for adults), but never > read the children's novels (we gave one to my niece for solstice last year, > but I didn't have time to read it before gifting it). While her name is > mentioned on the feministsf.org website, there aren't any reviews of her work. If you go to SF conventions, a number of dealers (Glen Cook comes to mind) make it a point to keep a large stock of Jones on hand, including British editions (especially of those not available from US publishers). -- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey Sunrise Book & Software Reviews orange@execpc.com 414.229.5960 -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:22:52 +0000 Reply-To: edward.james@newscientist.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Edward James Subject: Re: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter andgenderfear: Ethier after Cynthia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diana Wynne Jones is now being republished in the UK in very handsome paperbacks with a sticker on them saying "Hotter than Potter!" Which indeed she is; such a much better writer than Rowling, and such a much more _original_ writer too. The Chrestomanci books are good, but my favourite is probably "Howl's Moving Castle". But I have read and got them all, if you have questions about any specific ones. She is one of the few authors whose new books Farah and I always buy in hardback: for my wife Farah Mendlesohn's views, see her article on Jones in the St James Guide to Fantasy Writers, ed. David Pringle! Edward James Chris Shaffer wrote: > >I'll wind this down and get to the point. Rowley has probably made her pile, > >now she ought to honor girls by making a girl the main character. The > >slights against girls and intellectuals need to be amended! > > Has anyone here read any of Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci Castle novels, > which are supposed to compare favorably vs. the Harry Potter series in > regards to feminist issues? Any comments? They're hard to find in the US, > though apparently can be ordered via Powells. A good website about her > work is at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/ . There's even links to articles > comparing her work to Rowling's at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/potter.html . > > I've read "A Sudden Wild Magic" (a fantasy books for adults), but never > read the children's novels (we gave one to my niece for solstice last year, > but I didn't have time to read it before gifting it). While her name is > mentioned on the feministsf.org website, there aren't any reviews of her work. > > ----- > "The right wing would much rather see outre' urban queers > throwing drunken kisses off bar floats than two nice married > girls move in next door ... demonstrating to every > neighborhood kid that a good marriage is defined from the > inside out, that sodomy is a sin only in the eye of the > beholder." --E.J. Graff > Chris Shaffer http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/ > chris@bsinc.net AIM:ChrisShaff > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe FEMINISTSF > > Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:19:55 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft Subject: Diana Wynne Jones & Phillip Pullman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm a big fan of Diana Wynne Jones, and would recommend her highly to anyone who likes fantasy/sf. I haven't read all of her juveniles, but find her adult (and her "young adult") novels funny, biting, extremely well written, and plenty complex. The Dark Lord of Derholm is particularly well done, and manages to both poke fun at fantasy, and be a great example thereof. Pretty sophisticated balancing act. I'm surprised Phillip Pullman's trilogy (The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass) hasn't received more attention. I think it's a brilliant accomplisment, comparable to the best of C. S. Lewis. Anyone else read them? -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:26:31 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Candioglos Subject: Re: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter and gender fear: Ethier after Cynthia In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010315110056.0345bc90@mail.bsinc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Has anyone here read any of Diana Wynne Jones' > Chrestomanci Castle novels, > which are supposed to compare favorably vs. the > Harry Potter series in > regards to feminist issues? Any comments? They're > hard to find in the US, > though apparently can be ordered via Powells. A > good website about her > work is at http://www.suberic.net/dwj/ . There's > even links to articles > comparing her work to Rowling's at > http://www.suberic.net/dwj/potter.html . I picked up, purely by accident, and because it had a cat on the cover, an omnibus edition that contains "Charmed Life" and "The Lives of Christopher Chant" in one paperback. I would imagine it's pretty widely available, since it was in my local grocery/hardware/garden/clothes/etc. store (Fred Meyers , for those of you in the PNW). Ah, and I just found it at Powell's website; it's called "The Chronicles of Chestomanci, Volume I"; there's a volume 2 which contains the other two Chestomanci books. $7 each; the powells site only has volume 1 in trade paper, but mine was mass-market size (but thick; probably almost 2 inches). They're really good stories, and they did remind me of the Potter books in tone. Both of the books in volume 1 had boys as main characters, but the females around them were very important characters; After I got into them, I was just enjoying the stories, so I wasn't reading very critically, but that's how I remember it. :) -Sandy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:25:36 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter and gender ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I read the first Harry Potter book, the first thought that came to my mind was that surely this has been done before. They are very similar to many books I read as a child 15 years ago- for example, a series I loved about a young witch called Meg and her travails in witch school. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:30:23 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Re: Diana Wynne Jones & Phillip Pullman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am reading the first in the Philip Pullman series 'The Golden Compass' at the moment, after someone recommended it at this site. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it, and I'm even going to lend it to my father (who loved Harry Potter). Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:44:42 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Shanahan Subject: Ian Irvine The Last Albatross MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am taking ht liberty of mentioning this book here, although it is not by an author ever mentioned as feminist in the archives etc. I have just finished the Last Albatross. I think, firstly, it would be of interest to anyone wanting to read books with incredibly 'real' female protagonists- definitely not of the 'too perfect to be true' variety but a very well drawn complex and above all _realistic_ character. (very rare IMHO) Something that really hit me about his book, was also the incredibly realistic future- this is the only sf book that I have read set in early 21 Century which has seemed so absolutely right, a perfect extrapolation from the developments happening now.. ie getting stuck in the Harbour Tunnel for hours coming home from work because of TrafficNet being down. Also, I don't think I have ever read a book of any genre, in which people, when running away from baddies, or performing heroic acts etc- actually get hurt ie scratched by bushes, bitten by insects, need to go to the toilet etc. Has anyone else read this book? Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:40:16 -0000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kate Dall Subject: Re: Jones vs Rowling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have to agree with Maire on Harry Potter. My immediate reaction was that it had all been done before and done better: the book was a competent and reasonably entertaining children's fantasy but not much more. (Although I've only read the last in the series, which didn't get such good reviews, so maybe the earlier ones are better). Then I started wondering what children's literature has come to in the 10 years or so since I moved on to grown-ups books. If this stuff is the best around at the moment, kids writing is in real trouble. Cynthia wrote: <> Do you mean that Harry should have a sex change, or just that Hermione should get her own spin-off series where she gets to kick butt instead of just looking up better ways of kicking butt in the library? Frankly, neither option appeals to me: I don't find Hermione particularly interesting. I'd prefer to see better marketing of the heaps of books which have intelligent and brave girls as lead characters - Diana Wynne Jones is not alone. Try also Cynthia Voight, Madeleine L'Engle, and Margaret Mahy for starters. Of course there is always the archetypal Alice, who should surely be an example to any marketers who don't think boys will read books about girls. On the other hand, I am informed by a friend whose job is to sell children's books that the whole point about the Potter phenomenon is that the books are selling in huge numbers to boys who normally not only wouldn't read about girls but wouldn't read _at all_. And hell, if Harry is what it takes, good luck to him. Maybe they'll read Diana Wynne Jones next. Edward James: <> Yes, isn't she. I loved her stuff as a teenager, although nearly all memory of it has dissolved by now. There was one about three different species all living in the fens which I remember as being particularly good but unfortunately no title springs to mind. I hope she gets lots of sales out of the Potter phenomenon - she certainly deserves them. Dianne Kraft: <>. Have you seen her _The Tough Guide to Fantasy Land_? It's a hilarious piss take on fantasy, written in the style of a travel guide/index. You can look up all kinds of useful information, such as how to properly choose your companions for a quest (hair and eye colour are particularly important in judging whether a stranger can be trusted), which magical artifacts will be helpful and so on. Kate. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:55:58 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Sandy Candioglos Subject: Re: Jones vs Rowling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > prefer to see better marketing of the heaps of books which have intelligent > and brave girls as lead characters - Diana Wynne Jones is not alone. Try > also Cynthia Voight, Madeleine L'Engle, and Margaret Mahy for starters. Of > course there is always the archetypal Alice, who should surely be an example > to any marketers who don't think boys will read books about girls. And there's always Sylvia Engdahl, as well...http://www.sylviaengdahl.com/ I remember LOVING "enchantress from the stars" as a young girl; haven't read any of her stuff in 20+ years, though... -Sandy PS does anybody know where maryanne's children's SF list has gone to now that iam.com is gone? -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:16:40 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: Harry Potter and gender fear: Ethier after Cynthia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/2001 11:40:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, cynthea@PRODIGY.NET writes: << I'll wind this down and get to the point. Rowley has probably made her pile, now she ought to honor girls by making a girl the main character. The slights against girls and intellectuals need to be amended! (: Cynthia >> I don't disagree with you. You are absolutely right. But she can't do that, at least in the Potter series. Doing that, at least to the great of extent of replacing Harry with a central character would harm the series. In her next series, she should. But then so should alot of authors. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:19:58 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: Diana Wynne Jones & Phillip Pullman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/2001 1:21:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, DMKraft@COMPUSERVE.COM writes: << I'm surprised Phillip Pullman's trilogy (The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass) hasn't received more attention. I think it's a brilliant accomplisment, comparable to the best of C. S. Lewis. Anyone else read them? >> Yes, at least the first two. I'm waiting for the third to be in paper. I loved the Golden Compass because the main character is female. The Chrestomanci Castle books by Jones are quasi-aviable in the U.S. Science Fiction book club just re-issued them in an one book edition (sometime last fall or winter). So the volumne should be hitting used book stores. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:30:52 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: off topic: Guatemala rape case MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Considering that just a little bit ago we had brief discussion about the lack of print about women's stories, I've include an article (very brief) that appeared in my local paper (which also had a write up of International Woman's Day when it happened) on Wed. Its somewhat re-assuring because it shows that people get upset over rape rulings, but what happened is rather awful. >From the Philadelphia Inquirer Section A page 2 More than 1,000 people in Senahu, Guatemala, attacked a judge Monday after he ruled that two rape suspects must be released for lack of evidence, hacking him to death and setting his body on fire, police said. The crowd was holding three police officers and the mayor hostage yesterday after they tried to protect the suspects, whose fate was unclear. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:39:03 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: Jones vs Rowling In-Reply-To: <200103160608.AAA22774@listserv.uic.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sandy Candioglos wrote: > > prefer to see better marketing of the heaps of books which have > > intelligent and brave girls as lead characters - Diana Wynne Jones > > is not alone. Try also Cynthia Voight, Madeleine L'Engle, and > > Margaret Mahy for starters. Of course there is always the archetypal > > Alice, who should surely be an example to any marketers who don't > > think boys will read books about girls. > > And there's always Sylvia Engdahl, as > well...http://www.sylviaengdahl.com/ > > I remember LOVING "enchantress from the stars" as a young girl; > haven't read any of her stuff in 20+ years, though... Gods yes, Engdahl's books are wonderful, I read all her novels as a child and loved them. Also, many of Andre Norton's novels have strong interesting female protagonists (_Forerunner Foray_ & _Ordeal in Otherwhere_ come especially to mind). Many of her earlier (1960s and before) novels have very few female characters, but I'd guess that had more to do with the genre than with Norton. I fondly remember reading every Andre Norton novel I could find when I was young, they are also some of the few novels that I reread now and still love (Engdahl being another similar author in that respect). The Harry Potter books are but a poor shadow of those novels. I have a young nephew (age 5) and in a year or two he's going to start getting Norton's SF as Christmas presents :) -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:57:11 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: Chrestomanci and Eager MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From a recent essay for Contentville... Publisher HarperCollins recently reissued Wynne Jones^Ò Chronicles of Chrestomanci in two thick volumes, each containing two of the novels in the series. Volume One , contains Charmed Life and The Lives of Christopher Chant. Charmed Life introduces readers to Chrestomanci, the most powerful magic wielder in the related worlds, and the Chant children, Cat and Gwendolen, the orphaned pair who Chrestomanci takes under his tutelage. Christopher Chant discovers he the ability to travel through the Twelve Related Worlds, an ability he at first revels in, but which may be placing him in more danger than even a boy with nine lives can handle! The Magicians of Caprona and Witch Week comprise Volume Two. The eponymous magicians are imperiled when their magic spells begin to loose power, and even the powerful Chrestomanci seems at a loss to solve the problem. Finally, Witch Week deals with a mysterious letter received by the students at a mundane British school, stating someone there is a witch. Since the environment is distinctly unfriendly for magic users, those with powers have good reason to hide. Wynne Jones^Ò writing career has spanned several decades, and her work is as delightful now as it was when the books were new, twenty odd years ago. Part of the magic of her stories is the feeling that magical circumstances can occur in anyone's life, and something extraordinary could be lying in wait just around the corner. Creating characters who inadvertently discover magical items is a specialty of Edward Eager^Òs. The children in Half Magic , Magic by the Lake , Knight's Castle , and The Time Garden, and the rest stumble into their magical adventures through a little luck, and a lot of willingness to believe in the possibility of magic! Eager wrote his books in the late 1950^Òs, and they are set in first half of the twentieth century, but they have a timeless sense to them, even if the everyday objects may cause contemporary readers to pause for a moment. (Like a car you have to crank, or roller skates that come with a key.) My favorite of the books is Seven Day Magic, where a small red book at the bottom of the library's fairy tale section has been gathering all the magic that has flowed down from the section, and the children who check it out are able to write their own fantastic fiction! Eager^Òs books are also remarkable for his inclusion of other authors^Ò works and characters, from Sir Walter Scott to E. Nesbit. -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:15:04 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Cera Kruger Subject: Re: Chrestomanci and Eager In-Reply-To: <3AB245E7.67F6B253@mystgalaxy.com> from "Maryelizabeth Hart" at Mar 16, 2001 08:57:11 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maryelizabeth Hart writes: > >From a recent essay for Contentville... > >Creating characters who inadvertently discover magical items is a >specialty of Edward Eager^Òs. The children in Half Magic , Magic by the >Lake , Knight's Castle , and The Time Garden, and the rest stumble into >their magical adventures through a little luck, and a lot of willingness >to believe in the possibility of magic! Eager wrote his books in the >late 1950^Òs, and they are set in first half of the twentieth century, >but they have a timeless sense to them, even if the everyday objects may >cause contemporary readers to pause for a moment. (Like a car you have >to crank, or roller skates that come with a key.) My favorite of the >books is Seven Day Magic, where a small red book at the bottom of the >library's fairy tale section has been gathering all the magic that has >flowed down from the section, and the children who check it out are able >to write their own fantastic fiction! Eager^Òs books are also remarkable >for his inclusion of other authors^Ò works and characters, from Sir >Walter Scott to E. Nesbit. I read all the Edgar Eager books just recently, and while I enjoyed them quite a bit, I winced at how he used prevelant stereotypes to take short-cuts in his characterisation -- such as all the girls hating arithmetic. Quick, fun reads, but they seemed very much of the 1950's to me. -- Cera -- Cera Kruger -++- diony@idiom.com -+- http://www.requiem.com -++- SFLAaE/BS "And it's alright if you hate that way / hate me cause I'm different / hate me cause I'm gay / Truth of the matter come around one day / so it's alright." -- Emily Saliers (Indigo Girls' _Shaming of the Sun_) -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 05:40:46 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Santanico Subject: Re: Chrestomanci Castle (was Re: [*FSFFU*] Harry Potter and gender ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:25 PM 15/03/01 EST, you wrote: >When I read the first Harry Potter book, the first thought that came to my >mind was that surely this has been done before. They are very similar to many >books I read as a child 15 years ago- for example, a series I loved about a >young witch called Meg and her travails in witch school. Ooh, ooh! And how about Jill Murphy's "The Worst Witch" trilogy? The ones about a young teen witch named Mildred Hubble, and her (mis)adventures at a witches' boarding school? (I used to LOVE those books, in my misspent youth ;)). I haven't read the Potter books, so I don't know how similar they are (the HP books seem to be quite "Tom Brown's Schooldays"-ish, where "The Worst Witch" was more in the vein of "St. Trinian's"), but I do remember thinking, when the HP books first began to surface on an international radar, "Hmmm, sounds a bit familiar..." Sant. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:29:26 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Todd Mason Subject: Philadelphia Fantastic March 23--Rebecca Ore Comments: To: "fictionmags@yahoogroups.com" , "shortmystery@yahoogroups.com" , "isaac-l@yahoogroups.com" , "sciencefiction-l@listserv.indiana.edu" Comments: cc: Camille Bacon-Smith , bestsuspense@yahoogroups.com, TIMEBINDERS@SFLOVERS.RUTGERS.EDU, "pattikaiser@home.com" , Fred K Ollinger , "jetta195@aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" SF and CF writer Rebecca Ore's reading this Friday in Philadelphia. -----Original Message----- From: Camille Bacon-Smith [mailto:camille@VOICENET.COM] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 12:35 PM To: SF-LIT@sun8.loc.gov Subject: Philadelphia Fantastic March 23--Rebecca Ore Join the Philadelphia Fantastic authors, editors, and fans at BORDERS BOOKS, 1727 Walnut Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for our fourth year of readings in science fiction, fantasy, and horror. The exciting cutting-edge science fiction author Rebecca Ore will read from her new work on March 23, 2001 @7:30 pm. One of our growing family of critically aclaimed speculative fiction authors and editors who call the Philadelphia Area home, Rebecca Ore has once again astonished the literary world with a vision of near future dystopia. Hear Ore read from and discuss her latest, OUTLAW SCHOOL, a Locus recommended read which Kirkus Review calls "Brilliant." Philadelphia Fantastic presents a series of readings and informal discussions by and with local writers and editors of speculative fiction on the fourth Friday of the month. Our location is BORDERS BOOKS, 1727 Walnut Street, and the time is 7:30 pm. So grab a latte and join Rebecca Ore at Borders for some thought-provoking science fiction at its best. That's March 23rd. The readings are free: post-reading snack-hunt is pay as you go. Philadelphia Fantastic For further information about the Philadelphia Fantastic reading series, contact Camille Bacon-Smith: camille@voicenet.com and check out our website at http://www.voicenet.com/~camille/phillysf.html for news of upcoming events. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:28:34 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: ILLICIT PASSAGE progress report Comments: To: Feminist SF/Fantasy and Utopia Literature ON TOPIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard from Alice/Alison a few days ago, and the copies are on their (slow) way from Australia to Mysterious Galaxy. Will let everyone who requested a copy know directly as well as by announcing on the lists when they arrive! Pax, Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:59:27 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Michael J. Lowrey" Organization: The Working Class Subject: New website opened, dedicated to the works of "Calamity Jane" Austin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk/austin/ This newly established page is dedicated to the famous "Calamity Jane" Austin, early 19th Century Texan author, frontierswoman, and proto-feminist, author of: Northanger Abilene, 1823; Fence and Fencibility, 1824; Pride and Precipice, 1827; Winchester Park, 1828; Edda, 1831; Love and Fiendship (short stories) 1832; and Sandy Hills (unfinished) 1832. -- Michael J. Lowrey Cultures and Communities Program Curtin Hall 284 University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee P.O. Box 413 Milwaukee, WI 53201-0413 414.229.5960 -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:45:00 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Phoebe Wray Subject: OT bad news Comments: To: night@iland.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's not just the Taliban... phoebe w ------ More than 600 environmentalists, activists and political workers and leaders, men and women of Awami Tahreek (Peoples Movement) including AT President, PONMâ^À^Ùs Central Leader and Supreme Courtâ^À^Ùs Lawyer Rasool Bux Palijo were rounded up by more than 15 hundred policemen and rangers of four districts, between Kheber and Matyari at the main National Highway of Sindh Pakistan today in a bid to foil Awami Tahreekâ^À^Ùs Bhit Shah-Karachi Long March against the acute water shortage, district govt plan and unemployment. All the prisoners have been kept in Hatri, Sekhat and Cant Police Lockups and no one has been allowed to meet the 71-year-old renowned leader and women prisoners who have infants and suckling babies with them. Those who have been arrested include Sindhiani Tahreek (Sindhi WOMENâ^À^Ùs MOVEMENT) leaders: Suraj Halepoto, Pirah Khaskheli, Shahida, Sajida Bhano, Hamida Nizamani, Fatima Bagrani, Salma Bagrani, Afsana Nizamani, Bhori Menghwar, Maryam Rind, Bakhtawar Halepoto, Zahida Shaikh and others and Awami Tahreekâ^À^Ùs leaders Sartaj Chandio, Wishnoo Mal, Hakim Zangejo, Piral Bhano, Anwar Rind, Choith Ram, Ali Mir Shah, Mustafa Chandio, Bilawal Lashari, Mashooque Chandio, Munawar Jatoi, Didar Kandhro, Ashraf Palijo, Rahman Dahri, Kishor Kumar Kolhi, Poorho Mal, Kesroo Mal, Jamal Leghari, Faizal Jakhrani, Sadiq Bagrani and others. For the last several weeks there is no water for irrigation in Sindh and agriculture, aquatic life, mangrove forests, Indus Dolphins, fishermen, lower Indus ecology and livelihood of millions of people have been destroyed due to the water-stealing by the ruling Punjab Province of Pakistan. This is an unprecedented situation in the history of the Indus river where for centuries the river was used as a natural source for social and agriculture needs. The law enforcing authorities in the command of SSPs, Deputy Commissioner Hyderabad and several Majors of Rangers blocked the roads and asked the protesters to get into the trucks, but the emotional crowd of thousands refused and continued chanting slogans against the government for destroying the agriculture and economy of Sindh, on which police first tried to baton-charge the activists but thousands of AT supporters and villagers of adjacent villages gathered at Anwar Kot where Awami Tahreek chief himself raised slogans, â^À^ÜDarya Je Khatir Jhero Aaaâ^À^Ý â^À^ÜJijal Jey Khatir Jhero Aaâ^À^Ý (We will fight for our river, we will fight for our motherland) and advanced towards Matyari and Hyderabad. Then more than 1500 Policemen and rangers ferociously surrounded them and forcibly put them in dozens of Police vehicles and busses. Once again Mr. Rasul Bux Palijo tried to stand and address the crowd but policemen compelled him to sit in the van. At that time when the photographer of Daily Tameer Sindh tried to take photos of police brutality with the women of Sindhiani Tahreek and small children the DSP Police Head Quarter Qayoom viciously attacked the photographer and grabbed his camera. Due to extraordinary deployment of the rangers and police force, Karachi Peshawar National Highway was giving a look of an enemy area put under the curfew, which badly affected the routine traffic. After the arrest of hundreds of activists the angry crowd retaliated with stones and blocked the road. Police again rounded up more than 30 workers from the scene and took them to different police stations. The hide and seek between police and Awami Tahreek supporters continued for the rest of the day. , When AT leaders tried to hold a press conference in Qasimabad the Palijo House in Prince Town was encircled by the Police and till now several Mobile Trucks of Police are deployed in Prince Town. Talking to a group of journalists Awami Tahreek leaders Mohammad Khan Bhurgri, Siraj Siyal, Syed Alam Shah, Gul Hasan Kirano, Noor Nabi Rahoojo, Rafi Leghari, Hasan Pasayo termed the police act as barbarism and violation of human rights, as people of Sindh province had every right to protest against the hand made water shortage. They condemned the police and rangers attitude towards Mr. Palijo, ladies and infants, they said when the party workers tried to provide medicines to 71 years old Heart Patient Mr. Palijo in overcrowded Police Lockup, the SSP fiercely refused to allow them. The Awami Tahreek leaders have called for hunger strikes in all the districts of Sindh from tomorrow and onwards and said that such tyrannies of Punjab and establishment could not compel the people of Sindh to give up their protest campaign because water is a matter of life and death for them. Friends, we request you to join us in urging Pakistani Government, to release the renowned intellectual and civil society activist Mr. Rasul Bux Palijo and hundreds of women workers and peasants and to allow the discharge of water in Indus. The simple, action you can take in solidarity with the people of Indus valley: Please email your protest to the following: CE@pak.gov.pk, omar@sungi.sdnpk.undp.org, irn-wcd@netvista.net, wsc-network@yahoogroups.com, sindhorg@yahoogroups.com, kawish12@yahoo.com, ibrat@hyd.compol.com, helpasia@yahoogroups.com, nab@apollo.net.pk, worldsindhi@yahoogroups.com, nrb@apollo.net.pk -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU if there are problems.