From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:02:18 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:48:08 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0107C" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:07:39 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Ill-Made Mute Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aha.... the book that I have been going on about by a new Aussie writer Cecila Dart0thorton is in the top ten on teh bestselle list .... not sure how to feel about this. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:13:16 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Ill-Made Mute Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I might nominate it sometime -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Maire Sent: Monday, 16 July 2001 12:08 PM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Ill-Made Mute Aha.... the book that I have been going on about by a new Aussie writer Cecila Dart0thorton is in the top ten on teh bestselle list .... not sure how to feel about this. Maire -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:50:07 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Beth Brown Subject: Re: AI Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just picked up a copy of "Supertoys Last All Summer Long," a story collection by Brian Aldiss. In it is also a recounting of his interactions with Stanley Kubrick and Stephen Spielberg. Aldiss actually wrote two more stories, "Supertoys when Winter Comes." and "Supertoys in Other Seasons" which outline how he wanted to movie to go, a very very different direction from the one Spielberg finally took, and one which feels much cleaner and less treacly. Beth -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 04:19:15 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone... I have discovered the signature option in my mail program!! So here is my new signature... I am going to use it whenever I write to lists, in an effort to spark discussion. I have just started reaeding the Riddle-Master trilogy, so cant really comment. I am actually reading it because it is the book of the Month for another list I am on, though I had already bought it because it was recomended or mentioned somewhere at the femsf site. Unfortunately, the only people from the list that it is the BotM for, that ahve posted, have done so just to say that they had to put the book down after 100 pages as they coukldnt get into it. Which is not encouraging! I hope that wont be my expereince. Does anyone have something more encouraging, but non-spoilering, to say about the book? Children of God- *very* slight spoiler included. Children of God- well, theres a book. I read the Sparrow last year, but such was my enjoyment of it, that I waited and waited to read Children of God, wanting to draw out he expereince as much as possible. As it turns out, I think that IMHO, Children of GOd (CoG) is actually *better* than the Sparrow. Russels style is better- her use of POV is far mroe cohesive and less intrusive \, the jumping around in time, and of POV, doesnt disrupt the flow for the reader the way IMO it did in the Sparrow. The Sparrpw is a 'stand-alone' and when you finish it, you dont feel the auhtor intention to write a sequel the way you do with some books and series. However, I would really urge anyone who read hte Sparrow to read CoG, because your enjoyment of the Sparrow will be multiplied hugely. Bascially, all that stuff that you solowly, slowly work out in the Sparrow, is completely turned upside down in CoG... not that there are any contradictions.. its not like we suddenly find out Sandoz is a bastard or anything- its more to do with the R'Antata and the Runa... the humans mission to Rakhat was like thowing a stone into the pond... the ripples have spread far and wide, with far-reaching and unpredictable consequences. Was that too much of a spolier, that I should have used spolier space?? PLease tell me, if anyone things so. Dont think there was anythin that you oculdnt have gotten from teh back of the book blurb though. Wish that I was reading/had read both of these books for the femsf-lit list... those book discussions are always the best. Maire Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:47:05 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Michael J. Lowrey" Organization: The Working Class Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maire wrote: > I have just started reading the Riddle-Master trilogy, so can't really > comment. I am actually reading it because it is the book of the Month for > another list I am on, though I had already bought it because it was > recomended or mentioned somewhere at the femsf site. Unfortunately, the only > people from the list that it is the BotM for, that ahve posted, have done so > just to say that they had to put the book down after 100 pages as they > couldn't get into it. Which is not encouraging! I hope that won't be my > expereince. Does anyone have something more encouraging, but non-spoilering, > to say about the book? I enjoyed the heck out of the books (and they were three books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume-novel), and re-read them on occasion, with pleasure. They are what Extrude Fantasy Product tries to be, and fails. -- Michael J. Lowrey, Editor-in-Chief Sunrise Book Reviews -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 05:05:52 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3B548829.A44FF036@uwm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Michael- I feel much better now. Was there something particlarly feminist, or socially speculative, or so on, that perhaps is what put off those two people I mentioned do yo think? (both young males, def. not interested in feminist thought : )!!) Just occured to me that that perhaps could be ther reaosn... Although i am rather intrigues by one part of your post- what is the Extrude Fantasy Product?? I have never heard of such a thing, and cannot begin to guess! Alsp, by: 'and they were three books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume-novel),' do you mean, that each book in the trilogy was originally deisgned, or is able, to be read alone ie they are 'stand-alones'? AS opposed to what some series now seem to be- a extremely long book separted into three volumes? Maire Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael J. Lowrey Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 4:47 AM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- Maire wrote: > I have just started reading the Riddle-Master trilogy, so can't really > comment. I am actually reading it because it is the book of the Month for > another list I am on, though I had already bought it because it was > recomended or mentioned somewhere at the femsf site. Unfortunately, the only > people from the list that it is the BotM for, that ahve posted, have done so > just to say that they had to put the book down after 100 pages as they > couldn't get into it. Which is not encouraging! I hope that won't be my > expereince. Does anyone have something more encouraging, but non-spoilering, > to say about the book? I enjoyed the heck out of the books (and they were three books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume-novel), and re-read them on occasion, with pleasure. They are what Extrude Fantasy Product tries to be, and fails. -- Michael J. Lowrey, Editor-in-Chief Sunrise Book Reviews -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:33:26 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Kristina Solheim Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3B548829.A44FF036@uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Chiming in about what we're currently reading... I just started Tom Arden's Oroken series (ordered the first three books from amazon.uk). His language is beautiful! -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 05:46:16 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010717123030.00b9c868@solheimk.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never heard of Tom Arden! there you go- I've already learnt something! Maire Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Kristina Solheim Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 5:33 AM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- Chiming in about what we're currently reading... I just started Tom Arden's Oroken series (ordered the first three books from amazon.uk). His language is beautiful! -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:03:56 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: "Michael J. Lowrey" Organization: The Working Class Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maire wrote: > Thanks Michael- I feel much better now. Was there something particularly > feminist, or socially speculative, or so on, that perhaps is what put off > those two people I mentioned do you think? (both young males, def. not > interested in feminist thought : )!!) Just occured to me that that perhaps > could be ther reaosn... Not that I can think of... However, I will note that there is damned little _gratuitious_ heroic posturing and bloodshed in these works, which may put off the more bloodthirsty. > Although i am rather intrigued by one part of your post- what is the Extrude > Fantasy Product?? I have never heard of such a thing, and cannot begin to > guess! "Extruded Fantasy Product" (note the previously-missing 'd') is a term I picked up from the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.fandom, I think. It is used to characterize any of the myriad generic fantasies that have filled the bookshelves since Tolkien's heyday, most of which seem to be ordered by the pound, and to involve virtually no original thought or effort. I will leave as an exercise to the student which writers are generally regarded as emitters of E.F.P. :) > Also, by: 'and they were three books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume- > novel),' do you mean, that each book in the trilogy was originally deisgned, > or is able, to be read alone ie they are 'stand-alones'? AS opposed to what > some series now seem to be- a extremely long book separted into three volumes? Yes. In fact, of course, the LORD OF THE RINGS is a single narrative, broken up for reasons of publishing exigencies into three volumes. Some so-called trilogies are of the same nature; some, like the Riddle-Master books, were genuinely separate works. > Maire wrote: > > I have just started reading the Riddle-Master trilogy, so can't really > > comment. I am actually reading it because it is the book of the Month for > > another list I am on, though I had already bought it because it was > > recomended or mentioned somewhere at the femsf site. Unfortunately, the > only > > people from the list that it is the BotM for, that ahve posted, have done > so > > just to say that they had to put the book down after 100 pages as they > > couldn't get into it. Which is not encouraging! I hope that won't be my > > expereince. Does anyone have something more encouraging, but > non-spoilering, > > to say about the book? > > I enjoyed the heck out of the books (and they were three > books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume-novel), and > re-read them on occasion, with pleasure. They are what > Extrude Fantasy Product tries to be, and fails. > > -- > Michael J. Lowrey, Editor-in-Chief > Sunrise Book Reviews > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -- Michael J. Lowrey, Office Manager Cultures & Communities Program Curtin Hall 284 University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee P.O. Box 413 Milwaukee, WI 53201-0413 414.229.5960 -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:00:59 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3B549A2C.8E4FEBFA@uwm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Michael.. I *love* Extruded Fantasy Product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have been talking about this phenomenom for ages.. so glas someone has come up with a term for it! Believe me, I weill be using this one! Usually I just sya that i hate te LotR rip-offs, fantasy by the numbers, formualic prince/ss/urchin ona qquest, assembling a band of eccentric travellers, to save the world/fend of invading hordes/ evil wizards, have a mentor but lose him before a crucial challenge, all with the aid of, or in order to find, some sort of talisman, grail etc. This the sort of thing you are talking about? Its a shame, because for a while, I lost all faight in fantays as a genre, and decided to stick to sf. But there is nothing more dlightful than a really original and well-written fantasy (and nothing rarer : ).... (have I mentioend the Ill-Made Mute yet ?? LOL- sorry- I just read it and its everything that is rare in fantasy at the mo) Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael J. Lowrey Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 6:04 AM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- Maire wrote: > Thanks Michael- I feel much better now. Was there something particularly > feminist, or socially speculative, or so on, that perhaps is what put off > those two people I mentioned do you think? (both young males, def. not > interested in feminist thought : )!!) Just occured to me that that perhaps > could be ther reaosn... Not that I can think of... However, I will note that there is damned little _gratuitious_ heroic posturing and bloodshed in these works, which may put off the more bloodthirsty. > Although i am rather intrigued by one part of your post- what is the Extrude > Fantasy Product?? I have never heard of such a thing, and cannot begin to > guess! "Extruded Fantasy Product" (note the previously-missing 'd') is a term I picked up from the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.fandom, I think. It is used to characterize any of the myriad generic fantasies that have filled the bookshelves since Tolkien's heyday, most of which seem to be ordered by the pound, and to involve virtually no original thought or effort. I will leave as an exercise to the student which writers are generally regarded as emitters of E.F.P. :) > Also, by: 'and they were three books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume- > novel),' do you mean, that each book in the trilogy was originally deisgned, > or is able, to be read alone ie they are 'stand-alones'? AS opposed to what > some series now seem to be- a extremely long book separted into three volumes? Yes. In fact, of course, the LORD OF THE RINGS is a single narrative, broken up for reasons of publishing exigencies into three volumes. Some so-called trilogies are of the same nature; some, like the Riddle-Master books, were genuinely separate works. > Maire wrote: > > I have just started reading the Riddle-Master trilogy, so can't really > > comment. I am actually reading it because it is the book of the Month for > > another list I am on, though I had already bought it because it was > > recomended or mentioned somewhere at the femsf site. Unfortunately, the > only > > people from the list that it is the BotM for, that ahve posted, have done > so > > just to say that they had to put the book down after 100 pages as they > > couldn't get into it. Which is not encouraging! I hope that won't be my > > expereince. Does anyone have something more encouraging, but > non-spoilering, > > to say about the book? > > I enjoyed the heck out of the books (and they were three > books, originally, not Tolkien's three-volume-novel), and > re-read them on occasion, with pleasure. They are what > Extrude Fantasy Product tries to be, and fails. > > -- > Michael J. Lowrey, Editor-in-Chief > Sunrise Book Reviews > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -- Michael J. Lowrey, Office Manager Cultures & Communities Program Curtin Hall 284 University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee P.O. Box 413 Milwaukee, WI 53201-0413 414.229.5960 -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:12:10 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lori Selke Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010717123030.00b9c868@solheimk.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Kristina Solheim wrote: > Chiming in about what we're currently reading... > > I just started Tom Arden's Oroken series (ordered the first three books > from amazon.uk). His language is beautiful! I just finished Gregory Maguire's _Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister_ this morning. It was fantastic. Lori -- selk@io.com, selk@mindspring.com, http://www.io.com/~selk "But this isn't a dance! It's upright delirium!" -- The Desert Peach -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:22:05 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just finished Patricia McKillips' Spindle's End, her retelling of the sleeping beauty story, and found it excellent. Not extruded, and definitely feminist in flavor.... And we can't mention non-extruded fantasy (that is a great descriptor) without again mentioning Diana Wynne Jones, who does a fabulous job of jolting the genre. Dianne K. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:52:48 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lori- I was just going on at another list about Maguire's Wicked, and how I much I am looking forward to reading Confessions. Maire Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Lori Selke Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 6:12 AM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Kristina Solheim wrote: > Chiming in about what we're currently reading... > > I just started Tom Arden's Oroken series (ordered the first three books > from amazon.uk). His language is beautiful! I just finished Gregory Maguire's _Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister_ this morning. It was fantastic. Lori -- selk@io.com, selk@mindspring.com, http://www.io.com/~selk "But this isn't a dance! It's upright delirium!" -- The Desert Peach -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:53:54 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <200107172322_MC3-D999-11A7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought Spindle's End was by Robin McKinley? just checking... yes it it by R MvKinley. Oh well, at least you remembered the title, I invariably forget both Maire Currently Reading: The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia McKilip Just Read: The Children of God by Mary Doria Rusell -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Dianne Kraft Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 1:22 PM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- I just finished Patricia McKillips' Spindle's End, her retelling of the sleeping beauty story, and found it excellent. Not extruded, and definitely feminist in flavor.... And we can't mention non-extruded fantasy (that is a great descriptor) without again mentioning Diana Wynne Jones, who does a fabulous job of jolting the genre. Dianne K. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Monica Norman Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Back lurking on this list after a 2-3 year hiatus. Seems quieter here these days. Just starting "The Silver Wolf" by Alice Borchardt. Haven't seen any reviews, and haven't read enough to know if it's "extruded" or not, but enjoying it so far. Also reading "Truth & Bright Water" by Thomas King, and (she admitted sheepishly) the latest Tony Hillerman. :-) Monica "Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace." Amelia Earhart ----- Original Message ----- From: Dianne Kraft To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Anyone there? and my currently reading- > I just finished Patricia McKillips' Spindle's End, her retelling of the > sleeping beauty story, and found it excellent. Not extruded, and > definitely feminist in flavor.... > > And we can't mention non-extruded fantasy (that is a great descriptor) > without again mentioning Diana Wynne Jones, who does a fabulous job of > jolting the genre. > > Dianne K. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:14:44 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: Anyone there? and my currently reading- Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/18/2001 4:01:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, monica@THE-DOJO.COM writes: << Just starting "The Silver Wolf" by Alice Borchardt. Haven't seen any reviews, and haven't read enough to know if it's "extruded" or not, but enjoying it so far. Also reading "Truth & Bright Water" by Thomas King, and (she admitted sheepishly) the latest Tony Hillerman. :-) >> Have read "The Silver Wolf" and its prequel (haven't read the last one in the series. It's out in hardcover). I liked "Silver Wolf", most of the femist issues are those you would see in any historical fiction novel (women as belonging to the men etc.) I liked the way the character developed. Chris (who just got done reading a bio of Queen Elizabeth I and is currently reading Hunter's Moon by Garry Kilworth.) -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:18:08 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Mary-Ellen Maynard Subject: BDG - August Selection Comments: To: FEMINISTSF-LIT@listserv.uic.edu Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Discussion Groupers; Next month wešre discussing; Brain Plague by Joan Slonczewski. Discussion will be officially started by the nominator about the first Monday of August. Enjoy! Mellen For the BDG Volunteers Upcoming Books- 3-4 September: The Gumshoe, the Witch, and the Virtual Corpse by Keith Hartman 1 October: The Fortunate Fall by Raphael Carter *************************************************************************** The BDG provides a forum for focusing discussion on a particular book during a one month period. The books discussed are nominated and chosen in advance by a vote of all members of the FSFFU-L list serve who choose to vote. Start thinking about your nominations now. To quote our list-mistress, "This does not prohibit discussion of the BDG books at other times; nor does it prohibit discussion of non-BDG books." If you have any other questions about the Book Discussion Group (BDG), it's selections, previous discussions or the Feminist Science Fiction, Fantasy and Utopias Literature List Serve (FSFFU-L), you can start with the BDG website at; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/1304, or the FSFFU-L website at; http://www.exo.net/~lauraq/femsf/listserv/fsflit/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jennifer H Subject: what I'm reading Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm on an odd reading project right now -- reading fiction with rats in it. The kids books I've read or found seem to cover lots of genres but I'm noticing that books for adults that mention rats are horror, fantasy, or science fiction. I just finished Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere. Nothing especially feminist in it. (Some of his books have had feminist bits though I wouldn't call him a feminist writer.) I think he tried to stuff in too many sub plots. Still, I enjoyed it and it's got some beautiful creepy writing. Jennifer Hinds jhinds@wavetech.net -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 14:38:54 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jason le Grange Subject: Some responses from Mary Doria Russell Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List I sent the comments about The Sparrow and Children of God to Mary, and she has answered some of the questions and made some additional comments on the discussion. Jason Maire writes: << Quite a few people seem to be bothered by some aspect of the Sparrow.>> Excellent. That was the idea. I didn't want it to be a popcorn book, where you eat it up without really paying attention to it, and then forget it. >> I remember on this list a mild furour because some people felt very offended by the fact that the terible thing that happened to Sandoz was that he was raped- and that it was as though a man getting raped was the most terrible ting that could ever happen, whereas nowhere as much sympathy is given to female rape victims. ok, now I can see their point. but I dont think that the solution is that Sandoz shuod have 'pulled' himself together' and so on- but rather that *women* getting raped shuld also be treated as the most terrible thing in the world.>> A few comments on this: first, what broke Sandoz's heart was the death of Askama. The rapes made him murderous, but when he killed Askama, he officially and decisively went to pieces. Second, I agree with the writer above--I wanted to make sure that no man who read The Sparrow would ever take rape lightly again. I gave male readers a protagonist they could identify with, and 400 pages of aftermath. You never ever "get over it." You never feel safe again. You will never be unraped. Third, I don't think the Jesuits were all that sympathetic to Sandoz. They were uncomfortable, and cleared their throats, and looked away, and mostly tried not to think about it. But they were also under the impression that he'd prostituted himself, so there was an undercurrent of emotion from pity to disgust. Which is why I also provided the counterpoint about Sofia's prostitution: this is never a profession that anybody takes up because they think it's a swell job with good benefits and a lot of personal growth. As the Father General says, prostitution does have at least some shred of dignity: it's a transaction. But the fact is, it can turn into rape in a heartbeat. Anyone who does this for a living deserves the empathy you felt for my characters. >>Also- Sandoz was not just raped, he was sodomised, by 17 different J'anata, for over 8 months. the more he struggeled, the more they liked it. Now I cant help but think that to be forcefully sodomised has to be just a terrible agony- more so than being vaginally raped. >> Not being in a position to judge this, I would only say choosing between different kinds of rape is not an enviable decision. >> To me, there is no insiuation whatsoever that what Sandow went through was worse because he was a *man* it was the particular conditions of his treatment that rendered it so soul-destroying. ok, there is an obvioius contrast with Sophia Mendes... orphaned at 14 in war-torn Istanbul, she sold herself in order to survive. But she is tough, capable, brilliant- in stark contrast to Sandoz' complete collapse. But I think this is the result of the different personalities involved, not because rape and prositution was somehow easier for Mendes, as a woman.>> Absolutely. The two characters are in many ways mirror images. Sandoz had a chaotic brutal childhood, while Mendes had a good start in a fine home with loving parents. She lost all that at about the age that Sandoz is pulled out of the slum and sent to a Jesuit boarding school. She gets through the next two years of war and prostitution because she's got that inner core of strength, while Sandoz tries to adapt to the lack of brutality in his new surroundings. Both of them become competent functioning adults, but Sofia does so by freezing her emotions, refusing to think about "the years before Jaubert." Emilio does so by letting his emotional guard down. But all that being said, they are not meant to be emblems of rape. They are supposed to be fully rounded human beings who endure dramatic and harrowing experiences and survive on sheer guts and intelligence. There is a whole lot more to them than sexual assaults. << And of course, perhaps the *real* issue for Sandoz was not so much the rape, as his issue with God- an entity that he had had basically been havin g a love affair with for years- he believed he was fulfilling a divine purpose, had completely trusted in god etc etc.. and had then had expereinces that seemed almost designed to destroy his body and soul- how couldh e help but see this as the greatest betrayal possible by an entity he had devoted his life to. An entity he believes all-powerful- easily able to alter the course of events, but instead chosing a course of events that see Sandoz destroyed.>> Exactly. Sandoz is a full-blown bridal mystic. He experiences God in a direct, emotional way. He describes it in terms reminiscent of Santa Teresa de Avila's, and when the mission goes to hell, he feels it as a direct and personal betrayal, on an emotional level. Intellectually, he knows that God did not kill all those Runa babies, but he does feel that Anne Edwards was right: if God gets the credit for the good things, He's got to take the rap for the bad. >> What is *really* interesting- just *so* interesting is to read Chiodren of God. It is told from different POVs, including some of the arch 'vililans' of the Sparrow. It is so interesting to see that it is actually cultural misunderstandings which have caused this devestating turn of events, rather than deliberate malice.>> Exactly my intent. Just as an example: the Zulus believed that if a person dies suddenly and violently, their soul does not have time to escape and becomes trapped in the body. Therefore, if your defeated foe was honorable, it was a matter of duty and a sign of respect that you disembowel him -- thus setting his soul free. The British thought this was an example of horrific savagery. As an anthropologist, I was aware of that what looks like depravity from an outsider's point of view might be good manners from an insider's. When I began writing CoG, I had no hope that The Sparrow would ever be published. I was getting a steady stream of rejections, but I still wanted to turn the story around, and see it from the "alien" p.o.v. Just as with my human characters, Supaari was doing the best he could in an unprecedented situation, and he meant no harm. Misunderstandings and tragedies are almost inherent in a first contact situation. You can't know what you're wrong about until the wrongness bites you in the butt. You aren't being deliberately mistaken! ------------------ Gwen replies: Maire, I liked _Children of God_ better than _The Sparrow_ also. In Sparrow: It's been a while since I read it, so hope I'm remembering everything correctly. I had less of a problem with the sensitivity to male vs. female rape issues as with the unbelievability of the Catholic hierarchy's unsympathetic response to Sandoz. Is it possible they could be so dense and cruel? Well, OK, but to a devoted Catholic priest? >> Oh, man! Could they ever. I read a lot of autobiographies of priests, and I know a lot of Jesuits now. You're dealing with a whole bunch of guys, here. Not to be too sexist, they are not, in general, real good about being open about their feelings and helping one another through emotional crises. There is a lot of alchoholism, a lot of depression. The hierarchy tends to be cold as hell, and if a guy has a problem, the attitude is, stick him in a program, and if that doesn't work, tough. In reality, if a guy like Sandoz wanted to "sign out," (leave the priesthood) after being publicly exposed in a scandal vaguely like the one in the book, they'd have handed him his suitcase, and shown him the door. Ex-priests wind up in the gutter more often than you'd like to believe. They have very few saleable skills when they leave, and they've lived very sheltered lives in many ways: they never worked for a salary, or paid their own rent or bought groceries. So really? I thought that I was overdoing the compassion and understanding. That's the unrealistic part of the story! >>This was not convincing to me, although I've heard Russell speak, and know that she's well-versed in Catholicism. She based Sandoz on a real missionary who was tortured by Native Americans, then decided to return, despite that. I wondered if his interaction with the Catholic hierarchy was similar? >> It's an overstatement to say that Sandoz was based on St. Isaac Jogues, but yes--when Jogues returned to France after 7 years of horrific slavery among the Huron, he had no fingers left, and he was penniless. He walked from the coast to the Jesuit residence he was from, and showed up on CHRISTMAS EVE (I am not making this up), and was initially turned away at the door. He was unrecognizable after his ordeal, and the porter thought he was a beggar. Appalling, on many levels... >>Also, I feel it is unfriendly to readers to have all the characters know what's going on, but not let the readers in on it until the end. Eliminating the alternating chapters of present vs. flashback would have solved that, but perhaps offered less narrative tension. >> Well, I didn't do it to be unfriendly. I did it to keep the tension and mystery going. I thought that was a plus. >>Russell did such an excellent job of presenting the alien world and its creatures. She has been working on her third book - nonfiction about Italian resistance to the Nazis - for over three years and I can tell she is brilliant, and a perfectionist.>> Thank you, Gwen. It's sweet of you to assume I'm being a perfectionist instead of just being lazy and disorganized! A Thread of Grace is a novel, but based on real events. It's taking me a long time because (1) it's really, really hard, (2) I've had two abdominal operations during the writing of this book, and another health problem that slowed me down for about 6 months, and (3) I'm now officially in the sandwich generation, with a husband and teenage son on one hand and on the other, elderly parents and in-laws who have had their own medical crises. Life is a whole lot more complicated now than it was when I was writing the first two books. -------------- Diane writes: I couldn't resist chiming in about these books. I read them several years ago, and thought (and think) they were some of the best novels I've ever read. Brilliant >> You are too kind. Brilliant would have been writing them easily. I was just dogged. >>-until I got to speak to the author at Armadillocon last year, I was convinced they had been written as one novel, that she had been forced to separate for reasons of cost or something. The way she takes reality and spins it and twists it so that what you know is true by the end of the first, is simply not true by the middle of the second, was breathtaking.>> One advantage of not being able to get an agent to take Jesuits in Space seriously for 18 months was the fact that I could go back over The Sparrow and make adjustments so that Children of God flowed organically out of the initial book's events. As I wrote CoG, I could go back to The Sparrow and change some things, or choose a particular word, or set things up better. At the time, it was awful getting all the rejections, but it turned out well. >>She was a wonderful con guest, by the way, funny as hell, and friendly, and as smart as you might imagine. >> Again, thank you very much. You are too kind. >>She claimed that she started Children of God as a novella, and that it took on a life of its own. >> Not quite. When I started writing what would become The Sparrow, I thought I was trying a short story. I knew from the beginning that Children of God was a full scale novel. Not one that would ever get published, mind you... >> Her new book is about Jews escaping to Italy during WWII, and she read a bit of it, and it gave me goosebumps. I'll even forgive her for it not being SF. >> Good. I'm hoping that readers who liked the first two book will like this one as well. If I ever finish the goddamned thing! -------------- Gwen writes: >> I'm adding a PS to my comments about Mary Doria Russell: I recall that she said her inspiration for the alien beings who were dominant on Rakhat was an experience in Australia. She was exploring with others (somewhere in the outback?)>> Doing a field survey for archeological sites weathering out of the dunes near Menindee. I worked in Australia for about 8 months, in two goes. >> and crested a hill to come face to face - or rather face to chest - with a huge kangaroo, which frightened her to death. She said she knew enough about the animal to realize it could do serious damage to her if it felt threatened. Fortunately, it hopped off. I would not say I was frightened to death! I would say that I was very, very respectful. ------------------------ Maire writes: >>errr yess... well, kangaroos do serious damage all the time. They insist on throwing themselves onto the bonnets of moving cars... the damage has to be seen to beb elieved. Aussies who regularly drive in the bush/ rural areas have to have special bumpers put on their cars. But as for attacking a person? Ummm, dont *think* so, though I can understand that some of them are so huge, they could seem intimidating.>> Yes, indeed. The very word. I didn't expect to be killed, but I was truly impressed by the gentleman kangaroo's size and presence, and I had no wish to in any way disturb his equanimity. --------------------- Louise writes: >> I've heard that kangaroos can actually be quite aggressive. My mum often tells me about an incident on the Early Bird show (anyone remember it?) where they had a kangaroo in and it decided it didn't particularly like Marty Monster (guy in a big costume), so it grabbed onto him with it's front legs and preceded to repeatedly kick him in the abdomen with it's hind legs (which are rather powerful) until the keeper enticed it to stop. If the guy hadn't been heavily padded within the costume, the kangaroo could have done quite a bit of damage.>> Exactly. I was told after my encounter that it was just as well that I had been so quiet and inoffensive, because if a roo thinks he's been threatened, he is likely to rock back on his tail and kick with his hind legs, and that they were capable of gutting a horse. This made me even more respectful, as you might imagine. But I was never seriously concerned about my own safety. I just stood still and kept my eyes down and tried not to make the roo concerned about his. ------------------------------------------------- Maire writes: >> That's the way that male kangaroos do the dominance thing, ie competing to be the male in the herd. It must have thought that the costume guy represented a threat. Personaly I have been around kangaroos dozens of times, and they have always been completely harmless and placid, >> Not to mention utterly stupid. They LOOK very alert and intelligent, and they have binocular vision and clavicles and appear quite focused, but I'm afraid there's nobody home in Mr. Kangaroo's house. They are very nearly as dumb as my collie. My particular roo was entirely unaggressive. He just looked down at me for an exceedingly long time, decided that I was of no further interest and bounded away. So while this encounter with a kangaroo was uneventful, it was certainly memorable, and I used it in imagining Sandoz's first contact with the Runa. --MDR -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 02:14:12 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: what I'm reading Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <200107210117.tli430.21l.37kbi1o@niles.mail.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jennifer H > > I'm on an odd reading project right now -- reading fiction with rats > in it. The kids books I've read or found seem to cover lots of genres > but I'm noticing that books for adults that mention rats are horror, > fantasy, or science fiction. Any reason, it just something you wanted to do? Have you seen China Mieville's urban fantasy novel _King Rat_, if humanoid rats work, Mary Gentle's _Rats and Gargoyles_ is excellent. -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:51:23 EDT Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Phoebe Wray Subject: Re: Some responses from Mary Doria Russell Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MDR -- Thank you very much for this response! Enlightening and fun. Great sharing. best wishes, phoebe w -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:40:16 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: Some responses from Mary Doria Russell Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks from me too! Her responses were really fascinating! Glad I didnt know she would be reading our comments when I was posting though ; ) It's better to buy a $1 stock if it goes up 100%, than to buy a $50 stock that will go up 100%." - Jim Coleman, former U.S. Attorney, partner of top Philadelphia law firm Ballard, Spahr, Andrews & Ingersoll -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Phoebe Wray Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2001 9:51 PM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] Some responses from Mary Doria Russell MDR -- Thank you very much for this response! Enlightening and fun. Great sharing. best wishes, phoebe w -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:42:24 -0400 Reply-To: Amy Harlib Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Amy Harlib Subject: Re: what I'm reading Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm on an odd reading project right now -- reading fiction with rats in it. The kids books I've read or found seem to cover lots of genres but I'm noticing that books for adults that mention rats are horror, fantasy, or science fiction. Dear Jennifer, I hope your ratty reading list includes: Wind in the Willows, Mrs Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, everything by Brian Jacques, The Deptford Mice Trilogy (it has rats in it too), and for grown-ups-----King Rat by China Mieville! Sounds like fun! Rodently Yours, Amy -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.