From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:02:22 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:48:08 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0107D" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Gwen Veazey Subject: MDR Response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C112AC.C546A220" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C112AC.C546A220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow. I'm back to my computer after a few days away, and was thrilled to = be greeted with authentic personal replies from Mary Doria Russell. I = greatly appreciate her taking the time to do this. Many thanks. Best, Gwen PS: Let's all send good thoughts and wishes to MDR for her health. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C112AC.C546A220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow. I'm back to my computer after a few days = away, and=20 was thrilled to be greeted with authentic personal replies from Mary = Doria=20 Russell. I greatly appreciate her taking the time to do = this. Many=20 thanks.

Best,

Gwen

PS: Let's all send good thoughts and wishes to = MDR for=20 her health.

------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C112AC.C546A220-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:51:50 -0700 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jason le Grange Subject: Fw: Some thanks from the list Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are Mary's last response. ><< Glad I didnt know she would be reading our comments when I was posting > though ; ) >>> > >That's why I rarely participate in list discussions. I don't even like to go >to panels based on my books or book clubs, although I get invited to them all >the time. The thing is, you can't please everyone, and readers who thought >the books sucked should be able to say so. At the same time, I don't like >being savaged anymore than anyone else! The answer is to stay out of the way >when freewheeling discussion is going on. Jason was careful to send me only >the comments that were unlikely to make me want to hide behind the furnace >and suck my thumb, so I was happy to respond. > >>> Let's all send good thoughts and wishes to MDR for her health. >> > >Thanks very much for the good wishes. I am fine--the problems were serious >but have been resolved. Last fall, though, my father had a heart attack, my >dearest uncle revealed that he had brain cancer, and my mother was diagnosed >with ovarian cancer--all in a two month span. Dad's made a good recovery, my >uncle died in November, and my mother did well on chemo, but has just had a >recurrence of the OC, so you can just imagine. > >Back to work. I got an extension on the deadline for the novel, but I want >this sucker finished soooooooooooo bad, and I've learned that I just can't >count on being able to set my own agenda anymore. Life keeps getting in the >way of fiction! --MDR > -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:43:17 -0500 Reply-To: asaro@sff.net Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Catherine Asaro Subject: Application to Date my Daughter/X-post Comments: To: paranormalromance@yahoogroups.com, SF-LIT@loc.gov, feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: RRA-L@LISTSERV.KENT.EDU, aarlist@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, everyone. Someone on one of the lists I'm on a few years or so ago sent me this hilarious piece called "Application to Date my Daughter." I seem to have lost it; I can't find it anywhere in my email files. Can anyone send it to me again? My daughter is getting to that age ... Thanks! -- Best regards Catherine Asaro http://www.sff.net/people/asaro/ -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:26:38 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <00bb01c112ce$4cf6f320$2a84cbcf@vistatech.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01C116FB.F71D9D00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C116FB.F71D9D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, i was just looking throught the femsf bdg archives for when The Sparrow was discussed for the BDG, and came across an URL for a discussion on Case of Consciense/ the Sparrow Now this is something that I very much regret not getting MRD's opinion on. I read James Blish' s Case of Conscience just abouta week before reading children of God, and the writing in to this list with my comments. in fact- it was probably reading Case of Conscioence that prompted me to read the Sparrow's sequel. When I read the Sparrow, I was astonished at its startling orignality. However, if you hae read Case of Conscience, then you cant help wonder at the huge number of striking similarities. it would certainly seem to go beyond coincedence. The author of the review at http://www.iplus.zetnet.co.uk/nonfiction/sparjdo.htm feels that the similarities are such that MDR does not deserve to have won the awards that she won (including the Arthur C. Clarke, and the Tiptree) because her book is lacking in the originality necessary for such accolades. He believes that her book is essentially a modern and sophisticated rewriting of Case o.C... although he is prepared to believe that the similarities may be coincedentsl. Although certainly no one is attributing any sinister motives to MDR ie no one thinks she was trying to 'rip Blish off' , I am very keen to hear exactly what *was* going on... had she read CaseoC, was she just revisiting its concepts, etc etc maire (sorrry- angry 2-year-ol in lap) [Maire writes:] -----Original Message----- From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwen Veazey Sent: Monday, 23 July 2001 2:50 AM To: feministsf@UIC.EDU Subject: [*FSFFU*] MDR Response Wow. I'm back to my computer after a few days away, and was thrilled to be greeted with authentic personal replies from Mary Doria Russell. I greatly appreciate her taking the time to do this. Many thanks. Best, Gwen PS: Let's all send good thoughts and wishes to MDR for her health. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C116FB.F71D9D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi=20 all,

i was=20 just looking throught the femsf bdg archives for when The Sparrow was = discussed=20 for the BDG, and came across an URL for a discussion on Case of = Consciense/ the=20 Sparrow

Now=20 this is something that I very much regret not getting MRD's opinion on. = I read=20 James Blish' s Case of Conscience just abouta week before reading = children=20 of God, and the writing in to this list with my comments. in fact- = it was=20 probably reading Case of Conscioence that prompted me to read the = Sparrow's=20 sequel.

When I=20 read the Sparrow, I was astonished at its startling orignality. However, = if you=20 hae read Case of Conscience, then you cant help wonder at the huge = number of=20 striking similarities. it would certainly seem to go beyond coincedence. = The=20 author of the review at http://www.= iplus.zetnet.co.uk/nonfiction/sparjdo.htm =20 feels that the similarities are such that MDR does not deserve to have = won the=20 awards that she won (including the Arthur C. Clarke, and the Tiptree) = because=20 her book is lacking in the originality necessary for such accolades. He = believes=20 that her book is essentially a modern and sophisticated rewriting of = Case=20 o.C... although he is prepared to believe that the similarities = may be=20 coincedentsl.

Although certainly no one is attributing any sinister motives = to MDR ie=20 no one thinks she was trying to 'rip Blish off' , I am very keen to hear = exactly=20 what *was* going on... had she read CaseoC, was she just revisiting its=20 concepts, etc etc

maire

(sorrry- angry 2-year-ol in lap)

[Maire=20 writes:] -----Original = Message-----
From: For=20 discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature=20 [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Gwen = Veazey
Sent:=20 Monday, 23 July 2001 2:50 AM
To: = feministsf@UIC.EDU
Subject:=20 [*FSFFU*] MDR Response

Wow. I'm back to my computer after a few = days away,=20 and was thrilled to be greeted with authentic personal replies from = Mary Doria=20 Russell. I greatly appreciate her taking the time to do = this. Many=20 thanks.

Best,

Gwen

PS: Let's all send good thoughts and wishes = to MDR for=20 her health.

------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C116FB.F71D9D00-- -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:51:34 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Patricia Mathews Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:26 AM +1000 Maire wrote: > > Hi all, > i was just looking throught the femsf bdg archives for when The Sparrow > was discussed for the BDG, and came across an URL for a discussion on > Case of Consciense/ the Sparrow > When I read the Sparrow, I was > astonished at its startling orignality. However, if you hae read Case of > Conscience, then you cant help wonder at the huge number of striking > similarities. it would certainly seem to go beyond coincedence. The > author of the review at http://www.iplus.zetnet.co.uk/nonfiction/sparjdo.htm feels that the > similarities are such that MDR does not deserve to have won the awards > that she won (including the Arthur C. Clarke, and the Tiptree) because > her book is lacking in the originality necessary for such accolades. He > believes that her book is essentially a modern and sophisticated > rewriting of Case o.C. Two desert cultures which never had any contact will come up with the same answers to the same problems - they are both communicating with the same environment. Two stories of the first rocket to the moon will have amazing similarities because they're about the same thing. But Blish's entire point was to set up an idyllic culture based on reason and then blast it apart, whereas Russell's cultures never were either idyllic not based on reason. That both cultures ended up blasted apart is a surprise only to those who have never read the histories of Western colonial expansion throughout the world in the 16th- 20th centuries - or, for that matter, Roman colonial expansion. Pat -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:16:02 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3827249244.995964694@dhcp-136-0222.unm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Umm... Im sorry, I really cant agree... are you trying to say the similarities are completely coincedental? (from http://www.iplus.zetnet.co.uk/nonfiction/sparjdo.htm The major similarities between the two books are mostly obvious ones. Both central characters are Jesuit priests sent off to contact an alien race. The Jesuits are of similar Latin American origin (Blish's Ramon Ruiz-Sanchez from Peru, Russell's Emilio Sandoz from Puerto Rico). The priests both fall from grace. Ruiz-Sanchez is accused of Manichaean heresy (believing that Lithia is literally a creation of the Devil, whereas the Catholic Church holds that creation is God's preserve alone, presumably so you know who to blame). Sandoz seemingly descends into murder and prostitution (whether pederasty or bestiality depends on how you view the Jana'ata, the dominant race on Rakhat). Both priests are seemingly redeemed by the end. The two books feature 'first contact' with an intelligent alien race, with the humans going to the aliens following interception of their radio signals. In both cases, the enterprise ends in tragedy -- in ACOC, for the alien race (whose planet is blown up entirely), in TS for the human explorers, all but one of whom are dead by the end -- though one suspects long term effects on the Rakhatians too, which will undoubtedly be taken up in the sequel. Both stories are set close in time in the near future: A Case of Conscience takes place in 2049/2050, while The Sparrow takes places between 2019 and 2060, with the main action on Rakhat between 2039 and 2042 (end excerpt) I wasnt quite sure whether you were arguing with mypost, or making another point entirely. I am saying that, whether deliberate/ consious or not, MDR's Sparrow appears exremely derivative of and bears strong similarities in plot, character and setting, to Case of Conscience by James Blish. Pat wrote: Two stories of the first rocket to the moon will have amazing > similarities because they're about the same thing. yes- thats reasonable. But thats not the point. ok, two stories of rockets to teh moon are plausible, could easily be a legitimate coincedence. But two stories about a Hispanic Jesuit priest on a mission to the first alien world with known intellegent life, discovered after radio broadcast, the jesiust has a 'fall from grace' and the cultures and crew are blown apart. ??? Thats what I getting at. Your post does strike me as somewhat ironic. I comment on the striking similarities between the stories, and you say ahh, but you shouldnt be suprised when 2 stories about the same thing have similar endings. No- of course thats not a suprise. the suprise is when there are 2 stores about the same thing- when that same thing is ... a Hipanic Jesuit priest on a mission to the first alien world with known intellegent life, discovered after radio broadcast, the jesiust has a 'fall from grace' and the cultures and crew are blown apart. Maire > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Patricia Mathews > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2001 12:52 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] MDR Response > > > --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:26 AM +1000 Maire > wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > i was just looking throught the femsf bdg archives for when The Sparrow > > was discussed for the BDG, and came across an URL for a discussion on > > Case of Consciense/ the Sparrow > > > When I read the Sparrow, I was > > astonished at its startling orignality. However, if you hae read Case of > > Conscience, then you cant help wonder at the huge number of striking > > similarities. it would certainly seem to go beyond coincedence. The > > author of the review at > http://www.iplus.zetnet.co.uk/nonfiction/sparjdo.htm feels that the > > similarities are such that MDR does not deserve to have won the awards > > that she won (including the Arthur C. Clarke, and the Tiptree) because > > her book is lacking in the originality necessary for such accolades. He > > believes that her book is essentially a modern and sophisticated > > rewriting of Case o.C. > > Two desert cultures which never had any contact will come > up with the same > answers to the same problems - they are both communicating with the same > environment. Two stories of the first rocket to the moon will have amazing > similarities because they're about the same thing. But Blish's > entire point > was to set up an idyllic culture based on reason and then blast it apart, > whereas Russell's cultures never were either idyllic not based on reason. > That both cultures ended up blasted apart > is a surprise only to those who have never read the histories of Western > colonial expansion throughout the world in the 16th- 20th centuries - or, > for that matter, Roman colonial expansion. > > Pat > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:33:58 -0600 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Patricia Mathews Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:16 AM +1000 Maire wrote: > Umm... Im sorry, I really cant agree... are you trying to say the > similarities are completely coincedental? Basically, yes. They're both dealing with the same thing: the Western conquest of the 3rd world. They handle it quite differently. They may have both been inspired by the same bit of history, which was repeated over and over between 1492 and now. Pat -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:33:47 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3829793454.995967238@dhcp-136-0222.unm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I find it impossible to say- thats why i would have loved to hav heard MRD coment on the similarities. I think they make an interesting juxtopistion in any case. I found ACoC fairly unsatisying myself- the first 2/3 I found to be , whhether I personally liked or not, quality, but it deterioirated into that sort of heroic schlocky pulpish stuff near the end. I usually dont have a problem with accepting author's improbable premises, in order to make a story work as a reader- but in ACoC, i found it hard to accpet that the alien reptile race were the work of the devil. IIRC, the Jesuit priest decided this simply because there was no history of developing morals- they had an ingrained code (ala the 10 Commandments) but no Moses or Jesus or group of thought etc from which these morals might have come. Therefore they were the work of Satan? I found it a bit hard to get my head around. Except for the obvious, striking similarities in the cast,setting etc, the Sparrow is a very different book. I mean- I dont think there is anything plagaristic (? grammar) about the similarities- its just that for anyone who has read both, I think it is unavoidable to draw comparisons. Had MDR read ACoC? Even if she hadnt, could she have remained unaware throughout hte editing process etc etc, that she had written a book with these similarities to a classic sf? And, if she knows, what does she think about it? Maire > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Patricia Mathews > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2001 1:34 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] MDR Response > > > --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:16 AM +1000 Maire > wrote: > > > Umm... Im sorry, I really cant agree... are you trying to say the > > similarities are completely coincedental? > > Basically, yes. They're both dealing with the same thing: > the Western > conquest of the 3rd world. They handle it quite differently. They may have > both been inspired by the same bit of history, which was repeated over and > over between 1492 and now. > > Pat > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:35:56 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <3829793454.995967238@dhcp-136-0222.unm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ps, MDR was certinaly wanting to write a First Contact novel, in which she illustrated the ease with which cultural misunderstandings can be made, to devestating effect. But I don't think that was what Blish was writing about. I have the book here- he writes a quite thorough foreward- his intentions were more to examine the theologocal questions Maire > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Patricia Mathews > Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2001 1:34 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] MDR Response > > > --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:16 AM +1000 Maire > wrote: > > > Umm... Im sorry, I really cant agree... are you trying to say the > > similarities are completely coincedental? > > Basically, yes. They're both dealing with the same thing: > the Western > conquest of the 3rd world. They handle it quite differently. They may have > both been inspired by the same bit of history, which was repeated over and > over between 1492 and now. > > Pat > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:41:43 -0400 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When MDR was at Armadillocon last year (in Austin, Texas) she was asked about the Blish novel, and said she had never read it. She had heard about the comparison after her book was published (as I remember) and said that if you're looking for bipedalism in order to create hands which could become tool-making, then a kangaroo like creature made logical sense, if you weren't going to go with primates of one sort or another. I believed her, and cannot imagine her consciously doing that kind of plagiarism. She's too smart, and too nifty. In my humble opinion. Dianne K. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:19:14 +1000 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <200107271942_MC3-DAAE-6C33@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That what I reckon too. This article I read (which I got the URL for, from the femsf archives) was saying that although he didne at all think it was deliberate, the very fat that the similarities existed meant that the book was no longer original enough to win awards > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Dianne Kraft > Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2001 9:42 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] MDR Response > > > When MDR was at Armadillocon last year (in Austin, Texas) she was asked > about the Blish novel, and said she had never read it. She had > heard about > the comparison after her book was published (as I remember) and said that > if you're looking for bipedalism in order to create hands which could > become tool-making, then a kangaroo like creature made logical sense, if > you weren't going to go with primates of one sort or another. > > I believed her, and cannot imagine her consciously doing that kind of > plagiarism. She's too smart, and too nifty. In my humble opinion. > > Dianne K. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:02:44 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Lori Selke Subject: Re: MDR Response Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Maire wrote: > That what I reckon too. > This article I read (which I got the URL for, from the femsf archives) was > saying that although he didne at all think it was deliberate, the very fat > that the similarities existed meant that the book was no longer original > enough to win awards Which I think is ridiculous. Why penalize a book on the basis of coincidence? (Of course, the original author clearly thought that it was *not* coincidence, just that it was not *conscious* plagiarism. In other words, that MDR had read -- and forgotten -- Blish's novel, internalized and digested it, and then regurgitated bits of it for her novel. Now we know that this is untrue too.) I think that basing a judgement of "originality" on plot and surface detail is a bit harsh. It's been said that there are only five basic plots in the universe. And are we only allowed one SF first-contact story, ever, featuring a Latin American Jesuit? Because we all know that they're interchangeable (sarcasm alert). I think the original author of the column under discussion had a bee up his butt because Blish was one of his fave authors (he says so about Blish in the first paragraph), and, rather than do honest research and bona-fide journalism, wrote a half-baked opinion piece sans fact-checking. To be blunt about it. Lori -- selk@io.com, selk@mindspring.com, http://www.io.com/~selk "But this isn't a dance! It's upright delirium!" -- The Desert Peach -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.