From LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU Tue Feb 12 16:32:30 2002 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:48:13 -0600 From: "L-Soft list server at UIC (1.8d)" To: Laura Q Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0111B" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:50:26 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joy Martin Subject: Re: FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic societies Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: Jo Ann Rangel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not to range too far afield here, but for the interested reader, here are some interesting feminist works (mostly novels) by Middle Eastern women. Beirut Blues, by Hanan al-Shaykh. She was born in Lebanon, raised in Beirut, moved to Cairo to complete her education, worked as a journalist, now lives in London (according to the blurb on the book. Things may have changed.) Also by the same author: 'Women of Sand and Myrrh', and ' The Story of Zahra', which was banned 'in several Middle Eastern countries'. 'The Innocence of the Devil', by Nawal El Saadawi, described as Egypt's foremost feminist writer, who 'tackles some of the thorniest problems of theology' and 'confronts the role of women in Muslim society'. Reading those descriptions, you wouldn't guess just how imaginative and wonderfully poetic her language is. And then also,'Dreams of Trespass: Tales of a Harem Girlhood", by Fatima Mernissi, a Moroccan writer. All of these are beautifully written; I doubt that there's a boring word in them. They combine deep love of their culture with fearless truth. That's what stands out in my memory, rather than the specific plots or information. Voices that are clearly of a world different from ours (US/Western European), but no less accessible for it.Their feminism might not be exactly how we in the West would define it, but that doesn't mean it's not. -Joy Martin -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:50:35 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joy Martin Subject: Re: FW: Atwood Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: davebelden@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/7/01 1:15:57 PM Central Standard Time, davebelden@EARTHLINK.NET writes: << Have courage! >> Don't worry, acknowledging fear isn't the absence of courage (some people define courage as acting despite fear, not the absence of fear). <> I am an agnostic on capitalism. I say that, because I do believe most of what we hear about capitalism is ideology, secular religion, not science. (Indeed, the dismal "science" of economics has hardly any predictive value, thus far.) However, as a feminist, I go by the old principle of we judge any system by how it treats the people on the bottom (usually if not always women), not how it treats the people on the top or in the middle. I have no problem with the mom and pop variety of capitalism, and I think the promotion of microbusinesses in the socalled third world, which benefits women greatly, is an excellent policy (only recently and very grudgingly even acknowledged by the likes of the World Bank). However, monopoly capitalism, and international corporate capitalism, are different beasts entirely. It's not too farfetched, IMO, to see them as the forebearers of a kind of neofeudalism, if unchecked by political responses. That's why I say, what's next? Even looking at the international corporate scene as a basically amoral, intrinsically benign form of trade , these are behemoths stomping around like godzilla on indigenous economies everywhere. The people leading in and working in these corporations may have the best of intentions, but that doesn't mean the end results, because human moral and ethical responsibility is subsumed in the corporate structure, are good for most people (aka women). In fact, it's pretty clear in lots of places that the results aren't good. Thus, the resistance to globalization politics worldwide. Is this the corporations fault alone? Probably not. It's a complex mixture of local and international politics, cultures, religions, etc. But to have blind faith in the process, in the system of capitalism, is just that IMO, faith, not science. Or it's fiction, without the science. Official fiction, without the fun of a good read. (I'm trying to bring this back to science fiction here:>))-Joy Martin -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:42:57 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Re: FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic societies Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for the references, I think the publishing industry of late has been jumping on the terrorist bandwagon doing fast runs of instant books about terrorism, makes me wonder if some of the books you mentioned have been selling more now or being ignored for the more trendy all encompassing "terroist" category, grin. Jo Ann -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:14:16 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joy Martin Subject: Re: FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic societies Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: Jo Ann Rangel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're welcome. I'd bet money that the books I mentioned aren't selling more at all.(Well, unless everybody reading this list goes out and buys them, in which case I'm taking the bet back. :>)) Almost all I've purchased before this year, and they weren't hot sellers . Some may be out of print, for all I know. There are some good books being published now - 'An Unexpected Light" being one (not about women, as such, but about Afghanistan), but the good ones were written mostly before 911, and just got lucky in the publishing business. Also, the woman who did Beyond (Beneath? Behind?) the Veil for BBC has another film out, or coming out. See this URL (if it's still current): http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/11/04/stiusausa03004 .html? There's also an interview with her on BBC on their web page, but I don't have the exact URL.-Joy Martin -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:24:49 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: FW: Atwood Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont agree that captialism brought women into employment etc.... my understanding is that it was the World Wars- women had to come out to do the factory and other previously men's work, and once given that taste of (relative) freedom, it rankled to be netted in by 50's era Maire Hard SF- Nov discussion "Darwin's Radio" by Greg Bear > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Diana Lago > Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2001 6:35 PM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] FW: Atwood > > > Hi to everyone, i would like to add just a little comment: > > >I > >>learned my feminism in England in the 1970s from women who were > >>socialists; but clearly it is capitalism, or at least the industrial > >>economy, that brought women off the isolation of the farm and > into modern > >>cities, employment, education and this enabled them to organize, think > >>together, turn the isolated feminist cry into a mass movement. Likewise, > >>the best hope for women in poor countries today is to modernize their > >>economies. (And one of the best ways to modernize the economy it's now > >>agreed by most economists is to empower and educate women). The > future of > >>North America is all bound up with the 'knowledge economy' and > women have > >>an equal, if not better than equal, chance of getting good employment > >>within it: women's strength is only going to grow as heavy industry > >>follows farming into an almost insignificant proportion of the working > >>population. > > > > I fully agree. > > > And however I disagree with both you. I mean that yes, it may be true that > capitalism, or at least the industrialeconomy, that brought women off the > isolation of the farm and into modern cities, employment, education but > there were 'dark' reasons: farms, capitalism generally speaking > needed more > employees, and the next ones were women. For example, the civil war in > United States between noth and south, supposedly to make black > people free: > here again there is a theory that says that capitalism needed > employees and > also purcharses, but slaves were not allow to purchase. And capitalism > needed to make them free. I hope I'm making sense because the > English thing > forces me to explain things too plain, too simple but I hope I have > introduced the idea: we have nothing to thank to capitalism: they began to > make woman free when they began to needed us as part of the system. Of > course we are taking advantage of it, i will never deny that. > > But we must not forget that women have always worked, always, > since the very > beginning, and it was during the Victorian years that men succeded in > enclosed women into the domestic area. > > Best > Nuria > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:29:03 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: FW: Atwood Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I completely fail to understand this- "Capitalism, surely through no good intentions but > only to serve its bottom line, has created an urban society where > women get > wages which gives them independence" >From my understanding of Russion history- industrialisation brought on *communism*. You could argue that industralisation brought abuot some degree of emancipation, but capitalism certainly did not cause industrialisation Its ok to discuss general feminist issues on this list isnt it- its just he femsf-lit list that you have to stick to femsf lit? Right? Maire Hard SF- Nov discussion "Darwin's Radio" by Greg Bear > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Dave Belden > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2001 6:18 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] FW: Atwood > > > Women have always held up more than half the sky in terms of > work. The point > for feminism is whether that work in the particular economy could be > translated into women's power and status. Farming in a feudal > economy seems > to have been the low point for women - men having too much power as > warriors, stock breeders, plowmen, and thereby landowners and > owners of all > property and ideology. Capitalism, surely through no good intentions but > only to serve its bottom line, has created an urban society where > women get > wages which gives them independence undreamed of on farms, and where they > get education. Being self-respecting, uppity creatures, they then > use those > things for their own purposes, create their own ideologies (feminisms). No > wonder there are horrible backlashes against women's power, in the form of > fundamentalisms all over the world, but I only think these will > take serious > power in farming economies (like Afghanistan); or in industrial ones that > have come under huge stress from very major catastrophes like complete > economic collapse, nuclear war, major plague (the kind that kills > a fifth of > the population or more). If that happens, my optimism is called off for a > few centuries. But short of that, capitalism itself is > surprisingly tolerant > of feminism, and gays, and the rule of law, and the ballot box - all of > which curiously help its agenda in various ways. Business does not benefit > from excluding talent and consumers by allowing racism and sexism, even if > it is taking ongoing major campaigns to convince businessmen of that fact. > Have courage! The sons of 1970s feminists are now of age. Most of > them will > march with their mothers and sisters if there's a serious rightwing string > of victories. Even Reagan, the highpoint of the rightwing backlash, didn't > overturn Roe v Wade. Even Maggie Thatcher didn't get rid of the National > Health Service. Let's keep nightmare scenarios like Atwood's in mind, and > struggle continually to preserve and extend our rights and freedoms, but > let's also be grateful that for once the underlying economic forces are > actually helping women's power more than hindering it in advanced > economies. > If we don't celebrate the good things the modern economy has made possible > for us (at the same time as struggling with the bad), then we are lying to > ourselves and descending into some weird fundamentalisms of our own. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Diana Lago > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:17 PM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] FW: Atwood > > > Hello > > > > > >>Hi to everyone, i would like to add just a little comment: > >> > >>But we must not forget that women have always worked, always, since the > >>very beginning, and it was during the Victorian years that men > succeded in > >>enclosed women into the domestic area. > >> > >>Best > >>Nuria > > > > Even in Victorian times, women worked - it's only middle-class > >women and > >above who didn't. I know a man who told me that in his childhood,women > >didn't work - and his mother even had a maid. He was very annoyed when I > >answered "So - what was the maid? An android?" But hey, she was working, > >wasn't she? > > > >Pat > > > > Yes, Pat, you're right, i should have been more concrete. And you comment > was just brilliant! Well done. > > Best > Nuria > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:31:14 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Re: FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic societies Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <133.43ed12f.291c11d2@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think a really great book, which started me on obsession with the lives of middle eastern and muslim women- is the "Nine Parts of Desire" by a Jewish American (woman) journalist.. I cant remember her name though... I have read many but cant ever rememver names- admire those who can Maire Hard SF- Nov discussion "Darwin's Radio" by Greg Bear > -----Original Message----- > From: For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature > [mailto:feministsf@UIC.EDU]On Behalf Of Joy Martin > Sent: Friday, 9 November 2001 3:50 AM > To: feministsf@UIC.EDU > Subject: Re: [*FSFFU*] FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic > societies > > > Not to range too far afield here, but for the interested reader, here are > some interesting feminist works (mostly novels) by Middle Eastern women. > > Beirut Blues, by Hanan al-Shaykh. She was born in Lebanon, raised > in Beirut, > moved to Cairo to complete her education, worked as a journalist, > now lives > in London (according to the blurb on the book. Things may have > changed.) Also > by the same author: 'Women of Sand and Myrrh', and ' The Story of Zahra', > which was banned 'in several Middle Eastern countries'. 'The > Innocence of the > Devil', by Nawal El Saadawi, described as Egypt's foremost > feminist writer, > who 'tackles some of the thorniest problems of theology' and > 'confronts the > role of women in Muslim society'. Reading those descriptions, you wouldn't > guess just how imaginative and wonderfully poetic her language > is. And then > also,'Dreams of Trespass: Tales of a Harem Girlhood", by Fatima > Mernissi, a > Moroccan writer. All of these are beautifully written; I doubt > that there's a > boring word in them. They combine deep love of their culture with fearless > truth. That's what stands out in my memory, rather than the > specific plots or > information. Voices that are clearly of a world different from ours > (US/Western European), but no less accessible for it.Their > feminism might not > be exactly how we in the West would define it, but that doesn't mean it's > not. -Joy Martin > > -------------------------------------------------- > This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for > discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To > unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to > LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: > unsubscribe feministsf > > Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. > -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:28:15 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Frances Subject: Re: FW:Article about the role of women in Islamic societies Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nine Parts Desire: The Hidden World of Islamic Women by Geraldine Brooks Google.com can find damn near anything. I don't even bother with quotation dictionaries any longer -- just stick the key words in its little search box. And it just struck me -- this capacity used to be science fiction! Frances -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:05:34 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: Commitment Hour by James ALan Gardner Comments: To: fantastic & utopian literature For discussion of feminist SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I have just started reading this book- not seriously, just as my leave in teh loo book. However, I have been very quickly grabbed (unusual for me) and also, suprised- its got a premise of being set in roundabout 25 C, most of humanity has deserted earth adn gone off with aliens (apparently?) and the remaining people somehow have a mechanism where they chenge from man to woman until the age of ..well, I think I remember reading it is 20, but that doesnt seem right, because the protag talks of his years as a man and years as a woman- I dont know, I got the impression that they had more years behind them in each sex. ANyway, I think its 20- when they have their "Commitment HOur" and must choose which sex to remain as. Except for a small portion of the population who refuse to give up either part of themselves, and become "Neuts"- must abhored, aparently. Anyway, my question is this- has anyone here read it? The fact that its even on my bookshelf when I hae never heard of hte author elads me to suspect that I got the title from a recomendaion- at this list? Now... excuse me for being horrible sexist but..given its a male author.. Im sorry! Im sorry! does it have anything thought provoking to say about gender etc? ie, is it "gender-bendering" Is this book good? is what I am trying to say I guess what sort of book is it? Maire Hard SF- Nov discussion "Darwin's Radio" by Greg Bear -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:30:28 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: Commitment Hour by James ALan Gardner Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Maire wrote: > teh loo book. However, I have been very quickly grabbed (unusual for me) > and also, suprised- its got a premise of being set in roundabout 25 C, > most of humanity has deserted earth adn gone off with aliens (apparently?) > and the remaining people somehow have a mechanism where they chenge from man > to woman until the age of ..well, I think I remember reading it is 20, Sometime in early adulthood. > "Commitment HOur" and must choose which sex to remain as. Except for a small > portion of the population who refuse to give up either part of themselves, > and become "Neuts"- must abhored, aparently. Yes. I've read it. > on my bookshelf when I hae never heard of hte author elads me to suspect A lot of things work that way. I'll dearly love a book nobody else has ever heard of, or thinks is tripe. > that I got the title from a recomendaion- at this list? Now... excuse me for > being horrible sexist but..given its a male author.. Im sorry! Im sorry! > does it have anything thought provoking to say about gender etc? ie, is it > "gender-bendering" Is this book good? is what I am trying to say I guess > what sort of book is it? > Maire OK. I liked it. I didn't keep it, but I liked it. Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:58:11 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Joy Martin Subject: Re: Commitment Hour by James ALan Gardner Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu Comments: cc: mairen@bigpond.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/01 8:06:22 AM Central Standard Time, mairen@BIGPOND.COM writes: << the protag talks of his years as a man and years as a woman- I dont know, I got the impression that they had more years behind them in each sex. ANyway, I think its 20- when they have their >> I haven't read it, but that doesn't mean anything. The premise is similar to LeGuin's 'Left Hand of Darkness' , except of course her book was on a different planet (earthlike enough for purposes of comparison), rather than a postdeparture earth. If I remember correctly, (sigh another book it's been too long since I've read), being in the neutral stage was more normal,or at least, not looked down upon, in Left Hand of Darkness. And (I think) unlike in the book you describe, no lasting commitment to either sex was necessary. Anyway, it's always fun to find a book no one else (or not very many people) has heard of, and that grabs you. Sometimes that leads to being a lifelong fan of a certain author(and sometimes, it's only that one book).-Joy Martin -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:30:43 EST Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Christine Ethier Subject: Re: New Anita Blake book Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering if anyone besides me has read the new Anita Blake book, Naricuss in Chains. I know people on this list don't usually get hardcovers, but hopefully someone else still had a gift money. I'm not going to give any spoilers or anything. However, Hamilton does not know anything about swans. Chris -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Dianne Kraft Subject: Re: New Anita Blake book Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, but I'm totally addicted to Laurel Hamilton, and did already buy and read Narcissus in Chains. And I liked it. I preferred her last book, the first in the fairy series, but I still enjoyed Narcissus. Kind of kinky, could have used some editing, but I was pulled along and sucked in and had a good time. I thought she'd written herself into a corner w/ Anita, but she seems to find new places to take her. What did you think? Dianne K. -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:37:28 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: New Anita Blake book Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <200111100121.tuphqu.phk.37kbi0u@strange.mail.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dianne Kraft wrote: > > I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, but I'm totally addicted to > Laurel Hamilton, and did already buy and read Narcissus in Chains. > > And I liked it. I preferred her last book, the first in the fairy > series, but I still enjoyed Narcissus. Kind of kinky, could have > used some editing, but I was pulled along and sucked in and had a good > time. I thought she'd written herself into a corner w/ Anita, but > she seems to find new places to take her. What did you think? I enjoyed Narcissus in Chains. I don't think her last two Anita Blake books have been as good as the earlier ones, but they are still fun and addictive as hell. OTOH, I didn't like Kiss of Shadows. it was fun in an addictive sort of way, btu honstly, the plot seemed like a thin excuse to romp from one foreplay scene to the next (for a book with *that* much of a focus on sex, there was actually very little sex :) -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:39:37 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: John Snead Subject: Re: Commitment Hour by James ALan Gardner Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <200111100121.tuphqu.phk.37kbi0u@strange.mail.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Maire wrote: > Dear all, > I have just started reading this book- not seriously, just as my leave > in teh loo book. However, I have been very quickly grabbed (unusual > for me) and also, suprised- its got a premise of being set in > roundabout 25 C, most of humanity has deserted earth adn gone off > with aliens (apparently?) and the remaining people somehow have a > mechanism where they chenge from man to woman until the age of ..well, > I think I remember reading it is 20, but that doesnt seem right, > because the protag talks of his years as a man and years as a woman- I > dont know, I got the impression that they had more years behind them > in each sex. ANyway, I think its 20- when they have their "Commitment > HOur" and must choose which sex to remain as. Except for a small > portion of the population who refuse to give up either part of > themselves, and become "Neuts"- must abhored, aparently. Anyway, my > question is this- has anyone here read it? The fact that its even on > my bookshelf when I hae never heard of hte author elads me to suspect > that I got the title from a recomendaion- at this list? Now... excuse > me for being horrible sexist but..given its a male author.. Im sorry! > Im sorry! does it have anything thought provoking to say about gender > etc? ie, is it "gender-bendering" Is this book good? is what I am > trying to say I guess what sort of book is it? It's OK, but IMHO, it's his least good book, biut still interesting. His other novels are Expendible, Vigilant, Hunter, and something new that I haven't read yet. I really enjoy his work, especially Hunted and Vigilant. He's quite good -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 06:31:08 -0800 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: NARCISSUS IN CHAINS Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit review from our web site Narcissus in Chains by Laurell K. Hamilton Obsidian Butterfly was something of a departure for Hamilton, because she took Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, out of St. Louis, and she only was in contact with one regular "cast member," Edward. Anita made some major decisions about her relationship with the city's vampire master, Jean-Claude, and its major werewolf, Richard (both her lovers at different and sometimes overlapping times), in Blue Moon. While her trip to New Mexico to see Edward was anything but peaceful, it did allow her some rest and separation from the two men. Narcissus in Chains opens several months later, while Anita has been working on her meta-physical sense of self and separation. Now she is about to learn the consequences of many of her actions, intentional or otherwise. The sex majik is at an all time high for this series, for those who were wondering. Berkley, $22.95. more on what we thought of earlier books at http://www.mystgalaxy.com/horror_h.html We had a great time when Laurell was at the store on tour for NARCISSUS, and I heard she had a very successful and fun time at her first Bouchercon (World Mystery Convention) along with Charlaine Harris (DEAD UNTIL DARK), Lee Killough, Dean James and others who managed to gather for an 8:30 AM panel on vampire detectives. So, what's the problem with the were swans? Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:06:48 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: New Anita Blake book Comments: To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" In-Reply-To: <51.13f60bc8.291dcf33@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Christine Ethier wrote: > Just wondering if anyone besides me has read the new Anita Blake book, > Naricuss in Chains. I know people on this list don't usually get hardcovers, > but hopefully someone else still had a gift money. > > I'm not going to give any spoilers or anything. However, Hamilton does not > know anything about swans. > > Chris > I've read it. Tell me what she has wrong. I did notice another were-leader played into the gender expectations of the animal changed into. Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:10:11 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Pat Subject: Re: NARCISSUS IN CHAINS Comments: To: Maryelizabeth Hart Comments: cc: feministsf@UIC.EDU In-Reply-To: <3BED3A2C.46333A36@mystgalaxy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Maryelizabeth Hart wrote: > > Narcissus in Chains by Laurell K. Hamilton > Obsidian Butterfly was something of a > departure for Hamilton, because she took Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, > out of St. Louis, and she only was in contact with one regular "cast > member," Edward. Anita made some major decisions about her relationship > with the city's vampire master, Jean-Claude, and its major werewolf, > Richard (both her lovers at different and sometimes overlapping times), > in Blue Moon. While her trip to New Mexico to see Edward was anything > but peaceful, it did allow her some rest and separation from the two > men. Narcissus in Chains opens several months later, while Anita has > been working on her meta-physical sense of self and separation. Now she > is about to learn the consequences of many of her actions, intentional > or otherwise. The sex majik is at an all time high for this series, for > those who were wondering. Berkley, $22.95. And apparently she knows as much about New Mexico as she does about swans. :( > Patricia (Pat) Mathews mathews@unm.edu -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:14:08 +1100 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Maire Subject: I Who Have Never Known Men, and Misconceiver Comments: To: fantastic & utopian literature For discussion of feminist SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I recently read 2 brilliant, powerful books I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman, and The Misconceiver by Lucy Feriss I am hoping that someone here might have read or be familiar with either of these titles? I would dearly like to discuss them.. especially, I think I Who have Never Known Men... wow. Hard SF- Nov discussion "Darwin's Radio" by Greg Bear -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:54:39 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Fw: [WorkForWriters] SUBMISSIONS SOUGHT: lesbian artists book Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hello: > > Your contributions are requested for the following book. > > ******************* > > LESBIAN ARTISTS SPEAK > > My name is Eric Maisel and I'm the author of several books on the creative > life, including FEARLESS CREATING, DEEP WRITING, A LIFE IN THE ARTS, and > the forthcoming WRITE MIND and VAN GOGH'S BLUES. I'm currently soliciting > autobiographical pieces for a book tentatively titled LESBIAN ARTISTS > SPEAK. While the book has no publisher at this time, I've sold fourteen > nonfiction books in the last dozen years and expect that I'll find a > publisher for this one. > > The book's agenda is the following one: to let lesbian artists speak in > their own voice. There are many reasons why I'm interested in having the > stories of lesbian artists be better known. The most important one is that > I have a lesbian daughter in the arts and the social sciences. I've also > had the experience of receiving autobiographical pieces from the college > students I teach and have found them to be eloquent and interesting. I > think a compilation of autobiographical pieces from lesbian artists would > make for compelling reading and would increase our understanding of who > creates. > > I envision the book as made up of 50 - 75 pieces, each about 1500 words in > length, with an accompanying picture or two for each piece. I will provide > no guidelines as to what subjects should write about. Each subject will > interpret "autobiographical piece" in the way that she likes. Of course, > pieces may be edited, in concert with the author of each piece, for length, > grammar, flow, etc. > > Payment will be in copies of the published book. Each contributor whose > piece appears in the published book will receive 5 copies of the book > (about a $100 value, I would imagine). Each contributor will also have the > opportunity to provide contact information, if she so chooses. > > I would hope to include pieces from lesbian writers, visual artists, > musicians, dancers, actors, filmmakers, etc. I do not need subjects to be > celebrities or well-known and I am inclined to stretch "artist" to include > creators in other fields, including, for instance, the social sciences, the > hard sciences and technology. > > Please let me know if you're interested in being a part of this project. I > would like to receive the first of these autobiographical pieces by the new > year for inclusion in the book proposal I plan to compile to sell this > project to a publisher. If you have any questions, please feel free to > contact me at amaisel@sirius.com. Also, if you know of anyone who might be > interested in writing a piece for this project, please pass this e-mail > along to her. > > Thank you. > > Eric Maisel > amaisel@sirius.com > http://ericmaisel.com > > ______________________ > Eric Maisel, Ph.D. > http://www.ericmaisel.com > http://www.sleepthinking.com > amaisel@sirius.com > fax (925) 689-0210 > message (925) 689-0210 > > -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:13:54 -0800 Reply-To: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" Sender: "For discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature" From: Jo Ann Rangel Subject: Fw: AVIVA November Press Release Comments: To: feministsf@uic.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > AVIVA > Women's World-Wide Web > FREE Monthly Webzine > >http://www.aviva.org<; > > Press Release: November 2001 > >http://www.aviva.org/press.htm<; > > > * ACTION ALERT: > Nigeria: Pregnant Woman Sentenced to Death by Stoning > > *INTERNATIONAL NEWS: > Revolutionary Women of Afghanistan: 'We Don't Accept Dominance by the Northern Alliance' > > * AFRICA NEWS: > Kenya: Anger at Americans as 'Superior Bomb Victims' > Mauritius: 'The Island of Diego Garcia, B52s, You and Me' > > * ASIA NEWS: > Afghanistan: Where are the Women in Negotiations? > China: Baby Survives Forced, Late, Abortion > > * AUSTRALASIA NEWS: > General: Sinking Island Pressed to Accept Refugees > Australia: *While Howard Wins Election on Asylum Issue > > * EUROPE NEWS: > Bulgaria: Cruel and Inhuman Treatment of Mentally Disabled Women > UK: UN Human Rights Committee Critical of UK Record > > * MIDDLE EAST NEWS: > General: Israel Brings Terror to the West Bank > Iran: International Petition for Arrested Film-Maker > > *NORTH AMERICA NEWS: > Canada: 'War Frenzy!' by Sunera Thabani > US: Domestic Violence Order * Restricts Right to Gun Ownership > > * LATIN AMERICA NEWS: > Mexico: Women Workers Stand up to Nike > Colombia: Paramilitaries Abduct 50 Villagers > > *PLUS: Listings of 1,000s of Women's: Groups/ Courses/ Resources/ Events. > > *PLUS: 'Artful Women' Gallery & Listings. > > *PLUS: Offer of Website Hosting for Women' > > COMPETITIVE ADVERTISING RATES ON REQUEST FOR WOMEN'S: > Courses/ Resources/ Events/ Services > -------------------------------------------------- This is the feministsf listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe feministsf Contact feministsf-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.