Subject: File: "FEMINISTSF LOG0206D" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:48:03 -0400 Reply-To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: earthyfemme Subject: Internet Sperm Bank for Lesbian Couples Comments: To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Taken from Spiegel.de Translation by Babelfish http://babelfish.altavista.com/urltrurl?tt=url&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel. de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fnetzkultur%2F0%2C1518%2C202630%2C00.html&lp=de_en&doit=done& urltext= I was reading this article and had a flashback of sorts to Atwood's The Handmaiden's Tale, and thought that this concept was a kind of antithesis. Vivian -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:31:07 -0700 Reply-To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: Todd Mason Subject: Extremity Comments: To: FEMINISTSF@UIC.EDU, horror@listserv.indiana.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/06/20/lizzy_borden/print.html This is a reasonably good article about the current media-darling for extreme ugliness...but little or no more extreme, really, than the likes of Peckinpah or the more splattery suspense and horror films, or some of the transgressive, if that's what they are, works of people ranging from, let's say, Patrick (formerly Pat) Califia or A.M. Homes, or the clumsy B. E. Ellis...or the clumsy Ed Lee, or brilliant work by the likes of Kathe Koja or Michael Blumlein, or H.G. Well's "The Cone," not brilliant, but still the nastiest story which sticks in my memory. I'm glad that the author mentions, not so approvingly (but not disapprovingly enough; even her television-reviewing colleague doesn't disapprove enough in his critique which has a link at this story's end), the FRONTLINE episode "American Porn" wherein the documentarists, having sought out Lizzy Borden's studio, make a great show of stalking out of it, rather than letting the viewer see what was disturbing or simply saying "We chose not to stay nor show any of the filming which so disturbed us." Instead, it was merely an advertisement for the films--So Raw Even the Pseudo-Evenhanded Documentarists Couldn't Stand It! Like SNUFF and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE (the '70s one), here's your new challenge to the sensibilities! (In fact, most of them seem to be "'70s," these Can You Take It movies, including such fare as LAST TANGO IN PARIS, STRAW DOGS, and SALO, though I guess classics of this category also rolled in a bit later, including THE MAN BEHIND THE SUN and BLOODSUCKING FREAKS. They're not much later, if at all, though perhaps the sad FACES OF DEATH things didn't pop up until the '80s.) Oh, well. I don't agree with every conclusion nor share every apprehension with the article's writer, but it's worth the thought and the look. Thanks to Jeff for drawing it to my attention. TM -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:51:38 -0700 Reply-To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: Lee Anne Phillips Subject: Re: Internet Sperm Bank for Lesbian Couples Comments: To: friendly discussion of feminist SF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:48 PM 6/26/02 -0400, earthyfemme wrote: >I was reading this article and had a flashback of sorts to Atwood's The >Handmaiden's Tale, and thought that this concept was a kind of antithesis. Funnily enough, the web site at http://www.mannotincluded.com/ is far more droll. The article as listed was not readable but the so-called "first lesbian sperm bank" is not, in fact, the first, although it may be so in the UK. The idea is old news, in California, at least. Pacific Reproductive Services, lesbian owned and operated, has been around for eighteen years. http://www.hellobaby.com/index.html Of course their web address is not nearly as cute. Here's an article about the presumed subject of the German article in English. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_2062000/2062212.stm We note with rolled eyes that the owner of this service "for lesbians" is male. Why doesn't this surprise me? Here's the reference in German: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzkultur/0,1518,202630,00.html Babelfish can translate it if you absolutely insist. -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:14:34 -0700 Reply-To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: Lee Anne Phillips Subject: Re: Extremity Comments: To: friendly discussion of feminist SF In-Reply-To: <3D1AA31B.7730B0D5@netzero.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:31 PM 6/26/02 -0700, Todd Mason wrote: >http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/06/20/lizzy_borden/print.html > >This is a reasonably good article about the current media-darling for >extreme ugliness...but little or no more extreme, really, than the likes Although I fail to see how this relates to Feminist SF other, perhaps, than that the women depicted in most porn movies exist only in (male) fantasy, the article lacks a feminist analysis of the reason women in almost all "action" movies, not just pornography, are depicted in situations of extreme danger. Ms. Borden makes explicit and obviously ugly what "respectable" movies coyly hint at, the rape, torture, and murder of women as excitement-builders for a primarily male audience. That same ugliness lurks at the heart of the Bond films, the Eastwood films, and countless others. So what's the point, that some woman has "gone too far?" "Spatter" and "Snuff" films are old news but it's still "interesting" and "newsworthy" when a woman does it? -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:31:17 -0700 Reply-To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: Todd Mason Subject: Re: Extremity: Phillips Comments: To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apparently. Or when she does it explicitly with no apology, no "cleaning it up." So she doesn't even have to be as popular as Marshall Mathers to draw critique, from such Guardians of the Good and True as the FRONTLINE crew. Of course, a lot of the same coyness plays into works meant for female audiences, as well...from supermarket-Gothics to bodice-busters to Lifetime movies, to the folk I initially cited, some of whose work is very relevant to feminist SF. Lee Anne Phillips wrote: > At 10:31 PM 6/26/02 -0700, Todd Mason wrote: > >http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/06/20/lizzy_borden/print.html > > > >This is a reasonably good article about the current media-darling for > >extreme ugliness...but little or no more extreme, really, than the likes > > Although I fail to see how this relates to Feminist SF other, perhaps, > than that the women depicted in most porn movies exist only in (male) > fantasy, the article lacks a feminist analysis of the reason women > in almost all "action" movies, not just pornography, are depicted in > situations of extreme danger. Ms. Borden makes explicit and obviously > ugly what "respectable" movies coyly hint at, the rape, torture, and > murder of women as excitement-builders for a primarily male audience. > > That same ugliness lurks at the heart of the Bond films, the Eastwood > films, and countless others. So what's the point, that some woman has > "gone too far?" "Spatter" and "Snuff" films are old news but it's still > "interesting" and "newsworthy" when a woman does it? -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:09:24 -0700 Reply-To: publicity@mystgalaxy.com Sender: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" From: Maryelizabeth Hart Organization: Mysterious Galaxy Subject: SF relevance of Salon article Comments: To: "friendly discussion of feminist SF, fantastic & utopian literature and other media" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit plus there's this line... > Many films feature witches, Satan, robots, aliens and assorted otherworldly creatures. > admittedly a stretch. Maryelizabeth -- ******************************************************************* Mysterious Galaxy Books Local Phone: 858.268.4747 7051 Clairemont Mesa Blvd, Suite 302 Fax: 858.268.4775 San Diego, CA 92111 Long Distance/Orders: 1.800.811.4747 http://www.mystgalaxy.com General Email: mgbooks@mystgalaxy.com ******************************************************************* -------------------------------------------------- This is the FEMINISTSF listserve, intended only for discussion of feminism and Speculative Fiction. To unsubscribe from this listserve, send a message to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UIC.EDU and in the body of the message say: unsubscribe FEMINISTSF Contact FEMINISTSF-request@UIC.EDU if there are problems.